At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

Well I for one can't see anything wrong with it except that this animal is still alive, he raped and murdered a child, his niece!

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How the hell could he do that - its disgusting! Sometimes i wish we still had the death penalty but even thats too good for him - hung drawn and quartered might be an idea.

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This creep deserved life.

Hope the cons inside find out and hopefully one day give him some prison justice.

Re: At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

The words Gelding and Broadmoor spring to mind

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I sincerely hope that life means life and not just a few years which are halved for good behaviour. How could he do that to his own niece? How could he do it to anyone? :(

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I'm sure when his fellow convicts find out what he did he will be in for a very rough time.....in fact he will probably wish himself dead.

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i'm with you all the way on this less,sod the do-gooders, why should the taxpayer have to fund this scum for the rest of his life?

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Well I suppose, if it could be proved that this type of man can be cured then perhaps it would be society's duty to do their best for him. I believe though according to the 'experts', once they start down this grimy road they just need to feed their strange behavior, so if once caught they are strung up they won't do it and it might just be a deterrent to some other strange person that may otherwise take the first step down that path?

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Glad he got life, but lethal injection would be better.

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It's just unimaginable.

I hope this poor excuse for a human being lives out his days very, very unhappily.

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I think he is going to wish he had a choice of a lethal injection......he is going to be subjected to all manner of things in his food and even if he is segregated(which is almost certain).......the other criminals will try to find a way to get at him.

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with any luck he will be out of isolation at some point then god help him if the cons get near him.

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If any of my brothers had done this to a child of mine, i would kill him with my own bare hands and sod the consequences.
Even a life sentence would be worth it.

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only cos lord longfords dead.:D

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This is one that even I wont try to defend. I'm can't say I'm disgusted by it because for that I would have to be shocked by it, but i'm not at all because these things unfortunatly happen. Its just disappointing that people do things on such extremes that words can't even be put together to explain why someone would do that to such a young child, and one of their own relation.

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Whilst somewhat nervous about posting here goes. Whilst I agree completely agree with the fact that this individual is the scum of the earth and comments that the life sentence should indeed mean life- I must comment that the case should not be seen as an argument for the re-introduction of the death penalty. No research has ever indicated that the death penalty acts as a deterrent and there are sufficient examples of miscarriages of justice to argue forcibly against the death penalty.
Of course this is only my opinion.

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I've just got a really good big book out of the library that has LOADS of good points about why the death penalty obviously proved no use. Its about all different types throughout history and around the world and its got loads of old drawings in and accounts from executioners and stuff.
Forgotten what its called as I dont have it to hand but its a good read!

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There are a couple of aspects which concern me about the sentence this creature received. Firstly, why did he only get 35 years? Why didn't he get locked up for the rest of his natural life? And if the law doesn't allow for that, why not? Secondly, Willow has raised a point that I've been wondering about - does a minimum of 35 years literally mean 35 years or will there be time knocked off the sentence for pleading guilty and for good behaviour?

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and if he gets out early will he get a cash hand out to compensate him for having to make his own way in life?

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Yes I'm inclined to agree on the subject of miscarriages of justice. People say with improved forensics it can't happen these days but I'm not really convinced. I mean look at the woman who was convicted of killing her babies and then it turned out the 'expert' opinion was flawed and they had both died of natural causes.
I really do think he should have been. Even if it's 35 years before he comes out will children be safe around him? For someone to do that to his own niece he can't be a normal human being.

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He's 21 now so that even if he serves the full sentence he is still going to be something of a danger.

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With any life tariff the case will be presented to the Home Secretary or possibly now the Minister of Justice for review regarding parole at around the 15 year mark. NO Home secretary will ever agree to that parole and he will certainly serve the full sentence.

