Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 583893)

According to the Observer the police are investigating complaints of alleged vote rigging in Accringtons Central Ward during the elections earlier this month. Amongest the things being investigated visiting elderly ladies and offering to help them cast their vote without going to the polling station, bullying at polling stations in Hannah Street and Blackburn Road(allegedly with picture evidence), removing twenty people off the electoral roll in Church and matching them to empty properties in Swiss Street so they could vote in Central Ward and proxy votes cast on behalf of people who are now living in Pakistan so aren't eligible for a vote.
I was really shocked when I read it, what do you think? If this sort of thing is proven to be happening in local elections god only knows the lengths they will go to in the nationals to procure the extra votes.

Originally Posted by lancsdave (Post 583902)

The only thing that suprises me is that anyone is suprised. It's been going on for many election in various parts of various towns :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 583922)

As you all know on here, I am and have always have been a committed Tory, I have not seen the Obs yet, I get mine tomorrow, but I respect Mani and his statement. I will only make one statement, Graham Jones has hardly ever shown his face on her since May 1st (well you don't when you get stuffed), although he does scan what is going on on this site, but I will lay oddes he will be very versiferous on this subject

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 584050)

My Gran died last month. I was her primary/only carer for 2 and half years. I have taken a good slagging from you and Cyfr when I was actually tending to her care.

I have a lot of ward work, Peel Park, Pioneer, a lot of cleansing issues, Neighbourhood Management projects ...

You miss the point. Getting elected is about helping people, not winning more than the others and getting your name over the door.

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 584056)

The Observer had been printing a series of unusual pro-Tory letters. Mrs Stuart was one. I rang her personally to ask why she had written the letter. I actually was tipped off in advance which hard lone Tory supporter had written it.

Mrs Stuart is 76. She told me she had never written a letter to a newspaper, didn't buy the Observer and was shocked someone had misused her name. She said no other Stuart had lived on Whalley Rd in years, and only one or two lived in Clayton.

She would never write about Wheelie Bins and her garden waste because she has a small flagged back yard on Whalley Road and had no need. She said I should raise the matter on her behalf.

Originally Posted by mani (Post 583926)

no the problem with the ppl who stand in the central ward is that are sore losers. they take defeat super personally.

as they were both asian and i knew all three candidates very well the amount of stuff that went down was Montagues vs capulets level. fueds to match the best.

if labour or a labour aligned complained about this then its called digging a hole for themselves.

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 584056)

The Observer had been printing a series of unusual pro-Tory letters. Mrs Stuart was one. I rang her personally to ask why she had written the letter. I actually was tipped off in advance that a hard line Tory supporter had written it.

Mrs Stuart is 76. She told me she had never written a letter to a newspaper, didn't buy the Observer and was shocked someone had misused her name. She said no other Stuart had lived on Whalley Rd in years, and only one or two lived in Clayton. She thanked me for letting her know.

She would never write about Wheelie Bins and her garden waste because she has a small flagged back yard on Whalley Road and had no need. She said I should raise the matter on her behalf.

I understand the Ob rang, realised they had been duped and offered an apology this week.

Two more letters are under scrutiny. People who deceive others ought to know I will persue these matters in the cause of a great british tradition, fair play and honesty.

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 584064)

Completely condemn such actions if true and I'm sure the local parties will regardless of their political leaning. I hope the Observer find out who sent them.

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 584056)

The Observer had been printing a series of unusual pro-Tory letters. Mrs Stuart was one. I rang her personally to ask why she had written the letter. I actually was tipped off in advance that a hard line Tory supporter had written it.

Mrs Stuart is 76. She told me she had never written a letter to a newspaper, didn't buy the Observer and was shocked someone had misused her name. She said no other Stuart had lived on Whalley Rd in years, and only one or two lived in Clayton. She thanked me for letting her know.

She would never write about Wheelie Bins and her garden waste because she has a small flagged back yard on Whalley Road and had no need. She said I should raise the matter on her behalf.

