Accrington Web - Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

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g jones

01-06-2008 16:12

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancsdave (Post 585244)

You can tell from the various political debates on here people don't vote for people they vote for the party. You can stick a red or blue rosette on a chimpanzee and it would get voted in.

Which reminds me, when are the town hall tea-parties ? :)

Churchill's remarks about democracy come to mind. But there is worse...

The independents aren't free thinking mavericks by and large. Just people who find it enjoyable to disagree with everything all the time. They have the biggest ego's and pervert decisions for self gain, importance on a higher scale than your average party candidate who commits themselves to working with others.

Not a snipe at all independents, just a personal honest observation.

g jones

01-06-2008 16:18

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 585245)

I have to agree with you on that Gayle. I think both parties struggle to find the right people (or any at all) to stand for Councillor. I also think you can't expect people to run the Council for nothing. I also wonder how someone who is working full time would be able to be Leader of the Council. If a Councillor is voted in as leader and they already have a job it is a big risk leaving that job to be the leader. Not an easy position to be in in my opinion.

Maybe Graham could advise us how he plans to manage work, home, kids and being the Leader of the Council if he ever finds himself in that position.

I think, but am often wrong, that Peter was part time before he retired/stopped working. I have no idea if he left work because of his Council duties but it would not surprise me.

I think this is good point. Not to get political, just to say I support Dave Mason's comments, PB excludes others and takes the role full time ++. Often Portfolio holders hear their comments for the first time when PB has sent them to the press.

I have planned all along to do things differently for two reasons. To share things around, to get everyone involved to lighten the load considerably. Secondly it will make for a better Borough. In two years as leader people are happy (in the Labour Group) that things have improved considerably towards a unified, coherent, team work approach.

There is also the issue of meetings/structure. If they were constructed better, and in the evenings, that would help. People are excluded at the moment so the leader has to do more work, a lot more.

g jones

01-06-2008 16:23

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 585314)

Well PB seems to be doing a little better than his Labour predecessors and thats according to the Audit Commision

PB has been bailed out by massive Government investment. That's a fact. If we had been rate capped we'd be in the same boat as the Daily Mirror Pension Fund. Nothing to do with PB at all.

He voted against the new management restructure (you know Mr Farrer, the one Labour brought in because your lot had bankrupted the Council - were you criticised Labour's redundancy programme and golden handshakes), and voted to instead to keep the last lot, the old failed management in post. And now the new management team have made strides forward your claiming all the glory.

g jones

01-06-2008 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 585312)

In that case it would be bloody well totally irresponcible putting g.jones in charge, according to reports he can't even manage his own party let allone the council, only last week he had a toe to toe with one of his ex-councillors and because he didn't get his own way he walked out, real leadership, not

Posted via Mobile Device

g jones

01-06-2008 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 585312)

No. That is rubbish. Business had finished. The press said it looked like punch and judy. Cllr M Pritchard and PB talking about how standards are falling. The two bigger culprits doing a pre organised double act. One day when there is room to park policy I will tell the whole unpleasant truth about MP antics. Lest to say he went off on one because he didn't hear what he wanted to hear and because he didn't listen do what was said in the first place. He has taken the Tory whip hence his double act. I quietly said what was quoted and also left quietly. Because the press are excluded from pink papers, i leave to talk to them outside. How long before PB does pink papers first to try and stop the press talking privately to me ?

The press at PBs request over-wrote up the story which had no truth in its headline. No one there accepts the story as true.

So keep trying Mr Farrer. As Wilson said "you keep telling lies about us and I'll keep telling the truth about you"

PB used this in full council and credited it to McMillan. Funny.

andrewb

01-06-2008 17:48

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 585387)

So keep trying Mr Farrer. As Wilson said "you keep telling lies about us and I'll keep telling the truth about you"

PB used this in full council and credited it to McMillan. Funny.

No, what is funny is that you are taking the mick out of somebody attributing a quote to the wrong person, when you got it wrong yourself.

It was actually Adlai Stevenson, a Democratic presidential candidate in 1952.

