Bank Charges
 

My wife has had notification this morning from The Halifax bank that a cheque drawn on her account has been sent back and a charge of £39.00 has been levied.
The account would have been overdrawn by 6p.
Our pension goes into this bank every Monday.
My wife has spoken to a representative of the bank about these charges and they refuse point blank to credit the account with the charges.
I believe this is robbery and a very easy way to make money for nothing?
I have been keeping up to speed with the current court cases that are going on at the moment about bank charges but it seems that these vultures are going to get away with it unless the government stand on their toes.
The lobby for banks in Westminster is very strong and I would like to know
(I doubt if I ever will) When the banks are going to be brought in line by the government?

Re: Bank Charges
 

I was under the impression that they can't do this and people have been winning in court, has this changed?

Re: Bank Charges
 

I would be down to local branch and get it wiped.

If its not a regular thing, ie this is you first OD for a while they usuall waver it.

Ask for the complaints procedure and make a nucence (SP) in the branch, I would.

Never take the first refusal they would have to tell me no at least 5 times before I would let it drop.

After all its for 6p.

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I remember watching an article about this on GMTV last week ....... may be of some use hopefully GMTV - Are you the victim of unfair bank charges? Get advice from Martin Lewis of MoneySavingExpert.com

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No.............until a hearing is given judgement by a High Court Judge there is no precident for the lower courts to proceed.
Bank have been settling out of court for fear of a judgement against them.

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Many learned and well advised bodies have said that the charges are against the law but the law seems to want to ignore.

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Roy you should of watch the money programme on bbc last month was all about bank charges and it calculated this 50 year old mans charges over the past 30 years and it was thousands and thousands a real lot of money and then he took the bank to court and got it all back.

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I have been following this subject for many months and know that even the OFT are investigating at the moment but it would seem the banks do not care.
They make millions a year from this scam and it seems that they expect it to continue?

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I agree, it is really annoying if that happens.:mad:

Most Halifax current accounts will allow you a free overdraft facility, which would prevent this from happening, but I think you have to request it, so it might be worth asking if your account has it.

I very rarely write cheques nowadays, as it is harder to keep track of your balance, as they can be drawn on your account anytime, up to three months after writing them.

As other people have said, go in and speak to someone, explain what happened, and there is a good chance they will cancel the fee.

Good luck.

Re: Bank Charges
 

As other people have said, go in and speak to someone, explain what happened, and there is a good chance they will cancel the fee.
Good luck.[/quote]

My wife has rung the bank this morning and they flatly refuse to give credit.
The person on the phone was quite rude saying it does not matter if it is 1p or £60 the charge is the same.

Re: Bank Charges
 

The people who answer the phones for the Halifax are basically call centre workers, and as such may not be authorised to waive the fee. I'd definitely go into your branch, you usually get a more sympathetic response.

Re: Bank Charges
 

Go to the bank and make a fuss in front of other customers, make the bank look bad. :)

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One other point.
If these charges are illegal, does anyone know of a mechanism or procedure
that would stop them taking the money from the account on the 28th June as notified?
I will go to the bank with my wife..........dont hold much hope though.

Re: Bank Charges
 

Most bank charges are clearly stated, especially when it comes to being overdrawn. The amount, though aggravating, is irrelevant. I don't know if the charges are illegal, if they are clearly stated, and you've agreed to them when you opened your account.

Does your wife have a free overdraft facility on the account? I think most Halifax current accounts allow you up to a hundred pounds.

Re: Bank Charges
 

Martin Lewis' site which was mentioned earlier is a brilliant place for financial advice -I use it a lot- the forums will give you an insight into what to do next.
PS just got £30 for switching fuel supplier (yet again!)

Re: Bank Charges
 

I will refer you to a former post
GMTV - Are you the victim of unfair bank charges? Get advice from Martin Lewis of MoneySavingExpert.com
We do not have an overdraft facility (Never needed one or requested one from the Halifax)
She joined the Halifax many years ago and they wer'nt charging £39.00 then.
They moved the goalpost not us

Re: Bank Charges
 

I'm not having a go. I too have been with the Halifax for years, before it was a bank, now in tandem with the Bank of Scotland, and only a Building Society.

