Condoms For Children
 

do the wise people of accy web think its a good idea to give condoms to 13 year old children at youth clubs and schools

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Yes, they should be free and easly available for anyone.

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In the grand scheme of things, condoms cost pence..

Unwanted teenage pregnancies, STI's and HIV cost Millions of pounds. Teenagers will have sex whether we want them to or not and as a society we have made it socially acceptable for young teenagers to become parents. If society has made this acceptable then there should be the means to protect teenagers from disease. STI's and HIV are most common between the ages of 15-25.

I would personally prefer not to see pregnant teenagers but have to accept that that is how it is these days. When my grandma was a lass, teenage girls getting pregnant either had to get rid or get wed. I'm not saying that the old ways were necessarily the best, but we have to accept that things have changed and employ whichever method of damage limitation we can. If it means easily accessible condoms then so be it.

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good idea i think, they might never use them but atlease they know what they are are what they are used for

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If you had asked me that question 40/50 years ago I would have said no but today I guess I would go along with it.

If nothing else they make great water bombs.

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In a word, yes.

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Definitely. Lettie said it all.

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I don't think it is right to compare sex to drugs.

Young people can be mature about sex at young ages these days as society makes them grow up faster and faster. It is inevitable that the majority of them will want to have sex lives and measures should accordingly be in place to make sure they are safe.

It would be impossible to teach the majority of teenagers to 'say no to sex'.
However, teaching them to be mature in their decisions regarding sex is a viable option for schools and youth groups etc.

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But they aren't being 'safe', as can be seen with the ever increasing rate of teen pregnancies in the UK. If young girls are getting pregnant, the very fact that they are conceiving, puts to bed the idea that they are being 'safe', and protecting themselves from every other possibility.

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I think that instead of handing out johnnies, they should try and educate young people.

Educate them not to the facts of life, they are already very well informed and it doesn't seem to have worked that well, but educate them to the consequences of their actions, and to learn to value and respect their bodies.

When young people are happy to chose parenthood as a lifestyle option at such a young age, and show no ambition to want to experience life in it's fullest sense, something is badly wrong with society. An over generous welfare state, which facilitates such choices, being one.

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I can't help thinking that it would have been better if the parents and Grandparents of some of our young neer-do-wells had been given contraceptives at an early age!

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I think some will do it anyway so I wouldn't object to the free condoms. Personally I cant believe people are doing it at 13 I was still playing with my dolls, agree that these teens need more real life education.

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Are you happy that we live in a world where little girls are becoming pregnant by little boys? Well I'm sorry but a 13 year old is still a child. Yes, they think they are very adult and responsible and, yes, they are much more knowing than previous generations but 13 is far too young to obliquely condone sexual activity.

Having to hand out condoms to children is an indictment of the sorry state of our social and moral climate. It's time to get back to some of those "old fashioned values" we got rammed down our throats some years ago. I would never advocate the prudish hypocricy of the early 20th century but things have gone far too much the other way. Children are actively encouraged to grow up too fast and are given far too much freedom. We treat them like adults when they are neither physically nor emotionally capable of being so.

The parent who polices what their child watches on TV, refuses to allow it to dress and behave much older than its years, keeps it on a tight rein and intills in it respect for others and for itself is, in my opinion, a good parent. If only we could persuade Society at large to be as responsible.

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So far all our aims to try to reduce Teen pregnancies and Sexually transmitted infections has been appalling. You can give out condoms, but who is to say that they will use them for the purpose they were intended.
And Yes, I know that by not giving contraceptives we are asking for trouble....but also by giving condoms it is almost giving permission for what is actually illegal. So I guess it is a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Children(that includes 13 year olds)need to realise that all actions have consequences.......we should stop sexualising 5 year old girls....T shirts that read 'so many boys....so little time' are clearly not appropriate for a five year old.....neither is a bare midriff with low slung pants or skirt...... we are turning children who are little more than babies into tramps/bratz.......then we wonder why we have problems with paedophiles finding these young children sexually attractive.........(and no, I'm not saying the children are to blame - but someone is, and it doesn't take a genius to work it out)..........but don't mind me these are only the narrow views of an old fogey!