For you to use the quote, well its rich, I would expect nothing less from a 'Whiter than White' Labour party.

lancsdave

01-06-2008 18:36

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Is it any wonder people in this country are sick to death of politics and the number of voters constantly on the decline. Apart from the broken promises so often issued at voting time, this thread is typical of how people in politics behave. My dad is bigger than your dad, yeah well my mum is bigger than your mum. We have children who call each other names less than some of you lot :(

g jones

01-06-2008 20:19

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancsdave (Post 585425)

I think it would be helpful all round if you tried to come to some to these meetings.

g jones

01-06-2008 20:32

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 585416)

It was made famous by Harold Wilson. Not made famous my Harold McMillan. Adlai Stevenson did say it on 1952. Of course that meant nothing here till Wilson said it. William Randolph Hearst in 1906 said it Charles Hughes in the first person.

Andrew, don't be smarty pants. We can all search the internet.

Lilly

01-06-2008 20:35

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

To get back to the original issue, what would happen if these allegations in Central ward turned out to be true? :confused:

Royboy39

01-06-2008 21:22

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilly (Post 585513)

To get back to the original issue, what would happen if these allegations in Central ward turned out to be true? :confused:

Slap on the wrist....and told to get a proper job....;)

andrewb

01-06-2008 23:23

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 585509)

Andrew, don't be smarty pants. We can all search the internet.

I'm sure you do, some of us use our heads.

cashman

01-06-2008 23:25

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 585608)

I'm sure you do, some of us use our heads.

thats rich coming from you.:rolleyes:

andrewb

02-06-2008 10:01

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Having now read the article it is nice to see our public officials acting responsibly and not accusing electoral fraud publicly before an investigation is finished.

Gayle

02-06-2008 10:09

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

What article?

garinda

02-06-2008 10:14

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 585716)

What article?

http://www.accringtonobserver.co.uk/...rig_complaints

Lilly

02-06-2008 15:10

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 585716)

What article?

The one we've been discussing for the last 8 pages. :rolleyes:

Well, we started off discussing it then got onto all sorts of other things.

Gayle

02-06-2008 17:48

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

I realise that - just wondered how we'd got to page 8 and Andrew had only just read the article so thought he was talking about something else.

mani	02-06-2008 18:10

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

*LMAO* @ this thread

i find it honestly amazing t ali dared to complain about this. cause if everyone was being honest - they're all criminals for doing so. i'm not gonna go emailing evidence to anyone as this crap will happen no matter what - you think it sorted out bradford after the convictions there? still happens there...

its an infestation within the asian community. like in pakistan leaders pay ppl to vote for them this is similar - corruption within itself. if i was gonna be totally honest - just count the non asian folks votes and thats your winner.

this is turnin more nad more bitter and personal. attacks are more personal than business.

all the asian candidates know what dutty lil tricks they all get upto. no one shud b proud of their glass house.

jaysay

02-06-2008 18:45

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by mani (Post 585967)

Thanks for that Mani, it takes guts to say things like that, the thing is its been going on for years, by all parties not just one, as you rightly put those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones

garinda

02-06-2008 19:16

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

If there is corruption going on, whichever parties are involved, then we should at least try to stamp it out, and prosecute those involved.

I'm proud of the democracy we have, and would hate to live in a society that just accepted cheats.

A good post Mani, but if I had evidence of fraud it'd be quickly winging it's way to the police.

mani	02-06-2008 19:22

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

the evidence is out there - its gettin it to talk thats hard *L*

cashman

02-06-2008 19:23

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

sfunny,just been out with the dog n was talking to a guy, who has just corroberated manis story, n i only just read that.:(

jaysay

03-06-2008 04:10

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

I'm afraid Central Ward, for the past few years, has been somewhat of an enigma, and will remain so, but what ever happens, the rules set down for elections must be obeyed by all parties, but its always going to be he said, she said, claim and counter claim with the real truth being somewhere in the middle

mani	03-06-2008 05:40

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

I've actually just read the article in the observer and i thought it was funnier than a good episode of sarcasm from the south park boys.

Quote:

Bullying, allegedly backed up by picture evidence, at polling stations in Hannah Street and Blackburn Road.

how is a picture going to prove that bullying was happening?? is there a fist threatened at the person? or does it capture the voters tears and the look of fear??

there's always been for the past 3/4 elections anyway people stood around the polling station on blackburn road. always. and of all parties. when labour won it last there was loads stood outside doin exactly the same thing the conservatives were doin here. should those be investigated too? when i was walking past i heard some ladies shout out put the cross in the 2nd box at general no body's i think we should investigate the intimdation from them too. then again i do find asian women quite intimidating generally.

