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-   -   Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader' (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/should-graham-jones-resign-labour-group-leader-39032.html)

andrewb 02-05-2008 02:06
Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
The people have sent a clear message to the Labour group - dirty tactics do not work, and the people of Hyndburn are not idiots, they don't believe the deceptive leaflets put out by the Labour party with misleading figures, and misleading sources, as if the rubbish they quoted was recent!

Losing a Labour seat even though they claim we have the highest council tax in the country (untrue), even though they have the worst things to say about the Conservatives, even though they claim the Conservatives are doing a terrible job.

Negative campaigning doesn't resonate with the electorate in locals, people care about what is being done, people care about if their councillor is at the end of the phone whenever they need him/her. Is Graham up to being leader after the latest disaster?

mani 02-05-2008 02:32
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
http://www.newmexiconuts.net/catalog/tumbleweed.jpg

but in all honesty it was done from all sides. the battle for central ward was such a personal bitter affair. it was no longer about politics - it was about who cud mud-sling the other better

and in the middle was the lib dem guy. not just on the leaflets - but from supporters too

Rob249 02-05-2008 02:46
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
I'm glad they lost tonite, the labour party are a bunch of idiots and wouldn't know how to run a bath, never mind this council, glad the people of hyndburn kept them out again, hoping for an early general election so they get kicked out for good, doubt it will happen tho knowing that idiot brown, anyway well done tories.I wouldn't trust labour party as far as i could throw them.

blazey 02-05-2008 04:46
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
I have voted no. How can anyone suggest a politician resign for using dirty tactics? I know in an ideal world we do not want politicians to do this but it has always happened and it always will, and it most certainly wont be one sided either.

steeljack 02-05-2008 06:59
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
I've allways thought the Japanese have the right idea .......all politicians who have lost the faith of their constituants should be required to commit Seppuku, and not retire on bloated pensions and other benefits that the mainstream electorate can only dream of ;) ;)

onlyme 02-05-2008 07:24
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Couldnt care less if he resigned or not- politics is all about spin tactics, and not only exclusive to Labour.

What I dont like is when the argument gets personal, which this post appears to be.

To me, theres no need for it. The voters have showed where their support lies.

andrewb 02-05-2008 07:38
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyme (Post 570276)
Couldnt care less if he resigned or not- politics is all about spin tactics, and not only exclusive to Labour.

What I dont like is when the argument gets personal, which this post appears to be.

To me, theres no need for it. The voters have showed where their support lies.
Nothing personal, he just happens to be the leader of the group who should take responsibility. I'd have to hate the guy for it to be personal, and I have no reason to other than his politics, and I couldn't hate somebody over their politics.

For the record I voted no. ;)

lettie 02-05-2008 07:46
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Under no circumstances should Graham resign. He is the only councillor in Peel who actually gets off his bum and helps the community. Residents in Peel see Graham regularly and can contact him with problems any time of day or night, he always tries to help. This is more than can be said for our Tory councillor who, I had never heard of until I went to vote yesterday, couldn't tell you if he/she is male or female and, certainly don't expect to meet in the near future.

All political parties use spin and dirty tactics these days, that's life but, I will always vote for the people who show backbone, are committed to helping their community and are willing to put up a fight for what they believe is right. Graham will get my vote any day for his hard work in my ward and the improvements that he has made.

andrewb 02-05-2008 07:55
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Don't get me wrong lettie the poll isn't about him resigning as a councillor, I'm talking about labour group leader.

Also the reason you haven't seen your conservative councillor is that you don't have one. They're both labour.

onlyme 02-05-2008 07:58
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 570278)
Nothing personal, he just happens to be the leader of the group who should take responsibility.

For the record I voted no. ;)
Would that not be Gordon Brown? Although Grahams rambling posts on here get my goat slightly, he can only follow his partie's direction. It appears that on a 'job description' level, he does his bit, being out and about and so on. Its a shame that he works for a load of..... I'm not allowed to use asterisks anymore am I? Shame.

andrewb 02-05-2008 08:01
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyme (Post 570286)
Would that not be Gordon Brown? Although Grahams rambling posts on here get my goat slightly, he can only follow his partie's direction. It appears that on a 'job description' level, he does his bit, being out and about and so on. Its a shame that he works for a load of..... I'm not allowed to use asterisks anymore am I? Shame.
Brown is the party leader.

Graham is leader of the Labour group on the council, which means if Labour had gained a majority he would be our council leader. In the same way Britcliffe is the leader of the Conservative group and is the leader of the council because they have the majority.

On the job level description for 'councillor' he does his job in peel ward undoubtedly.

onlyme 02-05-2008 08:02
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Incidentally, I'm hoping that all the tree parts that keep getting posted through my door will now stop.

Would love to know as well, why, when people are knocking on my door asking for my vote, no matter which party they are representing, they just walk away when i tell them. If someone should a bit of gumption and asked why, it may actually show a bit of interest in a voter, and who knows, I might have changed my mind

blazey 02-05-2008 08:02
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
I too think this is more of a personal attack rather than any thing else. What good is this thread going to do for anybody?