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Surely an Ideal way would be both, education about the consequences of the actions but also provisions of condoms.

Regardless of the education, the message, some people will be having sex at school age, it happened when all of us were at school and it will happen in the future.

Cutting down on the numbers of sexually active schoolkids is not going to be easy but education about the consequences, STDs and the affects of these may help, provision of and encouragement to use condoms will hopefully cut down on unwanted pregnancies, abortions, and STDs.

Yes educate but lets not be blind to what also is happening

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what they intend to do and end up doing are two different things !

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Stanaccy, I would not advocate blindness, but I think it is a really tough road back to some kind of moral obligation and responsibility, especially when a court sees fit to throw out the case of a young girl who wished to declare her abstinence from sexual relations by the wearing of a ring.
We have to do what my parents did.......educate children to feel a high level of self esteem, be proud to be unique, and not to embark on something that you know doesn't feel right.....for the only reason that your peers SAY they are sexually active. Yes, I knew girls who were at school at the same time that I was and they were supposed to be having sex with every Tom Dick or Harry....because Tom dick and Harry were quite proud to smear these girls reputations.....I'm not so sure they were all up to what was said about them.
No-one got pregnant during my four years at secondary school - but then that was a long time ago and we read Bunty and Jackie....not the stuff that is produced for teenagers today.....'How to Make a guy Fancy You' proclaims one of these mags.....do we really want our young girls to be reading this stuff...it is corrosive.

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You can give all the free condoms there are going, but just like the horse taken to water you can not make it drink.

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Teenage pregnancies actually started to increase around the same time as sex education for younger people - which was the chicken and which the egg I wonder?

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I think that the motive was good but the execution of sex education may not be all that good. Personally, I think the nuts and bolts of sex education should be left in the hands of parents. Everyone knows their own children best, and though most parents embark upon this task with trepidation, I think the very fact that you KNOW your child allows you to couch the information in terms that you know they will accept......and I think it also allows the parent the opportunity to teach some moral boundaries too.
In the end we cannot live our childrens lives, and most of us want better lives for our children than we had ourselves....we can tell our children the mistakes we made....but that will not stop them making mistakes of their own.
Children need to know that they are loved...if that feeling is missing at home then they may embark upon sexual activity as a poor substitute.

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OK....so now I am a confirmed old fogey!

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younger kids are having kids but they are learning there lessons they are having smaller families now than 50 years ago when most families had six kids or more and then they never seemed to learn that money was tighter and they couldnt afford big families

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How skewed is society when a school nurse can dole out the morning after pill without a parent knowing, but cannot give paracetamol for a headache.
Haven't we got our values a bit mixed up?

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My daughter has just had sex education class in her last year at primary school. She is mature for her age and I am grateful for the school's help here. I HAVE NOT dressed my daughter provocatively and she isn't a particularly forward type of girl, several of her peer group are, and that pressure inevitably filters down. I think that anything that helps combat the growing rise of teenage mothers and the " council house/ baby" culture should be embraced; be it education or practical (ie the free condoms).

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50 years ago there wasn't the same availability of contraception, or the variety of contraception. That may have had something to do with why families had so many children.......abortion was not available either unless you were rich.

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the efects of a headache wont last as long as a unwanted kid

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On the other hand, you can't shut the stable door after the horse has bolted. Once a kid has picked up AIDS, handing him/her a condom to help prevent it is a little futile.

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So far Lindsay neither of those measures appears to be working very well.

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That puzzles me too Margaret:(.I remember a story in the paper a couple of years ago where a member of school staff arranged an abortion for pupil without informing her parents and the member of staff was within the law to do so! Madness.

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Gotta agree there Marg, a lot of it has go to be down to parenting or the lack of. I am not religious myself but I have my principles and I have explained to my child that I expect better of her than to end up pushing 2 kids round Accy in a buggy by the time she is 16. That may not meet wholesale approval on here but that's just my opinion, she is a bright kid and I want her to realise her full potential.