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35yrs isn't what we percieve as a life sentence but after 35yrs of prison, I can imagine that either a person will get too accustomed to prison lifestyle and either reoffend and get put back in or commit suicide at the huge time change that they often cant adapt to. The sad thing is that after such long sentences some people will obviously feel remorseful and never want to offend again, some feel remorseful after the moment they commit and offence, and they suffer with the bare memory of the incident for the rest of their lives. Its upto trained people to decide when a person has served enough time, not upto the public who want revenge, not pure justice.

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Where does that pure justice leave the child and her family, who will also live with the consequences, in a much more negative way for the rest of their lives?

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I think you talk a good deal of sense blazey. Should you remember the nae of that book I wouldnt mind giving it a coat of eyes.

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I think the point is that justice must be blind not borne of an emotional response to the horror of the offence itself. Nor can or should those most adverseley affected by the offence be the ones who decide on sentence.

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While I agree that emotions cannot come into play when justice is being meted out......I think that the victims and families need to feel that justice has been done and seen to be done.

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Is someone spending their life in prison with men who have mainly commited crimes such as theft, robbery etc who know about such a perons horrendous crime not justice enough?

Rape is often an occurence in prisons as are attacks on such people and the prison staff are known to turn a blind eye and let them be punished 'the real way'.

I'd be quite satisfied by a 35yr sentence knowing that they were being treated that way. Its more of a shame when they get put into secure cells by themselves but then they have to live with their minds and the silence for 35yrs. Ian Huntley got boiling water and sugar thrown on him before he got the 'luxury' of living alone. How many people can say they'd like to live out a life sentence by themselves for the rest of their lives.
I hate to be too observant but Ian Huntley doesn't seem to smile much when you see pictures of him and he released statements himself which seemed to show some remorse, though to be fair yes he showed more concern at maxine carr getting off so lightly, though he may have more worrying reasons for that.

I think prison serves its purpose via either the people your with, or on the other hand completely without. It takes a long time to live peacefully in a prison and it isn't often a child offender that gets to be top dog in there either.

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Can't answer the first point Wynonie but on the second it is 35 years before they can even consider him for parole, hopefully in this case he'll be Mr Big's bitch for the rest of his natural.

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Yes, Blazey that is what I was saying....35 years has to be what it says......35 years.....not 25....not 30.
And if they are doing a review of the sentence after a set period of time and they think that this man is still a danger then he should be incarcerated for longer. No child should ever have to suffer at his hands again.

And Ian Huntley has precious little reason to smile...for he truly knows what he did to those children and he has to live with the consequences.
Actions and consequences go together.

Re: At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

25 years is still a long time though, I'm not even 25yrs old myself yet so I couldn't imagine spending more than what i've already lived in a prison!

And exactly what an argument is for letting peope out early margeret, you just said it yourself in the case of ian huntley, he has no reason to smile as he has to live with what he did, and even outside of prison he still will have to live with that, it wont go away. No length of time in prison is going to make that any better or worse, which was just my point that its not always necessary for someone to serve a long time.
Sometimes less is enough.

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I agree. David Milgard who served 23 years in Kingston Penitentiary for a murder he did not commit, would also agree.

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And unfortunatly there are quite alot more who are found to have served sentences for crimes they had never committed. Its quite a shame as I remember once reading that a man who had been in this situation actually committed suicide as he still had the reputation even though he had been eventually found innocent.

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A child killer is likely to have alot of nasty memories to look back on in prison though, nobody would let him go on his way without making sure he felt some pain.

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Excuse me? but what makes you say this? These days prison is supposed to be a place of rehabilitation. To assist the perpetrator to adjust so that they will be a worthwhile citizen when they have done their time.

What you are suggesting happens is surely cruel and illegal? Plus, why should we have to rely on the people society has condemned to jail to mete out the justice that if we had strength of purpose we would do ourselves? If the people in prison are having to punish people worse than themselves how does that help with their own rehabilitation?

Re: At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

It doesn't and the reality is that he will almost certainly be segregated the moment he steps into a prison. He will be a cat A prisoner and will be placed on a segregation wing- most frequently with other sex offenders.
That is not to say that he wont be targtted in prison by other offenders as he certainly will be. This is not simply borne of some form of moral code held by those serving sentences but also what Dr Guy Hall, clinical and forensic psychologist, a 'neutralisation'. That being the thought process human beings use to justify their own behaviour. In this sense- "I might have committed an offence but I'm not as bad as him" therefore a degree of retribution for your own actions, it is reasoned, would be achieved by 'punishing' the other person on behalf of society.
It might seem like misguided logic but guilt does funny things to people.

Other neutralistaions frequently used by offenders-
Denial Of Victim- "It wasnt that bad", "They are insured" etc.
Denial of Injury- "I only hit him once"
Denial of responsibility- "It wasnt me it was the drugs/drink"

There are many more but I wont bore you further- they are basiaclly what we as human beings use to justify our actiosn as the vast majority of us actually know the difference between right and wrong.

Re: At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

Awwww! you're just teasing, I bet you do!:D

Re: At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

I desperately want to try and avoid another thread going off on a tangent and apologise to everyone before hand BUT I simply have to ask what the problem is Less?
I dont think I am misinterpreting your response this time or misjudging the tone- you really are quite antagonistic yet claim that others are stirring things up- Why such animosity?

Re: At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

thats just less, I suppose this is where being a "older" member helps...take most things he says with his tongue firmly in his cheek...see less thats me being polite to you :D I could have stuck your tongue somewhere else :rolleyes: NOW OFF TO YOUR CALM ROOM NAUGHTY BOY

Re: At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

It may same strange to you but it is called humour, I actually thought the whole of that post I quoted that little snippet from, followed on very well from what I had said, however I should have realised that you would react in the manner that you did, because your funny bone was removed at birth. (patronising smilie coming up, just like in the post I've offended you with). :D

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Thats where I am falling down- I always something had to be funny to be humorous. Stick to the day job Less you aint funny.

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You are a newbie, like all people that enter somewhere new you should wipe your feet mind your P's & Q's and get used to what the other folk are like before you think you can take your shoes off and put you're feet under the table.

You and others that have recently joined seem to be on some sort of mission to seemingly correct the 'twisted' minds of the accyweb crowd. Well we have lasted for quite some time without your assistance we have welcomed many diverse people with equally diverse views onto the site and will continue to do so, long after you have given up trying to cure us.

In future please refrain from being rude and thinking that the members need you to educate them, we don't.

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sorry to put a negative on the 35 years sentence,but when anyone is sentenced to a prison term,this being over 20 years they get 1/3 rd knocked off automatically, so take about 11 years off,that makes 24 years,then more off for good behaviour and that makes about 18/20 years minus the time he spent on remand.so he will be eligable for parole in about 19 years,then it is up to the home sec to decide to release him or keep him inside,so he could do the full 35 but i doubt it with all the do gooders, remember ronnie biggs got 25 and he is still in prison,also the kray twins,served more than there sentence. i hope he gets the hot water and sugar treatment and the glass in his porridge and sugar,believe me there are ways and means,and i will give him 6 months b4 he tops himself.

Re: At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

I'll stop tormenting them when they stop trying to take over the Asylum.:p

Better than the newbies, it has already learned not to bite the hand that feeds it, but the scars it's claws leave will take longer to heal than anything certain newbies could ever do.

END OF THREAD WANDER!

:clown:

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Research may not show the death penalty as a deterrent but it does save the tax payer some money.

Re: At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

is,nt bringing back hanging stretching it a bit of cant we just give them a suspended sentence LOL

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take them free fall parachuting without the parachute

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:( never mind

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Theres plenty of things that waste tax payers money, its quite animalistic to complain about a small percentage of people wasting tax payers money.

I got told that its less than 5% of prisoners that are murderers,rapists etc who would actually get death penalty. Besides death penalty is almost a nazi ideology; just get rid of people we dont like in society...

Not really my thing and many people wouldn't support it, I'm surprised it ever existed. Obviously the more religious past of england didnt mind killing people. Maybe we dont have it now because religion isnt as strongly believed and science, particularly psychology, has shown us that perhaps these people have some sort of problem, be it a mental defect, genetic or whatever, and they can be 'fixed'

Anyone know the exact reason that the death penalty got stopped in this country?

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they keep telling us they can fix these people then they get out and reafend

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Animalistic, nazi ideology, I'm neither of these, for the record I'm not a fascist either.

I agree there are lots of other wasters of tax payers money and I'd be against them too, only this thread isn't about them.

The scumbag who raped and strangled his niece in my opinion does not deserve to live his life in jail at the expense of the tax payer.

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I prefer to keep them alive as no matter what face they appear to have, the memory of something like that would be good enough torture.
Besides, execution costs money aswell, though maybe people could pay to see them :confused:. Killing them just gives them an easy way out unless of course you believe in heaven and hell, but i wont go into religious beliefs on that...

For the record, I didnt call you personally either, I just said that its very much along the lines of nazi ideology, just kill what you dont like. I also never suggested you were a fascist lol.

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By the way Rosebud:

The book is called - Hamlyn History of Punishment and torture - a journey through the dark side of justice by Karen Farrington.

Its got 2 good reasons at the back for why we shouldnt have the death penalty. I might type them out later once I've got ready, as I have to go out now. Its a good knowledgable, and well researched book if you get hold of it. Its a library book so you can always reserve it at the library once i've took it back.

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I think people who do these sort of things have neither morals or a conscience enough to let the memory bother them. If they had they wouldn't have done it in the first place.

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i think that is very debateable blazey, various goverments have refused referendums on that very subject.

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Same here Margaret.How must the mother be feeling now her brother's done that? The man's obviously a maniac,I can't imagine the state of mind of a man who could do that to any child,especially his sister's little girl.He should not be let out early but I won't hold my breath.

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First of all I thought that this man had received a minimum sentence of 35 years with no maximum stated.

And Rosebud, yes people do cite differing things to explain away their behaviour. This man said he was too drunk to know what he was doing.
Forgive me if I am wrong but I thought that if he were so drunk he would not have been physically capable of raping this baby.
Personally I think he was just using drink as an excuse. Denial isn't only a river in Egypt.

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I agree Margaret.Most normal blokes have done stupid things whilst drunk,that they wouldn't have done if they hadn't been drunk but raping a baby isn't on the rational person's to do list after having a few bevvies.The thought just wouldn't enter their heads.It's clear that this man's got a screw loose and was probably a ticking time bomb waiting to go off.Being drunk is absolutely no excuse for what he did.He'll be saying the voices told him to do it next.:mad:

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He has already had charges dropped for raping a 12yr old four years ago. Apparently she consented !!!

BBC NEWS | England | West Yorkshire | Girl killer's earlier rape charge

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I'm not blaming anyone, but if it was known that this scum had earlier had sex with a twelve year old, even though for whatever reason it didn't go to court, there was no way on God's earth that I would have allowed him any access to a child in my care.

You look at the child's smiling photograph, and you just pray that she had some joy in her short life, before this monster got to her.

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Sometimes people aren't even aware of their own families past nature. Sometimes you just don't know things until it is too late. The mother was the one who found her little girl if i remember rightly from when this was first in the news. Its terrible that things like that happen, especially within families. It must be hard to get your head around your brother doing that to your little girl.

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1. You are completely right- The offender in this case is using the excuse- ie "I was drunk" as a means of denying responsibility- "It wasnt me it was the drink" well of course it was him, it was his choice. Challenging this neutralisation is the only way to ensure he confronts the reality of his actions.


2. The point was made earlier that the death penalty saves the taxpayer money- in reality it doesnt due to the extremely high cost of appeal after appeal. It might also be important to quantify what we mean by cost- There certainly are financial considerations but what about the moral cost to our society.

3. Blazey is right in her assessmnet that the majority of the public (in every poll undertaken to date but I recognise none of these are on the scale of a national referendum) do not want to see a return to capital punishment.

and finally

4. Less- I would not dream of trying to educate you as this is far beyond my ability. Dont teach Grandma to suck eggs etc.

Re: At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

Thanks I will certainly take a look.

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On the latest report that I read, a psychiatric asessment shows this man to have psychopathic tendencies, and it was said that he will never be free of the risk of re-offending.

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I cant let that one pass without comment.
I think there should be an established chain of command for the Asylum.
I nominate the Oscar Wilde for colonel.
I nominate the Tormentor for second in command.
There are three places to fill. Major, Lieutenant and 2nd Lt.
Go for it newbies - Who do you nominate?

Re: At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

When is a newbie not a newbie... Only I have been here longer than all of them.. there isnt a single regular poster on here who has been registered longer than me.. Only Roy and WINGY and that was while setting up Accyweb ... they can't even be considered regulars anymore..

So your all newbies so you can all toe the line.. you as well newbie less....

All things being relative that is :)
















I win I win... Do I get a big hat now ? :)

Re: At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

,

Oh, tee hee, yet again YOU raise the subject of relative, [QUOTE All things being relative that is ][/quote]

I don't know if you've noticed but it's very rare I mention it in comparison to the number of times you bring it up!

Whatever is your problem? I know Roy used to like you, (though I don't know why), but because you seemed to be his friend I would put up with you, that does not mean I have to put up with your strange point of view so far as I am concerned.

P.S. If you don't like what I say, have a word with BBK and perhaps he'll solve your problem for you!

I look forward to you generating a ban for me because unlike him you ain't a moderator.

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Check it out less.. it was a bit of fun .... jeeze your like vinegar lately...

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You have a short memory, and a big ego, you hurt me a year ago and took the P*ss, so much that I left the forum, now you claim to be something supreme, you where there when Roy started the forum along with a few others, but I can't help being his father, (though unless he asks me to, I will try to avoid mentioning it, because some people seem 'cruel' ).

I was asked by someone, (I daren't mention his name because he's a relative), because he knew I could stir things up to put some bite into threads, way back near to the beginning and I have done it ever since, it isn't easy but until he relieves me of that duty I will continue to do it, why? because I love him as a Son and I love Accyweb as something he and his friends have developed, so either stop trying to get one up on me or help me keep the strangers from ruining the site.

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Its funny but I was about say that he is very very bitter in alot of his posts towards people, and he's even sarcastic to the people he is meant to be friends with.

So much resentment for one person.

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Less isn't bitter....he just drinks it.:D

In time, you may understand a little of his humour.;)

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ya took the words right out of my mouth.;)

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Your kidding... me? you should have said at the time cus I dont recall..



no i dont.. it was a joke.. calling you a newbie can only be a joke.. it cant really be anything else can it... with the best will in the world it would be difficult to take it any other way ..there isnt even any malice in there...


take a deep breath less... IT WAS A JOKE.. I called you a newbie... for crying out loud.. look at what you call everyone.. and you cant take an off the cuff remark like that?

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Perhaps the fact he's been humpin(I mean like feeding) the neighbours cat all month has left him a bit touchy?

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Blazey you ahve no idea what your talking about..

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You're perhaps right kipax, but I have spent so long it seems lately with strange newbies trying their best to prove they are better than us that I obviously have lost the plot, why? because I'm sick and tired of these children ruining the site, (can you understand that?).:mad:

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Less just lets get one thing clear eh.. You obviously dont like me and to be perfectly honest I have no idea why not.. But I dont really care all that much either..

My question is.. Are you under the impression that I dont like you for some reason? Because I can assure you nothing could be furthur from the truth.. My off the cuff joke aimed at you was written in a way I would to anyone I half liked.. a matey joke.. Your animosity comes as a complete surprise because i ahve never said a bad word about you.. other than you can be a bit cantacerous (spello?) but cant we all... for crying out loud I gave you good karma about an hrt or so ago way before this thread :)

I think you have your wires crossed less..

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Less, to be fair to Kipax, I read his comments as an attempt to be humourous.

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Rindy, I could have excepted it but for the 'everything is relative' dig, as it is I've P.M.'d Kipax with my apology for the lack of humour that I appear to have, but have also explained that I'm fed up with having these newbies that rather than try to find their own little niche are trying to take over all we (collectively), have worked for.

I go now to post in 'anything goes', because thats where I prefer to be.
:cool::D:(:eek::p:):mad:;):o:confused::rolleyes:

pick the one you want!

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And what have you "worked for" Less?.. you steam into new posters as if someones broke into your house...you have done what sort of work?

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haaa i just got it !!! i just got the relative bit... doh! .... i seriously just got it... oh dear...

less i replied to your pm a minute ago and all will be well ......


relative,, i get it now....but i meant it was relative to how long here... and i dont recall using it before... but i see now...

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Oh do shut up.

Less will steam into anyone who is acting the prat, newbie or oldie.

Anyway, if you expect an answer go and post your question in Anything Goes, as that's the place he's said he's hanging out at this present moment.:D

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just seen this thread and my opinion is that this b***T**D should be hung up and left for the public to deal with, these sickos, need putting down!!!
a life for a life!!

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For a minute there Panther I thought you meant Less http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/i...milies/eek.gif - until I looked back at what the thread was meant to be about! :D

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BTW Less used to have a go at me but I don't think he loves me anymore because we haven't crossed swords for ages.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...isp/fencin.gif

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I have a few reasons for against the eye for an eye thing. Oh and I was right, it did derive from a religious thing and I suppose some may argue that with science replacing religions, the death sentence also got replaced, but of course not everyone will believe religion has been replaced at all.

ANYWAY, reason number one for the death sentence being a waste of time was that the studies done to see if it really did deter offenders where never conclusive. Whilst the death penalty existed there was no significant lower crime rate. Some research actually showed a jump in the crime rate after an execution. Criminals seem to be deterred by the probability of being detected rather than the severity of their punishment if they are.

Second reason: Fatal miscarriages - Death is irreversible and the legal systems are fallible. It is inevitable that a portion of all executed people are innocent.
It also creates martyrs in the cases of politically motivated crimes - it brings valuable publicity and public may sympathise for their cause.
Some killers deserve compassion. Others become reformed characters after their convictions.

The most compelling argument is what if the person executed has commited no crime?

(These are the arguments in the back of the book stated at an earlier time 'Hamlyn History of Punishment and Torture by Karen Farrington')

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i was under the impression you could still be hung for treason? Blazey you may know the answer to that?:)

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Less knows the answer to that, no you can't that is another law that has been repealed, as I believe has piracy I think that was another one folk could be hung for until recently, (but if I'm wrong and it's still on the statutes forgive me).

Re: At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

You been listening to Meatloaf again cashy? :D

Re: At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

i agree with the death penalty for child killers!!
the scum shouldnt be allowed to roam this earth, if anyone attacked my kids or killed them then i would take the matter in my own hands, i would kill to protect my kids!!, or if any scum touched them, sorry but this is how i feel about them, i wouldnt pee on them if they were on fire!!!!!!!!!

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Re: At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

agree on those 2 points, but still in favour of death penalty, like the usa,system of degree of murder, although think it could be improved and used here if someone would have the guts to grasp the nettle. -afterthought =1dead martyr is better than 1 live terrorist.

Re: At Last Something Like A Proper Sentence.
 

cheers Less, wasn't aware of it.;)

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The American system does not seem to have had any positive effect in that country. Detroit regularly has more murders than the whole of Canada ... and probably the whole of England. What people seem to want is a little bit of death penalty for the crimes that disgust, shock, and frighten, but not in other murders ... scum killing scum for eg. Won't work. Pretty soon it will get like Texas (home of you know who) where they want to fry them all.