Maybe Cyfr you should concentrate on your own party instead of concerning yourself with so much of Graham Jones' life. I noticed you have cut ties with me recently, and whilst I agree with the idea of keeping your friends close and your enemies closer, I think your not being particularly likable recently and it's disheartening to think that someone with potential is spending way too much time in the playground at the moment and creating a tense atmosphere.

That is my personal opinion anyway, you don't have to agree with it but that is the way you have made me feel. If you continue the way you are going with this then I don't think there will be the future for the conservatives in hyndburn that you dream of, you'll just push people away from both parties and into the hands of undesirable ones.

garinda 02-05-2008 08:10
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Considering Labour only lost one seat in Hyndburn I think they did pretty well, considering what has happened in the rest of the country, and I do believe the electorate have sent a message to the government in Westminster rather than concentrating on local issues.

In my opinion Graham Jones should not resign.

andrewb 02-05-2008 08:35
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
I just wonder how well they'd do without the blatant lies in their leaflets about council tax!

Margaret Pilkington 02-05-2008 08:37
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
No Graham Jones should not resign....he is a hard working councillor who has the best interests of the ward he serves, in mind.
We would do well to have many more councillors like him....then maybe we could have the kind of town we could be proud of.

blazey 02-05-2008 08:38
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 570306)
No Graham Jones should not resign....he is a hard working councillor who has the best interests of the ward he serves, in mind.
We would do well to have many more councillors like him....then maybe we could have the kind of town we could be proud of.
I think you have missed the point, Cyfr isn't saying shoul he resign as a councillor, he is asking whether he should resign as the local labour leader, which is an entirely different matter.

Margaret Pilkington 02-05-2008 08:38
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Cyfr, all political parties are reliant on manipulation of figures......they do not, however, call them lies....they call it 'spin'.

andrewb 02-05-2008 08:39
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Again, this thread is not about him resigning as councillor. Could a mod please make this more clear as people seem to be getting confused.

He got elected last night again by the electorate of his ward (well 26% of them!), nobody is calling for him to resign after he's been elected!

andrewb 02-05-2008 08:40
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 570308)
Cyfr, all political parties are reliant on manipulation of figures......they do not, however, call them lies....they call it 'spin'.
The leaflet had lies. The twisting of figures was very distasteful and dishonest, but bits of the leaflet were completely WRONG.

Margaret Pilkington 02-05-2008 08:41
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
No....I take the point, but if he is a good councillor then surely he is just as good a Labour leader aa PB is a Conservative Leader....and I do not believe that PB hasn't stretched the truth on very many occasions and he hasn't resigned.

Margaret Pilkington 02-05-2008 08:42
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Lies, Fibs, Untruths, Spin....they all mean the same thing.

andrewb 02-05-2008 08:43
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 570314)
Lies, Fibs, Untruths, Spin....they all mean the same thing.
Spin doesn't incorrectly state something. It simply twists its meaning.

blazey 02-05-2008 08:43
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 570312)
No....I take the point, but if he is a good councillor then surely he is just as good a Labour leader aa PB is a Conservative Leader....and I do not believe that PB hasn't stretched the truth on very many occasions and he hasn't resigned.
Thats made your own point more clear, but when you say No and then talk about his role as a councillor in your reasoning it doesn't really make much sense :p

I agree with you though completely. I don't understand why anyone would think he should resign, I think he's done a decent job at both roles.

Who would you recommend take his place Cyfr?

onlyme 02-05-2008 08:44
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
[quote=Cyfr;570310]Again, this thread is not about him resigning as councillor. Could a mod please make this more clear as people seem to be getting confused.

quote]

Is that not your job, seeing as you created the thread???

andrewb 02-05-2008 08:45
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazey (Post 570316)
Thats made your own point more clear, but when you say No and then talk about his role as a councillor in your reasoning it doesn't really make much sense :p

I agree with you though completely. I don't understand why anyone would think he should resign, I think he's done a decent job at both roles.

Who would you recommend take his place Cyfr?
A moderator labour member who doesn't hate the opposition. Somebody with some competence when it comes to understanding figures!

I'm sure Gayle would be up to it ;)

andrewb 02-05-2008 08:45
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
[quote=onlyme;570318]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 570310)
Again, this thread is not about him resigning as councillor. Could a mod please make this more clear as people seem to be getting confused.

quote]

Is that not your job, seeing as you created the thread???
I can't change the original post or I would...

blazey 02-05-2008 08:47
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 570319)
A moderator labour member who doesn't hate the opposition. Somebody with some competence when it comes to understanding figures!

I'm sure Gayle would be up to it ;)
Maybe you could do it, only thing you'd be lacking from what I gather from your perception of yourself is being a member of labour. Pretty sure you could fix that though :)

garinda 02-05-2008 08:48
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 570305)
I just wonder how well they'd do without the blatant lies in their leaflets about council tax!
You may disagree with how the figures were arrived at, but using the findings from a national newspaper, a famously Tory newspaper, is not lieing.

If the Daily Telegraph had used the same calculations, and had named Hyndburn to be one of the ten cheapest places for council tax, you can rest assured the local Conservatives would have had the information blazened across all their election paphlets.

You are starting to come across as petty and vindictive, something David Cameron is supposed to be against. Didn't he say he would concentrate on his own party's policies, rather than attacking the opposition?