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It's a shame ... but nowadays there seems to be more girls up for it than there used to be .......... they don't have the same pride in themselves and think it's the only way to be accepted.

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And that's so bad ?

How about a young girl being made to keep a child by parents - and not being able to cope.

Kids have sex. Because it's fun. Give them free contraception and less will get pregnant, diseased etc. Being given a condom isn't suddenly going to turn a model catholic into the town bike. No matter how much you lot would like to think, kids can make their own decisions. And they can be just as good (or obviously as bad) as an adults.

Full education, easy availabilty of contraceptives and the rest is up to them, it's their lives after all.

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Some maybe, but not all, and those that do under the age of sixteen are breaking the law.

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I'd say the majority of children by the age of 16 have had sex. I'd actually go as far as saying the vast majority. Breaking the law isn't even an issue. I'm trying not to come across as mean I'm just telling the truth, perhaps a some what blunt way.

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I would agree to this but my daughters 13and i cant imagine her having sex had that age!!!!

my daughters got a good head on her shoulders, and i know for a fact shes not having sex, i have always been open about this subject to her and always tell her, if you are not ready then just say no, if they come out with the bull**** about..."if you love me....." then dump em, cuz if they loved you they would respect ya and wait:D
i always say to her being a virgin is cool, and that she will get loads of respect!!;)

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And of course you will be telling us they know everything there is to know about life so no guidance or advice is needed from adults :(

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I think that you are confusing "life" with "sex". There is much more to life than sex, altho' when you are young and your hormones are raging, it is hard to see this point. I also get the sense throughout this thread that there is a gender bias ... for some reason it seems that people think early sex is worse for girls than boys. Probably because of the pregnancy aspect ... but, because a young person, by accident of birth, is the one that concieves and bears the child, should not be a factor in a debate about sexuality in young people ... in a discussion of teenage pregnancy and the responsibility questions surrounding it, it's ok., but it is a separate question.

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I think prevention at all costs, young people are having sex, so if we can avoid one teenage pregnancy then free condoms are the right way to go. It is all well and good to say it is illegal to have sex under the age of sixteen, that doesn't stop it happening as a walk round our streets shows.

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I'm sorry to seem harsh, but did you read what I said ?

I said give a full education...

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It shouldn't be that the school can let a girl kill a life without a parent's consent but not a headache.If my daughter was planning an abortion I would want to know so I could suppport her through it.I know that some girls are afraid of what their parents would say if they had to inform them of their plans but these girls are under 16 and probably won't cope all that well with a hushed-up abortion either.

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I'm speaking from experience here, an ex girlfriend of mine did have an abortion without her parents knowing (this was before she met me by the way, I didn't get her pregnant) if she had to tell her parents she would now be a mother, her parents hardly did a good job bringing up her and her brother but they would have made her keep the child. For some people a "hushed up" abortion can save two lives - the child's and the mothers. It's all very good saying that you would support your daughter if she got pregnant, but not all parents would and some would "support" their daughter so much it could lead to them keeping a child they did not want.

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Late to the thread but please add me to the old (sensable) fogey list as I too say "in a word" NO!

Brian

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13 year olds may be just children but the youngest lass I have looked after in labour was just 13, she became pregnant at 12.... She wasn't from the stereotypical 'rough' family but from a fairly well to do, supportive family. To hear a 13 year old screaming in labour is not pleasant, neither for her mum nor myself. A free condom and a bit of education on how to use it may have saved her trauma. Labour is bad enough as an adult but to cope with it as a child is horrendous and traumatic.

The youngest lass I have ever looked after with HIV was 16. She caught it on her first sexual contact and we found it because we tested her due to being pregnant. A free condom and education on use may have prevented her a lifetime of antiretroviral drugs, side effects, and AIDS in later life.

Yes, the morals in this country have slipped, but if we can't get them back, and quickly, then we need systems in place to limit the damage.