I understand the Ob rang, realised they had been duped and offered an apology this week.

Two more letters are under scrutiny. People who deceive others ought to know I will persue these matters in the cause of a great british tradition, fair play and honesty.

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 584050)

My Gran died last month.

Originally Posted by shillelagh (Post 584080)

Im just nipping to the garage rindy - you want me to get you one?

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 584082)

I wish there was an easy way for me to view the Observer from Hull.

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 584088)

You can view it on-line, my sister-in-law reads it in Australia

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 584082)

I wish there was an easy way for me to view the Observer from Hull.

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 584089)

I was under the impression that only certain articles are online. Unless I'm missing something?

Originally Posted by mani (Post 584104)

g jones

scrutiny is fine

but if both sides are the same - whats there to scrutinise? kettle pot black scenario

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 584056)

The Observer had been printing a series of unusual pro-Tory letters. Mrs Stuart was one. I rang her personally to ask why she had written the letter. I actually was tipped off in advance that a hard line Tory supporter had written it.

Mrs Stuart is 76. She told me she had never written a letter to a newspaper, didn't buy the Observer and was shocked someone had misused her name. She said no other Stuart had lived on Whalley Rd in years, and only one or two lived in Clayton. She thanked me for letting her know.

She would never write about Wheelie Bins and her garden waste because she has a small flagged back yard on Whalley Road and had no need. She said I should raise the matter on her behalf.

I understand the Ob rang, realised they had been duped and offered an apology this week.

Two more letters are under scrutiny. People who deceive others ought to know I will persue these matters in the cause of a great british tradition, fair play and honesty.

Originally Posted by emamum23 (Post 584198)

as everyone knows i warned about this before the elections, g jones has spoken to me privately about this as he wanted to check it wasnt done on his behalf and to check that it was dealt with...
I dont know g jones but from what i have seen on here he is honest about the way he has voted even if we will not agree, tbh he could lie about it and we wouldnt know... he could have shrugged my report of vote rigging off but he didnt...from what i have seen he makes an effort to find out why people arent happy like calling the lady that supposedly wrote the letter....i have lived here nearly a year now and g jones is the only mp i know anything about

Originally Posted by emamum23 (Post 584198)

as everyone knows i warned about this before the elections, g jones has spoken to me privately about this as he wanted to check it wasnt done on his behalf and to check that it was dealt with...
I dont know g jones but from what i have seen on here he is honest about the way he has voted even if we will not agree, tbh he could lie about it and we wouldnt know... he could have shrugged my report of vote rigging off but he didnt...from what i have seen he makes an effort to find out why people arent happy like calling the lady that supposedly wrote the letter....i have lived here nearly a year now and g jones is the only mp i know anything about

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 584470)

He's a councillor Emma, and leader of the Labour group on Hyndburn Borough Council.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 584203)

I'm sure Graham will be pleasd you've promoted him to MP ema:D

Originally Posted by emamum23 (Post 584472)

I shall plead ignorance! absolutely no idea what the difference is :D

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 584536)

I thought they got paid too. Just nowhere near as much.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 584635)

A VOTE to increase councillor's expenses sparked cries of disgust from the public gallery at Accrington Town Hall on Tuesday, during a Cabinet meeting.

Labour members had tabled an amendment which would have scrapped an estimated £5,000 rise in the allowance for council leader, Councillor Peter Britcliffe but this was defeated.

His basic allowance has jumped from £17,032 to £19,842, but he is also allowed to claim allowances for more than one special responsibility, which has led to the extra £5,000 he can claim.

This equates to a whopping pay increase of around 20 per cent.

http://www.accringtonobserver.co.uk/...ouncil_chamber

A case of let them eat cake...if they can afford it, whilst I enjoy living of the fat of the land.;)

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 584107)

Are there any allegations of the other side vote rigging being investigated???