Quote:

Eighty four per cent of all postal votes were returned when only 70 per cent were expected.

they want people to use the vote and when they do show an interest they complain about it?!

Quote:

Proxy votes cast on behalf of people who have moved to Pakistan and are no longer eligible to vote.

That is impossible to prove. before he died my father would often spend long periods abroad but it was still considered he was a resident here rather than pakistan. alot of the old folks who have done their duties so to speak often spend 6 months here and 6 months there coming back when they want and when they want some heat fly off to pakistan. are they moving or merely on holiday?

Quote:

The council’s Labour group leader, Graham Jones, said: "There has clearly been a case of people in Central ward defrauding the electoral system and I think the result should be declared null and void."

Mr G jones - ur throwing rocks from your crystal domed house. a whisper in your ear. i wouldnt. if it isnt mr t ali's fingerprints on the evidence it sure is labour red.

jaysay

03-06-2008 09:10

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by mani (Post 586213)

I've actually just read the article in the observer and i thought it was funnier than a good episode of sarcasm from the south park boys.

how is a picture going to prove that bullying was happening?? is there a fist threatened at the person? or does it capture the voters tears and the look of fear??

there's always been for the past 3/4 elections anyway people stood around the polling station on blackburn road. always. and of all parties. when labour won it last there was loads stood outside doin exactly the same thing the conservatives were doin here. should those be investigated too? when i was walking past i heard some ladies shout out put the cross in the 2nd box at general no body's i think we should investigate the intimdation from them too. then again i do find asian women quite intimidating generally.

they want people to use the vote and when they do show an interest they complain about it?!

That is impossible to prove. before he died my father would often spend long periods abroad but it was still considered he was a resident here rather than pakistan. alot of the old folks who have done their duties so to speak often spend 6 months here and 6 months there coming back when they want and when they want some heat fly off to pakistan. are they moving or merely on holiday?

Mr G jones - ur throwing rocks from your crystal domed house. a whisper in your ear. i wouldnt. if it isnt mr t ali's fingerprints on the evidence it sure is labour red.

Nice one Mani, I think you have put everything in a nutshell

cashman

03-06-2008 10:16

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

whilst whats gone on is wrong (no question), its wrong to knock GJ for taking issue at it.(no question) how ever you dress things up its corruption (no question) this is a real can of worms n what GJ must take on board is it aint just one party (no question) anyone who is really bothered about democracy in local goverment, should also get off the pot n do some real digging, then n only then is a chance whats happening can be eradicated.:(

g jones

03-06-2008 21:03

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 586236)

Nice one Mani, I think you have put everything in a nutshell.

I think what you're saying is even a new low for you Mr Farrer. That crime is acceptable. It isn't.

And if Mr Ali's fingerprints are all over, then he too will face the law, as I told him in the Police station. All crimes should be reported.

claytonender

03-06-2008 21:29

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by mani (Post 586213)

there's always been for the past 3/4 elections anyway people stood around the polling station on blackburn road. always. and of all parties. when labour won it last there was loads stood outside doin exactly the same thing the conservatives were doin here. should those be investigated too? when i was walking past i heard some ladies shout out put the cross in the 2nd box at general no body's i think we should investigate the intimdation from them too. then again i do find asian women quite intimidating generally.

The last 4 elections to be held in Central Ward were:
in 2003 (when it was all postal)
in 2004 (when it was also all postal)
in 2007 -when the candidates were Mohammad Ayub (The Labour Party) and Mohammed Kazi Siddique (Conservative )
in 2008 - Tariq Ali (The Labour Party)Allah Dad (Conservative) and Ifty Khan (Liberal Democrat).

As the candidate's names appear in alphabetical order of surname on the ballot paper, at both the 2007 and 2008 elections it was the Conservative Candidate who was in the 2nd box on the ballot paper at both these elections. So if, as you are suggesting Mani, there were ladies shouting to put a cross against the 2nd box, then they were trying to get voters to vote for the Conservative candidate.

jaysay

04-06-2008 09:10

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 586681)

Nothing of the sort Jones, what I was saying basicly was he who is without sin cast the first stone, nothing more nothing less, Mani was only pionting out that your lot are as bad as anybody and everybody knows that, after all it was Tony Blair who was the first Primeminister in histor to be questions by the police over dodgy dalings, amen

andrewb

04-06-2008 10:42

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 586681)

I think what you're saying is even a new low for you Mr Farrer.

