Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674030)

A one day 'Rural Conference' that costs us £3,000 to send three councillors from Hyndburn?

I'll be keeping an eye out for flying pigs the next time I'm shopping in the increasingly derelict shopping experience that is Accrington.

Some of these expense hikes are treating the people who are paying for them as 'rural' dung, to put it politely.

Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 674031)

I can't understand this constant blagging of your elected councillors, Peter B in particular.
You said you ran a business with a multi million pound turnover.
Publish your accounts for expenses and let everyone know what an honest man you are.
Don't forget to mention bonuses and perks.
If you feel so strongly about the politics in Accy stand for election.
I have got a heath problem which is life threatening but I can still hold my corner.
If you are are concerned with the demise in Accrington...invest in a pie shop, smack bang in the centre and display your wares.
Hollands are on the up.......Long live progress.

Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 674031)

I can't understand this constant blagging of your elected councillors, Peter B in particular.
You said you ran a business with a multi million pound turnover.
Publish your accounts for expenses and let everyone know what an honest man you are.
Don't forget to mention bonuses and perks.
If you feel so strongly about the politics in Accy stand for election.
I have got a heath problem which is life threatening but I can still hold my corner.
If you are are concerned with the demise in Accrington...invest in a pie shop, smack bang in the centre and display your wares.
Hollands are on the up.......Long live progress.

Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 674031)

I can't understand this constant blagging of your elected councillors, Peter B in particular.
You said you ran a business with a multi million pound turnover.
Publish your accounts for expenses and let everyone know what an honest man you are.
Don't forget to mention bonuses and perks.
If you feel so strongly about the politics in Accy stand for election.
I have got a heath problem which is life threatening but I can still hold my corner.
If you are are concerned with the demise in Accrington...invest in a pie shop, smack bang in the centre and display your wares.
Hollands are on the up.......Long live progress.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674030)

A one day 'Rural Conference' that costs us £3,000 to send three councillors from Hyndburn?

Originally Posted by bondi38 (Post 674036)

You are right i have been to boundry mill once and that was enough the prices are outragouse but its like anything else they rely on coach parties going for a day out and they will just buy something because they have gone for a special day out even if its only a cup and saucer they should come to ossy mills much better bargains there.coach parties come every day cant get parked up unless i go at 9am so all you people who want a good day out come to ossy mills .
There thats my little say for the day as no one else seems to talk about it .

Originally Posted by lancsdave (Post 674041)

Thats a bit like saying somebody who constantly critiscises the running of the country should stand for MP. ;)

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674053)

In the meantime I shall continue being a fly in the ointment, especially ointment that smells so bad it really should be binned.;)

Originally Posted by katex (Post 674058)

Would that be the domestic, green or blue bin Garinda ... LOL. x

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 674066)

I think it boils down to the fact that Conservative politicians have more extravagant tastes ... by birthright!

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 674073)

speak fer yerself, i got "Blue Blood":D

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 674013)

I have 3 coats bought at Boundary Mill sales in recent years.
I watch the pennies - they were cheaper than M&S and Littlewoods catalogue despite having cashmere in the wool fabric.

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 673924)

Was Councillor Britcliffe's attendance at the Local Government Association conference in Bournemouth in July 2008 not classed as a stay away on Hyndburn Council business?

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674070)

I'm afraid we can't use that as an excuse for our local Tory grandees, as they are from as humble a stock as the rest of us.

Perhaps extravagance comes with power.

Originally Posted by Robert Owen (Post 674124)

The question it seems to me is whether all these trips to London are really necessary Also is there not possibly a less expensive way to lobby the Government i.e send a letter, telephone call.

Originally Posted by Robert Owen (Post 674142)

My understanding is that the trip to Bournemouth was paid for by Hyndburn Council and not the L.G.A

Originally Posted by Robert Owen (Post 674147)

Where's the benefit for the Borough?

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 674137)

No it wasn't, its a separate organisation Xes being paid by the local government association not HBC

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 674145)

Quite a sweeping statement for your first post, One trip at the behest of the Prime Minister hardly seems extravagant at a cost of £90 for the benefit of the Borough

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674167)

He was accompanied by his Chief Executive, according to the press, and one would presume they would also quite rightly be eligible to transportation expenses to London, so the cost to Hyndburn for being at the launch of Pennine Lancashire would be a lot more than £90.

As stated earlier, I've been to many afternoon meeting or matinee theatre trips to London, and returned home the same day.

I wonder what time the launch took place, and what benefits we can actually expect by having two representatives from the borough at this launch?