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Abortion is the cure-all, isn't it? It's there if all else fails. Trouble is, it's not quite like that, there is a big difference between the theory and the reality. It sounds fine, when you're very young, get rid of an unwanted child and everything will be all right. What you have to find out is that it's not a case of popping a pill and, whoops, it's gone. Many abortions involve labour and giving birth, sometimes to a live foetus if the abortion is late. A foetus at only 12 weeks is recognisably a human baby, not a lump of jelly or a blob, and no matter how relieved a person might be to have terminated a pregnancy there is often a real sadness and guilt, even grief, that can lead to depression.

And kids have sex because it's fun? Drinking alcohol can be fun but sometimes it can lead to disaster. Driving a car is pretty much the same. It needs to be handled with responsibility and a level of maturity then it can be very pleasant and enhance your life quality. Sex is no different in that respect, it's unsafe in immature hands. Of course it's fun, but it's so much more so when it's between 2 people who love and respect each other and have the maturity to know it has implications of reponsibility.

Yours,

The oldest fogey on the forum. ;)

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wonder who is the youngest then?

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I don't mean in years, I mean in "fogeyism". :D

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It would have been helpful if you put what you meant.:confused:

Then again, since when did a woman say what she means?:rolleyes:

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Don't be facetious. And I mean that. ;)

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Then perhaps the law is wrong. Also probably a convenient and lazy way with dealing with a problem, shoving it under the rug so to speak. And the root problem is complex. Perhaps it is more effective to deal with the consequences of teen sex .... unwanted pregnancy, STDs, etc. ... and then work on the more fundamental issues that seem to be concerning people .... which seems to be that young people have values which are different from those with which we were raised. Perhaps both groups have to accomodate some changes. In Canada, the age of consent is 14, not sixteen. And of course, our temporary and minority conservative govt. wishes to raise it to 16. But that does not address the problem that there is little uniformity among teens. The frequency with which young people are having sex is greater among First Nations people ... as are the suicide and alcoholism rates. Obviously there is something other than kids wanting to screw at issue. It is a mistake to focus on the sexual aspect of a very complex issue.

Back in the 70s, at the time our govt. was legalizing homosexuality, our PM, Pierre Trudeau, said that the state has no right to determine what goes on in the bedrooms of the nation. (Unless the sex involves rape or young children.) A teenage girl who decides to have sex, may be confused, curious, responding to peer pressure. But she is not a slut as some posts imply, nor should she be a criminal.

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Willow, can I ask you a question.......are you my twin????? No of course you can't be ...you are much too young! I agree wholeheartedly.
It is a very thorny question...and like Lettie I have been on the sharp end of some teen pregnancies.......I still think that while we give out condoms it is as if we are giving permission for illegal sexual activity to take place......and the gender doesn't matter...boy or girl should be taught that they should not be having sex....and if they are then what they are doing is illegal...and the root causes as to why these Children are indulging in sexual activity should be sought......and while SamF may believe that the majority of the children think it is fun, for many of them it actually isn't because it isn't part of a loving/meaningful relationship...it is a coercion of one party by the other to experiment.

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And Eric you are spot on when you say that is a very complex issue...which is why the measures which have been employed so far, have had abysmal results.
We need to look at the reasons why some children (because however you slice it that is what they are)feel the need to seek solace in inappropriate sexual activity....is it because they aren't getting on with their parents? Is it purely because they want to get rid of the perceived stigma of virginity (like if you haven't had sex by 14 you must be seriously ugly, weird or both...and that has got to be a self esteem issue)...is it because they want to get pregnant, to have something that will love them unconditionally - for that you get them a puppy - except of course no benefits and council flat.
Oh, it seems that the reasons are legion......I quite frankly admit that I don't have the answer....but I know I would want a 13 year old of mine to come to me with any questions about sexuality...starting an adult based relationship....and I would have to be seriously convinced that the child knew the implications, consequences and responsibilities of their actions.