Maybe it's time you did the same, while you still have a leg to stand on.;)

Margaret Pilkington 02-05-2008 08:50
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazey (Post 570316)
Thats made your own point more clear, but when you say No and then talk about his role as a councillor in your reasoning it doesn't really make much sense :p

I agree with you though completely. I don't understand why anyone would think he should resign, I think he's done a decent job at both roles.

Who would you recommend take his place Cyfr?
OK, so maybe in context of the question it didn't seem to make sense....but my justification was that in respect of his electors he is doing a good job......and I'm not sure who decides who should be leader of the labour group...but I bet it isn't the folk who recognise GJ for what he does that is positive, and ALL politicians use information to their own ends.

blazey 02-05-2008 08:51
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 570323)
You are starting to come across as petty and vindictive, something David Cameron is supposed to be against. Didn't he say he would concentrate on his own party's policies, rather than attacking the opposition?

Maybe it's time you did the same, while you still have a leg to stand on.;)
I'll second that!

andrewb 02-05-2008 08:51
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 570323)
You may disagree with how the figures were arrived at, but using the findings from a national newspaper, a famously Tory newspaper, is not lieing.

If the Daily Telegraph had used the same calculations, and had named Hyndburn to be one of the ten cheapest places for council tax, you can rest assured the local Conservatives would have had the information blazened across all their election paphlets.

You are starting to come across as petty and vindictive, something David Cameron is supposed to be against. Didn't he say he would concentrate on his owm party's policies, rather than attacking the opposition?

Maybe it's time you did the same, while you still have a leg to stand on.;)
If the Conservatives had done that I'd have made my views known the same way I have about Labour doing it.

Facts are they date the information march 2008 inferring that the 'expensive council' rubbish is even up to date. It's back from 2007 and the recent figures don't even mention Hyndburn in the top 10 most expensive.

Got their dates completely wrong, not spin, just completely incorrect.

garinda 02-05-2008 09:03
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 570327)
If the Conservatives had done that I'd have made my views known the same way I have about Labour doing it.

Facts are they date the information march 2008 inferring that the 'expensive council' rubbish is even up to date. It's back from 2007 and the recent figures don't even mention Hyndburn in the top 10 most expensive.

Got their dates completely wrong, not spin, just completely incorrect.
If a mistake has been made as to when the Daily Telegraph last published the statement that Hyndburn had the highest council tax in the country, I'm sure that will be investigated.

That does not mean they lied about the findings though.

andrewb 02-05-2008 09:09
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Too right!

jaysay 02-05-2008 09:33
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Good morning campers, what a wonderful day it is today:D
Should Graham Jones resign as Leader of the Labour Group asks Cyfr, well after giving it about 2 seconds thought I have voted NO:eek: You may ask why? Well why would I want to get rid of a political asset, if Labour got rid of our Graham then they may just replace him with someone who has half an idea what their doing, instead of a chap making a great impression of running about like a headless chicken only interested in scoring cheap politicl points over PB. So Cyfr you leave our Graham alone he'll do for me and long may he reign:rolleyes:

andrewb 02-05-2008 09:49
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
You have a very salient point there Jaysay! It is indeed damaging for Labour to keep him. Comes across as a typical politician in other threads where he simply refuses to answer questions.

cashman 02-05-2008 09:56
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
in a word No, this is just another example of a narrow minded childlike view of how life should be your way.:(

andrewb 02-05-2008 09:59
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
I voted no is that not the way you want it to be cashman?

andrewb 02-05-2008 10:30
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Oh and you can hardly call others on being narrow minded!

jaysay 02-05-2008 10:30
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 570352)
in a word No, this is just another example of a narrow minded childlike view of how life should be your way.:(
Have to disagree cashy, every time JG is on here he is only interested in attacking Britcliffe, if he is interviewed in the local press he only attacks Britcliffe, the man has a pathological hatred for Tories, but whats more the people out there can see this. it may go down well a Party meetings, but it doesn't impress the public. I was talking to a friend only this week who is a life long Labour supporter, we don't usally talk politics, cuze its pointless neither of use will change. This week however he just said he wasn't voting, for the first time in his life. I asked why? the answer was "that lot down London are more Tory than Thatcher, and this clown who's Labour Leader here is only interested in slagging Britcliffe off, so I'll go straight to the pub on Thursday and sod the polling station. I can asure you cashy if Labour had taken control last night Cllr Jones would have been on here giving Cyfr and myself some amighty stick, so when someone like Graham loses at the polls (as in party leader, not himself as I believe he retained his seat) then I do not apologies for having a dig. I have always been of the oppinion that in politics if you give it out you have to be ready to take it as well, if you can't as the old saying goes cashy "If you can't stand the heat kep ot of the kitchen":D

g jones 02-05-2008 13:38
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
I was brought up not to tell lies so I resent your comments. The Daily Telegraph piece was used (as published by the DT) in response to a Conservative view that we were a low tax Council.

I am sick of the squabbling, lies, deceit. I don't really want to spend my life around these people to be honest. My mates, football traveling are my life. I do work hard here, I tell the truth even when I am to blame. People in Peel know that. I am not here to play the game, I am here to end the game playing and everyone around me knows that.