The overdraft facility is free, and will prevent this from happening in the future.

Re: Bank Charges
 

I had that the other week not with the Halifax though and i rang them up and said what are you playing at cos my money went in on the same day the cheque had gone through its just that the money went in after the cheque was presented - the bank credited me the charges.

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Banks do not really want private accounts, they make nothing on them, they are like insurance companies who would not insure private cars if the law did not requre them to do so, they only want to insure property etc.
You are in a catch 22 situation Royboy39, not a big enough fish to rock the banks boat, or attract another bank. The Halifax i'm afraid has gone downhill since merging with the banks. I am with the Yorkshire and had the same problem through an oversight on my part, I rang the Bank who then rang the branch and they rectified the matter the same day, so they are not all as bad as those you are unfortunately dealing with, anyway keep at them you can only gain by making noises.

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I am currently going through court with my bank to reclaim my charges, I have went through the correct procedure for doing it all - started way back in april..and I am finally at the courts with it...just waiting on a date for my hearing....and I know folk will say you should manage your account better but I dont have a problem with being charged - its the amount they charge...
and although the martin lewis site is ok - I have used this one..which gives you all court documents too and also what to put on them...really good forum for anyone wanting to know more about it all...
Penalty Charges Forum - Powered by vBulletin

Re: Bank Charges
 

Garinda is quite right the overdraft facility is free and costs very little if you have to use it.

Is this the first time your wife has ever gone overdrawn? If it is you should go into your Halifax branch and ask for the fee to be waived on this occasion - the branch manager has the authority to waive the fee if it is the first time you have incurred one.

On the all subject of bank charges, the majority of current account customers never incur any charges asthey manage their accounts within the terms of the account and never go overdrawn. As a result of the few who do incur penalties trying to get their charges back, it is highly likely free current accounts will go and everyone will be charged a monthly fee for having a current account. Why should the majority be penalised because of the minority.

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What a load of rubbish.........The Halifax branch manager has no control over existing personal accounts......if you go into a branch you are directed to use the direct line to a call center.......which you can do from your own home.
Can I assume from your comments that you have never made a mistake on your account and that you are in favour of the bank charging ridiculous and excessive charges for work that is done by a machine?

Our case has been resolved by going through the complaints procedure where common sense prevailed.

Re: Bank Charges
 

I think you will probably find the bank manager has got control or at least enough power to waver the charge.

I have been in Accrington branch of Halifax many time to enquire about my account, overdraft ect and not once have I been made to ring, there is usually someone at the special counter near the door, cant harm to speak to them.

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What was the Outcome.

Re: Bank Charges
 

Did that yesterday in Blackburn.
I think they treat personal accounts as a non entity, business accounts are different.
The young lady said no-one at the branch could deal with the account and I said we were directed to use the telephone.
The call center operator did not want to know and refused to credit the account, however when we got home a call was made to the complaints department and they were prepared to listen and deal with the problem on it's merits . The charge was cancelled

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Glad you got it sorted Royboy39, as I said before they are not interested in personal accounts, they only profit from business accounts, you have to be prepared to make a lot of noise as you must have done. This website has opened a lot of doors for many people, including me, you never know who is reading these threads;)

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We've done the whole bash banks thing previously.

I work for one, they are a business, they make money for their shareholders, the vast majority of profit comes from business/investment/credit side of the business. To run a current account costs money. Have you ever stopped to work out how much is invested in ATM networks? the bank I work for has > 2000 machines each costing significantly over £100K, then you have software costs and supply/maintainence on top. how much do you pay to use your own banks machines, nowt, nadda. likewise you walk into a branch(Costs money to buy and run) speak to staff(Wages) who access systems(Mega Millions of pounds worth) who deal automagically with billions of payments each week, making sure your DD's, STO and cheques etc all get paid. They look after your cash (from £1 to £XXXXXXXX's) in a secure manner that you can't lose out as they are managed by FSA regulations. what does this cost you? £NOWT.

