A Teddy Bear Called ...............
 

It makes you wonder, what next?


http://news.bbc.co.ukhttp://news.bbc...ca/7112929.stm

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that link doesnt work..

hopefully this will??...

BBC NEWS | World | Africa | 'Muhammad' teddy teacher arrested

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Think its really OTT.

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Thanks for that, Emamum. It worked the first time - d'you think it's been sabotaged? :D

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Think it is absolutely disgusting. The fact that she could face the lash is beyond my comprehension. These people are like savages!!!

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absolutely ridiculous, the kids picked the name, and they are natives, people should think twice before going out to these places.:rolleyes:

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what a load of B*****ks!!!

most stupidest thing i have ever heard!!!


(sorry for my french;))

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And then muslims who emigrate to saner parts of the world wonder why people in their adopted homes don't like them, and why they are the victims of rascism. I am starting to think that the people of Quebec have the right idea.

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How come it is always them crying racism? We are the ones being told what we can and can't say. I think there is as much if not more racism against white people!!!

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Well I don't we have got to be able to voice our opinions;)

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Don't know if it's true but I've been told in the past that if you put Christmas lights up there you get arrested for it, yet we have to allow every religion free reign to do as they please, we even have divali lights in most cities and big towns now.
I asked the council to give me a grant for a nativity display to put in a shed 'stable' with a perspex type front outside our C of E church, I got knocked back, told the council can't be seen to supporting the faith. We're outsiders there and we're outsiders here now.

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I think its just realy daf,t with what ive just read

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This poor lady was, in my opinion, being a very good teacher. The teddy bear idea is similar to one that my granddaughter's school has. Each class has a soft toy and children are chosen on merit (not just work, behaviour as well) to take it home and write about what they did with it. It encourages them to plan activities and helps their essay writing skills, plus of course they do their best to be the one who gets to take it home.

So this woman let the children decide what to call their teddy and Mohammed was their favourite name. How, in the name of Allah, is that offensive to the Prophet? It sounds as though some idiot got the notion - hey, the infidel is insulting Mohammed - and the rest have followed like sheep. Isn't that how jihad gets off the ground?

It's 20 years since I was in Saudi Arabia but that was the most racist place I've ever been to. Perhaps racist isn't the correct word, shall I say religionist? They would not tolerate the practising of any religion other than Islam and the Lebanese we lived among (my husband was working for a Lebanese company), who were mostly devout Christians, had to have an "underground" priest, an engineer in his day job, who held mass in people's homes. If he had been discovered he would, at the very least, have been thrown out of the country. They allowed Christmas cards to be sold but they couldn't have the word Christmas on them - they said Happy Holiday - and they couldn't depict the nativity.

If this country treated a Muslim from Sudan the way this lady has been treated there would be uproar and international repercussions. Why isn't the British Government going in with guns blazing? Oh yes, I forgot, we are so tolerant, aren't we?

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mohammed is a very popular name... just like jesus is popular in spain... i can honestly say, as a catholic, that i wouldnt be bothered if she called it jesus.

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:rofl38: Hilarious .. come home Gillian where you belong. How anybody can threaten people with jail for naming a stuffed toy after a 'non-existent god' such as Mohammed is beyond my belief. There again, I am an atheist, and always find these type of issues very, very sad and misguided.

Mmmm . have a little stuffed toy somewhere in the house .. think I will christen him Jesus !! Can I expect the Christian mafia at my door in the morning .. :eek:

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yes katex..... we will be there at 7:p

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Well, may your god be with you .. I prefer Humans ... x

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If it's insulting to call a teddy bear Mohammed, why isn't it insulting to give your son that name?

Incidentally, the name Jesus is the Greek translation of the Hebrew name Joshua so every little boy named Joshua is really a Jesus.

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good job your address isnt up... you would have jehovahs witnesses round!

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Ah well, gotta' admire a tryer ..nowt wrong with that. :D

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The thing that puzzles me is this happened in September, has it taken nearly three months for the parents to get offended? In another reprt it said a colleague had complained which sounds more likely to me.

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Funnily enough we had them round on Saturday. There were 6 very young girls (no more than 16 years old), in pairs, going up and down our road in the pouring rain, looking thoroughly miserable and soaked to the skin. They were accompanied by 2 middle aged women and I felt like yelling at them to get the kids home before they got pneumonia.

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Their god before their kids I guess.. :mad:

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Did you do the Christian thing and invite them in to dry off and have a nice hot cuppa?

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mohammed must be hammered into these young children from a very early age , and must have been the first thing that springs to mind. but why should the teacher get fourty lashes or imprisonment for it? after all it was it was there children that named it .how would sudan react if britain did the same to a sudanise commiting a crime over here? totally over the top!

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I bet she wishes she had called it Rupert,:mad:

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sorry for the thread wander , but do you, or anyone else happen to know the names of the two other guys who were crucified alongside Jesus, are their names mentioned anywhere in the Bible or any other Bible , e.g. Orthodox , Coptic etc. something I have allways wondered about , thanks :confused:

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I don't believe they are mentioned by name Jack. Just that He was crucified along with two thieves.

Brian

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Got me into doing a bit of a search and came up with this , the two thieves were named Dismas and Gestas
Saint Dismas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

a bit of useless info that may come in useful in a pub quiz

apologies for the thread wander folks :D :D

back to the original subject , maybe if the teacher had remembered she was British and not tried 'going native' and named the Bear Rupert all this fuss have been avoided :rolleyes:

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Jesus is a popular name in hispanic countries. There is even an appropriate joke (thank god the hispanic people have a sense of humor): "Hey, if Jesus was Jewish, how come he have a Mexican name." Major league baseball has had great players whose first name was Jesus.

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I bet she wishes she could come home. Nothing mildly amusing about the possibility of facing 40 lashes.

BTW Mohammed wasn't a God (real or nimaginary) he was a human being who declared himself to be a prophet of God. He wasn't the only person ever to have had that name so to make the assumption that a teddy bear called Mohammed is being named after the prophet is a dangerous assumption. To the children who chose the name it would probably jsut be another name by which some of their playmates are called (even if the parents did name them in honour of the prophet. It's OK to give the name to people but not toys or animals.)

I think it's because it has been used with the intention of being racially derogatory like the 'n' word or the 'w' word which are banned here on this forum because they are seen as racially offensive. The amusing thing is that the 'p' word is often used by Pakistani people themselves. A couple of years ago someone was banned from this forum for using it even though it wasn't meant in a derogatory way. It's just a PC minefield.

They are not actually named in the Bible but then again the Bible is only a selection of writings which were chosen and collated together. There are other gospel centred books which were at one time included and then excluded. There are some which are classed as "The Apocrypha" and appear in some Bibles but not in others, and just to complicate it even further not all Apocrypha contain the same books - that's before we get onto the books which never even made it into an apocrypha but are often referred to as apocryphal, and then there are yet other which have been discovered later and are disputed by some scholars.

Thus we have 'traditional names' which may or may not be the actual names - bit like Caspar, Melchior and Balthazar for the 3 wise men (or kings according to some traditions) who brought gifts to the Christ Child (who wasn't born on December 25th)

So it depends where you look for information. According to one apocryphal book the good thief was called Titus and he first shows up when Mary and Joseph are fleeing into Egypt with the baby Jesus to escape Herod's 'slaughter of the innocents'. He supposedly stopped other thieves from robbing the holy family. That story refers to the other thief as Dumachus.

But then again even in the canonical Gospels we get one person being referred to by different names (Dorcas being a classic example) depending on who is writing about them.

The names according to the Russian Orthodox church are Dismas for the good guy and Gestas for the bad guy. Interestingly the French name Dumas (as in Alexandre Dumas who actually called Dumas Davy de la Pailleterie ) is supposedly derived from Dismas.

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When you are in Kingston, viist the Church of the Good Thief, built from stone quarried by the prisoners at Kingston Penitentiary in the nineteeth century. And for a name, try St. Dismas, the good thief, or the penitent thief.

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The Church of the Good thief is a beautiful little gem. In the roof tiles there are images of three crosses. The Church of the Good Thief, Kingston, Ontario And if any of you are lucky enough to visit our city, it is well worth a look. It is situated in the Village of Portsmouth, close to the Portsmouth Olympic Harbor, and the Ports Tavern, a great little pub where even a Brit will feel at home. Sorry for the wander, but, who knows, there maybe a bear called Jesus inside. That is, inside the church, not the pub.:D

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Thank God ,,oops i mean Goodness ,common sense prevails,,, All charges have been dropped,,,

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should think so, a 7 yr old child in the class said he asked for the teddy to be named after him,not the prophet. it still begs the question to me- WHY do people go out to these places? everyone knows the score with these crazy places, while the people may be deserving, the religious crackpots that govern them, certainly are NOT.:(

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What places? You wouldn't be talking about the US would you:confused::D

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where ya got that info granny? just watched sky news, n shes been charged:confused:

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I was just going to say that Cashy. She faces sentencing tomorrow. :(

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I just read the article in the "Telegraph" on line. And that seems to suggest that she is off the hook. Maybe the news on Sky is more current, or maybe there are conflicting reports.

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I have no sympathy for this woman whatsoever. She knew the risks when she went to that country and now she pays the price. Meanwhile, time and money is spent by the British Taxpayer in trying to get her off the hook. The simple fact is that Sudan is a madhouse and the only way you can deal with these people is to go in with a show of force. Kitchener did it in 1898 and seriously kicked some arse; there were no problems there whatsoever while it remained a British Protectorate. No sooner did we leave - and as in the rest of Africa - the place went to the dogs.

Talking about dogs - who was it on here who told me of someone in Church who had a dog called ASBO?

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Oh dear, sorry to tell you Katex but if you name your stuffed toy "Jesus" you could well suffer the same fate as that poor teacher in the Sudan:eek:

Mohammed is not the only prophet revered by Muslims, here is a list of the 25 that are mentioned in the Qur'an.....................

Adam
• Idris (Enoch)
• Nuh (Noah)
• Hud
• Saleh
• Ibrahim (Abraham)
• Isma'il (Ishmael)
• Ishaq (Isaac)
• Lut (Lot)
• Ya'qub (Jacob)
• Yousef (Joseph)
• Shu'aib
• Ayyub (Job)
• Musa (Moses)
• Harun (Aaron)
• Dhu'l-kifl (Ezekiel)
• Dawud (David)
• Sulaiman (Solomon)
• Ilias (Elias)
• Al-Yasa (Elisha)
• Yunus (Jonah)
• Zakariyya (Zechariah)
• Yahya (John)
• 'Isa (Jesus):behead:
• Muhammad

..................and yes, it IS the same Jesus Christ born to Mary :confused:

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not really Eric, been a couple of times meself,but sure as hell wouldn't go to some like SUDAN.;)i'm with T. 100% on this.

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I wonder, apropos the name Mohammed, about the ones who had the name before the prophet was born. Unless the name was invented just for him, which I doubt, I don't see how Muslims can claim exclusivity on its use.

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Me neither. The Sudan is right up there on my list of places not to visit, along with Iraq, Afghanistan, Haiti, and Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan.:D

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I wouldn't let it bother you .... rational thinking and sane logic are not big with the Islamic extremists ... or extremists of any stripe come to think of it, the Aryan Nations folks in the wackier parts of the States for eg.:rolleyes:

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I take it Adolph is a sacred name there then? ;)

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I know,,But it WAS on tele this morning .maybe i heard it wrong...:o:o

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Indeed it is; ever hear of Adolph Coors, founder of a great American institution: Coors Lite, really crappy beer:D:D:D

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Just noticed the last part of your post. And I would be 100% against. Gunboat diplomacy or "civilization" at bayonet point never really worked in the long run. Kitchener might have had it all his own way at Omdurman (I do believe that Churchill rode in that last great cavalry charge) but Gordon was not so lucky. The problem with Empire is that at some point the Imperial power has to leave, and then all hell breaks loose in the power vacuum. It happened in England after the great Sack of Rome and the departure of the Legions. You can't just say: "Now you are free, have a nice life."

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what really razzes me off is whilst this foolish woman can be gaoled,flogged,etc, for a child naming a teddy, religious fanatics can preach jihad on our streets for years without retribution, theres summat sadly wrong with us for letting things like this happen, the government/ public should get off the pot and sort this crazy imbalance out P.D.Q. end of rant.:mad::mad:

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You are quite right it is getting out of hand, time we let our feelings known if we don't we'll be sorry!!!

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whats come out now, a secretary at the school (after complaints from SOME parents) made the allegation, another good reason why brits should keep the hell away from these countries, and this SOFT government should be directing them to do so. its about time everyone stopped pussyfooting about n said BALLS to the PC/DOOGOODER brigade.:mad:

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The lady has been found guilty of 1 charge, Insulting Religion. She will serve 15 days in prison and then be deported. Outrageous.

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Maybe we should follow suit with a sudanese person over here :mad:

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Just a pity our justice system doesn't see fit to deport all these immigrants that break the law!!!!

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here, here!!!

too bloody soft thats why!:rolleyes:
you get away with almost owt in this country, thats why they all coming over ere!:(

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:Banane35:I'll drink to that

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Imperialism was and is worong. Any unwarrented domination of one strong people ove a weaker people is wrong. Imposing unworkable and often stupid national boundaries on traditional systems is wrong. But, having said that, one has to ask, how long must a country thro' its govt have to apologise. And it seems like the British govt., is bending over backwards (and quite often forwards) to accomodate immigrants from former Imperial territories. The Empire is gone ... and I don't think anyone really misses it ... and maybe it's time to get rid of the guilt. And it is definately time that your govt. stopped acting as if it is still the guilty party.

Just a few thoughts from the former colonies, in the middle of what looks like a nice little blizzard.

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The thing is about this pathetic excuse for a trumped up charge is it smells so much of a political charge.

Moslems all over the world have said there is nothing offensive about this, however when you add in the recent statements the government have made about Sudanese oppression in Darfur, and then take in the fact that this regime is morally corrupt, it pays it to deflect attention to something like this and have itself criticised for something relatively minor rather than genocide.

The stupid thing about this is it will help cement the view that islam is an intolernat fundamentalist religion, which, after having known many moslems in my life, know it not to be true.

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Didn't we just recently have a sudanise relife fund , due to the genocide that is happening in that country? It makes someone naming a teddy a bit pathetic. was roosavelt offended ?

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ere ere ...

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even the Muslim Council of Gt Britain has condemded the sudanese government STRONGER than our own Lily Livered lot, makes me proud to be british? i think not.:mad:

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Sudan like the new name for the reveered one, the new nationa lanthem is Elvis Prestly singing I just want to be your loving TEDDY BEAR putme in chains and lead me to your jail, *******

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They have now decided the sentence is too lenient and want her shot :mad:

Thousands of people have marched in the Sudanese capital Khartoum to call for UK teacher Gillian Gibbons to be shot.

Mrs Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool, was jailed by a court on Thursday after children in her class named a teddy bear Muhammad.
She was sentenced to 15 days for insulting religion, and she will then be deported.
The Foreign Office was in contact with Sudan's government overnight and is due to repeat demands for her release.
The marchers took to the streets after Friday prayers to denounce the sentence as too lenient.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif
The protesters gathered in Martyrs Square, outside the presidential palace in the capital, many of them carrying knives and sticks.

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well that says to all the suckers in the U.K.- carry on sending us aid, and we will carry on treating your people like animals.:rolleyes:

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[quote=lancsdave;499073]They have now decided the sentence is too lenient and want her shot :mad:

Thousands of people have marched in the Sudanese capital Khartoum to call for UK teacher Gillian Gibbons to be shot.

Mrs Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool, was jailed by a court on Thursday after children in her class named a teddy bear Muhammad.
She was sentenced to 15 days for insulting religion, and she will then be deported.
The Foreign Office was in contact with Sudan's government overnight and is due to repeat demands for her release.
The marchers took to the streets after Friday prayers to denounce the sentence as too lenient. Cecil Rhodes once stated ''you cantake the native out of the bush, but you can not tke the bush out of the native'' .

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they would be smiling- BARBARIANS enjoy that sort of thing.:mad:

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A (Christian) friend of mine worked for several years as a teacher in Sudan, she, unlike the lady in question, spent hours researching the customs and culture etc of this country before she went. She became very fond of the people she taught and worked alongside, and never had any problems at all with the religious side of things.
Maybe if the lady had taken the time and trouble to do the same, she would not have got into strife. Having said that, I do agree that the reaction of the Sudanese is extremely OTT.


p s

Good job it wasn't a fluffy piglet!!!!!

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Shame those coming to our country don't take the same trouble of learning our culture instead of getting it changed :mad:

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spot on Dave, wether the foolish woman took the trouble or not is irrelavant to me jellybaby, a reaction like the sudanese have made to a non-event that even our own Muslim Council say is outrageous is the point.;)

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A BBC correspondent said, yesterday, that many Sudanese were led to believe Mrs Gibbons had "made a representation of an animal then called it Mohammed". That is how evil regimes manipulate the population. That is how those with their own "agenda" incite otherwise peaceful people to jihad.

This whole farce of a charge, trial and sentence has been engineered to promote anti-West feelings amongst the less educated Sudanese and deflect attention from Darfur.

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Rent a mob willow brainwashed in themos que on Friday prayers,nutter slike them do not desrve any hep or aid ungratefull idiots

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Here here ..........

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I may be wandering into something completely off topic, but just how difficult (or easy, if you want to look at it that way) to get into England? Is it as "open door" as a lot of comments in various threads seem to suggest?:confused:

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When and if Mrs. Gibbons returns to the U.K., she may well find herself having to go "underground", a la Salman Rushdie.

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To damn easy as far as I'm concerned, we have people coming from all over.:(

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Last time I went back (to the UK) I got stopped at immigration by a guy in a turban wanting to know the reason for my visit , I explained I had come to bury my Father , so he stamped my passport 'good for three months only/ no work ' , a bit surprising really, considering I had been born and raised in the country . So I suppose even if you are born there you have no automatic right of abode there . :confused: :confused:

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I was just wondering because the Canadian govt. requires that those wanting Landed Immigrant Status have to score a certain number of "points." There is a long and complex questionaire, and one has to pass in order to be considered for this first step in aquiring citizenship. A couple of years ago ... I can't exactly remember when ... the test was given to a bunch of Canadian citizens, most of whom failed the test and would not be Canadians if they had not been born here:eek: La Belle Province is even tougher on those wanting to settle in Quebec.

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Would stick my neck on the line and say the vetting for UK Residency is a joke compared to other countries. Come on how many countries put notices up in foreign places telling people what benefits they will be entitled to if they come to live here? It is well known this is what they did in Poland telling them they could claim child benefit for children not even resident in the UK:eek: Before people start telling me they are only taking jobs that British people won't do they are not. They are taking the low paid jobs and are prepared to work for less than the minimum wage. Also they are working longer hours against H&S advice!!! I do wonder if they can claim family credit as well. The reason I wonder that is my sister who works at Hollands said they had two Poles working there who regularly did overtime. The other week they said they just want normal hours. My suspicious mind then thinks are they due for a revue of their benefits for which they need six weeks proof of pay? If the way benefits are calculated hasn't changed once you are awarded said money they can't change it for a certain length of time. As soon as benefits are awarded you can then go back on overtime. Another thing is if their families are not living here money is being lost from the economy because very little of what they earn is spent here.
I don't blame the people for coming here I blame our goverment for allowing it to happen and causing feelings of resentment to fester because what few jobs there were are being taken by immigrants!!!

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This country is easy to get into, but the government are looking at ways to make it impossible for us to leave. (a propos the 53 questions we will have to answer if we want to get on a train, a ship or a plane leaving these shores)

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I,m not up to speed on this thread.I don't think i am a racist either but the treatment this woman has got is disgraesfull.Bollox to this,tell sudan to let her go or we will make their country a nuclear waste ground.Stop all aid.Tell OXFAM to pull out and led sudan get on with every drought it gets from now on!

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We must remember that when people go to other countries to work they must respect the religion and culture of the people to whom they are going, i worked in Sudan for over three years and we were told what we could and could not do, respecting religion was one of them, i only wish we christians were as committed to our religion as Muslims are to theirs, you only have to go to any church on Sunday to say twenty or thirty people there, same isnt it wih Christmas everyone is running around getting presents and booze and food without ever remembering anything about what they are celebrating so we cant call other countries, to them their religion is the very essence of their lives, since the so called war on terror muslims have been branded as terrorists which is unfair, then this teacher goes to a muslim country and calls and lets young chidren call a teddybear Mohammed? come on folks its not on and it is an insult maybe she should not be in prison but deported at once. Its not the Uk where christians have had to put up with their faith being marginised and treated with contempt by our own people, muslims revere Christ as a prophet and would feel just the same when they hear his name being taken and used and abused by many

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What has struck me about this whole affair is-
How can a woman in her 50s, from Liverpool, be so naive

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I will refer back to post #80

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Here is a bit I agree with from the newspaper.

If you want to read the rest you will have to buy the paper 'cus I am not typing it all in :D

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I would estimate that 90% of the people rioting in Khartoum haven't really got a clue what it's all about. They've been told a Western woman insulted the Prophet by naming a "savage" beast (they don't know what a teddy bear is) after him. They've also been told that they mustn't tolerate it because they are good Muslims.

Why aren't we seeing protest marches outside the Sudanese Embassy? Why do we put up with every outrage that comes our way? Why the hell are we giving £millions in aid to a vicious, corrupt state like Sudan that indoctrinates its citizens with hate for the West?