Scrutinizing issues on leaflets
I believe is important. Because people begin to blacken my name as we are al the same. We all have a responsibility to be honest.

Lies Lies Lies on Labour leaflets... where??? I don't tell lies. If something is wrong not only do I apologize but I feel guilty about it.

This is what get's Councillors a bad name because if Conservatives are doing it, then people believe I and my colleagues are doing it.

On every Tory leaflet it said Labour will introduce Car Parking Charges.
FACT we have never discussed the matter as a group, and individually most Labour Councillors are opposed to it.

On Every Tory Leaflet it said Labour's £2m black hole.
FACT no-one lost £2m. It was a first quarter deficit of 450k in 2003-2004 (A Tory year).
FACT Labour's one year 2002-2003 the books balanced and were signed of by all 35 councillors as balanced and correct by vote in Full Council.

On Every Tory Leaflet it claimed credit for building two new Health Centres.
FACT The PCT built them, financed them, occupy them.

Last year the Conservative Leaflet said Labour would introduce a £200 Rubbish Tax.
FACT The Council does not have the systems to implement and collate that sort of data, on the wagons, at the depot, in waste services and it is totally incapable of linking into Council Tax. Our officers say there is no way HBC can implement it. Those running the Council should know this.
FACT We are opposed to Rubbish Taxes and told the Conservatives this many times before their leaflet.

Finally, anyone with an open mind who has the opportunity to judge Labour Councillors and Tory Councillors in Hyndburn for themselves (at a meeting for eg.) comes away suddenly realising the degree to which Labour Councillors are honest and genuine, and the awe at how rotten most Conservatives are. I ask people to see for themselves and make their own mind up.

jaysay 02-05-2008 14:20
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 570436)
I was brought up not to tell lies so I resent your comments. The Daily Telegraph piece was used (as published by the DT) in response to a Conservative view that we were a low tax Council.

I am sick of the squabbling, lies, deceit. I don't really want to spend my life around these people to be honest. My mates, football traveling are my life. I do work hard here, I tell the truth even when I am to blame. People in Peel know that. I am not here to play the game, I am here to end the game playing and everyone around me knows that.

Scrutinizing issues on leaflets
I believe is important. Because people begin to blacken my name as we are al the same. We all have a responsibility to be honest.

Lies Lies Lies on Labour leaflets... where??? I don't tell lies. If something is wrong not only do I apologize but I feel guilty about it.

This is what get's Councillors a bad name because if Conservatives are doing it, then people believe I and my colleagues are doing it.

On every Tory leaflet it said Labour will introduce Car Parking Charges.
FACT we have never discussed the matter as a group, and individually most Labour Councillors are opposed to it.

On Every Tory Leaflet it said Labour's £2m black hole.
FACT no-one lost £2m. It was a first quarter deficit of 450k in 2003-2004 (A Tory year).
FACT Labour's one year 2002-2003 the books balanced and were signed of by all 35 councillors as balanced and correct by vote in Full Council.

On Every Tory Leaflet it claimed credit for building two new Health Centres.
FACT The PCT built them, financed them, occupy them.

Last year the Conservative Leaflet said Labour would introduce a £200 Rubbish Tax.
FACT The Council does not have the systems to implement and collate that sort of data, on the wagons, at the depot, in waste services and it is totally incapable of linking into Council Tax. Our officers say there is no way HBC can implement it. Those running the Council should know this.
FACT We are opposed to Rubbish Taxes and told the Conservatives this many times before their leaflet.

Finally, anyone with an open mind who has the opportunity to judge Labour Councillors and Tory Councillors in Hyndburn for themselves (at a meeting for eg.) comes away suddenly realising the degree to which Labour Councillors are honest and genuine, and the awe at how rotten most Conservatives are. I ask people to see for themselves and make their own mind up.
Well hello Graham, I suppose you have got to defend your abject failure some how. The Rubbish Tax was muted by your mates down in Westminster, I now you like to distance yourselves from them, but its all the same firm. I would ask you to tell Brian Walmsley to his face he's a rotten councillor or for that matter Jean Lockwood, just because they choose to stand for the Conservatives doesn't give you the right libel them in that way. I have always gone on record saying how I respect a lot of the old Labour Councillors, such as Len Dickinson, Jack Grime, Ken Curtise, and Bill Pinder, these people were genuine people, unlike you, as your just irritating poitical bigot. Even then I'm not saying you don't work for those who elect you, but nobody goes into politics without a wish to make a differance, irrispective of whether they are Tory, Labour, Lib/dem or for that matter the Monster Ravin Loony Party. I have a feeling that Labour under for stewardship is going nowhere very fast, infact its going backwards, your trouble is Graham you talk to much, meaningless words, and when all you do is continually slag of others enmass, your not doing yourself or your Party any favours. By the way I'm seeing Brian later today I'll tell him you have something to say to him, the lucky thing for you is that he's not 20 years younger

onlyme 02-05-2008 14:58
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Erm, forgive me for not playing the game, but would it not be better to promote the benefits rather than purely slag off the opposition.