When you opened an account you were all given a full T&Cs which outlined all charges etc but as is usual nobody can be bothered to read it so you just sign that you accept it without so much as a cursory glance. Then when you get charged for going outside what you agreed to you complain.

IS £40 outrageous, possibly, what the whole claim your bank charges things is about is NOT the behaviour of charging you, only what that charge should be. The steer is that they should charge you something like what the actual cost to the bank is (commonly quoted at £15) yet this does not take into account anything of teh infrastructure costs I outlined above.

Re: Bank Charges
 

I know how much it cost to run a business, I have run three.
If I charged any of my customers a "Fee" for making a mistake the business would not last very long.
Why should banks, and now the utility companies get away with it?

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Willow I am sorry but your nickname is well thought out,and proven

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I have had over 50 years experience dealing with banks from the sharp end
and yes I probably do.

Re: Bank Charges
 

I disagree with you, the branch manager of any Hailfax can decide whether to waive any fees. You should have been very insstent in the Blackburn branch (but also polite - it is not the fault of the person you are speaking too in the branch).

As regards my attitude to bank charges - yes I have made mistakes in the past, but accept that I have to pay for them. As Entwisi says there are lots of costs involved with servicing free current accounts, and I strongly object to the fact that because of a minority of people who can't manage their money properly the majority are probably going to be peanalised. Why should I (and others who do not allow their accounts to go overdrawn - beyond any agreed overdfarft facility) pay for the actions of a few.
As regards not being informed of changes to the conditions of your Halifax current account - whenever the conditions are revised, there is a leaflet enclosed with your statement of account.

Re: Bank Charges
 

I think your post was very good - but it would appear that Roy knows more about banking than you do.

Re: Bank Charges
 

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In answer to both Claytonender and Willow:
I have had enough experience not to go in anywhere with guns blazing.
I am quite articulate and can express my feelings without ranting and raving.
I would like to know when either of you have been into a Halifax branch to discuss your Personal account and spoke to the manager about it, thats if you are not asking for an overdraft or discussing investments which would probably gain his/her attention?

Re: Bank Charges
 

I don't have a Halifax account - but if I did have I would take advantage of the free overdraft facility. ;)

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Luckily I dont need an overdraft I would rather use my own money to top up the account (Which I've done) Why keep the fat cats happy?

Re: Bank Charges
 

Re: Bank Charges
 

Good advice probably to the people who want it. In my case I will be moving to Spain shortly so I will not have the same problem.

Re: Bank Charges
 

Then you should have advised your wife to take advantage of the free overdraft facility...and then no charges would have been levied against her account in the first place.:)

Lots of people in this thread have been sympathetic, and given useful advice as well, what you chose to do with it is up to you, but I just hope there isn't another thread moaning about it in the future, if you don't.:D

As for banking compared to other businesses, most companies receive a discount if prompt payement is forthcoming, and are charged on a gradually increasing scale if it isn't. Not rocket science, just simple economics, and not just confined to banking.

Re: Bank Charges
 

I take your first point.
I do take advice when i'ts offered in good faith.
Do I have to ask your permission to post a thread on any subject?
As for your last comment - nothing to do with the thread at all

Re: Bank Charges
 

You raised the subject by saying this, and I quote,

'I know how much it cost to run a business, I have run three.
If I charged any of my customers a "Fee" for making a mistake the business would not last very long.
Why should banks, and now the utility companies get away with it?'

Banks are business, there to make a profit, not state run monopolies, and if you are clever you don't have to add to their profits, in this case by taking advantage of their free overdraft facility.:)

Re: Bank Charges
 

I think some of the perception around this is that the banks are effectively charging you for making a 'mistake'. IMHO you are as a responsible adult in charge of your own finances. You choose to use the services of a bank and accept that if you transgress certain parameters then you will be charged. The bank is not doing anything that it hasn't already told you it will. You just choose to ignore the fact and being perfectly honest it almost sounds like you don't want to take responsibility for your actions. i.e. your wife allowed herself to write a cheque knowing that there might be a chance that it would be presented to your bank before the funds were available. That was a gamble she took and lost. Would you complain to a bookie that you accidentally wrote the wrong horses name down?