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Believe it or not I was once a teenager and went through all the usual teenage emotions, desires etc. I was a normal girl, I fancied boys, was curious about sex, thought I was very grown up. The one difference between me, along with most girls who were my age, and young girls now is that we knew that slut was just what we would be called if we had sex. We knew that no one would respect us, our parents would go beserk and, worst of all, we would lose our own self-respect. We knew that even the boys who wanted to be our sexual partners woudn't respect us either. We would become girls to bed, not wed.

Somewhere along the way the stigma of illicit sex has been lost. We are now so enlightened that we say, "It's natural. Give them condoms." No one really tells them that it's wrong, it's illegal and it's damaging. We're so busy trying to educate them how not to become single parents we've lost the ability to say, "You're a child. No way." Add to that the way we sit back while sex is flaunted in front of them from every angle, almost from the day they start Nursery School, and the picture is complete. Your little girl or boy says everyone's doing it, it's free, it's easy and it's "fun" and we older ones say, "OK but be careful"

I don't envy teenagers today. There are few parameters, few boundaries and precious few taboos. You're right, Eric, that there are other issues but, in my opinion, this is a damned big one with potentially disastrous consequences.

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Hrmm, got a lot to go at here.

Firstly, you say if sex is handled responsibly it can be enjoyable - free condoms would aid this.

Secondly, maturity and age are often two different things. There is no "magic" age where a person wakes up and is suddenly mature enough for a sexually active relationship. Being given condoms at 13 is a "catch-all" meaning that those who are going to have sex early will have the precautions required.

Thirdly, if the reason for not giving condoms to 13 year olds is that the couple are not in love/respect each other it is a false arguement. The fact is that you aren't going to get 13 year olds going out to club on a friday night, drinking all night and going home with someone they've just met - as can be said for the 18-30's. As to the knowledge of the consequences - this can only be combated with a full education.

Reckon I can claim that at the ripe old age of 17

~1st paragraph~
1st Question: Why not. If they are having sex anyway giving condoms away is going to have nothing but a positive effect.
2nd Question: Depends on the girl, but I would say, yes. No girl I know would have sex without some form of protection.
3rd Question: Yes.

~2nd paragraph~
That may work, though shock tactics are not normally favoured. This is of course assuming they need to be "put off" a responsible couple can have sex with over 97% chance of safety from pregnancy and transmission of STDs (that is using a condom which is 97% effective of preventing pregnancy + spread of disease, with the girl on "the pill" which is 100% effective - when being taken without memory lapses)

~3rd paragraph~
13 year old drivers wouldn't be able to afford the car, insurance running etc - however I also disagree with the driving age so I won't go there. As for drinking and smoking it is pretty much a no brainer. They definately cause harm, not matter what. Sex doesn't.

So everyone under the age of 16 is incapable of respect ? Just because a girl has sex doesn't make her a slut. There are teen couples that have lasted longer than some marriages. I actually find it quite insulting that you are so ignorant to assume that EVERY SINGLE male at the age of 13 onwards is after one thing and do not respect the girls they are with. That is simply not true.


With me you are getting the viewpoint of a 17 year old male. I wouldn't be offended to still be classed as a child to some of you. I am the person here most eligible to see "inside the mind" of a 13 year old male and I'll say this now, the benefits of giving away free condoms would far, far, far outweigh the consequences. As I mentioned before, being given a condom isn't going to turn the model catholic into the town bike, but it will mean that those who ARE going to have sex will have a higher chance of being safe.

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and i thought 40/50yrs ago that condoms were reusable,are you sure your waterbombs didnt bounce

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Well, I for one vote for giving 'em condoms for all the reasons already stated on this thread. 'Cause when nature does kick in Westender, not always difficult to stop, and no matter what social morals you may have taught your children, vicars, ministers kids were always the worst in my experience.

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you may not condone under age smoking at 13 but most kids smoke because they are brought up with parents puffing it in there face from a very young age it becomes away of life .lots of under age drinking is for the same reason.YET we woudnt dream of having sex in front of kids and bringing them up with it forsed on them.my point being when kids have sex it is more because they make a decision that is wright for them at the time and if helping them not to get pregnent or get nastey infections then giving free condoms away is a good thing as long as you are not forsing them on kids as long as they no they are there if they need them .