It however could never be as low as your personal attacks on Jaysay’s health at an Accringtonweb meet, while he was not there to defend himself. In fact a man I'm not sure you have even met.

What was it, that he was the "biggest burden on the welfare state". Well I for one am glad that the provisions are there for somebody who has worked hard all their life but fallen ill preventing them from carrying on that work. I am glad the NHS is there to stand in and help people who are quite seriously ill.

Wanting to challenge him to go private because his oxygen tank which keeps him alive is on the NHS? I have never seen such hatred for somebody because of their political orientation, which it clearly was, hence the political underlining of the attack. Any respect I might still have had is lost.

This is the definition of low Mr Graham Jones.

cashman

04-06-2008 14:37

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

oh ya mean like i lost all respect fer you,? but didn't discuss it on open forum, cos thats not the place, time you grew up cyfr.:(

Gayle

04-06-2008 15:47

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 586924)

It however could never be as low as your personal attacks on Jaysay’s health at an Accringtonweb meet, while he was not there to defend himself. In fact a man I'm not sure you have even met.

I'm pretty sure that Jaysay and GJones are both very well known to each other off this forum - the political landscape in Hyndburn is not huge!

jaysay

04-06-2008 15:55

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 587084)

I'm pretty sure that Jaysay and GJones are both very well known to each other off this forum - the political landscape in Hyndburn is not huge!

Never met met the guy, don't want to

jaysay

04-06-2008 16:30

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 586924)

I have been contemplating whether to comment on this post or not, but I feel I must. I can't really think that anybody in their right mind could be so crass, to make comment such as that, but as my old mum used to say what goes around comes around. Thanks Andrew for enlightening me on this subject, it only reenforces what I've been saying on here for months, that this guy just ain't wired up right

cashman

04-06-2008 16:38

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 587113)

don't honestly know if that was said, but don't think its right to take one side of a story, without getting the other, something i learnt many years ago. surprised at you.

MargaretR

04-06-2008 16:46

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

I'm not shocked by anything you two (Jaysay & G Jones) say at or about each other anymore. We can all see the mutual hatred.

...and we know now that AndrewB can't be discreet

jaysay

04-06-2008 17:03

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 587120)

don't honestly know if that was said, but don't think its right to take one side of a story, without getting the other, something i learnt many years ago. surprised at you.

The only thing that I thought cashy, was that Andrew wouldn't have put something on here that wasn't true, he might be young but he's far from stupid, no doubt jones will denigh it, but thats what he does

jaysay

04-06-2008 17:10

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 587128)

I'm not shocked by anything you two (Jaysay & G Jones) say at or about each other anymore. We can all see the mutual hatred.

...and we know now that AndrewB can't be discreet

Well Margaret that is obvious, but I can't ever think that I would ever say anything about any persons private life, politics are politics, but I have always drawn a line under attacking someones personal life, and I've had plenty of chances believe me, as for AndrewB being discreat well I'm glad he told me, at least I know the real Graham Jones

onlyme

04-06-2008 17:34

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Well, what a sad state of affairs. The fact that a post made regarding alleged vote rigging can end up with personal attacks and comments.

If this comments was actually made, then its unforgiveable, no matter where your political allegiances fall

cashman

04-06-2008 18:01

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by onlyme (Post 587165)

agree totally with yer comment, things like this should be aired privatly though, its pathetic.:(

katex

04-06-2008 18:30

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Could be the lad is practising the Art of Spin ... :rolleyes:

BERNADETTE

04-06-2008 19:07

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 587140)

If it was said it should never have been posted on a forum. If AndrewB had been so incensed by what was said he has had ample time to inform you by PM. I am disgusted at the way this thread has turned into a vendetta by a few of you.

cashman

04-06-2008 19:07

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex (Post 587204)

Could be the lad is practising the Art of Spin ... :rolleyes:

well if you choose to be diplomatic........

cashman

05-06-2008 08:30

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 587140)

The only thing that I thought cashy, was that Andrew wouldn't have put something on here that wasn't true, he might be young but he's far from stupid,

we will have to agree to disagree on that one jaysay.:)

g jones

05-06-2008 15:26

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 586924)

Complete lie. You'll make anything up to defend you silly little causes.

