Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Moves to lower the time limit on abortion from 24 weeks have been rejected by MPs at the end of a high-charged debate on controversial social legislation.


During the Commons debate, the proposer of a 20-week limit, former nurse Ms Dorries, told MPs how she had witnessed a "botched" termination while working on a ward.
"A little boy was aborted into a cardboard bed pan which was thrust into my arms," she said.
"As I stood and looked in that cardboard bed pan this little boy was gasping, through mucous and amniotic fluid for his breath and I stood with him in a sluice, in my arms in a bed pan, for seven minutes while he gasped for his breath and a botched abortion, which became a live birth, became a death seven minutes later.
"And I knew at that moment, while I stood with that little boy in my arms that one day I would have the opportunity to stand and defend babies like him, because what I thought we were committing that day was murder."

I for one am against abortions, but in the end its always the womens right to do whatever she wants.

At 24 weeks a baby has been known to survive.........so why did they have to reject lowering the limit to 20 weeks?

At 24 weeks a baby must feel pain, therefore doesnt that baby have the right, the human right to live?

I for one am totally disgusted, but there probably is a few people out there who disagree:(

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

good

the only thing lowering the limit would acheive would be more unwanted kids

sounds callous but if a woman is seeking an abortion its pretty clear the child isnt wanted


i know someone who had an abortion and because of bank holidays and actualy getting an appointment the abortion was actualy done just after the dead line that is currently in place

if they want to lower the limit they should make sure that there is a fast procedure in place to fast track those who want abortions get them in time

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Before abortion was permitted by law, there were 'back street' abortionists who butchered women at ALL stages of pregnancy.
The present law will never be ideal, and will lead to some 'murders', but it is better than the lawless butchering we had before.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

just out of curiosity at what point do you consider the termination not murder

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Most abortions result in the delivery of a dead embryo/child.
The ones which result in a live birth do happen (as the news article states)

I think that lowering the limit would result in resurrecting back street abortions.

The present 24 weeks is the 'lesser of two evils'

PS how do you feel about the morning after pill?

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

24 weeks is 6 months!
why does it take someone so long to decide to have one?

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

I was born at 6 months

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

its not always the decsion to abort that is late but the nhs's sysyem that is slow

if a woman realises she is pregnant late on it can be murder getting a doctors appointment nevermind a hospital appointment in time

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

I see it like this:

There are two rooms. In one a 24 week old baby is surviving aided by science and not the mother who will grow up to lead a wonderful life.

In the other room is a 24 week baby, who could survive without its mothers aid, being destroyed.

In parliament many of the people against reducing the limit made it into an argument about pro life and pro choice. I think this is drasticly wrong. I believe in giving a woman the right to choose, but only up until a certain point. At the point where the child can survive without the aid of its mother, and can feel pain, I think it has its own right to survive.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

I do agree with abortion at it is the mothers choice but shouldnt be left to that time that if the baby can survive then it should. Whatever happened to giving your child up for adoption??? Surely if you dont want that baby so much then consider those who are less fortunate and cannot have a child themselves. Would agree with lowering the limit but if that limit has passed then the mother should be talked towards adoption rather than murder

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its always been a minefield this subject, whilst its infinately better than the backstreet job, agree with cyfr about a point where its a no-no, that point MUST be decided on by the medical profession IMHO. theres always a case fer em were the mothers life is in danger though, like i said - a Minefield.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

WHAT A LOAD OF BOLLOX!!!

some women have no choice but to have a termination...
what happens if its life threatening?
what if the woman has been raped?


i am neither for nor against abortion

i think its upto the individual but what i do agree with is lowering the time where they can have an abortion, like panther said in the first post a baby can still be born alive at 20 weeks, i think they should take it to at least 18 weeks, my friends daughter had to deliver her baby at 23 weeks, unfortunately she was still born but all her features and everything where in place, if she hadnt of already been dead would she have lived from 23 weeks? who knows

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Through no fault of my own, I have 3 children that were not planned, (and would not be without them), I am against abortion for any reason other than severe deformity or possible threat of life, and do not see abortion as a remedy for carelessness, either through lack of control or discipline.

