Sunday Trading
 

Jaysay & Andrewb's boss has called for an end to half-day closing and asked for town centre shops to open on Sundays. He wants to market the town as a 'Major Shopping Centre'.
Would it work for Accrington? I don't think so because people only have a set amount to spend each week, spread over 6 or 7 days this amount will remain the same.
It must also pose somewhat of a moral dilemma for jaysay. Does he support his leader or does he (as a catholic) oppose him on the matter of Sunday trading?

Call to end Accrington Wednesday half-day trading

Keep Sunday Special

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Err, I have no boss. Who has asked for it? The first link doesn't work.

At the end of the day it should be up to the shops, do they think it's financially viable to stay open? I personally think it's a good idea. I don't subscribe to the argument that people only have the same to spend, it's about convenience. You could well argue that they should only open once a week if it wasn't about convenience.

We do need to think about refusing certain types of shops though. If we want to become a 'major shopping centre', then a sea of pound shops and bookies is not going to cut it.

Nationally the abolition would be good too. It seems daft that depending on the day of the week I may order something and it come next day, but shove another letter in front of the day and I have to wait 3 or 4 days.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Er...in the world of reality, I think you'll find that most hard working families live within the constraints of a very tight budget, and don't have a bottomless pit of money to spend on whatever takes their fancy.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

I think you'll find you quoted me completely out of context. The point of me saying that was not, as your selective quoting suggests, that people have more money to spend. It was that of convenience.

Is this how low you'll go?

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Full sentenced quoted, if it makes you happier.

It's quite clear that you've posted that you think don't think 'people only have the same to spend', regardless of how long businesses are allowed to trade.

This is wrong. Most hard working folk, after paying all their bills etc, have only a limited amount to spend each week on food, and consumer durables etc.

If shops and stores trade 24/7, and you think people will magically spend more than their budget allows, you're wrong.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

he can't explain what he means correctly, he's only at uni.:D

Re: Sunday Trading
 

As posted the other day, low.

Lower than a snake's belly. If need be.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

if he thought that was low-------------------------- aint seen nothing yet.:D

Re: Sunday Trading
 

That is not at all what I meant or said. Not subscribing to the particular argument that yerself put forward, against Sunday Trading, does NOT mean I suddenly think families will have more money because of an additional day of shopping! Never did I mention that. I simply stated that I do not subscribe to his against argument, as it's not about the money spent, it's about convenience for the shopper. Not subscribing to a particular argument on why we shouldn't have Sunday Trading, does not mean I think the opposite, it means I don't think it's a good case to argue the point on, as it misses the issue of convenience.

Hope this is clear now that I have repeated myself three times. Please stop trying to be so adversarial when there is no need. You're interpreting something how you wish, because you can post some petty points.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

I find it much easier to post what I actually meant to say, and believe, in the first place.

Then I don't have to waste my time backpedaling, and trying to shamefacedly cover my tracks.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

That is what I did. Post what I believed in the first place. You just chose to interpret it in a way that allowed you to make some petty point, rather than address the issue and have a debate.

I'm not going to write reams of essay like posts, gone over with every nip and tuck sealed from any loophole you may find, just for your benefit.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Andrew ya did not put it very clearly in yer first response! no need to write reams of essay, just say what ya mean clearly.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

What you said, is there for all to clearly see, and doesn't seem at all ambiguous, as to what you meant, despite your subsequent backtracking.

If you can't see this, or are posting things you don't fully comprehend the meaning of, I pity you. As that must be a most unfortunate attribute to have.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

The first link worked when I posted it. Try this:
Call to end Accrington's Wednesday half-day trading (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Same sort of thinking from Cllr. Britcliffe, as when he tried to impose 'continental café culture' on Accrington, despite the amount of lashing rain we get locally, and the biting cold wind, that blows infront of the Town Hall, even in summer.

I don't remember Britcliffe's sweetie shop, or frock shop, being open 24/7.