FACT I didn't speak to you beyond your stupid comments regarding miners. FACT After that I walked away from you.
FACT Cashman was there. In fact it was he that pulled you up for talking rubbish. I barely spoke with you.

I was asked about Mr Farrer, if I knew him, if I had met him (I have). His attacks on Labour. I stated quite clearly that he had been a significant beneficiary of the welfare state (not an issue), but i would have thought he would have had a better understanding, more appreciation or the need for a welfare state. With his personal experience I can't understand why he opposes Labour, Labour policies when he is able to judge at close what a huge benefit it can be. There was never any personal references/insults and no-one on here seems to be able to verify or confirm what are pathetic comments.

andrewb

05-06-2008 15:38

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 587651)

You were not talking directly to me about it.

FACT you said the things I posted. To deny it would be blatant lies. I don't however expect you have the honesty to admit to it. You're no better than those you accuse of telling lies in council now.

g jones

05-06-2008 15:38

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

and I would add;

Kim said to me lets move - he's a complete nutter, just out for trouble - you don't need it - so we did move away from Andrew.

andrewb

05-06-2008 15:40

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 587651)

I was asked about Mr Farrer, if I knew him, if I had met him (I have). His attacks on Labour. I stated quite clearly that he had been a significant beneficiary of the welfare state (not an issue), but i would have thought he would have had a better understanding, more appreciation or the need for a welfare state. With his personal experience I can't understand why he opposes Labour, Labour policies when he is able to judge at close what a huge benefit it can be. There was never any personal references/insults and no-one on here seems to be able to verify or confirm what are pathetic comments.

What a load of spin. Get me for libel if its not true. I know it is because I heard it myself.

MargaretR

05-06-2008 15:45

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Whether you heard it or misheard it, it should have not been repeated here

andrewb

05-06-2008 15:48

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 587658)

Whether you heard it or misheard it, it should have not been repeated here

Theres no doubt I didn't mishear. I think its right, people should know what a public figure is saying about people. I'm sure the Labour supporters would be only too happy for me to keep my mouth shut, but I know the same wouldn't be done if it was a Conservative saying these things, and too right, I wouldn't support ANYBODY who said them, no matter which party.

MargaretR

05-06-2008 15:51

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Heaven help us if your political qualifications land you a job in the Foreign Office!!!!
Discretion and Diplomacy - you sadly lack

lancsdave

05-06-2008 15:53

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Politics and eavesdropping must be a close second to religion in creating wars !!

cashman

05-06-2008 16:01

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 587659)

you pathetic little boy,its not about who supports who, its about discretion, n if GJ did say that, which i certainly did not hear, i would have been disgusted n said summat at the time, you obviously did not, so therefore that gives me grave doubt it was said.

andrewb

05-06-2008 16:04

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 587665)

I regret not pulling him up on it at the time. I should have done because I fundamentally disagreed with what he was saying. It was said no doubt about it, I wouldn't post lies about something like this.

onlyme

05-06-2008 16:31

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 587651)

I was asked about Mr Farrer, if I knew him, if I had met him (I have). His attacks on Labour. I stated quite clearly that he had been a significant beneficiary of the welfare state (not an issue), but i would have thought he would have had a better understanding, more appreciation or the need for a welfare state. With his personal experience I can't understand why he opposes Labour, Labour policies when he is able to judge at close what a huge benefit it can be. There was never any personal references/insults and no-one on here seems to be able to verify or confirm what are pathetic comments.

Did you actually tell every person there that they were a beneficiary of the welfare state, or purely him?

To be honest with you, Mr Jones, if you had said that to me, even in your words, I would have an issue with it. Unless you said exactly the same every person, that is a personal comment/reference.