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then the child isnt wanted then is duhhhh

oh and by the way if the woman has been raped it dosnt leave her with NO choice but to have an abortion she could still have the child and some rape victims actualy do so your argument has already been proven to be the pointless crap that it is on that score alone and also there are plenty of pro life nutters that would gladly see a rape victim be forced to keep a child rather than abort it

personaly i think a woman who is made pregnant through rape and wants an abortion should be put to the top of the waiting list so please the next time you feel like shouting your gob off think about what your shouting your gob off about first

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has anyone noticed the prolife advert at the top of the page?

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Personally I don't agree with abortion but can see that at times they are neccessary. I think the time limit should be lowered but the decision has been made not to.
What really puzzles me is why in this day and age we have so many unwanted pregnancies. For goodness sake birth control is free, so why don't people use it?:confused: Before anybody has a go I know that sometimes birth control fails and that in the case of rape the woman might not have been using any. It just seems to me that some people are to lazy to go and get adequate protection:mad:
In the majority of cases a woman will know she is pregnant long before twenty four weeks and therefore the time limit won't matter because she will be sorted long before then!!!

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Of course abortion should be considered as wrong, but only, if we lived in a perfect Society.

The people mainly caught short and pregnant are young girls that, if we all think back being heavily hormone driven have experimented and found it to be a costly mistake, what are their choices?

Force themselves and the bloke into marriage.

Become a single mother and an unwanted statistic.

Learn from their over-enthusiastic mistake, and be more careful in future.

Anyone of the above is not a good scenario, but change the law so that the, (possibly panicking girl, feeling alone and in a desperate state), goes to a back street abortionist, that has to be the worst choice to put any woman through.

I feel sure that any woman going through an induced termination, (a miscarriage I believe, is also classed as abortion, [search for a thread of Letties], a harsh choice of words!) would feel some regret but how much better is it that the girl goes somewhere that her welfare is made a priority?

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Absolutely agree Less.

Would like to see a few statistics on this, have found some such as:-

88% of abortions in England and Wales were under 13 weeks.
Only 2% 23/24 weeks.
Scotland much higher for under 13 weeks.

These were 2005, sure if I googled more could find recent figures.

I suspect that the 2% were split into a few catagories, such as women who discovered they had some type of illness that could be life threatening if the pregnancy had proceeded/abnormal foetus, but some, I would think were young women who were too scared to admit to themselves that this is what was happening to them and tried to bury their heads in the sand before it became apparent. The two former assumptions would be my decision for keeping it at 24 weeks.

There have been quite a few cases of premature babies surviving this period, and the tales of the foetus being alive and then waiting until death occured are quite horrendous.

Think down to 22 weeks may have been sensible, apart from that, have not objection to abortion.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

If an abortion goes wrong and the baby is born alive what happens to them?

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

From what I have heard in discussions today, Emamum, the paediatrician (only one who can instruct this)/nurses are not allowed to do anything... just let it go, chances are that success rate would be very low anyway.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Oh dear its one of those threads where nobody is right or everyone is right in there own opinion! I think they should drop the deadline of abortions but not stop them. It has been said that a baby can feel pain at 24 weeks (maybe less). I think there are very few people who dont know they are pregnant well before this time, if you are the victim of rape wouldnt you take the after pill? at the time you are getting tested for any infections you cold have caught. If you dont want children and you have unprotected sex them you must use contraceptives there is no excuse they are free! and if you go unprotected then like i said the morning after pill is always available.

If people were educated to the max there would be less chance of unwanted pregnancys.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Most likely it will die, but as I've already mentioned, this isn't a perfect world!

You obviously seem against abortion, fair enough, but your beliefs and that of others like you should not be allowed to force one terrified young lady into the butchery that used to be performed by back street abortionists.

If you believe it to be wrong, then your choice is not to have one, if someone else considers it to be necessary, then your beliefs shouldn't force her into the hands of criminals!

