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-   -   Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/police-probe-vote-rigging-complaints-39856.html)

BERNADETTE 12-09-2008 09:49
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Sorry but if the allegations have been investigated and no vote rigging has been found why is there no need for an apology? Mud sticks and I'm sure the person who won the seat is the one who all the mud was flung at!!!

jaysay 12-09-2008 10:02
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
There is bound to be diferences in voting paterns as this government have encouraged more and more people to use postal and proxy voting, without the regerous checks that there used to be. In the pst a PV for sickness had to be endoresed by a front line nurse or GP, for work purposes your boss had to sign, there were numerous different forms for different purposes, but know there is only one fits all. So there are pluses an minuses with everything and voting paterns are bound to change respectively

andrewb 12-09-2008 10:42
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 630142)
I'd only be demanding an appology from any councillor who knew that there appeared to be suspicious voting patterns, and who hadn't demanded a full investigation.
The difference being some councillors want it to be investigated by the police and say no more, others jump the gun and scream fraud.

g jones 12-09-2008 11:08
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 630229)
The difference being some councillors want it to be investigated by the police and say no more, others jump the gun and scream fraud.
You are right. The highest number of complaints in Central Ward were made by Allah Dad about Tariq Ali (Labour). Allah Dad also made the first lot of complaints according to the police. He also described claims against him as malicious counter claims.

Now he is in the paper having made the most allegations, wanting an apology. Your Party Andrew should be ashamed of itself.

I'll throw another nugget in whilst your here. Barnfield where you happily canvassed. 50 Proxy votes and the Labour Party fought no campaign and didn't knock on a door. So not us!

Peel Ward - 3 proxy votes - where I was lucky enough to win. Church where Joan Smith a colleague won - 1 proxy vote. Rishton, a massive ward where Harry Grayson won, 10 proxy votes....

I understand why personally you want to attack me all the time Andrew.

WillowTheWhisp 12-09-2008 11:37
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 630215)
Sorry but if the allegations have been investigated and no vote rigging has been found why is there no need for an apology? Mud sticks and I'm sure the person who won the seat is the one who all the mud was flung at!!!

But surely the apology should come from the person who made the allegations?

andrewb 12-09-2008 11:43
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 630235)
You are right. The highest number of complaints in Central Ward were made by Allah Dad about Tariq Ali (Labour). Allah Dad also made the first lot of complaints according to the police. He also described claims against him as malicious counter claims.

Now he is in the paper having made the most allegations, wanting an apology. Your Party Andrew should be ashamed of itself.

I'll throw another nugget in whilst your here. Barnfield where you happily canvassed. 50 Proxy votes and the Labour Party fought no campaign and didn't knock on a door. So not us!

Peel Ward - 3 proxy votes - where I was lucky enough to win. Church where Joan Smith a colleague won - 1 proxy vote. Rishton, a massive ward where Harry Grayson won, 10 proxy votes....

I understand why personally you want to attack me all the time Andrew.
What has Barnfield ward got to do with this? I used a proxy vote, it is mine and others democratic right to partake in elections no matter where we put the cross on the ballot paper. Are you making yet more accusations?

There is no doubt that suspected fraud must be reported and investigated. All I heard from Allah Dad was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Councillor Allah Dad
Complaints have been made to the police and until they are dealt with I do not wish to discuss it.
Like I say, some councillors scream fraud, others accept that a police investigation is being carried out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Accrington Observer
But an unrepentant Councillor Jones said: "The fraud is obvious – the figures tell the truth.
You're travelling down a very rocky path if you are suggesting that the four month police investigation that proved there was no irregularities, actually came to the wrong conclusion.

WillowTheWhisp 12-09-2008 11:45
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Of, as Mani said earlier, both pot and kettle are as black as each other that doesn't give me much confidence in voting for anyone in this Ward in future. No wonder nothing ever gets done if it's all this petty squabbling. It's worse than "The House of Cards".

accyman 12-09-2008 11:57
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
it seems to me fraud was commited but the fraudster has been protected by people refusing to speak so the police couldnt find any evidence due to been met by a wall of scilence as it was put earlier in this thread. Theres plenty of guilty criminals walking the streets because the police couldnt find enough evidence so the police not finding enough evidence dosnt make someone innocent it just makes them lucky

somthing dodgy was going on or suspicions wouldnt have been raised and the police certainly wouldnt have investigated if there was no evident reason to but there was enough suspicion to look so they did

most polotitions are crooked, the only difference is some get caught and some dont

thats my assumption from thsi thread anyway :-)

cashman 12-09-2008 12:50
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by accyman (Post 630252)
it seems to me fraud was commited but the fraudster has been protected by people refusing to speak so the police couldnt find any evidence due to been met by a wall of scilence as it was put earlier in this thread. Theres plenty of guilty criminals walking the streets because the police couldnt find enough evidence so the police not finding enough evidence dosnt make someone innocent it just makes them lucky

somthing dodgy was going on or suspicions wouldnt have been raised and the police certainly wouldnt have investigated if there was no evident reason to but there was enough suspicion to look so they did

most polotitions are crooked, the only difference is some get caught and some dont

thats my assumption from thsi thread anyway :-)
thats oh so true, in many sections of life. the fact that many complaints in central ward were made by the opposition, a fact some seem to ignore, makes their posts "Naive" at best, downright lies at worst. the police tend to investigate " Nowt" without good cause, everyone knows that i'm sure, fer people to ignore that fact shows their true colours.:(

Gordie 12-09-2008 17:06
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
They wont stop at anything.The Packistani flag flying over the town hall is the goal and the Brit do gooders who are not in touch with real asian views are unintentionally destroying the fabric of British society to the laughter of the foreigner.When in Rome.

Gordie 12-09-2008 17:12
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Any wrong doings by Asians is never excepted by there own. They always try and twist any wrong doing.(Theres a ship rigged ready in the harbour ) Roger whitaker song

g jones 12-09-2008 17:26
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 630247)
Of, as Mani said earlier, both pot and kettle are as black as each other that doesn't give me much confidence in voting for anyone in this Ward in future. No wonder nothing ever gets done if it's all this petty squabbling. It's worse than "The House of Cards".
I think you're right to be skeptical. However I have just done jury service with a 'he says, she says' and the only way to get to the truth is to have it all out in the open. It's not pleasant and it is frustrating. That's my belief. As any barrister would say, its not how you got there, but where you ended up that is important.

blazey 12-09-2008 17:53
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Graham I think you looked bad today on the front page of the Observer. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and accept the result, even if it doesn't match your theory. You can't win every battle.

garinda 12-09-2008 17:56
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 630229)
The difference being some councillors want it to be investigated by the police and say no more, others jump the gun and scream fraud.

Have you been privy to some more information, since your post on the second of June?

Then you said, and I quote, 'Having now read the article it is nice to see our public officials acting responsibly and not accusing electoral fraud publicly before an investigation is finished.'

You certainly made no mention of anyone jumping on the bandwagon, and screaming fraud.

andrewb 12-09-2008 19:04
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 630430)
Have you been privy to some more information, since your post on the second of June?

Then you said, and I quote, 'Having now read the article it is nice to see our public officials acting responsibly and not accusing electoral fraud publicly before an investigation is finished.'

You certainly made no mention of anyone jumping on the bandwagon, and screaming fraud.
The article I had read and was referring to was this one: Cops probe vote rig complaints - News - Accrington Observer

My comment was made as a sarcastic remark.

g jones 12-09-2008 20:11
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazey (Post 630429)
Graham I think you looked bad today on the front page of the Observer.
Didn't think my photo was that bad!!!!!! Obviously I'll have to get down to boots in the morning for some fresh make up!! :D:D:D

Quote:
Originally Posted by blazey (Post 630429)
Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and accept the result, even if it doesn't match your theory. You can't win every battle.
There is no theory. Significant changes in proxy voting can only be put down to fraud. There was an impersonal debate not naming anyone (As the Ob reported and AndrewB applauded at the time), until Allah Dad launched himself into the 'I am the victim mode', whilst ironically around the back making allegations about the other 2 candidates. First of all Labour when he thought they would win, then the LibDems when he thought they would win.

Blazey and Bernadette. I find your position quite difficult now. 'Calling for apologies' and asking people to 'lead by example' puts all the pressure on Allah Dad and The Conservatives to apologise to Tariq Ali for all the allegations they made.

I believe no-one should be apologising. Fraud took place. It was reported correctly. There was an investigation in which the Police couldn't find the evidence that is out there. It's a failure by those guilty to come forward and the Police for failing to gather the evidence.

Lilly 12-09-2008 20:21
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 630476)
Didn't think my photo was that bad!!!!!! Obviously I'll have to get down to boots in the morning for some fresh make up!! :D:D:D



There is no theory. Significant changes in proxy voting can only be put down to fraud. There was an impersonal debate not naming anyone (As the Ob reported and AndrewB applauded at the time), until Allah Dad launched himself into the 'I am the victim mode', whilst ironically around the back making allegations about the other 2 candidates. First of all Labour when he thought they would win, then the LibDems when he thought they would win.

Blazey and Bernadette. I find your position quite difficult now. 'Calling for apologies' and asking people to 'lead by example' puts all the pressure on Allah Dad and The Conservatives to apologise to Tariq Ali for all the allegations they made.

I believe no-one should be apologising. Fraud took place. It was reported correctly. There was an investigation in which the Police couldn't find the evidence that is out there. It's a failure by those guilty to come forward and the Police for failing to gather the evidence.
Hello and welcome back. :)

Hope you enjoyed your jury service....you'll know all about 'he says, she says' with you being involved in local politics, won't you? :p

A police investigation has declared that no fraud took place. I think that means it's over and done with. No point going on about it.

g jones 12-09-2008 20:28
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilly (Post 630478)
A police investigation has declared that no fraud took place. I think that means it's over and done with. No point going on about it.
The Police could not find anyone willing to come forward. No-one ever said there was no-evidence or no fraud.