He said this, she said that, has the world of politics been reduced to playground squabbles?

emamum 02-05-2008 15:31
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
i know absolutely nothing about politics... all i know is that mr Jones is a member of accyweb just like anyone else and shouldn't be subjected to personal attacks no matter what his job is.

jaysay 02-05-2008 15:54
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by emamum23 (Post 570479)
i know absolutely nothing about politics... all i know is that mr Jones is a member of accyweb just like anyone else and shouldn't be subjected to personal attacks no matter what his job is.
Yes emamum, but that does not give him the right to slag other people off either. For my part it wouldn't bother me if poitics were never mentioned on here again, but when this guy has a go at people just because they have different views to his and in fact calls them rotten councillors I am not going to sit her and let him get away with it, one of those rotten councillors is a good friend of mine and three times a councillor Jones could ever hope to be, and I'm not talking about PB here either:mad:

lettie 02-05-2008 15:55
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 570283)
Also the reason you haven't seen your conservative councillor is that you don't have one. They're both labour.
No they're not, Fisher was down as conservative in our area and to be honest, I've never seen or heard of him.

andrewb 02-05-2008 16:02
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lettie (Post 570499)
No they're not, Fisher was down as conservative in our area and to be honest, I've never seen or heard of him.
He was a candidate yes, I thought you said councillor never mind my mistake.

jaysay 02-05-2008 16:08
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lettie (Post 570499)
No they're not, Fisher was down as conservative in our area and to be honest, I've never seen or heard of him.
I'm not trying to be pedantic lettie, but Fisher was a candidate not a councillor your councillors are Bernard Dawson, and Graham Jones both Labour, and you did say councillors in your original post

andrewb 02-05-2008 16:11
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 570436)

Scrutinizing issues on leaflets
I believe is important. Because people begin to blacken my name as we are al the same. We all have a responsibility to be honest.

Lies Lies Lies on Labour leaflets... where??? I don't tell lies. If something is wrong not only do I apologize but I feel guilty about it.

This is what get's Councillors a bad name because if Conservatives are doing it, then people believe I and my colleagues are doing it.

Finally, anyone with an open mind who has the opportunity to judge Labour Councillors and Tory Councillors in Hyndburn for themselves (at a meeting for eg.) comes away suddenly realising the degree to which Labour Councillors are honest and genuine, and the awe at how rotten most Conservatives are. I ask people to see for themselves and make their own mind up.
Lets go for some simple questions:

1. What date do you source the 'most expensive council' stuff in the leaflets?

2. What date was the figure in the telegraph?

3. Do you understand why the figure itself is flawed because of the way its worked out? I'd prefer a response that dealt with the issue not a "Well its in the telegraph" escape goat.

I am absolutely open to persuasion, I just want a satisfactory answer.

lettie 02-05-2008 16:29
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 570505)
I'm not trying to be pedantic lettie, but Fisher was a candidate not a councillor your councillors are Bernard Dawson, and Graham Jones both Labour, and you did say councillors in your original post
Of course you're being pedantic Jaysay, but I will let you off. :D I meant candidate but unfortunately, as my original post was first thing this morning, and I lose the ability to think after a 12 hour night shift, I got my words fuddled..:)

Neil 02-05-2008 16:43
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Thats the funny thing about candidates, once the election is over most of them disappear until the next election.

Gayle 02-05-2008 16:51
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 570531)
Thats the funny thing about candidates, once the election is over most of them disappear until the next election.
Well, some do! ;)

lancsdave 02-05-2008 16:54
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 570531)
Thats the funny thing about candidates, once the election is over most of them disappear until the next election.
Some of them don't even appear before an election :rolleyes:

Neil 02-05-2008 17:34
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 570536)
Well, some do! ;)
Yes but you have recovered from the illness now :rolleyes::D

derekgas 02-05-2008 17:42
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Had all this squabbling been last week, I have a feeling that the lib dems may have faired better!

garinda 02-05-2008 17:51
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 570498)
Yes emamum, but that does not give him the right to slag other people off either.
It's just you that has that particular right?

jaysay 02-05-2008 18:04
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lettie (Post 570521)
Of course you're being pedantic Jaysay, but I will let you off. :D I meant candidate but unfortunately, as my original post was first thing this morning, and I lose the ability to think after a 12 hour night shift, I got my words fuddled..:)
Your lucky lettie I don't need a 12 hour night shift to make my words come out fuddled 12 hours sleep does it for me:D

jaysay 02-05-2008 18:08
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 570579)
It's just you that has that particular right?
I only have a go at him if he comes on here being is usual bigoted self, although I couldn't resist just a little bit of fun on this thread:D

garinda 02-05-2008 18:11
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 570586)
I only have a go at him if he comes on here being is usual bigoted self, although I couldn't resist just a little bit of fun on this thread:D
As long as that's straight.

You can attack people, and if you think anyone elses does the same thing, you'll attack them back.

It's nice to see the rules of the playground are alive and well.

jaysay 02-05-2008 18:27
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 570587)
As long as that's straight.

You can attack people, and if you think anyone elses does the same thing, you'll attack them back.

