Re: Last Nights Council Meeting
 

It certainly is Margaret, the difference is that Hyndburn voters did not vote PB to be their leader, well not directly but they made sure he was not voted in as our MP.

Re: Last Nights Council Meeting
 

Neil I would not dream of flaming you. You are entitled to your opinion.
I wasn't actually saying that any of the current local politicians could make a better job of it.

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Neil you appear to know more about what is happening within the Labour Group of councillors than those of us who are members of the group. Maybe you would like to tell everyone about the 'unrest in the ranks'.


And Jaysay - I have known Graham Jones for a long time, and your comments about him being 'loving himself' are way off the mark. Also Graham does not lie in public - as Peter Britcliffe has done on several occasions recently - one instance of this was at the last meeting of the Resources Overview and Scrutiny panel meeting, when he said that Church and Milnshaw Area Council had withdrawn form the Floral Market Towns hard landscaping project. He knew this was untrue but even when the facts were pointed out to him he persisted in making untrue statements.

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Maybe you would like to explain about it instead so I don't get it wrong ;)

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There is no unrest at all. Where is the evidence. Labour Councillors were accused of being sheep a month or so back for backing me/the group wholeheartedly. I know Peter has done about 5 or 6 lying statements to the press but that's all they are. I have never been leader so it will be fresh territory. I have said I want to ditch the past and move on. Everything is in place to radically change Hyndburn for years to come in the way we treat each other and work together.

There are a lot of the old guard worried outside of labour because they know how determined I am. Having seen 3 leaders and how they did things I am confident this group is totally united and focused.
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even I am flumuxed Neil. No-one has any idea. Joan doesnt. I think you are being sold a load of rubbish to be honest.


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Could be, maybe next time we are at a meet together we could talk about it.

Anyway you are supposed to be enjoying your time with friends not messing about on here.

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Well I can't explain about that something that doesn't exist. As Graham said I think someone is telling you a load of rubbish.

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.........twice.

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That's what I look for in a politican.

Someone who has the balls to say it as it is.

How very refreshing.

No hints of what might be meant, passed on via a third party 'friend'.

Someone brave enough to commit to print an accusation, giving full details of an example, and branding somone a liar.

Strong enough in her convictions that she won't be sued.

Well done you.

You'd get my vote if I lived in your ward.

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Strange how folk are quick to brand some people who criticise our council as a 'Tory basher', yet seem unwilling to label them a 'Labour basher', when they do the same thing of our government.

Odd that.

Perhaps not too odd really I suppose.

It's the old one party blinkers they wear, but without which I can happily criticise or praise, wherever I see fit, regardless of which political party or nincompoop happens to be in charge.

:rolleyes:

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Why wait, lets hear what you know and who gave you the info.:confused:

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I've had second thoughts about these one party political blinkers, as I think they are only available in blue, and not red.

The Conservative supporters on here are quick enough to label people Tory bashers, if they dare to criticise the Tory run council, but I can't recall Labour party members doing the same when we criticise the Labour government. Indeed they sometimes join in the criticising.

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To be quite honest how could they defend this set of useless clowns that call itself a government. Its quite different to the time when all the Labour election leaflets were endorsed by Tony Blair, not long after when he became known as Tory Blair amongst the locals, they didn't want to be associated with Labour Nationally, But as the saying goes Rindi local or national they al use the same pot as to say, they are the same party whether they like it or not and will be judged accordingly

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Personally it baffles me when people try to defend some of the actions of the council, and it's leadership.

I suppose those blinkers only allow them to see a very narrow view of things, and not the overall picture.;)

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Here's a controversial thought,

Perhaps things work best when there are two strong opposing factions! Perhaps, PB and GJ need each other to create a balanced council, perhaps, the stronger the leader is the stronger the opposition needs to be. Yin and yang - creates balance and ultimately benefits the public.

So, whether they like or whether we like it or not, they both need each other and we need both of them.

Ok, now i'll go and hide. :D

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Why hide? For any kind of govenance to work yes there has to be opposition that is strong and able to fight for the benifit of the public. Yet there will be times when they need to work together for the common good. The more conflict between both sides there is then it is detrimental to the good of the populace at large.

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Gayle I actually agree with you, back in the mid 90s the council framework was 44 Labour 3 Tory councillors and to be quite honest it was pointless, much the same as the Tory Government in the 80s with 100 plus majorities and Labour Government in the late 90s early 2000 with 100 plus majorities. For any democracy to work there has to be a strong opposition otherwise you may just as well forget it altogether

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Interesting point Gayle. I would take issue on one point though, the present leader of the council being a strong leader.