Please feel free not to have an abortion that is your right, but the poor unfortunate female forced by circumstances doesn't need your added weight pushed onto their own guilt!:o

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

I suspect that lots of rape victims are advised and do take the after morning pill Mummiboo.
There again, lots of rape victims sometimes are too ashamed to go to the authorities until it is too late for this facility.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

What did Greg vote for? He's a good catholic boy - did he abstain? Was he under the party whip? Will he answer?

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

I think there is a good chance he will answer, Tealeaf, he told us how he voted in this one:-
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...yos-39553.html

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Twas a free vote, no party whip T, far as i'm aware, he came online n stated how he voted in the first2.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

He voted 'Aye' tealeaf, which I presume meant 'Yes' to lower it.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

your quite right Less, i had a threatened miscarriage when i was 8 weeks pregnant with Reece, some years later i was at the doctors with Reece and i was looking at my notes on the computer screen and it said 'threatened abortion at 8 weeks' i was mortified to read that and i mentioned it to my doctor and he said 'no it doesnt mean you threatened to have an abortion it simply means you had a threatened miscarriage'

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Greg Pope voted to reduce it to 20 weeks and then 22 weeks.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

do you mean weeks darling? ;) :D

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

lol... i thought he was making a joke lol

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Haha yes. I've corrected it, well spotted. :D

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its the change of name Cyfr, its messed yer head up ;)

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Is he Tealeaf ? Does appear to be a pattern of religious ethical/emotive voting here though.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Try being on an abortion ward when you have just miscarried a baby that you wanted so much!! and even the doctors comes round and say " ahh yes, Abortion at 12 weeks gone " ...... Now that really hurts. :mad::mad:

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

When i first started nursing I looked after a woman who tried to abort an unwanted pregnancy. Abortion was legal at the time, but her doctor would not refer her for a legal one so she tried the do it yourself method and she almost died.
As Less rightly observes, in a perfect world there would be no need of abortion....but it is not a perfect world.
No-one will force an abortion on you, but is the right of the woman in question to choose....and it cannot be an easy choice, remember it has to be lived with for the whole of her life.
It is too easy to generalise and to judge....there but for the grace of God!

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Slinky, of course you are right....that does hurt, but you must remember that Doctors are using the word in it's medical sense.
I have worked on such a ward and I know that it isn't easy.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

I understand the terminology. I Thought it was awful that, as a women that lost my baby that I wanted so much, and all around me were women that got to choose whether to have theirs or not. I couldn't wait to get off that ward. :(

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

It has always been that way, and to be honest it isn't right that you knew what another patient was having done...the rules of confidentiality are supposed to be upheld to prevent this kind of thing.
You both needed treatment, and you both received treatment......that you should know the details of another patients treatment is what was wrong.

By the way, I am not suggesting that you knowing what someone else was having done was any fault of yours.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Well, the little bitch at the side of me didn't look too bothered about telling the whole ward about her 2nd termination :mad: God I could have snotted that cow.:mad:

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

You always get one or two like that, but to be honest they were in the minority.


And although Parliament has thrown out the bill to bring down the time limit for Termination of pregnancy, many consultants operate their own time limit which is well below 24 weeks.
The termination of a pregnancy at 20 weeks is unpleasant for all concerned.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

There must be a few like her then, many years ago my sister-in-law was in for exploratory surgery to find out why she was having problems conceiving. She was heartbroken because there were women in having their third or fourth abortion and not caring who knew it. Some women view it as a form of birth control which it isn't.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

i know its not the same but i had a friend that had an abortion around the same time i lost my first baby and even asked me to go with her... we dont talk any more!

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

I feel for your sister-in-law, because I know how I felt. Then to make matters worse, after my D&C, they made me stay over night because I didn't get taken down til 6pm :( All I wanted to do was get away from that ward and go home to my family and Ginger, just to go home to where people really cared how I was feeling and not just going through the motions.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Hmmmmm I know how that feels too. One of my family members had got herself pregnant by a married man while on holiday abroad!!! Lets just say, the baby was never born :( and that happened the same time I had my miscarriage!!! Life is so cruel sometimes.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington;579843]You always get one or two like that, but to be honest they were in the minority.


