Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

...and the one with the blue rosette I suspect, and who shouldn't be too hard to work out to unmask as being similarly pig ignorant, as there has only been two Conservative councillors post on here, at least under their own names.

;)

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

two:confused::confused::confused:

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Yes two.

Is your memory failing you?

Both are Conservative councillors from Oswaldtwistle, one newly elected, and one who's been there for what seems way too long.

Just ask if you need anymore clues to which two Tory councillors have posted on the forum.

:D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

I know about the newly elected one, just thought the other one was an office:D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

May as well be -about as vacant as one oer the xmas holidays:rolleyes::D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

It was you, amongst others, that confirmed the rather grandly named member, HisMaster'sVoiceHBC, or whatever he called himself, was indeed your little chum Peter Britcliffe, even though he at first posted in the third person.

Two subsequent posts were made in the first person singular, but he mixed up his commas and full stops, making a mockery of the figures he gave referring to councillor's expenses.

Sadly he hasn't been seen since.

Still, at least you now know which two Tory councillers that have posted on here.

I was next going to give you the clues that their two first names rhymed with 'cheater' and 'rude biff'.

:D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

There's an element of political propaganda in both the calendars and the Christmas cards as you say.

But the point is that where as the Calendars are being funded by the Council Tax Payer, the Christmas cards are funded by individual Labour Councillors.

The Council tax payer should not be funding Political Propaganda.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

As previously mentioned, I disagree with the calendars. Your party's decision though, to not be pictured on them because you presumably lost a vote? means that you have made a calendar party political that would have been independent.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

It's the petty refusal to appear on the Area Management Calendar by the Labour representative that's made it political:rolleyes:

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

I would challenge anyone after they have looked at the calendars that have gone out, to tell me hand on heart that they are not political propaganda.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

I am yet to see/receive one. What makes them party political other than the lack of Labour councillors?

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

I'm not actually against the local Tories putting out calendars if that's what they want to do. But they shouldn't expect the Council Tax Payer to pay for them.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Does anyone really want to look at the mush of a local councillor everyday? I know I certainly wouldn't. Without wishing to get too personal, I'm sure their are much more pleasant images people would prefer to be confronted with when they look up at the kitchen noticeboard, whether it be scenic views of the Lake District or Playboy babes. ;)

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Bernard you said that when people look at the calendars they will see they are party political. Other than the lack of Labour councillors on them, what is party political?

They clearly represent a political purpose. Labour Councillors did in deed do Christmas cards much to the chagrain of the elderly and broke Conservative counterparts. In response The Leader decided that Labour Christmas cards could be nullified by Council Calendars making Labour Councillors look the most stupid doing both, one on tax payers money.

My own view is that Christmas cards are non council funded and delivered by councillors out amongst constituents.

Calendars are a complete waste. Badly designed, missing lots of information using money better spent on front line services. So regardless of anyones else's opinion my name will not be included in what is a complete waste.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

It's self evident there party political Andrew, there's only Tory Councillors on them. Have a look at the Ossy one Andrew, you'll see what I mean about being propaganda.

How do you draw those conclusions? Brown has managed the crises excellently. Yes it's a major downturn (-6%) but the worst of it (collapsing banks, 4m unemployed, 80,000 repossesions) hasn't happened. BTW all western countries are around -6%.

When have I ducked issues except the daft right wing ones you dig up from the Daily Mail that aren't worth responding too?

I do not agree with aspects of New Labour/Brown/Blair but that is democracy. Should Ken Clarke become a Euro sceptic just because most Tories are? He's still in the shadow cabinet.

I believe sometimes you are so party political you will disregard an argument for the betterment of all.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Six bleached out, pasty-faced, gurning mug shots, aren't my my preferred viewing for the year.

Like I said, mine's already ready to be recycled, but not wanting to be churlishly selfish, here's the Oswaldtwistle one, for those not lucky enough to have received one.

I'm just very thankful they're not dressed up as Mr. and Mrs. Bumble's Victorian parodies, because more than one or two of them could easily pass as the actors who played them in the film, Harry Secombe and Peggy Mount.

How do you draw those conclusions? Brown has managed the crises excellently. Yes it's a major downturn (-6%) but the worst of it (collapsing banks, 4m unemployed, 80,000 repossesions) hasn't happened. BTW all western countries are around -6%.