I hope the nibbles in Downing Street were worth it.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 674170)

Again your mouth wash ain't making it Rindi

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674173)

I'm sorry I don't understand that comment any better today, than when you posted the same thing yesterday.

I prefer plain speaking.

A spade's a spade in my book, and I don't find it necessary to speak in riddles.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 674188)

Your talking b******S that plain enough for ya:D

Originally Posted by Robert Owen (Post 674223)

Surely the whole point of this thread is to question whether or not the Ratepayers of Hyndburn and getting value for money. Katex its all of us ratepayers who are paying for these trips.

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 674232)

Do the council publish individual councillors expenses per chance? If so, where?

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674192)

Oh I see now.

You don't agree with what I've posted, but can't come up with a counter argument in defence, so descend to insults.

:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 674246)

Don't matter what I say, the bottom line is you detest PB, or anything he does, you really should throw your hat in the ring with Jones get a seat on the Council then you can at least do something constructive, mind you getting a seat on the council at the moment might be just a little hard, unless that is you tern to a shade of blue. And my last post wasn't an insult, if it was meant to be an insult I wouldn't have used smileys:D

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 674040)

why on earth should garinda publish accounts n expenses? i think the answer lies in the fact you doubt what he says? i happen to know different, so call me a liar as well if ya wish.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 674311)

As has been said on Accyweb before 'Show me the link'.
How can I possibly doubt what the chosen one say's? :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 674311)

As has been said on Accyweb before 'Show me the link'.
How can I possibly doubt what the chosen one say's? :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674309)

If I had a problem and needed Peter's help, he'd go out of his way to help me, just as I know he's done for others, and that is one of the reasons why he's been a councillor so long in Ossy.

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 674338)

It could have been worse, we could have had 'that woman' as our Councillor ;):D:D

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674342)

I do remember you telling me at the time you were voting for the candidate with the biggest boobs.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674316)

I don't remember you attaching any documetary evidence when you started your thread about Mrs. Royboy's bounced cheque, and the subsequent bank charges.

We trusted that you were telling the truth, just as I am, without the need for bank statements, letters etc.

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 674332)

As Garinda is a 'just' a member of the public and a council tax payer in Hyndburn, who is not accountable to the council tax payers of Hyndburn (or anyone who posts on this website) for any expenses he has claimed either now or in the past. So there is no need for him to publicly prove what he claimed expenses for.

Originally Posted by claytonender (Post 674332)

As Garinda is a 'just' a member of the public and a council tax payer in Hyndburn, who is not accountable to the council tax payers of Hyndburn (or anyone who posts on this website) for any expenses he has claimed either now or in the past. So there is no need for him to publicly prove what he claimed expenses for.

Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 674358)

Garinda is a big boy and can look after himself...don't you think?:)

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674342)

I'm sure Gayle would have been just as diligent as Peter.

I guess we'll never know.

I do remember you telling me at the time you were voting for the candidate with the biggest boobs.

If only Peter hadn't stopped smoking when he did, Gayle might well now be our councillor.

:rolleyes::D

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 674370)

Well just for the record I would have tried to find cheap hotels wherever I went that kept the cost down.

However, if we're on about claiming allowances, then I would claim every single penny because I would have lost about £20k a year by having to give up at Mid Pennine Arts, which I would have had to have done at the time as it was a conflict of interests!

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 674375)

I was interested to read that the allowances are limits and not automatically dished out.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674383)

If he can adequately feed himself in our most expensive city for £12.30, why the need for a £25.00 upper limit?

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 674387)

I think it's called flexibility Garinda. As you say, its a limit, so you don't need to get your knickers in a twist. An independent review came up with the figure. Perhaps its these independents that are getting things wrong. ;)

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 674386)

When you are away on business, especially on your own, it is often just easier after a long day to stay in the hotel. A meal, couple of drinks and off to bed. Been there done that :)

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674396)

It also seems that a good number of our councillors were opposed to the increases too.

Originally Posted by katex (Post 674400)

Yeh, but only opposed in the principle of not increasing in the face of the credit crunch, etc., etc., etc., political move .. not the reality of situations.

Originally Posted by katex (Post 674400)

Like all letters to the press, most are in a derogatory way against an issue, and most people who agree do not write in to them, so they probably had no choices on the 'agree' side ... in fact, none ... to be fair to the Observer, they do like to put up an opposite view ... :p Might write one myself for next weeks .. LOL.

Originally Posted by katex (Post 674400)

Yeh, but only opposed in the principle of not increasing in the face of the credit crunch, etc., etc., etc., political move .. not the reality of situations.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674398)

Same here, and similarly my employer was footing the bill, not the public purse.