Strong leaders don't prevent other people speaking, strong leaders are also prepared to listen to other peoples views. A strong leader doesn't throw personal abuse at people as a means of shutting them up. I could go on, but I'm sure you could include a few yourself.

Strong and effective leadership is fundamentally about being inclusive, not exclusive. What you see from the present leader of the council is weakness not strength.

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Are you suggesting that they are friends?
Maybe they go for a beer together and laugh at us lot being conned by them.
I wonder if Peter has gone away with Graham.

:D:D

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What would you know about leadership Bernard you've always been a bit part player, voting how your told to:rolleyes:

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Must have been a flaming long meeting,are they getting paid enough?:D:D:confused:

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By your reaction I assume you agree with me.

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Not being a member of any political party, nor indeed having always voted the same way, I tend to look at the evidence before me, rather than blindly attacking or defending any one team's performance.

Since I moved back here five years ago this is what I've seen to sway my opinion on H.B.C., and it's leadership.

Cons-

The idea that the name of the borough should be changed, which would have involved enormous expense, and brought no discernible benefits to the people or towns in Hyndburn.

The town/parish council idea. We were told every residence in Hyndburn would receive a form so their thoughts would be considered. We then discover many hundreds of homes never received a form, making that exercise a complete waste of time and money. That's aside from the fact that no one, including the council, knew what this new layer of bureaucracy would be responsible for, and which actual budgets they'd be able to raise money for. It might have been a great idea, but we'll never know, as it was presented before it was even half baked, and not even the council knew what it's purpose would be, though they did admit it would result in an increase in council tax.

The £591,000.00 that was granted to the council for a community internet forum, and was wasted on the now defunct site.

The £500,000.00 that was spent on refurbishing Broadway, which saw less seating, and those few seats there are were so badly designed that they remain wet even the day after it's last rained. I pass no judgement on the design quality of the various brushed steel modernernist street furniture, that is supposedly an improvement on what was there before.

The appalling and dangerous state of the town centre pavements.

The lack of money that's been allocated for essential maintenance of the parks in the borough.

A council who decide to buck every other trend, and go against the findings of an independent body, and award themselves massively increased allowances.

A council leader whose party two years ago voted for what equated to a 20% pay rise for that same council leader, again bucking the national trend of everyone else in the country's pay rise.

A leader who it's reported in the press called a fellow councillor a 'silly cow', at a publicly attended meeting in council chambers.

The placing of hanging baskets out of reach of shop owners, which saw many dead in a matter of days because they couldn't be watered, whilst the council's own truck drove past watering the ones they'd placed on the lamposts.

A council apparently committed to recycling, and issuing fines to those who refuse, yet making no provision for trade waste in the borough to be recycled, including that from council offices.

Pros-

The flower towers, and the Floral Market Town campaign.

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G that was shock n awe n left me nigh on speachless. :D

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Bernard is the senior member of the Council and you perhaps could show a little more respect. I also want people to speak to their mind and Bernard does that in spades. A great councillor with his heart set on the betterment of Hyndburn, not like The Leader with his head set on his own personal gain and fiefdom.

All you ever post on here is the opposite of the truth which is the collapse of local Tory Party. It's in it's dying days. People are fed up and want a positive agenda. Arguing, back stabbing, desertions, resignations, sackings, snipings have all destroyed Peter's empire.

Again, like everything else, the only narrative you have is to drag down the Labour Party to that level by made up stories.

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It is really ungentlemanly to say something like this unless you are prepared to provide evidence........and until evidence is provided it has to be up there with the nasty rumours and untruths.

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Nasty that Jaysay, thought better of you. Bernard is a straight talking gentleman who has the courage of his convictions and the cojones to show up to support his town's football and cricket team. To me, the small voter, the one with the ballot paper, that speaks volumes.

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Could not agree more Lindsay. Bernard has given a lifetime and his only ever wish is for the betterment of residents.

Bernard himself summed it up when he told Cllr Britcliffe that its sad the only agenda the Conservatives have is a negative one and that's not what residents want to hear. AndrewB, Jaysay, it's all negative. Bernard is resolutely positive and has been for 30 years.

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I don't really need to provide the evidence Margaret, as Mr Dawson knows that what I said is 100% true, as we were both there at the time and he was the only Labour councillor:rolleyes:

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I only post the opposite of the truth do I:confused:, party politics only exist because their are two sides to every story Graham, one sides truth is another sides lies, and you and your Ilk are not fire proof, far from it:rolleyes:

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I quite literally have not got a clue what you are talking about. I was the only labour councillor were?