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 584694)

When you take into account what leaders of other councils get, its not much. Hyndburn is a business which spends around £14 million per annum, in comperison with what MPS get its a pitance, their exes are more than that

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 584697)

Well I suppose Mr Jones has to save face somehow, after all he is now officially the worst Labour leader in the history of Hyndburn Council, Since 1973 when Hyndburn Council was formed Labour has never had just 13 councillors, until now, take a bow Graham your legend in your own lunch time

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 584701)

I thought your campaign was against Mr Brown and the Government. Remember
Government short changes us
Post Office's
Petrol - food

and even locally
Labour's Black Hole (before my time - I'd just got elected that year)

You know PB's plan is to never mention my name, what I stand for, what I have proposed to not give it oxygen.

Thought I'd say all that, not for your benefit Mr Farrer, but for the rest of the public who have to put up with your drivel.

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 584696)

My message to these people is that I represent East Accrington and no amount of sour grapes, or community pressure, will have any impact with people around here, or myself.

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 584712)

Sorry is this trying to get to the truth of the matter through the police, or is this you trying to gain politically on something that may or may not be true?

Originally Posted by emamum23 (Post 584717)

You shouldnt put someones name on a public forum without their permission........thats why we have usernames.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 584718)

Well ema I use mr jones name because thats his user name, mr jones often use my real name when I hit a nerve with some comment, looks like I hit a real nerve this morning, He likes to dish it out but can't take it and his toys come out of he pram:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by emamum23 (Post 584719)

wasnt aimed at you :p
I would be pretty annoyed if someone used my real name on here.. if i wanted people to know it i would have used it as my username.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 584694)

When you take into account what leaders of other councils get, its not much. Hyndburn is a business which spends around £14 million per annum, in comperison with what MPS get its a pitance, their exes are more than that

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 584697)

Well I suppose Mr Jones has to save face somehow, after all he is now officially the worst Labour leader in the history of Hyndburn Council, Since 1973 when Hyndburn Council was formed Labour has never had just 13 councillors, until now, take a bow Graham your legend in your own lunch time

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 584753)

I bet nurses, firemen, or soldiers, wish they could vote to give themselves a 20% pay increase.

Still, as long as Peter Britcliffe thinks he's worth it, while many residents of Hyndburn struggle on, that's okay then.;)

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 584761)

That a load of B******** and you know it Rindi, its like a broken record or is it g.jones pulling your strings. Councillor in Hyndburn are underpaid compared to other authorites, when you consider cabinet members at LCC are on the thick end of £35 grand and the leader is on around £60 grand. Leader of HBC is now a full time job, its a business and should be run as such, when officers are on telephone number salaries, £20 grand for the Leader is still low in comparison. The reason g.jones opposed it, is that if he was leader, he still has a full time job, and thats a good reason he shouldn't even be given the chance.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 584757)

It was actually 1974.;)

Rude and wrong.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 584764)

I presume Peter Britcliffe knew what the allowances were when he stood for the council, and subsequently became leader of the council?

I stand by what I said, it must be great to vote to give yourself a 20% increase.

Others, such as nurses and firemen, must look in awe as they have to settle for near inflation pay rises.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 584765)

1 year out maybe, I concept was agreed in 1973, first elections 74, but how can telling the truth be rude, its a fact

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 584766)

See you haven't denied being g.jones puppet:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 584773)

Its as much pushing a political agenda as you are. Just airing his political views. Or are people who support political parties not allowed to have views? The only reason he is in the party is surely because broadly they represent his viewpoint?

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 584768)

The fact was wrong, the rudeness was your remarks about Graham Jones.

Oh, hang on. It's the rest of us who make vile attacks on here, towards Peter Britcliffe, as you said in your letter to the press.