As an owner of 3 companies how would you feel if you weren't allowed to make a profit on something that costs you money to provide? You wouldn't be in business for long.

Re: Bank Charges
 

[quote=entwisi;440302]I think some of the perception around this is that the banks are effectively charging you for making a 'mistake'. IMHO you are as a responsible adult in charge of your own finances. You choose to use the services of a bank and accept that if you transgress certain parameters then you will be charged. The bank is not doing anything that it hasn't already told you it will. You just choose to ignore the fact and being perfectly honest it almost sounds like you don't want to take responsibility for your actions. i.e. your wife allowed herself to write a cheque knowing that there might be a chance that it would be presented to your bank before the funds were available. That was a gamble she took and lost. Would you complain to a bookie that you accidentally wrote the wrong horses name down?



I think you have misread this was a mistake not a gamble.
You would have to take the banks point of view because you work for them that is why your response sounds a bit "off pat"
If your comment is to be taken seriously why are bank charges under investigation with the OFT and why have so many people been able to reclaim bank charges and are continuing to reclaim?

Re: Bank Charges
 

I agree. The initial complaint didn't seem to be about the amount charged, just that there was a charge at all.

As you said earlier all charges, and changes in those charges, are sent out to all the bank's customers.

It isn't about moving the goal posts, more about paying attention, and observing prudence, and taking advantage of services that this particular bank offers, which if they had, would have resulted in no charges at all being levied...and I'm not a banker.:D

Re: Bank Charges
 

Also just to add the halifax has a very good internet banking site.

This can help keeping track of your account to make sure you dont fall into the overdrawn trap and get charged.

Saved me on a few occasions.:)

Re: Bank Charges
 

What you seem unable to understand, is that it was your wife who made the mistake and not the bank. she wrote out a cheque when she had insufficient funds in her account to cover the transaction. Techiqually writing cheques when you are aware that there are not sufficient funds to clear this cheque is fraud.

You also seem quite incapable of accepting advice about a free overdraft facility - which makes good sense, because as Willow says there are some occasions when salary credits etc are late being credited into an account. Having a free overdraft facility means that you will not incur any bank charges for debits which bounce because of insufficient funds.

It also makes sense to have internet banking, then you can check your bank balance daily. I only ever keep a balance of about £15.00 in my Halifax current account, but because I have a free overdraft facility I know that if I pay using my debit card or cheque there will always be funds to clear the payment. Then I go online and transfer money from my websaver account (which pays 5.05% interest - before tax) into my cheque account to cover the money I have spent. That way I never get any bank charges and get a reasonable rate of interest on my money.

For someone whom purports to have run three businesses you do not appear to be aufait with how to run an account to your advantage rather than to the banks.

Re: Bank Charges
 

Now you are getting carried away......the original post was that my wife had been charged £39.00 for the sake of 6p, cant see that being fraud?
This is looked upon my many more learn-ed than me or you as a fine and not a fee.
I dont purport to have run 3 businesses, I have, luckily now retired I dont have to put up with bank rights or wrongs.
This is not about whether or not to take advice, I have taken that on board and will use that advice if it suits me. At the moment IT DOES NOT.

Re: Bank Charges
 

I am sorry to labour a point but writing cheques when you know there are insufficient funds is fraud. (Not the bank's rulings it is the law of the land - even if there is only £0.06 too little in the account)

As for only taking the advice that suits you -well you are obviuosly very pigheaded - the only reason I can see that you started this post was for everyone to agree with you, you obviuosly can't cope with being corrected.

Re: Bank Charges
 

I'm sorry you have laboured the point.
How on earth can a miscalculation of 6p be seen in any way shape or form as fraud.
Fraud is a deliberate attempt to defraud in the eyes of the law.
What is against the law is anyone who administers a fine disguised as a fee when not authorised to do so.

Re: Bank Charges
 

In post 28 of this thread, you said, and I quote,
'I know how much it cost to run a business, I have run three.'
Make your mind up.

Re: Bank Charges
 

But your wife did make a miscalculation and ignorance is not a defence, she did write a cheque when she had insufficient funds for it to clear.