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my friends daughter as just been put on the pill and she is 13 years old with her mums consent.

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well thats were the free condems will come in handy

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i cant believe that, putting a child on the pill, my daughters 13 and i wouldnt dream of putting her on that!
at that age she shouldnt even be thinking of sex, probably because all her mates are doing it!, its a shame kids are trying to look older and want to be older than they really are, if i could go back in time i wouldnt do half the things i did back then. having sex is not clever, no wonder there is an increase in STD's!! what ever happened to playing with dolls:( and being a child!! its just silly!!

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There are other reasons to go on the pill other than to stop pregnancy.

As for the effectiveness

Combined Oral Contraceptive Pill - claim 99.8%

Birth Control Questions - claim 98%

The Pill - Birth Control Pills - Oral Contraception at www.Birth-Control-Comparison.info from Cedar River Clinics - claim 92-99.7%

As I mentioned before using a condom + the pill is pretty much 100% effective.

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I know that some young people go on the pull to get regular periods and less painful ones, e.g. some people who are my age now who are on the pill, were not originally on it for having sex, it was because they were in agony at irregular intervals.

However davo69 didn't specify what the pill was for in this case and since its in this thread we'll assume its not what im talking about.

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This 13 year old may have been put on the pill to control heavy, painful periods. My sister's GP offered to put her on it when she was 14 but my step mum refused and said that she would just have to put up with the pain, the pill at 14 was not going to be an option..

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at that age periods arnt regular anyway, it seems daft putting a 13 year old on the pill, especially with the health risk too!

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At the end of the day we should be trying to sort out the problems of underage sex. 13 is really young. However on the other hand, these social problems can't be sorted overnight so we need safeguards against pregnancy and STD's, hence the free condoms to young people works well.

Therefore im for using the free condoms as a short term solution, but I don't think it should be a long term one.

While we're at it, the advice centre in Accrington is only open like 3/4 days a week and not open at all at weekends. I think this is rather daft because theres no point having free condoms ect if youngsters can't get hold of them when they might need them. Are they under some illusion that young people don't have sex at weekends?

I'm not sure if the morning after pill is available in Accrington, perhaps it is from that advice centre but again rather useless if you can't get hold of it immediately. I know for a fact some people couldn't afford the £25 it costs from a pharmacy and for the sake of £25 it is much much better to prevent pregnancy in my opinion.

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the girl was put on the pill 3 weeks before she was 14 and was put on because she had been talking to her mum about sex and has been going with the lad for 2 years and they had started getting feelings so her mum took her to docs and the decision was made beetween the doc mum and daughter

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That took me back Willow, I got pregnant when I was 21 .. and the first thing my mum said was "Thought you said you would never do that sort of thing " Well, yes I did, didn't I, but ... ? Did the honourable thing and married the father, but who knows how my life would have turned out if I had not succumbed to that moment of passion.. Ok .. wasn't 13, but different attitudes then and not so much birth control available freely.

My grandaughter, by the way, has been on the Depo injection since she was 15 due to bad experiences with her periods, not because she was indulging in under age sex .. well, might have been, you never know do you ?

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It's all very well and good for people of older generations to say that 'well I wasn't at all like that at 13/14/15/whenever', but with all due respect, young teenagers in the current media run society are under tremendous pressures to make decisions about their lives and bodies that the majority of young teenagers in the past would not have had to face until later teenage years.

Therefore I can only see it a good thing to give more & better sexual education as young as possible, bring the kids up with this education from day one in primary school so that they are comfortable in thinking about these things and so are not alienated with massive decisions at the most difficult time; when they've got hormones flying all over the gaff.

Hiding young people away from the facts of life is simply not an option anymore, with more people becoming pregnant, younger.