I've never seen such a blatent case of the pot calling the kettle black.:mad:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 584777)

People can post whatever they like, as long as it's accurate. You two, as members of the same political party, me as a partisan bystander.;)

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 584777)

People can post whatever they like, as long as it's accurate. You two, as members of the same political party, me as a partisan bystander.;)

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 584778)

That was not an attack or rude Rindi it was 100% fact, unlike some of the tripe said about PB on here, what ever I say about g.jones he has the right to reply, but has I said before, when he i losing the argument his toys come out of the pram. I've actually notice that those peope that do slag PB of on here hae never taken up the invitation to call him to his face, not even you

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 584782)

Yea a partisan bystander that has a huge tilt to the left:tongueout:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 584786)

Oh I'm sorry, I must have missed the invitation to meet him face to face. Rest assured whatever I say on here I have no qualms saying to anyone in person.

Perhaps he could invite me to discuss the flower towers, which I was singing his praises about last week, on this very forum.

You say Graham Jones has the right to reply on here, so has Peter Britcliffe, but sadly he doesn't seem to have the inclination to do so.;)

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 584791)

Er... I hardly think so, as I was criticising Tory policy re:benefit reforms as being too wishy washy, and middle of the road.

On some things I'm more on the side of Attila the Hun, though people seem to convieniently ignore that, when trying to put people in little boxes.

You may well be happy being in your little one party box, l'm more of a free thinker.;)

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 584792)

He's far to busy looking after his family, running a house, and running the Council:tongueout

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 584793)

I seem to remember the Welsh Wind Bag saying that Attila the Hun was clumsy tourist:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 584712)

Sorry is this trying to get to the truth of the matter through the police, or is this you trying to gain politically on something that may or may not be true?

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 584694)

When you take into account what leaders of other councils get, its not much.

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 585105)

A recent survey of lancashire districts not only showed Hynburn to pay the highest expenses but significantly higher than the other highest.
Mr Farrer. You are an expert in talking drivel. Incessent in saying anything to defend Tory face. As Andy Tatchell said, you can always rely on one daft as a brush Tory to lighten the atmosphere.

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 585228)

As for the subject of expenses and the amount that you get paid to be on the council.

As most people know, my politics rarely align themselves with the Conservatives but I would not begrudge the leader one penny for the amount of work that he puts in. Whether it's £35k or £60k that he gets for being leader of HBC, if he was the Chair of a large company he would get far more.

I know it's supposed to be a 'calling' and that councillors are only doing it for the good of the people but in my opinion, if you don't start making it attractive then you're never going to get a high calibre of councillors. If I'd have been elected I would have got the standard £4,800 as I think it was then but I would have had to lose a heck of a lot more in salary and work from other sources. Plus, they put in some long hours (well the good ones do), and they're constantly on call - I have heard of people who ring their local councillors at all hours.

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 585228)

As most people know, my politics rarely align themselves with the Conservatives but I would not begrudge the leader one penny for the amount of work that he puts in. Whether it's £35k or £60k that he gets for being leader of HBC, if he was the Chair of a large company he would get far more.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 585232)

I agree, up to a point. Though I still think voting to give yourself a 20% increase is outrageous.

No matter how many peanuts you pay, you are still going to have a few monkeys.

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 585219)

Anyway, back to the subject in hand!

When I stood for council a couple of years ago, I identified at least three ways in which someone could cheat if they wanted too, I'm sure there are others. I'm not suggesting for a second that i did that or that any of my opponents did it either but I'm quite sure that if there was someone unscrupulous with half a brain who identified the ways as I did they probably wouldn't hesitate to use them.

1. - postal/proxy votes - people can be assisted with their vote. Let's just say for example that the person is vulnerable, blind or illiterate, their vote could easily be mis-used.

2. - at the polling booth - some parties sit outside the polling booth and mark down on the electoral register who has been to vote. They also know from previous electoral registers who has never voted before. Let's just say for example that I know for certain that a person who lives in one ward never votes and the chances of them turning up with their card to vote are 1 in a million - someone whose face is unknown could simply turn up at the polling station without a polling card and claim to be someone else.

3. at the count - votes for each person are counted into 50's and bundled. Let's just say I was one of the counters and I had a particular leaning, it wouldn't be too hard to hide some votes within bundles for the opposing candidate.