Let's just hope the people of Hyndburn think the increases are worth it, when they are paying for it via their council Tax bills.

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 674423)

Lets deal with reality, facts, figures. If 5 councillors have been to London, even at upper limit that's £170+£35 for breakfast, lunch and evening meal. Times by 5, although I am not aware of them all going in one year, but lets be conservative with the value.

That's 0.007% of the council budget. Do you spend much time watching for your milkman slipping? ;)

Oh yes, £35 for a days allowance in London, that's exactly the same as Unison the trade union, or at least it was a few years ago.

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 674426)

i believe they should just be given a set wage,then we see if they really wanted to go to london....:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674413)

The overnight accommodation allowance rose by 49%, the food allowance more than 100%.

The reality being that if this limit was adequate last year, as it seems to be for neighbouring councils, even given inflation, these increases are huge.

That is the reality of the situation.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674430)

My query is as to why the allowances needed to be increased by such a massive percentage, way above the rate of inflation, when presumably no one has been out of pocket previously.

Any comment about the facts and figures the £3,000 it apparently costs Hyndburn to send three councillors to the one day Rural Conference?

Or did you miss seeing that because of your political blinkers?

It's mentioned in post 95 by the way.;)

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 674439)

in todays age you would think the council and the goverment would embrace technology by having conferences over the internet and phone but no that would keep them off the gravy train ..it is time for a new political party............

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 674445)

After sitting in a 4 hour video conference the other week I can assure you it is nothing like a face to face around a table. As the majority of the people were just outside London I felt very much like I was watching the meeting and not like I was part of it. I would have preferred the 8 hours travelling to sit around the same table as everyone else.

Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 674484)

Going back to the question you asked of me Garinda. I would probably have voted with an inflation increase. However, I would point out that there hadn't been an increase in about four or five years so I would suggest that was taken into account.

It's too early for me to do maths at the moment but I reckon it would have put it up to about £15 or something like that for a meal.

Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 674448)

what happened if a disaster happened i the borough they would not be able to do their job properly if they were in london

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674306)

Is selective/blinkered reading common to all Conservatives, or just yourself and Andrewb?

I don't detest anyone, and certainly not because of someone's political views.

If you'd care to re-read post 80 of this thread, you'd might see that I'd said some very positive, and nice things about Peter Britcliffe. Just as I have in the past when I think he's come up with something worthwhile. For example the Floral Market Town/ flower towers, how well the park looked for the summer concert, etc.

It does become very tiresome when the Conservative party faithful take every criticism as a personal attack. The whole forum knows that the Tory clique on Accy Web would be filled with glee if the criticism had been aimed at someone of another political party. The fact is I'd criticise anyone who had voted for these increases at the present time.

You even dig your own grave even deeper because of your close frienship with Cllr. Britcliffe, because you've made public exactly how much he did spend on his meal in London, £12.30, which is a hell of a lot less than the £25.00 he voted to award themselves, and a percentage increase much more in line with current inflation would mean no one would be out of pocket, and there would have been no story, and therefore no public outcry.

So before you become anymore hysterical I'll say again, I have nothing against Cllr. Britcliffe (see #80 for glowing testimonial), but I will continue to post about something I see as wrong, irrespective of the political allegiance of the person concerned.

Yesterday on this very forum I called some members of this government 'cretins', I notice you haven't accused me of 'despising' the Labour party for doing so.

Odd that.

Well perhaps not too odd, considering you only see what you want to see, and not all the facts that are laid before you.

Perhaps being a member of any one political party makes everything seem as if it's viewed through blinkers.

Happily I'm free from both one party allegiance...and blinkered vision.

:)

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674489)

A rise in line with inflation, taking into account the years the allowance didn't go up, sounds fair enough to me.

Whatever the maths, we both know that the figure would be well below 49% and over 100% that the figures rose by, as for the last few years inflation has been relatively low.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 674512)

Just my final word on this, I didnt start the personal attacks Rindi, it appears you can give it but can't take it:dummy:

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 674524)

The independent review is done by an independent body that recommended these increases. They conducted a survey to find out what the upper limit should be set at, as of course they recognised the seasonal changes in cost. A rise in line with inflation could well lead to a negative value, I don't believe they found that prices in this particular sector had gone down. I believe you will appreciate the lack of political bias, as these independent reviewers have no political axe to grind. ;)

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674529)

If it makes you happy I'd also query the reasons why an independent body recommended so a great an increase, way above the rate of inflation, given that neighbouring councils manage with lower limits.

Anyone care to say who this independent body was, and their qualifications, and what they based their findings on?