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It was, the feelings were still there the chances were not, the safety net afforded to these teenagers today did not exist, the only thing we had was our parents who took a very dim view of 'that sort of thing'. If your parents decided to disown you, and many did what did you do who would take you in?, no free house no social or very limited help. No you were on your own, a great deterrant.

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Surely saying no to sex because of awareness of STI's etc is better than saying no purely because of fear of their parents' reactions?
Education is essential.

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I'm not saying it was the right way, it was a fact of life, you made your own bed and laid in it, no help from any 'social'. This is why divorce rates in our generation were so high, you put her in the 'family way', you married her, more often than not.

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Well said Ian. I agree totally that the feelings were there and I, like most of my mates at 15 - 16, became obsessed by those hormones flowing through our bodies.

However, society back then, circa 1976ish, frowned on sex at those ages. And thankfully, the young ladies (and parental/Church fears) did well to keep us "under control."

If we knew that our girlfriends were on the pill at 13, we would of been hanging outside the drugstores like dogs in heat! For those unaware (and as I've told hundreds of young ladies starting in 1st grade):
Guys are Dogs, not to be trusted:p (oh yeah, IMO)

Brian

Re: Condoms For Children
 

Humph .. without a condom in your pocket either LYY. :rolleyes:

'Course HIV and STD's were not talked about much then, were they ?
That's what's good about today .. lots of teenage girls now, I suspect, will insist on their boyfriends using them.

Re: Condoms For Children
 

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If sex ed. is taught from an early age within the curriculum, then when the time comes they will be able to make informed decisions - which would probably rule out the majority of 13 year olds wishing to have sex in the first place.

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No, of course not Willow, don't think anyone has said this yet on this thread .. but social/moral implications plus the knowledge of birth control is a good combination, even from an early age.

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In my time in the armed forces STDs were only contacted by, the 'commanding officer and the padre' they were allowed to catch it off a toilet seat or a towel, this was the sum total of the sex education in the armed forces.
Today sex education is the norm, but is it having any effect on the youth of today?, who quite rightly have their own views on the subject, and rightly so. There is no 'quick' fix to this problem, whilst society gives all and sundry various benefits,: large grants, access to the social services, top of the list for housing, the incentives to go astray are to large a temptation, and who can blame them!

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To be honest, I cannot see any 13 year old thinking of having a child to save getting a job, which it seems you are suggesting - I apologise if I have misinterpreted the meaning of your words.

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Some do.The incentives are,as Ianto said,can originally seem very tempting especially if the girl in question is not very academic and has poor job prospects.If she's only going to be able to get menial work then when you weigh up all the paid rent and council tax,free dental work,free prescriptions,maternity grants that she would get then she may start to think she'd be better off not bothering to get a job and get pregnant and staying at home.Of course,we know that getting pregnant and staying at home is far from easy,often going out to work is the easier option!:DBut some girls of 13/14 have a very rosy view of what life with a baby would be like and then have a very rude awakening when they go down that path and end up regretting losing their freedom at such a young age.

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To be honest I can't believe you've never come across any. There's a whole strata of society who chose to breed as a viable career option.

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That sucks ... there should be equality, perhaps in the form of stud payments.:rolleyes:

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Gelding springs more to mind.;)

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I don't understand:confused:. If you have a child you don't have to work:confused:? We have welfare for the very poor or disabled (MUCH stigma still attached and harder to come by). If your physically able, you are pretty much required to work. At least as I understand it.

Just curious how these kids could afford to have babies? Many times if young kids have babies over here, the parents (or I guess grandparents)will help with childcare and such:o.

Brian

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The OECD found that, of all the world's major economies, Britain has the worst benefits trap for women. A single mother moving back into work would have to forfeit 101.3 per cent of the extra cash she earned because of the extra tax, childcare costs, and relinquished benefits payouts.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...14/nmums14.xml

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I find this paragraph the most disturbing in that article:

Do we really have so many disabled men in their prime or is there something sadly wrong with the system?

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i myself am a 13 year old and i think that 13 is too young to be having sex so they should not need condoms because they should only be learning about it not actually doing it i also have never even thought about having sex let alone done it