Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 761091)

Seems to me Germany won the peace thru one thing .....hard work , rebuilding a country that had been bombed flat ,had lost over 1/2 its population , any piece of equipment worth a penny was shipped back east to Russia as 'reparations' ,and 90% of its female population aged over 12 yrs old in the eastern half of the country raped by the advancing Russian armies .
OK the Marshall plan did help in preventing famine ( it also did the same in other countries) and the fact that the UK and the US occupying powers also forbade the 'New Germany' from spending any of its budget on defense costs.
If anyone wants to know what helped the "German economic miracle" it was the mis-guided greed of British Govts and British businessmen .....yep the German Steel industry (Krupps etc.) had been bombed flat ....so what did the Brits do ...they sold/gave them brand new efficient steel plants which had been built in inefficient 60 year old British steel mills to create employment for British workers and then wondered why they couldn't compete ..... similar story with the British textile industry , how much modern state of the art equipment did companies like Bulloughs and Northrop sell overseas only to have the buyers turn round and bite the British textile manufactuers on the ass .

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 761093)

the USA poured cash into the then West Germany because of the threat of Russian communism.. as they did in Japan.
lets get things striaght..the red army held Berlin ..they took over and then invited the US army in.
the USA had no option other than attcking Russia which they did not use...instead they took the decision to re-build the parts they owned rather than let the then Russian communists take over. we all know the Yanks are obsessed with communities that don't work the way they like.

Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 761094)

Don't think your argument is valid , look at recent history , billions of aid to Afghanistan and its still a s**t-hole , a few million to Germany , they (the Germans) put it to good use and thrived . :D

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 761090)

you lot make me laugh.. there has been treaties signed since the Tories took us into this ...no out cry in those days so why do you tories all get upset about this treaty?

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 761115)

Do they not let you out that much these days, Mancie? ;) You really are out of touch with the modern world! Do you really think that the only people worried about the new European Constitution and the ever-advancing creep of the Euro Superstate are Tories? Wake up and smell the coffee!

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 761122)

"Mrs Rawcliffes Revenge" a true story about a Communist living in Leeds in the 1060 who was so disillusioned with Britain he decided to move to the other side of the Iron Curtain.

Originally Posted by Less (Post 761136)

Somehow jaysay I get the feeling you might mean the 1960's?

How come your keyboard never seems to work the way you want it to?:)

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 761122)

Mancie is obsessed with Tories Wynonie, (as in the hatred of:D) but what he doesn't realise is the political system he most favours is totally flawed, all this everybody is equal to the revolution brothers doesn't work now and has never worked in the past, even in the animal kingdom there is always the Alpha Male and Female in any pack.

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 761403)

cor blimey it's Doctor Mengle...next thing we know you'll be experimenting on twins... carry on then we can all see the truth about Tories.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 761418)

The truth about the Tories Mancie is they are the only ones capable of put right the wrongs always left by Labour, there has never been a successful Labour government in history, they have always left a disaster behind for others the clean up, and believe me this latest shower take the biscuit, we will be left with a massive debt while Gordon swans off back to Scotland and disappear into obscurity

Originally Posted by Mancie (Post 761093)

the USA poured cash into the then West Germany because of the threat of Russian communism.. as they did in Japan.
lets get things striaght..the red army held Berlin ..they took over and then invited the US army in.
the USA had no option other than attcking Russia which they did not use...instead they took the decision to re-build the parts they owned rather than let the then Russian communists take over. we all know the Yanks are obsessed with communities that don't work the way they like.

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J (Post 761725)

The US had an agreement with the USSR to meet on the Elber and the US armies arrived,sat on their bahookies and waited for the USSR to show up.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 761578)

Yup ... I think I'll go along with this .... naked self interest on the part of the US.