It's nice to see the rules of the playground are alive and well.
Oh come Rindi a bit kettle calling the pan there mate, personally I'd rather not attack anybody its not really my nature:rolleyes: I'd sooner just have a laugh and a bit of fun, you see life's to short, or its begning to feel that way:D

garinda 02-05-2008 18:34
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 570601)
Oh come Rindi a bit kettle calling the pan there mate, personally I'd rather not attack anybody its not really my nature:rolleyes: I'd sooner just have a laugh and a bit of fun, you see life's to short, or its begning to feel that way:D
Oh, I forgot, besides it being alright for you to attack other members, but not for them to do the same, as you pointed out in the local press this forum is full of 'vile' attacks against Peter Britcliffe.

You never did get back, when asked to provide proof of your claims, for us all to judge for ourselves on that one.:rolleyes:

Lilly 02-05-2008 20:29
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
All turnouts were low, there is a lot of apathy round these parts but 26% was an abysmal turnout in Peel ward. The lowest of the lot in fact.

I don't know why this was.

Reading these posts it appears that he is very well thought of in Peel so why did all those who think Graham Jones is such a wonderful asset not go and vote for him? :confused:

I don't think he should resign. What's there to resign over? I'm just wondering why so few voted in Peel. It stood out a very low turnout even by today's standards.

lettie 03-05-2008 07:44
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilly (Post 570666)


Reading these posts it appears that he is very well thought of in Peel so why did all those who think Graham Jones is such a wonderful asset not go and vote for him? :confused:
.

Me and Sparks did go and vote for him. I think that the reason there were not more voters in Peel is largely due to the amount of chavs who couldn't give a toss around here. The same chavs are the reason why we have had problems, the very problems that Graham is trying to resolve.:)

blazey 03-05-2008 08:43
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lettie (Post 570811)
Me and Sparks did go and vote for him. I think that the reason there were not more voters in Peel is largely due to the amount of chavs who couldn't give a toss around here. The same chavs are the reason why we have had problems, the very problems that Graham is trying to resolve.:)
You can't blame chavs for all of life's problems when most of their problems are caused by politicians in the first place. Labour have done absolutely nothing to remedy the poverty in Britain, so if you would've expected them to vote for graham jones anyway then people need a reality check.

That isn't just aimed at you lettie, just a response to what you are saying.

And just to add on to that, I am not saying the Conservative Party would do a better job, hence why many people haven't bothered voting at all.

andrewb 03-05-2008 09:44
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
It's about more than poverty though, much more, but lets not get into that here. :p

Wynonie Harris 03-05-2008 09:51
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quite right, Blazey, people condemn these poor, misunderstood youths far too quickly, without realising the misery of their poverty-stricken lives. Why some of them can't even afford an ipod or a second pair of nike trainers. Go hood a hoodie, I say!

lancsdave 03-05-2008 09:54
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 570833)
Quite right, Blazey, people condemn these poor, misunderstood youths far too quickly, without realising the misery of their poverty-stricken lives. Why some of them can't even afford an ipod or a second pair of nike trainers. Go hood a hoodie, I say!
It's even more disgraceful how the government stops them going to work and makes them live on benefits. No wonder they are living in poverty.

jaysay 03-05-2008 10:05
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 570609)
Oh, I forgot, besides it being alright for you to attack other members, but not for them to do the same, as you pointed out in the local press this forum is full of 'vile' attacks against Peter Britcliffe.

You never did get back, when asked to provide proof of your claims, for us all to judge for ourselves on that one.:rolleyes:
If you remember I was having a little trouble with my account on here at the time, but all you have to do is have a look at the thread Britcliffe weekly or monthly whatever it is, the name of the thread is enough for me, as well as your pet nick name for him. When you take into conciderasion that PB has been a councillor for 25 years has never had a majority less than a hundred on a straight or 3 way fight, then he is doing something right for the people who elect him. Okay there will always be people who dont like Peter, most for political reasons. The person hasn't been born who is liked by everybody and for that matter never will be.

garinda 03-05-2008 10:26
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 570836)
If you remember I was having a little trouble with my account on here at the time, but all you have to do is have a look at the thread Britcliffe weekly or monthly whatever it is, the name of the thread is enough for me, as well as your pet nick name for him. When you take into conciderasion that PB has been a councillor for 25 years has never had a majority less than a hundred on a straight or 3 way fight, then he is doing something right for the people who elect him. Okay there will always be people who dont like Peter, most for political reasons. The person hasn't been born who is liked by everybody and for that matter never will be.
Eventually. Two years late, but nevermind.

So you think this thread was a 'vile attack' on Britcliffe?

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...hly-18823.html

vile (vhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/imacr.gifl)
adj. vil·er, vil·est 1. Loathsome; disgusting: vile language.
2. Unpleasant or objectionable: vile weather. See Synonyms at offensive.
3. a. Contemptibly low in worth or account; second-rate.
b. Of mean or low condition.

4. Miserably poor and degrading; wretched: a vile existence.
5. Morally depraved; ignoble or wicked: a vile conspiracy

Whether it is or isn't is open to debate, although it was nominated for an Accy Web Oscar, and didn't it result in him being investigated for using his office for electioneering purposes, charges that were later found to be untrue?

cashman 03-05-2008 10:32
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
whatever he is, n i am certainly not a fan, he had the good grace to wish his "Council Wife":D Jean Battle well after many years of opposition, n as she is a lifelong friend,that sits very well with cashy, Brownie Points to Britcliffe.:D;)

garinda 03-05-2008 10:33
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 570836)
Okay there will always be people who dont like Peter, most for political reasons.
Although I've criticised some, not all, of his policies on this forum, I've also said that people who I know that also know Peter Britcliffe like him. I've also posted on here that he was loved by his pupils when he was teaching, and I've rebuked people that posted untrue things about his family.

Hardly vile, and as you yourself have said many times, if you can't stand the heat perhaps it's time to get out of the political kitchen.;)

andrewb 03-05-2008 10:36
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
I like to turn the heat up to 6 when I'm in the pan.

jaysay 03-05-2008 10:48
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 570849)
Although I've criticised some, not all, of his policies on this forum, I've also said that people who I know that also know Peter Britcliffe like him. I've also posted on here that he was loved by his pupils when he was teaching, and I've rebuked people that posted untrue things about his family.

Hardly vile, and as you yourself have said many times, if you can't stand the heat perhaps it's time to get out of the political kitchen.;)
I can stand the heat Rindi, but I won't be going back in to the kitchen any time soon:eek: that is unless somebody tempts me that is:D

garinda 03-05-2008 10:54
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 570860)
I can stand the heat Rindi, but I won't be going back in to the kitchen any time soon:eek: that is unless somebody tempts me that is:D
I didn't mean you, I meant Peter Britcliffe.

That delicate flower, who apparently needs defending from vile attacks.

I admire anyone who stands for public office, but if they put themselves out there, they should be able to stand on their own to feet when it comes to criticism.

andrewb 03-05-2008 10:55
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
I think Britcliffe can stand on his own two feet when criticised. Only have to read the council minutes for that one!

garinda 03-05-2008 10:58
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 570864)
I think Britcliffe can stand on his own two feat
Two feat?

Is that the two de''feats he suffered when he stood for M.P. in Hyndburn?:D

andrewb 03-05-2008 10:59
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
No Idea what you're talking about rindi. ;) What feat?

garinda 03-05-2008 11:01
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 570867)
No Idea what you're talking about rindi. ;) What feat?
The two 'feat' you mentioned in the post before last.;)

We'll have to start calling you Bubbles, as you apparently have the memory span of a goldfish.:D

andrewb 03-05-2008 11:06
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Looks like its spelt feet to me ;)

garinda 03-05-2008 11:11
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 570871)
Looks like its spelt feet to me ;)

I should have waited five minutes, so you couldn't edit that stinker.:rolleyes:

andrewb 03-05-2008 11:15
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Haha bad luck gary bad luck! :D

accyman 03-05-2008 12:00
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 570864)
I think Britcliffe can stand on his own two feat when criticised. Only have to read the council minutes for that one!

easily fixed garinda:D

garinda 03-05-2008 16:49
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 570873)
Haha bad luck gary bad luck! :D
Yes but the trick is to edit a post within a minute so it doesn't show, otherwise it notes that you've edited it, as it has in your's.;)

I've only been told this, as having never made a mistake I wouldn't know.:rolleyes::D

lindsay ormerod 03-05-2008 23:08
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lettie (Post 570811)
Me and Sparks did go and vote for him. I think that the reason there were not more voters in Peel is largely due to the amount of chavs who couldn't give a toss around here. The same chavs are the reason why we have had problems, the very problems that Graham is trying to resolve.:)
Gotta agree there, I am in Peel and voted for Graham , it's an uphill battle with scum round here and at least Graham shows his face and does what he can.

Royboy39 03-05-2008 23:12
Re: Should Graham Jones resign?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 571022)
I've only been told this, as having never made a mistake I wouldn't know.:rolleyes::D
In a pigs eye :o

Bonnyboy 03-05-2008 23:33
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindsay ormerod (Post 571144)
Gotta agree there, I am in Peel and voted for Graham , it's an uphill battle with scum round here and at least Graham shows his face and does what he can.
Spot on, I can only agree. Graham cannot be faulted for the time and effort he has put into this ward

garinda 03-05-2008 23:46
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnyboy (Post 571159)
Spot on, I can only agree. Graham cannot be faulted for the time and effort he has put into this ward
Those on here who live in his ward seem very happy with Graham.

Plus it seems the overwhelming majority of us on here don't agree with think the frankly ludicrous suggestion that he should resign.

BERNADETTE 03-05-2008 23:51
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 571166)
Those on here who live in his ward seem very happy with Graham.

Plus it seems the overwhelming majority of us on here don't agree with think the frankly ludicrous suggestion that he should resign.
To be quite honest with you I am a bit lost as to why the question was posed in the first place. I have read all the hype about made up figures but if there was any truth in it sure it would have been found by now:confused:

Bonnyboy 03-05-2008 23:57
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 571166)
Those on here who live in his ward seem very happy with Graham.

Plus it seems the overwhelming majority of us on here don't agree with think the frankly ludicrous suggestion that he should resign.
Well, the notion that the man should resign because of failure, perceived or otherwise, really goes against the grain for me, hence my reluctance to respond one way or another in this thread . That and the cackling of a few Tory hyenas.