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In a conversation between myself PB and your good self, after agreeing that a Tory amendment was a good idea, you then voted against it, when asked why, your reply was I had no choice we are told how to vote, it maybe a while ago but I tend to remember things like that, in the same way I remembered the vile abuse of an elderly Tory Lady councillor at a count

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No, that isn't right at all. If you make an allegation then you should provide the foundation and evidence for the allegation or it must be seen as rumour and untruth because WE do not know to what you are alluding.

Your allegations detract from you, not from the person you are making the allegation about if you do not provide evidence.

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Complete nonsense. I am disappointed that you have to resort to making stories up to justify you're resorting to personal abuse of another member of Accy Web.

It isn't difficult to see why you and Peter Britcliffe get on so well together.

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Same old, same old.

You say, and I've no reason to doubt you, that this was done by a Labour supporter, note not a councillor, and it is totally unacceptable and an example of gross bad manners, but when your little pal and our council leader calls a fellow councillor an abusive name, in public and in council chambers, you refuse to condem it.

This two wrongs somehow making a right just doesn't wash, because they most certainly don't.

Maybe it is an acceptable defence to the blind party faithful, who never seem to have the strength to criticise or rebuke their own side when they've quite clearly done something wrong, but it certainly doesn't wash with us, the non-partisan electorate.

We are sick of hearing the line 'it doesn't matter we've done something wrong, because they have as well'.:mad:

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I am not personally abusing anyone, if you, as usual have a selective memory, which is somewhat a trait with members of the Labour Party then so be it, I know what I heard and I may be lot of things but I am not and have never been I liar

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You are very good at making unfounded allegations, that you have not one shred of evidence for.

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We have seen on AccyWeb how often Tory supporters and Tories are willing to say the opposite of the truth and then accuse others of not telling the truth. I am disgusted that the senior member of the Council you see fit to make such an allegation.

It is becoming the pattern for a fag end of an administration and people are beginning to see it.

Even the hard right Independents are disgusted. 'Dictatorship' was the description last week by them in the Observer.

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I've watched this thread develop and it was bugging me who wrote the script... at last I've found the culprits.

To you, to me, to you, to me :)



http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...ainPicture.jpg

Re: Last Nights Council Meeting
 

Hyndburn matters and I would ask that you make a positive judgement rather than negative sniping or hand wringing. Sorry lancsdave but that's how I see it.

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Brilliant.....I will use that when a General Election comes along to all my ex-pat friends who are still entitled to vote.
I have never read such a load of twaddle in all my life and before the big 'G' gets back on his soapbox......I think he is backing an also ran.

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Same old same old, nothing useful to contribute , sniping against other members, get back to the bar Roy! Enjoy your time in the sun.:rolleyes:

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perhaps he's "Barred"?:D

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Sorry Graham but to the ordinary man in the street, of which I consider myself to be, this thread is an excellent example of why this country has such low turnouts in elections. It doesn't take long for the issues to go missing because polticians always turn things round to petty name calling and personal attacks. It happens on all sides so don't take that as a party poltical broadcast on my behalf, I'm actually a floating voter ;).

Of course Hyndburn matters, I'm not from here but have chosen to live here. I've also set up a business here ( not that the council 'appear' to do much for business here, especially retail business ) so I'm hardly likely not to want it to do well.

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So it is true what they sat about dingles being a little slow.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
Look at the post below, from a month ago.:D:D

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/679232-post62.html

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I could actually go on and on and draw this thread out, but whats the point, I could list the ten years worth of abuse a the hands of Labour activist, which included having to have an official tap put on my telephone, and the nice chap (or woman) that actually sent me a card when my mother died say it should have been you, you Tory B******, but of course in the gospel according to Jones these things don't happen, but they did, every week or ten years just because I used my democratic right to have my say

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Not had a lot of time to be on here, but it goes to show great minds think alike, just not all at the same time :D:D

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This is what happens when you get cheap Polish plumbers to do a job.

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God, this is getting tedious. John, you know damn well that Peter is, a lot of the time, a nasty vindictive man. He is currently moving meetings and changing times of meetings just so Graham cannot be there. Its ludicrous, the times of planning meetings have been changed from 2.30 to 11am to stop Graham attending, so people who have an application in have to take the full day off work now rather than an afternoon. This is being done out of PURE SPITE. So much for a leader who cares for Hyndburn, he couldn't give a toss about people, if he did he would be making it EASIER not harder for the members of the public who need to attend the meetings. The council is a service and as such should put the public first. Neil, I can assure you that there are NO splits in the Labour Group. I work with people I trust, indeed I would count many of them as personal friends, they are loyal, hardworking and passionate councillors and I'd defend any of them to the ends of the earth because I KNOW they are honest and work hard for the people they represent

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Well, I know who I would trust.......and his initials aren't PB.
I think there is only Jaysay who has a good word for him on here.