Perhaps in reality it was realised people only have a certain amount of money to spend, and that the costs, staff, utility bills etc, meant it wasn't financially worthwhile.

Remember, if the newly refurbished Market Hall doesn't attract the promised arts and crafts stalls, and it doesn't become a major tourist attraction, it's your own fault, for spending your money on fripperies like food and drink, rather than on a pebble say, painted with a pretty picture of a Pendle witch on it.

Since the busiest day in Accrington is no longer market days, but when the flea market, or knock-off day, is on, perhaps they should just turn Accrington into some 24/7 car boot Mecca.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

I think if people want to open then they should be allowed to, half day closing is just daft nowadays, i guess Market forces would govern if it was viable. It would give people extra choice on what to do if Sunday trading on a regular basis was available locally...lets face it people these days do choose to shop on Sunday's and will go where the shops are open, so if this was encouraged in Hyndburn then i cant see why people wouldn't make use of it. The main thing is to get the area up and running as a viable shopping alternative to other towns, which will take more than just an alteration in opening hours, but i would call it a positive move in the main.


Best Regards - Taggy

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Don't think its viable unless ya got good shops/stores to open n accy sadly aint.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

it would create more jobs

Re: Sunday Trading
 

in n ideal world shaz yeh, but ya gotta take enough money to justify all overheads that creates, n do ya think it would wi the shops accys got?:confused:

Re: Sunday Trading
 

thats true

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Err I have no boss, and I make my own mind up, I'm not a Labour Party, Member, who's only answer to the command Jump is how high:rolleyes:

As for Sunday shopping, I'm not bothered one way or the other as I don't go shopping anymore

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Does PB actually go down town on a Wednesday. The only place I can think of that is closed all day is the COUNCIL RUN MARKET HALL :eek:

When we moved in to the shop we closed Wednesday and opened Sunday. After a couple of weeks we changed it round. Sundays are dead, and it isn't going to change much because the bookies don't have much to bet on Sunday's :rolleyes:

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Me i would be lost without Sunday shopping as i work most Saturdays. All I want to do Saturday afternoon is put my feet up n chill out. Then Sunday I can go shopping. Its not everyones cup of tea but we are now in a 24/7 world whether we like it or not. Very few shops up here have a half day during the week or close on Sunday. Depends on the shop owner though if they can afford to stay closed that i doubt they can.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

now spugs they have to stay open up yon,less chance of being burgaled.:D

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Rugger didnt think of that. :eek: A good point.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Are you getting confused? I thought that was the conservatives when Dame Hilda was leader.:D

Re: Sunday Trading
 

The death knell was sounded for town centres when Councils granted permission to build out of town shopping areas.
Free parking, easy access and 7 day week trading.
Any wonder why town centres are stuffed.
And don't blame any particular party, the decisions were reached by Politicians / Councillors who wouldn't recognise a good idea if it came along and bit them.

Accrington as a traditional Victorian market town with quaint shops was suggested many years ago to attract out of town tourists. This was rejected in favour of the abomination of a town centre you have got now.

Now you want to promote Sunday trading.

Errr

Bolted, stable, horse, door ..........................................

Re: Sunday Trading
 

ther eis one major ingredient missing from this plan..

shops !

we dont have any lol

ok we got a few poundshops but lets face it if you want anything theres plenty of places to get what you want on a sunday such as asda and whitebirk.Who in tehir right mind is going to pay more to shop in town center when you can save money shopping at suermarkets and on industrial estates in such places like commet.

teh new tesco wont help accy center any either so teh council need to make tehir mind up who they are supporting local buisness or multi million pound companies by allowing them to set up in our town

theres a housing shortage and what does our council do , demolishes hundreds of houses and moves in an un-needed supermarket instead of allowing more affordable housing to be built to replace what was demolished

Re: Sunday Trading
 

No its always been a trait of Labour, look what they did to poor George Slynn because he objected to LCC closing nursing homes, he was dumped:rolleyes:

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Did not the loss of a large car park in Accrington not add to the loss of shoppers and thus shops?