To me, the higlighted statement could quite easily be misconstrued as spin on 'dole dosser' or ' sponger' or other less than pleasant names

The again, maybe it is just me

onlyme

05-06-2008 16:32

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

[quote=andrewb;587668]I regret not pulling him up on it at the time. I should have done because I fundamentally disagreed with what he was saying. It was said no doubt about it, I wouldn't post lies about something like this.[/quote

Whether its correct or not, you should have said something at the time, and it should never have been posted on a public post. If you had an issue with it, you could have pm'd the person in question, not waited for a time to do it publicly to cause the most trouble

jaysay

05-06-2008 16:40

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 587651)

So I benefit from the the wefare state, how would you know, only three people know my financial affairs Mr. Jones and your not one of them. I persons dealings with HBC is covere by the data protection act, the only way you are able to access my deatails legally is if you were dealing with a case on my behalf and I had given the necessary permission.:confused: For all you know I may have won the pools, or the lottery, or been left a fortune when my Father died, I would be very interested to hear your explanation, and whats more I have no reason to doubt Andrew. And how dare you even intimate that I am on depentant on the welfare state,it is none of your business what my personal finances are, and you as a councillor should know better.

Gayle

05-06-2008 17:13

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

Never met met the guy, don't want to

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 587651)

I was asked about Mr Farrer, if I knew him, if I had met him (I have).

Curious?:eek:

jaysay

05-06-2008 17:42

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 587714)

Curious?:eek:

I thought that Gayle, seeing I can't bring the occasion to mind I can only think that some one is telling porkies, and it aint me. I have only seen Mr. Jones once tha was 2 years ago during the election campaign, I went out to get a taxi and he was about 20 yards down the road with Colette, and that was to near for me:rolleyes:

claytonender

05-06-2008 17:52

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Jaysay

I do know that you do not enjoy the best of health.

There are other ways of benefitting from the Welfare State, other than to be in receipt of a monetary benefit. But am I sure that you will agree that you have benefitted (and are still benefiting) from the services of the NHS-which is part of the Wefare Sate - over the years.
Without wishing to labour a point (no pun intended), the Welfare State was created by a Labour government -would you have had the same help from a Conservative government. I know we all pay for the NHS in our taxes but it is free at the point of use.

garinda

05-06-2008 18:31

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

I really have nothing to say on this matter, except that political point scoring seems to have reached an all time low, and it disgusts me.:mad:

Gayle

05-06-2008 18:47

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 587775)

I really have nothing to say on this matter, except that political point scoring seems to have reached an all time low, and it disgusts me.:mad:

It's not even point 'scoring' because no one has done themselves any favours here - this is more like point 'losing'.

I want to state right here and now that I now consider myself to be of NO political party whatsoever and will plonk myself safe and sound back on the fence! I don't want to be associated with any of this!

onlyme

05-06-2008 19:06

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 587775)

I really have nothing to say on this matter, except that political point scoring seems to have reached an all time low, and it disgusts me.:mad:

Well said!

g jones

05-06-2008 21:06

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 587696)

You have at various times talked about your life. No problem. On here and openly to others. I am not here to talk about you or your circumstances personally. As a Labour person I support fundamentally the welfare state to help those in need. You get some who don't appreciate it and thrown it all back. I like to know why it is is no good or the Labour Party is no good in persuing a welfare state? It is not a trick question, nor is it personal.

And we have met, you just don't remember. You were right and I was wrong.

Royboy39

05-06-2008 21:10

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 587903)

Graham................as a non political bystander I wonder why you take this crap on board?

g jones

05-06-2008 21:24

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Thanks Roy, because only by discussing things openly will a better version of the truth come out. Not my version, but a better version, a better democracy, better decisions. And if no-one else is prepared to a put a foot forward, I will. I am last on the list of important things. Without clearing the air, politicians will go on telling porkies, filling their ego's and fooling the public (defrauding the the voting TGBOT). My time in politics has always been about ending this culture. Ring any of the other 12 Labour Councillors (or residents in Peel that know me) and see, of my time, if this is true. End of.

Gayle

05-06-2008 21:29

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Graham there is no such things as a 'better' version of the truth - nor can there be a worse version of the truth. There is the truth simple as that!

andrewb

05-06-2008 23:21

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 587910)

I am happy to tell the truth, I dont care what party people are from, it makes no difference who you are, or what your background is, I am happy to represent anyone. Would you like to support the truth, and support me for council?

cashman

05-06-2008 23:24

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 588001)

only if it fits with your version of it, n as for representing anyone, i feel sure most folk can see the depth now.:rolleyes:

BERNADETTE

05-06-2008 23:28

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 588001)