And although Parliament has thrown out the bill to bring down the time limit for Termination of pregnancy, many consultants operate their own time limit which is well below 24 weeks.
QUOTE]

True Margaret, and not so easy to get at 24 weeks .. have to go through a difficult process of two doctors approval, etc., not exactly given on demand.

Slinky . .. my daughter also worked on a ward like this.. probably yours Margaret, and she did not approve of the fact that there were cases of requested and natural abortions next to each other, particularly as some young girls appeared to be using it as a contraception. I do not quite believe this .. think they were just ill-educated ... or just bravado to hide a frightened spirit.

As Margaret has said, these women are in the minority and not fair to bring this into the discussion as lots of requested abortions are necessary and for the best for all concerned.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

The best thing would be to have seperate wards, I know it isn't always possible but would be a better way:(

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Oh sorry didn't realise I had gone off topic........ Oh wait I haven't :rolleyes: Still on topic of abortions.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Well, you did a little Slinky .. tended to paint all girls who had abortions with the same brush.

The thread is not really about requested abortions in general, just about whether it should be reduced to the length of weeks legally allowed.

Your point is taken on board, and feel for what you experienced, 'cause as I said ... had to listen to daughter being upset by the situation of where patients are placed in a ward. Maybe the situation has changed now ?

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Well I was giving my point of view and personal experience from another angle

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I know sweetheart, and must have been very distressing after losing a child that was wanted ... x

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

The thing about having separate wards would do a disservice to those who needed to have their pregnancy terminated for justifiable grounds, as they would not be able to keep this fact private.
It would soon become common knowledge that it was a ward purely for abortions.....and can you imagine having to work on that ward all the time?

Termination of pregnancy is never easy. It is very emotive and we can all say what we would do, but none of us truly know until we are put into a situation that we have not foreseen.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Yes I didn't put my brain into gear before posting, I can see that it would soon be quite obvious that the ward just dealt in abortions.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Yes I understand that Margaret. To be honest, hadn't really thought about it that way. I feel sorry for those people that HAVE to have a abortion due to medical reasons of mother or baby, that is very sad. What I disagree with is someone getting pregnant BY ACCIDENT, then using it as contraception. Yes I agree that in this day and age there shouldn't be any need for BACK STREET ABORTIONS. But then again, in this day and age, there really shouldn't be un planned pregnancies. Condoms, pill, morning after pill, coil jeeeez I could go on. But hey, these things happen. But no, I do not agree with a termination being carried out at 20+ weeks, and I pitty the poor doctors and nurses that have to deal with it too.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

It's Ok Bernie...when I was Ward Sister this was often put to me, and most women understood the reasons why it wasn't really possible to do this.
Nowadays many of the terminations of pregnancy are done medically and mean just a very brief hospital stay of only a few hours.
All terminations are a tragedy for the woman concerned and often her family too.
I really do believe that terminating a pregnancy swops one problem for a series of other problems....and after 25 years working in Womens health I think i have enough experience to judge.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

when do you have your first scan now? i had mine aroound 16 wks i think... (7 years ago now lol)

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

I had a mini scan around 12 weeks with both of my boys at Accy vic. Then 18 weeks, 22 weeks and if my mind serves correct, 32 weeks was the final one.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

I agree entirely. I have delivered enough contraceptive lectures to young girls who said they didn't know about sex education....I didn't believe them when they told me that the condom broke......and some of them i have told them that i didn't believe they used contraception.....but unplanned pregnancy is like a road accident...you never think it will happen to YOU.
As I have said in an earlier post....the consultants usually police their own practice with limits much lower than the legal one of 24 weeks.

It isn't a perfect world and there will always be the sad fact that some women will get pregnant and be unable to cope......I certainly would not like to see women resorting to using a knitting needle to try to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy....and dying themselves as a result.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

i only had one scan and i know ty was already kicking when i had it.
if the abortion is because of severe disability then obviously it cant be done until after the scan.
does it depend on the hospital how many scans and at how many weeks?.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

There again, putting all the responsibility/suffering on us women, surely up to the 'fellas to check this out too. Feel there should be some law to inflict some punishment/fine/responsibilty/withdrawal of sexual pleasures for a while on the father too, wonder how many abortions we would get then. :(

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where are the fella's when it has been a one night stand?? probably no where to be seen. I for one would NEVER leave it up to a fella to protect me from getting pregnant, I can do that all by myself.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

How can it be through no fault of your own. Did you go away for the weekend and just happened to leave a little bottle of something behind :confused:

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No matter how you look at it ,,,"IT IS MURDER" that very first post says it all....at 24 weeks its a little person.....:dummy::dummy2::dummy2:
Some women now treat abortion like going to have a tooth out

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

You keep saying it's a woman's choice, is it not a mans choice too, and how have they got that choice, it isn't a natural choice, it's a man made choice.
They do have the choice though, but it's shame the baby hasn't, many would have chose to be aborted if they knew what lives they were going to get.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

i sent him karma asking if somone put his willy in for him , you know like some kind of help the aged scheme :D

it was good karma:)

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

i think the abortion limit should be raised to 25 years because from what i have seen around my estate alone would strongly suggest it should be;)

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Just thought I'd better letter you know exactly how I voted and what the outcomes were.

Day two of the Human Fertilisation & Embryology Bill related to two issues: whether doctors should take into account a child’s need for a father before deciding whether a woman should be given fertility treatment; and amendments relating to abortion limits (the current limit is 24 weeks).

I opposed the ‘need for a father’ amendments on the grounds that it would put into statute unnecessary discrimination against single women and lesbian couples. The two amendments were defeated by 292 votes to 217 and by 290 to 222.

On reducing abortion limits I voted:

Against 12 weeks (defeated by 393 votes to 71 votes)

Against 16 weeks (defeated by 387 to 84)

For 20 weeks (defeated by 332 to 190)

Against compulsory counselling (defeated by 309 to 173)

For 22 weeks (defeated by 304 to 233).

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Thank you Greg for yet again letting us know how you voted, I do feel that even if I don't agree with the way you voted that your honesty says alot for the type of person you are.

So far however, as long this post may be, we have not had one lady that actually went through an 'induced termination', coming on and putting forward their views and their reasons for such a harsh and life changing decision.

Is this because they are frightened of the scorn that may come their way from the 'I have never done anything wrong', brigade? Or is it just that although they did, have an abortion, (for whatever legitimate reason), they, feel ashamed of themselves?

I personally think it's a side of the argument/discussion that is sadly lacking from this thread.

Can we, (accyweb) allow someone to come on and give us the truth about why, what and wherefore without stigmatising such a brave Lady?

It is easy for us to theorise, but nobody so far has said, yes I lived in a desperate situation, I went through hell and the only decision was......

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

i wouldnt have a problem with listening to somebody tell us about it, i know someone who last monday had one, i wouldnt judge anyone for having one, like i said, i'm neither for nor against it

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

i could just imagine some of the red karma comments that would get left for any poor sod that was naive enough to post their story on here:rolleyes:

not sayin all aw members would do it but lets face it theres some nasty pieces of work that would think it funny to take a pop at somone

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

If that was the case it would say more about the person giving than any person brave enough to put themselves forward for such treatment!

:(

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

You must have a really low opinion of the members on here if you think that they would start giving negative karma. I think most members would be sympathetic towards any woman who has undergone this procedure.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

I have not gone through this procedure myself, but have nursed many women who have....and their stories are very sad.....but they deserve their privacy....for every single day of their lives they have to live with their own private feelings of sadness and (for many) guilt...and wishing that circumstances could have been different, or that they could turn back the clock and do things differently.
I would certainly not judge someone for doing what they thought was best at the time.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

yet another member who should actualy read what is written before making a stupid comments

and if you disagree check out the earlier posts where somone named a woman who has had an abortion behind her boyfriends back , luckily for the girl her name has now been removed, for all we know that girls partner may be violent and not appreciate finding out about this through a public forum

so yes there are some aw members that i think are capable of doing nasty things

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

I can understand that the religious would be opposed to abortion, altho St. Thomas Aquinas writing on in utero baptism was of the opinion that a foetus was not human, did not have a soul, until it entered the world. What troubles me is that politicians to the right of the political spectrum are the ones that seem opposed to a woman's right of access to a safe medical procedure. This is a divisive issue; but it concerns me that it divides along political lines .... and that those who oppose abortion are also the ones who oppose gay marriage, publically funded health care, a social safety net etc. Not surprising that on this continent women tend to vote for parties in the center, or to the left of center. The Republican party in the States is constantly making noises about restricting a woman's right to abortion, or taking it away completely, even tho it is obvious that a woman's rights are guaranteed under both the ninth and the fourteenth ammendments to the constitution. What also troubles me is that the politicians who claim that the sanctity of human life is paramount, are also those who would go to war at the drop of a helmet, and the one's who gut social programs that would help a single mother if she chooses to take her pregnancy to term. Maybe it is time for politicans to butt out and let the decision be made by the woman and her doctor. Every case is unique, and should be dealth with as such by the ones concerned.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Think we have lost sight of what this thread was about .. not the question of abortion, but the limit of weeks it should be allowed.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Maybe not ... maybe those who seek a lower limit are the ones that would like to limit it to "under no circumstances." And these are probably the same ones who oppose support for single mothers. I suppose one could call them the "Serves the slut right" brigade. I do see a bias against women ... I don't think anyone has seen fit to mention the male part of the equation; the burden seems to be placed on the female. Not much equality of treatment here.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

I am anti-abortion on principle but I will not get into a pro/con discussion here. The point at issue is the lowering of foetal age to 22 weeks and what worries me is the question of whether a foetus can feel pain. As a baby (note the different terminology when it's a wanted pregnancy) born at 24 weeks gestation can survive, with luck and good nursing, I assume it must be able to feel pain. The same child, while still in the womb, must also feel the same pain as its sensors are at a similar stage of development. Is it right to inflict pain on, not to say kill, a viable child?

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Excuse me sir !! I did actually mention the 'male part of the equation' even suggesting that sexual rights should be withdrawn for a while (not quite sure how this could be achieved though ... :D)

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My mother used to tell me to tie a knot it...........I tried but alas>;)

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In other words, failed miserably Royboy.. endorses my point at the highest level .. :)

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Sorry ... must have missed it .... :mad:

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The highest level would be the brain ... I think we are talking about a lower level ... Unfortunately this lower "thing" has a way of bypassing the higher functions, as in "he thinks with his ..." :D

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You speak for yourself......or is that what you have just done?:p

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Ah, well Eric ... at the end of the day .. seems to be the end of the matter for now as regards the law.

In conclusion, as expressed by some of our members here, we have to keep plugging at more education as to birth control .. but how much more can we give ? As Less says will always be the young people who are caught on the hop through experiment, etc., so let's give them our full support.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Of course Eric ... sooner the sexes realise that male/female have completely different characteristics the better, and not try to change them to our way of thinking. This could indeed be the first step to avoiding pregnancy. ;)

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

As long as we take those different characteristics as not only those which are hard wired in the brain but also those which result from socialization and socio-economic status I would have to agree. For example, it is not surprizing to anyone who gives it some thought that the highest incidence of "unwanted" or "unplanned" pregnancy in Canada is among First Nations people, particularly those on reserves. Whatever, you make a lot of sense; even tho I don't agree completely; however, 100% agreement is so very rare:D

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Would never require a male to agree 100% with me ... how boring .. :rolleyes:

My final words .. love to all the ladies who have had to go through an abortion at whatever stage of pregnancy . xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

It is not always young people that get caught kate!! ....... I know a women of 42 years old that got caught Pregnant, totally unplanned. She had a termination, and I was there to listen to her every step of the way. I was the second person to know that she was pregnant, and still to this day there is only 3 people that know, and that includes her Husband and son.

I listened to her reasons of why it would not be possible for her to carry on the pregnancy, and I watched her agonise over it for 2 weeks. And, I was there for weeks after when she just wanted to get things off her chest. She had her reasons, same as everyone else that goes through it.