Re: Sunday Trading
 

to simply put it yes

they took away a huge land level carpark and built teh arndale on it then in another stupid decision built a tax office on the other carpark

all that happened when the arndale was built was currys,dixon, virgin media etc moved into it and left empty shops on broadway which were filled by scope and various other charity shops

between the countless times broadway has been dug up and lack of shops or over abundance of charity shops people have got fed up and spend there time and money elsewhere

Re: Sunday Trading
 

I don't think so Webglynne .. the Arndale multi-storey has lots more parking spaces .. and all free.

You've got to blame the fact too that most people can afford 'the car' and gives them access to do more bulk shopping at one hit (supermarkets) and also electrical retailers .. easy to get most of these goods in your car, rather than try to cart home on the bus.

Mind you .. look at all the extra products we demand now that were not in existence a few decades ago ... cleaning products for instance. Window/Bathroom/Kitchen/Furniture Polish/Room sprays/Washing conditioners/Floor/Oven cleaners .. the list goes on and on. So bulk has really become bulk.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Don't buy those expensive(poisonous) cleaners, just get yourself a few of these-
http://www.e-cloth.com/

Re: Sunday Trading
 

:D Think I have got one of those somewhere ... was given a free sample at an Exhibition I was attending.

Mind you Margaret ... the cleaners were just one area of what we buy now ... look at body products for instance (toilet rolls ... LOL) ... and the alcohol we can now afford to buy on a regular basis. Hic. The list is endless for what we consider now for essential living.

Re: Sunday trading .. I would like to see it in Accy ... irrespective of the budgets people have, this does include luxuries which lots of people appear to be able to afford e.g. clothes, mobile phones, holidays, etc ... good to browse for these on an extra day, and I have to go to Blackburn on a Sunday for these.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

I do seems to recall when the car park was due to close people from well out of town objecting as they drove into acccrington for the free easy access lots of parking.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

problem with the arndale car park = its too narrow n badly spaced n lit, very poor design, i know quite a few that stopped shopping in accy because of this, also know quite a few that park on Aldi, or King St, fer same reason, so yes i'm sure people stopped using accy centre, but cos of the car park, not the arndale, we did have dixons n others when it first opened, Why did they cease? ya gotta ask yerself, cos many stopped coming accy centre is the answer, don't take rocket science, just thought.:rolleyes:

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Your right with that Cashy...i parked on it once, not long after it was built...horrible place, never used it since!

Best Regards - Taggy

Re: Sunday Trading
 

How ridculous Cashy ... agree re. the poor lit .. can't see very well to put my lippy on after I have parked.... :D:D

Apart from that ... it is a very easy car park ... wide ramps, wide parking spaces, easy access by lift or stairs,can always find a space ... humph .. must be men drivers. :rolleyes:

Believe me, lots of worse in the UK .. and I have parked on more than most.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Lippy after leaving the car:confused:

Re: Sunday Trading
 

its you thats ridiculous also ignorant cos i dont tell lies,:(

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Paris will not use it, nor will quite a few of her mates, Taggy has just stated he won't, n i know quite a few, thats how ridiculous it is.:(

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Always baffles me that one of the ramps is narrower than the other.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Sorry .. will not change my opinion that the car park is to blame. Still stick to my opinion that this is a very acceptable easy manoeuvrable car park.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Wasn't suggesting you told lies Cashy .. just didn't agree with your perception of the car park.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Said it before, will say it one last time DEMOGRAPHICS, if you don't understand it, google, it; that's why Accy is dead on it's arse, that's why we have no River Island, no Next. Not difficult really.:rolleyes:

Re: Sunday Trading
 

can't buy that at all linds, even the dead beats buy good white goods n the like,even if it is on the tick.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