As the fees are clearly stated and circulated, as a leaflet enclosed with your wife's statements, whenever they change. How can it be a fine?

When you ran a business did you not make your customer's pay to the terms which you clearly set out to them. Halifax mailing out there revised terms of busines is no different.

Did the batteries run out in her calculator or did she run out of fingers in her calculations and have to use her toes.

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It would not be a bad idea if you read the full sentence before jumping in with both feet.

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I did, what you said is there for all to see.:confused:

Hope you've got your bank details sorted out, for when they pay your pension into your bank account in Spain.:D

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I have not mentioned my bank account and that does not matter to you or anyone else.

Re: Bank Charges
 

This is re-posted just for you Garinda

Re: Bank Charges
 

That is what he said RindyRoo. It was just the way he wrote it.

Have you been reading "Eats, Shoots and leaves" ? :D

A panda walks into a café. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes towards the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

So punctuation really does matter, even if it is only occasionally a matter of life and death.

Re: Bank Charges
 

Thank you.

It's as clear as mud now.

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You might find banking in Spain is a little costlier than it is here. Are you going to complain when they levy their perfectly legal charges?

6p or £6,000 writing a cheque when you have insufficient funds to cover the cheque is illegal. Writing a cheque when you have insufficient funds to cover it but do have an agreed overdraft limit is perfectly fine.

:rolleyes: I pity your poor bank manager, I really do.

The advice you choose to ignore would actually be of benefit to you. You claim to have taken it on board but still intend to ignore it. I cannot for the life of me see any sense in that.

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You were, past tense, a 'banker' Willow, so your opinion, just as Entwisi's is, is biased.;) :D

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If you have had experience of Spanish banks please enlighten us.
I have'nt got a bank manager anymore I deal with a call center.
I will look at the overdraft facilty and it's benefits or otherwise. OK

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It seems to me that you have two choices. 1) Make sure you have enough money in your account before you write checks. B) Get overdraft protection.

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Thanks for that........God bless America

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It looks to me that what Royboy39's post is saying is that he does not purport to have run 3 buisnesses,he actually has.He's saying it's a fact that he's run 3 businesses,not just something he professes to have done.:)

Re: Bank Charges
 

I think Roy should pay a fee, to all the kind people who have offered advice for free in this thread.:D

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Re: Bank Charges
 

I've posted this before in the dim and distant past, but for those who haven't seen it:

The Importance of Correct Punctuation
-unknown

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear John:

I want a man who knows what love is all about. You are generous, kind, thoughtful. People who are not like you admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me for other men. I yearn for you. I have no feelings whatsoever when we're apart. I can be forever happy--will you let me be yours?

Gloria



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear John:

I want a man who knows what love is. All about you are generous, kind, thoughtful people, who are not like you. Admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me. For other men, I yearn. For you, I have no feelings whatsoever. When we're apart, I can be forever happy. Will you let me be?

Yours,

Gloria

Re: Bank Charges
 

So do I. But he just seems to be very ungrateful for our advice.

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He could be in for a whale of a time in Spain then; everything takes 3 times as long ,my mum waited over a year for a cheque book !

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Not sure about that but I do know that it's usually painstakingly slow to do anything !

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Can anyone lend me a tenner. I promise to pay you back-------sometime.
Willow they charge you for even thinking about it!

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He's going to have fun there then. :D

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[quote=Royboy39;440366]
I dont purport to have run 3 businesses, I have, luckily now retired I dont have to put up with bank rights or wrongs.

You're right there Willow.A simple full stop after 'have' would have saved all the confusion:)
Should have been 'I don't purport to have run three businesses,I have.Luckily now retired I don't have to put up with bank rights or wrongs.'
Sorry Royboy,not trying to pull you to pieces here,it just confused us for a bit that's all.Just like eats shoots and leaves that someone mentioned earlier:D

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[quote=Lilly;440499]Have fun people.
One of the business I had was in Spain and by reason of your response to my question to Willow I now realise that you have not got a clue.
Punctuation or not pure guesswork will find you out in the end.
A cheque book in Spain is worthless (Cash is King).
Monies can be transferred within Spain for little or no cost.
If you are transferring money out of Spain that will cost the same as it does transferring money from the UK to any European country.
I do take on board what is said on this forum but if your are second guessing or making up a senario which makes no sense whatsoever,,,,
KEEP YOU FINGER THAT TAPS NONSENSE IN YOUR POCKET

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Roy, all you appear to want to do in your recent posts is express your own self opinionated views. You appear to regard your own views as being sacroscant and try to ridicule anyone who disagrees with them.