Just a couple of questions, if you were really so angry at what you say you heard why has it taken you all this time to say anything about it? Also why the need to air it on a public forum?? Well out of order IMHO

andrewb

05-06-2008 23:29

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 588003)

only if it fits with your version of it, n as for representing anyone, i feel sure most folk can see the depth now.:rolleyes:

There is truth, and truth. There can't be a 'version' of truth, that'd be a lie I'd guess. I don't support lies. I know I am a Conservative, but if they blatantly lied, I would call it, I would say it is wrong. If someone comes up to me and gives evidence of the local Conservatives being dishonest, I would happily, publicly, denounce them. No doubt about that, principles are more important than party allegiance, I'm sure you agree with that cashy.

cashman

05-06-2008 23:33

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

oh well if yer big on principals forget the locals, denounce the MEP.:rolleyes:

andrewb

05-06-2008 23:42

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 588011)

oh well if yer big on principals forget the locals, denounce the MEP.:rolleyes:

I already have in a pub earlier! But yes I completely agree with you. Its disgusting. Not acceptable. It is the reason for disillusion in Politics.

cashman

05-06-2008 23:58

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 588022)

I already have in a pub earlier! But yes I completely agree with you. Its disgusting. Not acceptable. It is the reason for disillusion in Politics.

its one of the many reasons why i and many others are disilluded with politics n aint meaning just one party, genuinly think its gone from bad to worse over last 25 yrs or so n all partys are guilty.:(

andrewb

06-06-2008 01:21

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 588043)

Yes certainly agree with you, and the voter turnout at recent elections backs it up. We need more transparency, and honesty in our system for people to become engaged again. It's all ok me believing in that, me enacting that, but I'm just an ordinary citizen, we need the parliamentarians from all parties to realise it.

mani	06-06-2008 03:30

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

all we need now are the jets, the sharks, the corleones, the barzini's and the bride from kill bill and the feuding would be complete.

steeljack

06-06-2008 04:00

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by mani (Post 588072)

all we need now are the jets, the sharks, the corleones, the barzini's and the bride from kill bill and the feuding would be complete.

so now we know what turns Mani on .... tragic gang-banging Italian musicals ......they have a name for folks like that .......they call them Opera Queens ,

sorry dude , couldn't resist ;) ;)

sorry for wander

jaysay

06-06-2008 09:10

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 587911)

Graham there is no such things as a 'better' version of the truth - nor can there be a worse version of the truth. There is the truth simple as that!

I tend to agree Gayle, but in my experience there are two sides to every tale and the truth falls somewhere in the middle

MargaretR

06-06-2008 09:17

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Public demonstrations of mutual loathing destroys the credibility and reputations of both of you.

cashman

06-06-2008 09:23

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 588139)

I tend to agree Gayle, but in my experience there are two sides to every tale and the truth falls somewhere in the middle

exactly what i was infering earlier.;)

onlyme

06-06-2008 10:00

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 588140)

Public demonstrations of mutual loathing destroys the credibility and reputations of both of you.

I absolutely agree. I can honestly say that I will never vote for Mr Jones, I have read a few of his threads and I do not like the way he has responded or attacked. I would prefer to tear up a voting slip rather than put a cross in that box

cashman

06-06-2008 10:07

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by onlyme (Post 588155)

at least he has the backbone to come on here,which is more than can be said fer others n it probably aint a pleasant place fer a counciller to come.;)

onlyme

06-06-2008 10:48

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Credit where credit is due, yes he does. Unfortunately the majority of his posts appear to be centering around personal arguments with other members, not anything constructive

Tealeaf

06-06-2008 10:56

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

This is one of the best threads we've had for ages; lovely custard pie stuff and schoolgirl insults masquerading as political debate. I love it - lets have more!

WillowTheWhisp

06-06-2008 12:48

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 588078)

Shouldn't that be soap opera queens?

Good grief the way this thread has been going we'll be having somebody waking up with a horse's head in bed next to them!

So, what's with the vote rigging then? We're in Central Ward and voted at Hannah Street. No-one tried to intimidate us. No-one asked us which way we were voting. There was a bunch of guys standing around in the yard chatting but none approached us or made threatening or intimidating advances. Have we missed out on something? Who won anyway?

(And is he going to get me a new wheelie bin?)

claytonender

06-06-2008 13:24

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Allah Dad won - if you want his tel number (to chase up your wheelie bin) you can find it here
http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/site/sc...y=specificWard

mani	06-06-2008 15:32

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 588078)

:(:(:(:(

there's nothing wrong with a lil tragic song and dance ok!?

it makes the heart yearn for a song and dance sequence when i throw someone outta the club

*scrubs style flashout with the doormen of manchester havin a singing/dancing battle with ppl thrown out of the club*

BERNADETTE

11-09-2008 15:36

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Well the accusations have been investigated and found to be untrue. Councillor Jones is being asked to apologize publicly and I hope he does!!!

jaysay

11-09-2008 17:25

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 629898)

Well the accusations have been investigated and found to be untrue. Councillor Jones is being asked to apologize publicly and I hope he does!!!

Just been looking out the window Bernie and there's a flock of flying pigs just flown over

garinda

11-09-2008 18:03

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 584652)

Wait so hes only getting £20k for a full time hard job of running the council?

And an allowance is salary right? or am I missing something.

That's probably a lot more than he (Cllr. Britcliffe) made selling frocks and fruit bon-bons, to the good people of Hyndburn.;)

g jones

11-09-2008 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 629898)

Well the accusations have been investigated and found to be untrue. Councillor Jones is being asked to apologize publicly and I hope he does!!!

Allah Dad was never accused. It affirms that in the article. The police gave up after meeting a wall of silence. I don't mind apologising but what for? The only person I spoke to and asked the question 'were you involved in fraud' was the Labour candidate. Allah Dad made a series of personal complaints about fraud about the Labour Candidate. So who exactly should be apologising to who and on what basis?
i
Its clear. Fraud took place. No one can argue against that. The police couldn't prove anything. That's a totally different matter.

Posted via Mobile Device

BERNADETTE

11-09-2008 22:28

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

If I had complained that the seat had been won fraudulently and these allegations had been investigated and proved unfounded I would have no problem apologizing. If you can't find it in yourself to do that it is your perogative. By making the complaint the implication is that the elected person is involved IMO.

cashman

11-09-2008 22:36

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

mr jones says he asked the question,"were you involved in fraud" unless i'm missing summat here, that not a complaint.:confused:

garinda

11-09-2008 23:03

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Searching through old press cuttings, I can't find anything where Cllr. Jones, or indeed the press, made any allegations against Cllr. Dad.

There are quite clearly some irregularaties in the number of proxy votes cast in this ward, compared with earlier elections.

I think it was quite right to investigate the matter, and personally do not see the need for any public appology from anyone, as no one was named or accused.

BERNADETTE

11-09-2008 23:07

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Sorry Garinda but the implication is there

garinda

11-09-2008 23:12

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 630128)

Sorry Garinda but the implication is there

We'll have to agree to disagree.

All the information I've seen refered to the high number of proxy votes cast in that ward. No councillor was named as being responsible for this discrepency. Therefore there is no one who is owed an appology, in my opinion.

cashman

11-09-2008 23:13

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 630125)

agree it was the correct thing to do, investigate irregularites which without doubt there were, so none were proven, so why should anyone have to apologise?

garinda

11-09-2008 23:28

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 630131)

agree it was the correct thing to do, investigate irregularites which without doubt there were, so none were proven, so why should anyone have to apologise?

I'd only be demanding an appology from any councillor who knew that there appeared to be suspicious voting patterns, and who hadn't demanded a full investigation.

WillowTheWhisp

12-09-2008 08:46

Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 630142)

I'd only be demanding an appology from any councillor who knew that there appeared to be suspicious voting patterns, and who hadn't demanded a full investigation.

Me too. If a councillor is aware that allegations have been made and does nothing about it then he/she is guilty by default. I can't see that Graham is guilty of anything for wanting the allegations to be investigated. I'm still not sure that 'nothing proven' proves there was nothing either. The letter to the Observer earlier this year for instance. That was written in someone else's name and she knew nothing about it. That was appalling but wouldn't have come to light but for Graham checking it out. I'd far rather have someone who actually gets his teeth into things and wants to know what, if anything, is going on than someone who brushes it all aside and says it isn't their problem.

Earlier this year Mani mentioned Montagues and Capulets, and pots and kettles of equal blackness. Now in my view if there had been allegations made as to the blackness of my kettle I would welcome an investigation into that to prove how shiny bright my kettle really was.

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