Now, I'm not saying that anyone that I know has ever used those methods but if I've worked it out then I'm pretty sure that other, less honest people, could work out the same.

The whole voting system needs to be completely overhauled if trust in it is to be restored.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 585233)

Quite a lot of the current incumbents wouldn't even be sent an application form, nevermind reach the interview stage, if applying for a job of equal standing in the corporate world.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 585236)

I tend to agree with, but anyone can cheat, your third example, thats why there are scrutineers, someone who is used to elections can spot vote palming. Sitting outside the poling station, well I know our party don't use a register at the polling station, we just take the numbers and take them back to a committee room, all parties know where there vote is, I used to know St. Andrews Ward like the back of my hand, because I worked it for so many years, I was only ever interested in getting our vote out, the last time I had anything to do with an election was when you stood and I told PB at around 8-30 that he was going to win by around 130 I wasn't that far of

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 585228)

As for the subject of expenses and the amount that you get paid to be on the council.

As most people know, my politics rarely align themselves with the Conservatives but I would not begrudge the leader one penny for the amount of work that he puts in. Whether it's £35k or £60k that he gets for being leader of HBC, if he was the Chair of a large company he would get far more.

I know it's supposed to be a 'calling' and that councillors are only doing it for the good of the people but in my opinion, if you don't start making it attractive then you're never going to get a high calibre of councillors. If I'd have been elected I would have got the standard £4,800 as I think it was then but I would have had to lose a heck of a lot more in salary and work from other sources. Plus, they put in some long hours (well the good ones do), and they're constantly on call - I have heard of people who ring their local councillors at all hours.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 585233)

Quite a lot of the current incumbents wouldn't even be sent an application form, nevermind reach the interview stage, if applying for a job of equal standing in the corporate world.

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 585243)

Whose fault is that, those that stand or those that vote them in?

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 585228)

As for the subject of expenses and the amount that you get paid to be on the council.

As most people know, my politics rarely align themselves with the Conservatives but I would not begrudge the leader one penny for the amount of work that he puts in. Whether it's £35k or £60k that he gets for being leader of HBC, if he was the Chair of a large company he would get far more.

I know it's supposed to be a 'calling' and that councillors are only doing it for the good of the people but in my opinion, if you don't start making it attractive then you're never going to get a high calibre of councillors. If I'd have been elected I would have got the standard £4,800 as I think it was then but I would have had to lose a heck of a lot more in salary and work from other sources. Plus, they put in some long hours (well the good ones do), and they're constantly on call - I have heard of people who ring their local councillors at all hours.

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 585243)

Whose fault is that, those that stand or those that vote them in?

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 585253)

Or the system?

A system whereby people find themselves in charge of multi-million pound budgets, when in reality they'd struggle to organise a jumble sale in the church hall.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 585253)

Or the system?

A system whereby people find themselves in charge of multi-million pound budgets, when in reality they'd struggle to organise a jumble sale in the church hall.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 585312)

In that case it would be bloody well totally irresponcible putting g.jones in charge, according to reports he can't even manage his own party let allone the council, only last week he had a toe to toe with one of his ex-councillors and because he didn't get his own way he walked out, real leadership, not

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 585219)

1. - postal/proxy votes - people can be assisted with their vote. Let's just say for example that the person is vulnerable, blind or illiterate, their vote could easily be mis-used.

2. - at the polling booth - some parties sit outside the polling booth and mark down on the electoral register who has been to vote. They also know from previous electoral registers who has never voted before. Let's just say for example that I know for certain that a person who lives in one ward never votes and the chances of them turning up with their card to vote are 1 in a million - someone whose face is unknown could simply turn up at the polling station without a polling card and claim to be someone else.

3. at the count - votes for each person are counted into 50's and bundled. Let's just say I was one of the counters and I had a particular leaning, it wouldn't be too hard to hide some votes within bundles for the opposing candidate.

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 585323)

As you were not at the meeting concerned how can you say that Graham walked out because he did not get his own way. Have you thought of asking him why he left? .