In this thread several people have tried to help you, but you did not want help. You only wanted a forum to air your views and those of anyone who agreed with you.

I stand by my posting that why should the majority of responsible holders of current accounts be expected to subsidise the irresponsible minority who expect to be able to overdraw their accounts with impunity.

If you have run 3 business, as you claim to have, you should appreciate that being responsible in your financial dealings is of paramount importance.

And no, I do not work for a bank, I am just one of the majority who will probably be penalised by the withdrawal of free current account banking by people who think like you do. People who are totally self centred and not prepared to accept that if you break the rules, you have to pay the penalty.

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Mrs Royboy won't be having this problem again then, will she?

(For some reason I wanted to write Mrs Warboys instead of Mrs Royboy, but then realised that she was the neighbour in One Foot in the Grave. I don't believe it! Silly me.)

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Yes this is how they make there money and i think there a rip off with there bank charge,s as well.

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[quote=Royboy39;440554]If you expect people to understand what you are saying it does help if you punctuate the sentences correctly. But again you will not accept advice.

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It feels like I'm being attacked by three pantomime characters.
Widow Twanky - Old lady from the shoe - Simple Simon. (Or Buttons)

I WILL TAKE THE ADVICE ON BOARD AND ACT ACCORDINGLY.

The arrogance and ignorance of Simple Simon (Or Buttons) will be noted.
I was thinking of naming Simple Simon as an ugly sister but that would offend them.

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Can you just clarify who you regards as the pantomime characters.

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It is my own self opinionated view that I only need two more to qualify

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Well as you seem to be talking in riddles, maybe it is you who should be in pantomime.

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Well he won't be Mother Goose, as she laid a golden egg, rather than bounce a cheque.;)

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Wey Hey.................Hello Simple Simon (or Buttons) I knew you would bite.
I only want one more to make up the cast.

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I got a red mark for that one.
I wonder where that came from?

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What's a red mark and what's it mean?

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Someone complained about the post.

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I hope you aren't suggesting it's from me Sherlock? It's someone who has given you bad karma by the way, not that the post was reported.

I presume it was given to you this morning, but if you'd have shown a little initiative you could have hovered your cursor over my name and would have seen that I hadn't been online since thirteen minutes past midnight early this morning.:D

Back to the drawing board as to who gave you bad karma.;)

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This is getting silly.

I've just given you some nice green karma, to make up for whoever gave you the negative karma.

Have a good day.:)

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Couldn't have been me because I've been out, although I was here before I went. :D

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Why would I think it was you? I know who it was

Before you jump in with both feet mind you don't fall on your head again

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Thank you kind Sir.

I worked hard for that one

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Out of interest you have said that you have run 3 businesses, what line of work were you involved in.

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Not in open forum..............I will PM you with details

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Do not let it put you off Royboy 39, I for one and I know if the members did not like your threads, they would not respond to them, keep up the good work and enjoy the forum.;)

Re: Bank Charges
 

How this thread slipped through the nominations process, for an Accy Web award, is beyond me.:dummy2:


:D

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In the good old days when people wrote cheques I would deduct the amount from my balance upon issuing a cheque. That way I always knew how much was available to be used and took no notice of what the actual balance was because I knew that sooner or later the cheque would be presented.

It worked for me.

Re: Bank Charges
 

Just for the record...that bank charge was refunded and classed as a gesture in good faith.
In the good old day's I had a five thousands pounds cushion.....my Mrs Meldrew did not because we thought it was not needed. Being in the same bank, the funds were there to transfer without question from my account in my name to that of my wife.

I will explain that to you Jim because I think you are a free thinking person who does not wish to score brownie points