I’m sure we were all taught as youngsters to keep trying to reach our goals in life ( what’s that story about the little spider that wouldn’t give in ? ) I’m sure Graham will continue on his chosen path.

Royboy39 03-05-2008 23:59
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 571166)
Those on here who live in his ward seem very happy with Graham.

Plus it seems the overwhelming majority of us on here don't agree with think the frankly ludicrous suggestion that he should resign.
I think it the first time ever I have agreed with the Prince of Clowns.
Stick in there Graham....and go where your convictions take you.
Good Luck

andrewb 04-05-2008 10:50
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 571170)
To be quite honest with you I am a bit lost as to why the question was posed in the first place. I have read all the hype about made up figures but if there was any truth in it sure it would have been found by now:confused:
We are still waiting for Graham to reply and confirm my questions..

andrewb 04-05-2008 10:52
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 571166)
Those on here who live in his ward seem very happy with Graham.

Plus it seems the overwhelming majority of us on here don't agree with think the frankly ludicrous suggestion that he should resign.
It almost feels like you're getting it wrong on purpose. You know the question has nothing to do with his ward.

garinda 04-05-2008 10:58
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 571275)
It almost feels like you're getting it wrong on purpose. You know the question has nothing to do with his ward.
What was the question?

I'm begining to lose the will to live.

I thought you asked us, the members of the forum if we thought he should resign?

The vast majority think not.

Seems a fairly straightforward reponse.

If you just wanted to know whether Graham Jones thinks he himself should resign, you could have just messaged him directly, and saved us all the bother of taking part in your poll.

BERNADETTE 04-05-2008 11:52
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 571272)
We are still waiting for Graham to reply and confirm my questions..
So on that basis you raise a thread asking if he should resign?

jaysay 04-05-2008 12:01
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
I think Cyfr meant as Leader of the Labour Group, not as a councillor:rolleyes:

andrewb 04-05-2008 12:02
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 571282)
What was the question?

I'm begining to lose the will to live.

I thought you asked us, the members of the forum if we thought he should resign?

The vast majority think not.

Seems a fairly straightforward reponse.

If you just wanted to know whether Graham Jones thinks he himself should resign, you could have just messaged him directly, and saved us all the bother of taking part in your poll.
It was if he should resign as labour group leader not councillor as your posts seem to suggest.

andrewb 04-05-2008 12:04
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 571311)
So on that basis you raise a thread asking if he should resign?
No it's based on Labour losses and deceitful leafleting as a whole. If people can't deliver for their party questions are normally asked, hence all the questions about Gordon Brown.

I happened to vote no remember. I am simply asking the question.

Lilly 04-05-2008 12:05
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 571314)
I think Cyfr meant as Leader of the Labour Group, not as a councillor:rolleyes:
I was just going to say that, Jaysay.

As I understand it, Cyfr was not accusing Graham of not being a hardworking councillor for Peel ward.

I think he was suggesting that poor election results for Labour cast a shadow of doubt on Graham's suitability to be the group leader.

I may be wrong but that's what I took Cyfr to mean.

g jones 04-05-2008 12:15
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilly (Post 570666)
All turnouts were low, there is a lot of apathy round these parts but 26% was an abysmal turnout in Peel ward. The lowest of the lot in fact.

I don't know why this was.

Reading these posts it appears that he is very well thought of in Peel so why did all those who think Graham Jones is such a wonderful asset not go and vote for him? :confused:

I don't think he should resign. What's there to resign over? I'm just wondering why so few voted in Peel. It stood out a very low turnout even by today's standards.
Several reasons. 12% of properties are empty. So if the average turnout should be 1 in 3 voters, that's 4%.

Landlords who have a high turnover of people. 17% of properties are landlorded and the turnout from these is less than 5%. So another 5% of voters gone there.

Thirdly, the turnout in the general is high. Some voters who vote Labour are aware that historically it will still be Labour and whilst they want to vote, and intend to, it's not an urgent high priority it would be if they knew their ward was marginal.

Fourthly. In marginals a lot of time is spent knocking on doors even on the day so many more people are aware/reminded.

If the third and fourth where applied to Peel (maybe if we had a byelection there for eg) I think the vote would have been around 750/800-250/300. Nearer the normal. It is made a big issue of but I think the people in Peel are no different in voting habits to anywhere else.

Margaret Pilkington 04-05-2008 12:16
Re: Should Graham Jones resign? 'labour group leader'
 
I think the issue of local politics is overshadowed by National politics.......and the two are(in my opinion, not that that counts for much) totally different.
What have the recent failings of the Labour party got to do with Graham Jones siutability as a local Labour Leader?

It seems his suitability hinges on the believability of figures which the local labour group have put in some of their literature.
I don't believe a word that comes out of a politicians mouth......I wait for actions....to me, these are how politicians should be judged.
The backlash against Labour locally has a lot do do with the policies of the Labour party in a national sense.
If you think that the current council have done a good job of looking after local issues.....have alook around the town centre and then decide.
We have a plethora of empty shops......a refurbishment of Broadway that cost God knows how much......and it is already looking tired and shabby after quite a short period of time.
Actions...thats what impresses me...and I have to say I'm not impressed.


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