So which part of demographics has stores like Next and River Island turned us down on Lindsay ? They have been invited on numerous occasions so I believe.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Burtons and Dorothy Perkins are just about surviving. Next and River Island know that they wouldn't make enough turnover in a town like Accy.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

its not just my perception its quite a few peoples, so to state its ridiculous is ignorant in my eyes.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Well, whether I be an ignoramus in your eyes Cashy .. still think it ridiculous to blame the car park for loss of business in our town. Might be a few people who agree with you on the construction of our car park ... you will only hear the ones that grumble, not the ones that don't.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

try asking people that use it fer there opinions, i use it dont like it, but its handy fer me, i have asked people oer the years you try it n then say its ok.:rolleyes:

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Sorry Katex , have to agree with Cashy and the others on this one , last used it 10 years ago and thought the layout was rubbish, the parking slots are designed for those little toy matchbox Fiat 500s , think it was designed by a graduate with a weight watchers degree ;)

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Well, Steeljack ... I drive a Toyota Avensis which is wider than most cars @ 1.71 mtrs (or 67.3" for our American cousins) and have never had a problem in getting into a space on this car park (and exiting my car). A Fiat 500 is only 1.32 mtrs.

It's not the perfect car park, but still stick to my statement that as against other car parks I have experienced in my journeys of 30,000 miles per year, 'ain't that bad. Still nowt to do with the lack of trade in Accy.

Try Charter Walk in Burnley for instance ... that's a little awkward sod... well used though.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

I've never used the Arndale car park that much, I've always tried to avoid it. We were told when they built it that it was the standard design for Arndale car parks at the time.

I also believe that if you know the centre Accrington, it's not that difficult to find somewhere to park, and still avoid using the Arndale car park.

People may not like the Arndale car park, but I'm not convinced that's what keeps the majority of people from shopping in Accrington.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

i'm convinced that its stopped people bernard, causing revenue loss, therefore the stores we used to have had reduced profits. it sure hasn't helped.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

I'm not a big fan of the car park, but is it any easier to park say in Blackburn, Burnley or any other nearby town.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

is in blackburn thats fer sure, avoid dingletown so can't really say. Paris prefers both of em to accys.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Must admit, love this new tower Blackburn have erected to get to their refurbished (eventually .. :rolleyes:) car park.

Attachment 15612 Attachment 15613

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Is there any money left for the carpark or is it being put aside for the window cleaners?

Re: Sunday Trading
 

my sister wont use the accy arndale carpark .. she has a 4x4 .. before christmas she parked at the bottom of burnley road .. next to the pendle witch shop rather than use the car park even though she had a large heavy box to carry ...

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Have they kidnapped the Arndale clock and holding it hostage ? :D

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Not totally sure you're right there. From what I can see, the demographic is pretty much what you would see in many town centres. If the shops don't fit the demographic then why is no one opening stores that do?

Accrington has a very good little infrastructure with free parking and a decent shopping centre but the odd Next or River Island is not going to turn it around. It needs an influx of big name shops to attract more people and if it isn't an attractive prospect then lower the rents for the shops! Anything decent paying full rent is better than an empty unit.

I personally think that it has an awful lot of potential and the only possible thing holding it back is charging rent which doesn't make financial sense at this time. That will be the root of the problem, money usually is.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

'Hyndburn is the 40th most deprived out of 354 council areas. Unemployment is higher than the Lancashire, national and regional averages. There are areas within the borough where long term unemployment and the number of people out of work have contributed to some wards featuring in the worst 10 per cent in England. About one in three residents live in the most disadvantaged 20 per cent of neighbourhoods.'
http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/downloa...Assessment.pdf


...i.e. a place not over run with young urban professionals, or YUPPIES.

;)

It's exactly these sort of figures companies look at, when planning whether an area can financially support their businesses. That, and the historical figure of the number of other similar businesses, who opened, and have since closed. Of which we have many examples in Accrington over the last twenty years.

If you really think the area's socio-economic demographic rates highly on a national scale, perhaps it's time you travelled a bit more, and opened your eyes.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Not going to let that word drop, are you?

It's nothing to do with thinking that the socio-economic demographic rates highly, more that a shopping district with decent amenities will do better than one which has been allowed to run down. