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-   -   Tories "work for benifits" scheme (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/tories-work-for-benifits-scheme-36004.html)

Margaret Pilkington 09-01-2008 13:17
Re: Tories "work for benifits" scheme
 
Well, Gareth you may think I was contradicting myself, but the point I wanted to make was that jobs should be real jobs....making the dole an unnecessary benefit.
One of the problems that we have with some unemployed people is that they want jobs with good wages and good prospects, but have limited marketable skills....no-one appears to want what are seen as 'menial' jobs.
We have a migrant population who will do the menial tasks and will do them for a cheap rate, so then the indigent unemployed bleat on about migrant workers taking jobs....but they appear to be jobs that our own population do not want to do.

The benefits system has been allowed to run out of control for too long....no political party has had the guts or the gumption to radically overhaul it, for fear of losing votes.
All the political parties have been guilty of just tinkering with it, hoping someone else would come along and do the real work on it.......and we all know that that never happens.

Gareth 09-01-2008 15:20
Re: Tories "work for benifits" scheme
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 514742)
Well, Gareth you may think I was contradicting myself, but the point I wanted to make was that jobs should be real jobs....making the dole an unnecessary benefit.
One of the problems that we have with some unemployed people is that they want jobs with good wages and good prospects, but have limited marketable skills....no-one appears to want what are seen as 'menial' jobs.
We have a migrant population who will do the menial tasks and will do them for a cheap rate, so then the indigent unemployed bleat on about migrant workers taking jobs....but they appear to be jobs that our own population do not want to do.

The benefits system has been allowed to run out of control for too long....no political party has had the guts or the gumption to radically overhaul it, for fear of losing votes.
All the political parties have been guilty of just tinkering with it, hoping someone else would come along and do the real work on it.......and we all know that that never happens.
My apologies, I understand with the clarification. I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment. The "dole jobs" should be a purely temporary situation which would encourage people to see out a "real" job, or the skills necessary to eventually acquire a "real" job. Unfortunately, in our economy, we don't have the luxury of full employment that we had in the early 50s, caused in great part by the deaths of 300,000 abled bodied males, and 65,000 civilians during world war II.

As long as the UK remains part of the EU, migrant workers will continue to come and do unskilled work. We have a population that needs to either get skills or compete with migrant workers. If they weren't getting benefits to let them permanently sit on their behinds they would have to choose one or the other. I would think most people would go for the former than the latter.

As to the desire of some to want an easy job that pays a ton of cash, I quote Peter Sellers when asked about his job. He said he was helping the women at the Moulin Rouge into their costumes for 25 francs a week. When a friend said that's not very much - he said that's all I can afford. Typically, jobs aren't fun all the time, if they were, they would be called a hobby and so many people would want to do it that you wouldn't get paid.

park381 09-01-2008 16:11
Re: Tories "work for benifits" scheme
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 514377)
We, in this country, pay benefits to people who have not paid a penny into the system.
This needs to stop. In most countries if you emigrate you have to have enough funds to support yourself for a period of time and you are not entitled to benefits unless you have contributed.
This is so true and needs sorting out.

There is no shortage of jobs, the papers are full of them

Jobs in Blackburn with Darwen, Burnley, Chorley, Hyndburn, Pendle, Ribble Valley and Rossendale

£300M spent by HM gov. on giving "free english lessons" :eek: :eek:

jambutty 09-01-2008 18:24
Re: Tories "work for benifits" scheme
 
All you holier than thou bigots clinging to the top of the moral high ground would have a totally different perspective if you were on the dole with skills that no one wanted.

park381 09-01-2008 18:32
Re: Tories "work for benifits" scheme
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 514821)
All you holier than thou bigots clinging to the top of the moral high ground would have a totally different perspective if you were on the dole with skills that no one wanted.
And what sort of skill would that be? what a silly statement to make. Learn a new skill

Margaret Pilkington 09-01-2008 19:12
Re: Tories "work for benifits" scheme
 
There is no crime in being on the dole jambutty, but it is a crime not to look for a job, or train for something that the job market can sustain....and yes, this may mean that in a lifetime of work, adults may have to retrain several times to be marketable....and anyone with any common sense will see that.
It is no longer sensible to think you can have any job for your entire working life....but dole should be a safety net.....not a way of life or a career option.

WillowTheWhisp 09-01-2008 21:07
Re: Tories "work for benifits" scheme
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 514821)
All you holier than thou bigots clinging to the top of the moral high ground would have a totally different perspective if you were on the dole with skills that no one wanted.
I can see a point in this statement where someone has trained for a particular career and then cannot find work in that field, but surely it shouldn't stop them doing something else in the meantime rather than sitting there waiting for the right job to come along. My late husband took a cleaning job when he couldn't find something which he was actually looking for. It doesn't have to be a choice for life - they can still look for the ideal.

garinda 09-01-2008 23:21
Re: Tories "work for benifits" scheme
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 514821)
All you holier than thou bigots clinging to the top of the moral high ground would have a totally different perspective if you were on the dole with skills that no one wanted.

I thought you were retired now?

MikeSz 10-01-2008 00:46
Re: Tories "work for benifits" scheme
 
Wow, and isnt this just a little political hot potato!!! A good friend of mine who is the most liberal person you could meet and who's opinion I always value said today that he would vote for a modern Conservative party who recognised the need for people to be looked after whilst acknowledging that with rights come responsibilities, and that means not sitting on your backside expecting someone else to pay for you whilst you watch deal or no deal. I have to say I was shocked, but it seems that this subject touches a few peoples nerves in many ways!

andrewb 10-01-2008 03:27
Re: Tories "work for benifits" scheme
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty (Post 514485)
Compared to a pensioner £5.52 per hour is above the poverty line but what about a family man with a wife and two kids?

I read recently that there are several thousand newly qualified doctors who cannot get a position so presumably they will have to sign on the dole. So what job would you allocate them?

What do you do with a 54 years old engineer/electrician/plumber/accountant etc.?

All these ‘solutions’ are coming from people in employment and of course they know it all. “I got off my backside and made something of myself, why don’t you?” is a phrase that is often bandied about by the self employed. Well not everyone can and has the ability to become self employed. But then were would the workers come from if everyone was self employed? In any case of all the thousands of new self employed some half end up bankrupt within six months. Yes there is practical help out there when starting your own business but the help is not free and just leeches away the lifeblood of the business.

You get a different perspective in the dole queue and you do the best that you can for yourself and your family.
The doctors issue is down to obvious mismanagement. Its the same with Nurses, the NHS are training them then there's no job for them to go to once they have trained. However it is NOT the states role to make a job where it is not required on a permanent basis in order to artificially decrease unemployment levels. It is simply not sustainable.

To the 54 year old engineer, electrician, plumber, accountant, the workplace is crying out for them. There are lots of jobs available and if they don't like it, it is still not too late to retrain!

The benefits system should always be there as a safety net not a career choice.

People can afford to sit around doing nothing because we pay them to do it. Remove that choice. Tell people if they want those benefits they need to earn them. It is time people took responsibility for their own lives. It is not the role of the government to nurse you from cradle to grave, its there to protect our rights to Life, Liberty and Property of ones person.

steeljack 10-01-2008 04:24
Re: Tories "work for benifits" scheme
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 515043)
.......... its there to protect our rights to Life, Liberty and Property of ones person.
in that case the Govt. is clearly not doing its job

#1 protecting life ......how many unborn lives does the Govt. allow/pay for to be destroyed every year through state sponsored murder (abortion)

#2 protecting Liberty, anyone arrested (not convicted) in the UK has to provide a DNA sample which goes into a central Govt. data base . and as I understand it , from one sample of DNA it is possible to identify the DNA of both parents ...so in actual fact the data base is holding three times the actual number of samples ,........ it would be interesting to know what percentage of the samples on file have actually been used to get a conviction ...

#3 protecting Property..... in that case the the Police detection rates for crimes against person and property would be higher than the abysmal rates of less than 30%

jambutty 10-01-2008 12:02
Re: Tories "work for benifits" scheme
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by park381 (Post 514829)
And what sort of skill would that be? what a silly statement to make. Learn a new skill
No sillier than your response.:tongueout

jambutty 10-01-2008 12:06
Re: Tories "work for benifits" scheme
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 514848)
There is no crime in being on the dole jambutty, but it is a crime not to look for a job, or train for something that the job market can sustain....and yes, this may mean that in a lifetime of work, adults may have to retrain several times to be marketable....and anyone with any common sense will see that.
It is no longer sensible to think you can have any job for your entire working life....but dole should be a safety net.....not a way of life or a career option.
I never said that it was a crime to be on the dole and so far it isn’t a crime not to look for a suitable job or train for a new skill.:tongueout

jambutty 10-01-2008 12:10
Re: Tories "work for benifits" scheme
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 514932)
I can see a point in this statement where someone has trained for a particular career and then cannot find work in that field, but surely it shouldn't stop them doing something else in the meantime rather than sitting there waiting for the right job to come along. My late husband took a cleaning job when he couldn't find something which he was actually looking for. It doesn't have to be a choice for life - they can still look for the ideal.
What do you suggest the several thousand newly qualified doctors turn their hands to?:tongueout

jambutty 10-01-2008 12:12
Re: Tories "work for benifits" scheme
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 515019)
I thought you were retired now?
What’s that got to do with it?:tongueout


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