When have I ducked issues except the daft right wing ones you dig up from the Daily Mail that aren't worth responding too?

I do not agree with aspects of New Labour/Brown/Blair but that is democracy. Should Ken Clarke become a Euro sceptic just because most Tories are? He's still in the shadow cabinet.

I believe sometimes you are so party political you willfully disregard an argument even though it may be for the betterment of all.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

You have obviously seen them so I'm asking you what is on there that is 'propaganda'? If it is simply that only Tory Councillors appear, then the councillors who refused to be on the calendar have made it party political. It was to be an independent council provided calendar before they withdrew.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

The caption under the photograph reads....

'Area Management Councilllors at the new Tesco built on the site of the old Fire Station.'

Just as a point of order, there should be a comma, after Tesco, otherwise it makes no sense.

Shouldn't really have expected anything else, after HisMaster'sVoiceHBC got the commas mixed up, the last time he posted on here.

Though nice to see them celebrating a multi-national (Tory owned company) moving in, and stealing the trade off local businesses that have been in Ossy for decades, and are now suffering.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

There was no voting in the Area Management Councils about the calendars - so the Labour Group did not lose a vote (as you appear to be implying).
However I can tell you that at the West Accrington Area Management Board meeting held in November all the board members present (there were approx 20 members present - which included 3 ward councillors - 2 Labour and 1 Tory) voted against having a calendar with one person abstaining.

Unlike the Area Management Councils (whose calendars were paid for by the Cabinet Action Fund), the Area Management Boards were being expected to pay for the calendars out of Revenue money.


Andrew maybe you could explain why the decision was made party political if there was no vote taken by the Area Management Councils. And any decisions made by the Area Management Boards, are made by the board members (the majority of whom are not councillors).

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Agree with you on the Tesco thing. I didn't realise it was a Tory owned company though. :rolleyes:

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

How was it decided to have calendars if no vote took place?

The calendar itself looks party political because some councillors withdrew from being displayed on the calendars.

Perhaps you could answer my earlier question of when Area Management Board meetings are, where they are, and how you get on them?

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

I forget you're only a nipper.:D

Owned by disgraced former leader of Westminster Council, Dame Shirley Porter, now exiled in Tel Aviv.

Google her for the whole sorry tale of her fall from grace.

Although she probably couldn't give two hoots, as she counts the shekels rolling in as profit, from her hide-away in Israel.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

The offending item in all its glory! Muchas gracias, Gary. If I got one of those, I'd do the same as you. I'll stick with Kathy West on my kitchen noticeboard, thanks! :D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

I'd rather have Rosemary West staring at me from the kitchen wall for a year, than the motley crew pictured on the calendar.

:eek:

:D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Strange, I thought PLCs were owned by anybody who held shares in the company rather than being the daughter of the person who originally established the company!

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Costing us over five hundered quid, of our money, and no numpty thought it should be proof read?

There's not exactly a lot of text on it, so you'd have thought what little there was would at least be correct.

Shoddy.

Very shoddy.

Very shoddy, and an expensive waste of our money.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

She was the main heiress to the majority share holder and founder. Your Googling needs some improvement.;)

How much is she worth?
In January 2002, when her assets were seized, Dame Shirley told the courts that she only had £300,000 to her name. But previously, at least, she owned significantly more as one of the heiresses to her father Jack Cohen's Tesco empire. According to the Sunday Times' rich list her wealth in 2001 was estimated to be £69m. Others put her combined wealth at more than £300m.
Q&A: Dame Shirley Porter | Society | Society Guardian

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Perhaps next time to avoid confusion you could write 'was once owned by a Conservative'. Subtle, but important. :D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

An independent council provided calendar Andrew. You obviously don't know the leader of the Council.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Would look pretty independent to me having all the Conservative, Labour and Independent councillors for the area together as originally planned before Labour withdrew.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

The last time I rifled through her bins she was still a major shareholder, along with other members of the Cohen family.;)

I'll leave subtlety for others to trifle with on here.;)

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Perhaps it's her movement to Israel that has prevented you from riffling through her bins of late to keep up to date. :D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

It has nothing to do with who isn't on and everything to do with who rook the decision and why in the first place. Is that not obvious?

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Back to where we started Andrew. Labour Councillors didn't support the calendar because we thought that Council Tax Money could be better spent.

It has nothing to do with who isn't on and everything to do with who took the decision and why in the first place. Is that not obvious?

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

If the calendar included all of the councillors, the decision to print it would be party political, but the actual calendar would not be party political. Now that Labour have withdrawn, the calendar appears party political as on some calendars there are only Conservative members. This means that the money is even more of a waste because residents are only getting half the picture.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

I think you're about there Andrew. People don't want Labour on it and don't want Cknserativ either. The fact that Conservatives are on and have printed it makes it party political and Labour Councillors were right IMO to stay away from this sort of cheap political propaganda on the rates. Lets spend the money on front line services.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

ya do come wi some rubbish, more of a waste, it means just the same as initial waste, pathetic really.:rolleyes: n fact not everyone got em makes it even more so.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

:D..and there's me thinkin that Labour could spin.."it's a waste because they only get half the picture" :D..pure class!

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

The calendars are a waste of money. If all the councillors information on it would still be a waste of money.

The fact that they're being produced with only half of the information on to me seems like they're even more wasteful as they have even less value to residents.

If I give you a piece of paper with some councillors contact details on but not others, and a piece of paper with all the councillors on. I produced them at roughly the same cost - which one is more useful to you?

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Keep studying maybe one day sense will appear.:rolleyes:

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Are both pieces of paper the same use to you then?

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

none are of any use if not everyone gets one, but that don't seem to register to a tory.Robber baron (industrialist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

If as you say it is a waste of money to distribute this rubbish in the first place then how can it be "an even more" waste of money if some council members are not on it?..it's a waste of money no matter how you lot dress it up.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

I already said that the calendar is a waste of money. In the analogy the paper would also be a waste of money. What I'm asking is which piece of paper is more valuable or useful to you? You might well say 'neither are useful because I already know how to contact my councillor' which is quite valid, and why I think the calendars are a waste of time. However given that they have been produced and the money spent (which we both disagree with), which one is most useful?

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

The mind boggles at how a thread about a poxy calendar can generate so much interest. As I've said before on accyweb I'm just grateful politics was never my thing, don't think I could cope with all the petty arguing.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

It's the "calender war"..and it ain't poxy.. it's by proxy from the Tories cos it get shoved through yer door.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

don't regard it as petty arguing, just regard it as if a balloon gets over inflated, its my task in life to puncture it.:D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Note no answer to the question though cashman. Always thought you were a straight talker. :rolleyes:

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

the straight answer dear boy is as you admit it was a waste of peoples money printing the thing, simple as. but rather than just blame those who wasted it, you choose to share the blame with folk who wanted nothing to do with it, which pleases me no end, cos anyone with a grain of sense can see fer themselves how YOU people operate,n whats more amazing is yer to numb to see it. is that straight enough?

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

I am criticising both sides. Tells a lot when you still cannot answer the question given. Blind faith. Suppose it is Christmas. :D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

I think some politicans become so removed from the reality of many people's daily lives, that they regard revenue raised from taxes as being something that grows on trees. As was notably examplified by the shameful abuses seen in the expeses scandal nationally, and locally when some councillors chose to ignore independently guided expense levels, and decided to award themselves grossly inflated increases.

It isn't.

Every penny people pay in tax, in this case council tax, is hard earned, and this frittering away on a totally unncessary calendar, under the guise of letting people know how to contact their councillors, is just another example of the high and might aloofness of some of our elected representatives.

My mum, amongst countless others, lives in Ossy.

Her council tax is well over a thousand pounds.

The cost of this calendar was apparently £533.00.

So in real terms this means a still working pensioner, gets up at stupid o'clock four mornings a week, rolls by hand over four hundred teacakes by eight o'clock, in order to be able to pay her council tax.

In theory half her yearly payements are being used on the piece of trash, delivered to some residents, but not all.

Is it worth all my mum's efforts, or anyone else's, working hard and struggling to pay the ever increasing council tax bills?

No, it damn well isn't.

Perhaps some of the high and mighty might have a different view, when they're eventually knocked off their perches, in their gilded cages.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

this week I got a card from the local MP Simon Hughes..not my best mate but I've known him for years..nice big card but what is the use of all this?..I don't reckon Mr Hughes paid for the card and postage...seems to me it's just a reminder that these people are MP's or from any local council and is a shot of political propaganda.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Yeah nice bloke.

Won the dirtiest by election in living memory, used disgraceful homophobic attacts against the Labour candidate Peter Thatchell, to secure his victory...then came out as gay himself many years later.

A highly principled politican, one of many we are lucky enough to have.

:rolleyes:

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

I know Peter as much as he shopped down East Street Market..I would describe him as a political animal ..and I have no doubt he would have been sending out Christmas cards at the tax payers cost on behalf of Labour if he had won that election.
Simon Hughes is not best loved in these parts but he is the option to keep the Tories out.. and that is the real target..merry xmas.:)

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

From a local calendar in Ossy to political sheenanigans in East London in 158 posts. I love Accyweb! :D Merry Christmas.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Bermondsey's actually sarf Lahndan, not in the east, but I take your point about the interesting course some threads take.

:D

Merry Christmas to you too.

:)

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Shows how far Jones is up himself when he has to post things twice to get this point over and just how sad is it when people spend Christmas Eve arguing about a bloody calendar:rolleyes:

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Merry Christmas:)

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

It is quiet on here at the moment :rolleyes::D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Kim is enjoying cooking and Alana I asleep after opening her presents from 8am.

With a gap and listening to the radio rather than watching the box Ive a moment to say as a passionate Hyndburnite,

I didn't post twice deliberatly John, twas accident.

And on that note: a very Merry Christmas to all. Wish you all well.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

As opposed to actually doing it on Christmas day?

;)

It was simply a total waste of people's hard earned money, and if it had been done by people's political opponents, even the most blinkered party faithful would agree.

;)

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Go on then Graham seeing its Christmas I'll believe you:D May I just say what a nice name you gave your little one, unusual, cannot say I've heard that name before:mosher:

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Good will to all men!

You being nice to Graham?

Next you'll be trimming poor Tiny Tim's crutch with tinsel, and sending for the biggest turkey in the shop to be delived to the Cratchit's house.

God bless us everyone, and long may this mutual respect continue.

I've got a football, if you two want to have a knock about in no man's land.

:D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

As you said tis the season of good will to all men, even Graham, but forget the football, can't make it to France:D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

At least you both support the same football team.

Merry Christmas everyone.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

This thread was boring enough before you lot mentioned football :rolleyes::D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

the question andrew,is a non question in my book, the "Whole" point is simple, its a waste of public money, simple as that. the fact you are too slow to see it is not my fault.:rolleyes: i would still say the same if the boot were on the other foot n labour held majority in town n they did it, summat thats well beyond you.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

well it wern't me that started all this jack n orny was it guv?..Iim just a bloke shovin his 2 pence in!

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

You mean he has something in common with PB too:eek::eek::eek::eek::D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

So, the leader of the council and the leader of the opposition, both don't support the local football club?

Disgraceful.

Thread wander? Moi? ;)

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Ya wander back to the Stanley section:D Rovers is local football club anyway:rolleyes:

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

It's not in the borough these councillors represent. They should be turning up regularly to support the borough's football league club. Cashy manages it and he's a Rovers fan. Why can't they?

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Why should they?

You can hardly expect Local Polititions to support everything in the Borough. We have Councillors that support Burnley as well as Blackburn.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

They should be supporting things which promote the borough nationwide (which Stanley does more than anything else) and, as they're football fans in the first place, it would hardly be an ordeal for them...and the same goes for Clare Pritchard, too.

I seem to remember PB spoutng about how people should support their local football club and how important it is to the borough. Do as I say, not as I do? :rolleyes:

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Agree it's a waste. Have said that for some time cashy. You're choosing to ignore the below though which helps to illustrate my point. It's a waste of money but at least to some people it will be valuable. It's less valuable or useful to those people because it lacks some of the councillors contact details.

It is like saying which is more of a waste, the council flushing £500 down the loo, or the council giving Oswaldtwistle calendars for £500? Obviously flushing it down the loo isn't much use to anybody, the calendars will be useful to some people. Same monetary cost, but one is more wasteful than the other.

If I give you a piece of paper with some councillors contact details on but not others, and a piece of paper with all the councillors on. I produced them at roughly the same cost - which one is more useful to you?