Every reason why this should be brought up. Its the fourth election where it has happened. I hope you will come out with me and condemn the cheats.

After next week it should die down.

Lilly 12-09-2008 20:51
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 630483)
The Police could not find anyone willing to come forward. No-one ever said there was no-evidence or no fraud.

Every reason why this should be brought up. Its the fourth election where it has happened. I hope you will come out with me and condemn the cheats.

After next week it should die down.
The way the Observer put it was that there was no evidence of irregularities. That was after a police investigation so will have to be accepted.

cmonstanley 13-09-2008 09:01
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
no smoke without fire comes to mind..cyfr and blazey trying to play the party line with local politics when they dont know what they are talking about:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Neil 13-09-2008 09:10
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 630476)
Significant changes in proxy voting can only be put down to fraud.
There are 2 ways of looking at that.

1. Fraud took place.

2. More people are deciding to vote that way as it is easier for them if they work / are on holiday / ill health etc.

I really do hope number 2 is what happened because I would hate to think anything illegal did go on.

I suspect the next election will show an even higher number of proxy votes.

Neil 13-09-2008 09:12
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Graham, please can you explain exactly what proxy voting is and why it is used. I think I know but would like to be sure so I can then understand how it can be abused.

MargaretR 13-09-2008 09:19
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
When darwendosser and I lived together, I was given proxy voting rights for him because he was a long distance lorry driver and was likely to be away from home on voting day

Lilly 13-09-2008 09:45
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 630616)
Graham, please can you explain exactly what proxy voting is and why it is used. I think I know but would like to be sure so I can then understand how it can be abused.
There is an explanation of proxy voting here, Neil.

Voting by proxy - About my vote, produced by The Electoral Commission

Proxy voting is when you can nominate someone else to go to the polling station and vote on your behalf if you are unable to attend yourself. One of the reasons is that you might be on holiday but there is a list of reasons in the link. :)

jaysay 13-09-2008 10:06
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 630616)
Graham, please can you explain exactly what proxy voting is and why it is used. I think I know but would like to be sure so I can then understand how it can be abused.
Its quite easy really Neil, you give some one else the right to cast a vote on your behalf, at the polling station, you can even have a postal proxy, or you could? Needless to say I would note be asking Graham to stand proxy for me:D

andrewb 13-09-2008 12:42
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 630612)
no smoke without fire comes to mind..cyfr and blazey trying to play the party line with local politics when they dont know what they are talking about:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Nothing to do with party line, but if you need to use that excuse to justify my thoughts to yourself, then so be it. Like I said, a very rocky road to go down to suggest no smoke without fire when people and events are CLEARED of any wrong doing.

cmonstanley 13-09-2008 13:12
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
:D:D:Dha ha ha

MargaretR 13-09-2008 16:20
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
In arabic cultures it is considered OK to lie when the motive is good. They call it taqiyya
Taqiyya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Islam Watch - "Understanding Taqiyya ― Islamic Principle of Lying for the Sake of Allah" by Warner MacKenzie
When taqiyya is used to avoid making an admission or concession it is simply an essential means of ensuring that ones honour and standing remain intact and untarnished.

Koran
Al-taqiyya and dissimulation are words used for a practice of Muslims blatantly lying to non-Muslims. All but some of the most fundamental Muslims consider the act of Al-taqiyya or lying to non-Muslims to be a good work.

cashman 13-09-2008 18:16
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
wonder if the police are aware of that? apprentice M.P.s are not i'll bet.:rolleyes:

g jones 13-09-2008 21:28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 630638)
Its quite easy really Neil, you give some one else the right to cast a vote on your behalf, at the polling station, you can even have a postal proxy, or you could? Needless to say I would note be asking Graham to stand proxy for me:D
well that's daft as you know I would vote conservative without hesitation. Proxy votes are to represent the wishes of the absent voter.


Posted via Mobile Device

g jones 13-09-2008 21:30
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Church Ward is a heavy Asian ward. There was just 1 proxy vote this year in that ward.
Posted via Mobile Device

Neil 13-09-2008 21:44
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Am I the only that starts typing a reply and then decides not too?

Lilly 13-09-2008 21:46
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 630870)
Am I the only that starts typing a reply and then decides not too?
No.

Gayle 13-09-2008 21:51
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 630870)
Am I the only that starts typing a reply and then decides not too?

I do it all the time!

jaysay 14-09-2008 09:36
Re: Police Probe Vote Rigging Complaints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 630860)
well that's daft as you know I would vote conservative without hesitation. Proxy votes are to represent the wishes of the absent voter.


Posted via Mobile Device
Well as your a gentleman I'll have to believe you:D


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