This is a purely personal opinion by the way.

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To be quite honest I haven't a clue whats going on at HBC Clare, I used to be kept quite up to date as I used to see Brian Walmsley every week but since both he and is wife started with health problems I don't see him very often, in fact I saw both Brian and his wife for the first time in six months when they popped into see me last Friday. As for Peter I haven't seen him since Mayday 2007, although I have spoken to him on the phone, on an odd occasion. The thing is I think the same about Graham Jones as you do about Peter only in Spades:rolleyes:

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I am glad to hear that. It is quite a while since I heard different from a couple of people so things must be good now. Seeing as a few have said everything is happy in the camp I think I can put the other rumours to bed.

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4 Labour Councillors post on here independently and the debate is honest. Lancsdave, you should be proud that people so honest represent you.

We may be wrong, we may get off the fence too often, none of it however is done with any other intention than including everybody in making Hyndburn great. Importantly, we are the only group of people on the Council committed to that.

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It's same old same old. Drag Labour Councillors down and it will all be much of muchness then. Then they'll win local votes simply because Gordon is unpopular.

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Original post.......:)

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Second post....I think you may be right about Gordon.

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They must kiss and make up very quickly Neil, its not that long since one of them ran out of a meeting crying, questioning the leaders legitimacy:rolleyes:

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If that is the case lets hope they have put it behind them. All we need now is for all Councillors from all parties to work together for the improvement of Hyndburn. I think we will be waiting a long time though.

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How do you come by this information?
Is the source reliable, or is it someone just mischief making and stirring, hoping to create unrest.

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People who were actually there at the time I was told the same story by three different people, none of which were PB

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Call me sad or weird or something but I actually like playing the "What's Peter up to now" game. I am currently watching a couple of things unfold to see if I guessed correctly.

I think this quote could well have been plagiarised from one of PB's secret cabinet meetings :D:D

Not sure which of the Tory Councillors was playing the part of Baldrick though - suggestions are welcome ;) :D

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As for them cunning, I think an mouldly old sack of turnips would possess more.

Now if we were discussing conning, that's a different matter.......:rolleyes::D

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That's just complete fabrication. You want to stick to writing about Wardrobe Monsters.

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Having read most of this thread (oops, accidental rhyme:eek:) with interest and not a little amusement, I agree with you ... England will win the World Cup before there is harmony, or at least a willingness to co-operate, in Hyndburn Council. Problem is, as I see it from outside, is party politics at the local level .... I can't for the life of me see what advantages there are in a system which stumbles on the pettiness of party at the local level. It has nothing to do with democracy; you don't need party politics to run a democratic local council; you need people commited to improve Hyndburn, and a group of independents could probably do a much better job.

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Labour Councillors try their best and are honest. Hyndburn Conservatives realise there are a lot Erics out there easily taken in. So Hynd.Tories tell as big a lie as possible because they know the Erics of this world make their judgements either somewhere in the middle, or somewhere in the middle but high up.

And of course progress is stifled not by Labour Councillors but by the Erics. Guilty of not looking at the arguments, asking intelligent questions, but getting tied up in the personalities. In the end it is the Eric's that give a mandate to rogue Councillors to carry on by not holding them to account.

I am on here to be scrutinised. Questioned. Told I am wrong. However you seem to have forgot Eric this process is about a better Hyndburn and not about trying to look better than people who are actually giving a lot and trying.

Sorry about expressing my opinion mate but it had to be said. Moralising fence sitters annoy me because there is nothing genuine about that line of thinking.

For the record, we work together a lot but the papers won't print that because the public want conflict. Any criticism is overplayed in the press ditto. I am not out for Party politics, pretty much 100% of what I do in Peel and 90% in Council is non political. If you bothered to meet me or contact me you would work that out in minutes.

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Q. E. D. And I've voted labor all my life (it's New Democratic Party here, same thing, only a little more to the left.), and never sat on any fences about it. But, locally, where my concerns are about infrastructure maintainance, snowplowing, policing, parking, development ... I don't think that "party" should have anything to do with it. All it adds is more petulant bickering.