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

What an absolutle and utter load of bull. Face it, Andrew, it's a costly exercise in self-indulgence by a bunch of people who should be looking to cut costs to the hard-pressed local taxpayer rather than increase them and no amount of convoluted arguments about flushing things down toilets will change that. :rolleyes:

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

I agree it's a waste of money. Interesting that you do not challenge the argument though - simply state it is an 'absolute and utter load of bull.' Do you disagree that something can be more or less valuable than the cost and therefore more or less wasteful or what? :confused:

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

It's a waste of time fullstop, because people don't need a calendar to get the contact details of their local councillor - they can get it from plenty of other sources, as you've been told time and time again on this thread.

Is this a Tory trait - to keep defending the indefensible with increasingly ridiculous arguments? :rolleyes:

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Not defending the indefensible. Have said over and over that it is a total waste of money. Am criticising both sides - have put down simple questions and arguments as to why both sides are in the wrong. Only opposition to those questions have not been attempts to answer but simply to ignore them and just agree with the criticism of the Tories.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

OK...

It's always handy to have contact details of Councillors to hand and it makes sense that these are provided to you at the beginning of the year in a form that you can make use of even if you don't intend on making use of the contact details, so that it isn't a waste as such. You never know when you might need to contact one of these people, because you never know 100% what you are going to have to deal with in the future.

The fact that labour councillors didn't allow their contact details to be included is petty and to be honest, surely a little bit stupid? Not only have they made it impossible for people to see their contact details alongside the opposition and decreased the value of the calender they're claiming is a waste of money in the first place, but they've also left people wondering where their Labour party is... why aren't they visible in their area?

Maybe Labour just want to shoot itself in the foot all the time?

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

not to me it dont,it merely helps to illustrate how baised ya are as well as stupid,

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

I'm 'biased and stupid' for criticising both sides. You on the other hand refuse to even engage in the argument and answer the question. :rolleyes:

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

You can't call a member of our moderation team stupid.

Go on Andrew ban him :p:D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

i just did. when you start adding to something that is inherantly wrong, like wasting public money, i cannot call it owt else.:rolleyes:

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Labour could have taken the opportunity to provide the details on this calender. Instead, they waste money on christmas cards with details and calenders on them that will be mostly thrown away come new year because they are only fitting for the christmas period.

Now it's lovely to send out a christmas message, but if we are going to start talking about what politicians should and shouldn't spend money on, I'd pick a yearlong useful calender with the contact details of ALL councillors on it over a christmas card any day.

But what do I know, I've not received anything this year off any councillors :p

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

thats true blaze,what do ya know? the money fer the xmas cards were paid fer by the labour councillors own pockets,NOT public money,stick to law yer on safer ground.:rolleyes::D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

That's it, Blazey, go jumping in with both feet on a subject you know sod all about and get it totally WRONG!

You and Andrew make a great pair...seen nowt, done nowt, know nowt. :D

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Why did the labour councillors request their details to be removed?Would it be too much work for them to have people know who they are so that people can contact them?Just curious.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Because it does not improve the Borough and involves spending some one else's money to do it.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

I have not received anything either this year from any councillors.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Well, do you actually want a calendar up on your wall with a picture of half a dozen distinctly ordinary middle-aged people posing rather woodenly in front of a supermarket? Wouldn't you rather have a calendar with pictures of tropical sunsets or hunks of the month or something? If you want the contact numbers of any local councillors, you can get 'em easily enough on the HBC website or from other sources.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

But blazey the calendar is only valid for the first 4 months of the year ... dont forget elections are held the first thursday in May ... and what happens if a councillor is named on the calendar either decides not to stand or is not re-elected ... then its out of date ....

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

So you agree that the calendars are a total waste of council tax payer's money per se?

Yet you are also criticising those councillors who opposed and didn't appear on the calendars?

So are you saying that if the calendars had the details of all the relevant councillors on them, they would be worth the cost to the tax payers who've funded them?

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

As Cashy said, they can do what the hell they like with their own money, as unlike the calendars they weren't funded from the public purse...a purse which is filled by the hard working people of this borough.

As for the calendars being kept, and the cards being thrown away after Christmas, I presume you haven't actually seen the calendars.

The biggest load of unaesthetic, ugly, unproofed, piece of crap design, produced since the logo for London 2012 was unveiled.

Only a sick masochist would enjoy the pain of seeing that staring at them throughout the year.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

Er...because they thought it was a waste of tax payers money, especially when not everyone in the borough has been sent a calendar, and the details of how to contact your councillors are already easily and readily available...for free.

Re: Area Management Calendars 2010
 

:lol::lol::smile:

Yep, that just about sums it up!