It still doesn't make it particularly wise for some councillors to vote in favour of the massively increased limits, given the current financial crisis.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674529)

If it makes you happy I'd also query the reasons why an independent body recommended so a great an increase, way above the rate of inflation, given that neighbouring councils manage with lower limits.

.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 674512)

Just my final word on this, I didnt start the personal attacks Rindi, it appears you can give it but can't take it:dummy:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674554)

I'm sure Cllr. Britcliffe has developed a thick enough political skin to ward If he hasn't then perhaps it's a good thing that he was twice rejected as an M.P. by the people of Hyndburn, as I fear the criticism that comes with that job would have been too much for him, and his acolytes, to bear.

Originally Posted by katex (Post 674546)

Don't think that the 'Independent Body' .. would have particularly looked at the increase percentage wise Garinda. Just what would be a recommended 'ceiling' price for the most expensive scenario. i.e. London.

Don't know myself who they would be except professionals in this field ... perhaps Travel Agents or summat ? :D

Originally Posted by Robert Owen (Post 674610)

I do suggest there is an issue other than the actual travel allowance rises, and that is whether all these trips are absolutely necessary. An instance of this is every year, four councillors plus an officer attend the Local Government Conference which is usually held somewhere by the seaside. This to me is excessive

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674651)

I wonder if the independent panel claimed expenses, whilst carrying out this review, and how much their tea and biscuits cost us?

:D

Originally Posted by katex (Post 674652)

Yer never 'appy are you ..... :D:D

Seems, according to someone I know attending a meeting this week, the HBC put on a very nice lunch ... including Cakes !!

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674651)

I wonder why the councils of Burnley and the Ribble Valley have different allowance limits?

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 674661)

Does it matter? It is a limit not a target and I hope if people were always claiming the top amount something would be said to them.

Originally Posted by shillelagh (Post 674672)

Ive been out today and got the accy observer and rossendale free press ...anyway i was reading the accy observer and there is a notice in it what the independent review body recommended and what the councillors have agreed. Its on page 19 if you are interested.

Review body:
Remove cap on carers allowance claims
New allowance for chair audit committee (£742)
Evening meal allowance of £15 in Lancashire and £20 elsewhere
Overnight accomodation allowance of up to £170 per night in London and £145 elsewhere
All other allowances to increase in line with inflation

The council has considered these recommendations and accepted some of them but not others the revisions to be made to the members allowance scheme from 1st april 2009 are as follows:

Remove cap on carers allowance claims
New allowance for chair Audit committee (£742)
Evening meal allowance of £25
Overnight accommodation of up to £170 per night in london and £145 per night elsewhere
All other allowances to increase in line with inflation


They've agreed with nearly all of the recommendations that the review body brought up ... except for the meal allowance - the review body says £15 in lancashire and £20 elsewhere - but the council have put it up to £25 no matter where they are.

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 674019)

I voted against that rise and every rise since 2002 above inflation. So have the Independents. Everyone has then accepted them after the vote has been lost to the Conservatives. Bare in mind I lose about £7,000 in lost wages at my place of work to be on the Council. In that respect the The Council (Conservatives) have a point.

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 674678)

Why accept them after the vote is lost? If you're principled and the expenses increase are not needed (which you don't think they are or you wouldn't vote against them, right?), then why do you not show the Conservatives up and not take the increases. By taking the increases you infer that they're required, so voting against them to look good is pretty deceptive.

What a shame that you have £7,000 in lost wages. You could always give up being a councillor if its not for you. You get £6,747 for being leader of the opposition, £742 for being on the planning committee, that makes £7,489. Plus all the expenses that go with it. I'm not sure if there's anything else. Not only this but you get to represent the people of Hyndburn. Not a bad deal I must say.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674681)

Perhap's he's holding out to see if he can hit the jackpot, and secure the recently awarded expenses the leader of the Council claims, to make up for the shortfall in his income.;)

Expenses rise sparks fury in council chamber - News - Accrington Observer

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 674683)

Expenses and allowances should be independently set. Period.

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 674683)

Expenses and allowances should be independently set. Period.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 674685)

So of course you'll agree that the councillors who chose to ignore the findings of the independent review body, and award themselves a higher allowance for meals for instance, were wrong.

Good.

It's nice we agree.

Originally Posted by shillelagh (Post 674672)

They've agreed with nearly all of the recommendations that the review body brought up ... except for the meal allowance - the review body says £15 in lancashire and £20 elsewhere - but the council have put it up to £25 no matter where they are.

Originally Posted by andrewb (Post 674694)

Anybody who uses these expenses, not just votes for them, is in the wrong.