I do not agree with abortions, when I say I, I mean for me...... I don't ever want more children ( hence Gingers vasectomy ) but if it happened, I could not have an abortion. BUT, what other people do is their own Business, and as long as they are not hurting mine!! get on with it.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

You are correct Slinky .. apologise for pointing out young people. I got caught at age 39 .. merely because I had become over-confident. What at this age ? moi ? no way !!... well hek !.. pregnancy ?! .. not gonna' happen to me now is it... doh !

Even though, considered myself wise to all methods of birth control .. still 'appened.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

I think the same had happened to my friend to be honest.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

I had my first scan at 12 weeks at Accy Vic.

This was just to confirm that the baby was alive and to inform me how many I was carrying (just the one, thank goodness :D)

My second scan was at 20 weeks in Blackburn and it is at this scan that all the baby's measurements are taken and when any deformities can be noticed by the sonographer.

If the abortion limit was 20 or 22 weeks how do you deal with a situation where a woman is told at her 20 week scan that the baby is badly deformed/disabled? As has been mentioned, sometimes you may be 22 weeks pregnant by the time you have this scan so if you get bad news at the scan and are offered an abortion you will need time to think about it before you go ahead.

How would this work if the abortion limit was 20/22 weeks? :confused:

You wouldn't be able to have one, it would be too late and no-one has the right to tell someone that they have to keep a badly disabled child.

Some people will want to, others couldn't cope.

I think 24 weeks is the right limit but only in these circumstances.

I don't agree with late abortions just because the child has a cleft palate or other minor abnormality or because the mother has changed her mind and doesn't want a perfectly healthy baby.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

If a pregnancy is found to be abnormal, then there is no legal age limit......termination of that pregnancy would be offered regardless of the gestational age.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

There was a programme on lowering the abortion limits a while ago, in this programme a professor said he strongly believes a baby can feel pain in the womb as you can see the child grimace and smile and suck the thumb and swallow fluid. I agree with him how could a baby not feel pain if it has a functioning brain a heartbeat it could feel pain when born so why not at 24 weeks or earlier. When i lost my baby at 11 weeks pregnant and had to go into hospital, before i went in i was looking on the internet trying to find out more about what i was going to go through i found alot about abortion as what i had to go through was what would be the same procedure without a D&C and i was absolutly horrified by what i found, out how it was carried out at quite a small foetus upwards i cant go into detail of the picture and descriptions i saw but i was horrified and for this reason i would never bring myself to have this done! Also the same as slinky i found it very hard when i had lost a baby i wanted soo badly and there were people out there just throwing them away! (how could they were my thought) but in reality people do. i dont agree nor disagree just think that the time should be lowered so at least that baby wont feel the hugely painful procedure.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Aaaaah right. Thanks Margaret, I didn't know that.

So the 20/22 week limit, had it been brought in, wouldn't have made a difference to those who had abnormal pregnancies? They could have still had an abortion even if they were over that limit?

Were they just proposing a new limit for those having an abortion of healthy babies then?

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

I personally think the time limit should be lowered, except for medical reasons were the baby will not have a decent quality of life.

I read this yesterday in the Daily Mail, which is quite interesting. (Interesting isn't the right word but at the moment can't think of a word to describe what i really want to say.)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...life-odds.html

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Yes, the lowering of the time limit was for the 'social' abortion.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

I saw this article too. In the vast majority of cases this baby would not have survived. The story noted in the Mail was in the USA....I'm not sure how they do things over there.
Paediatricians will not attempt resus on a baby whose eyelids are fused as this indicates a gestation of less then 22 weeks.
And before you all start giving me bad Karma......it is for a good reason that resus is not attempted......the chances of survival at this gestational age is very small....and suppose they took a baby like this into special care(even thought its chances were slim) and then a baby was born who DID have a chance of survival, but there was not intensive care cot available because the tiny baby had taken the last cot.

In my experience, the babies who were born before the legal age of viability were kept warm and cuddled by the parents until the inevitable happened.

Re: Abortion limit....Rejected!
 

Even the terminology speaks volumes!!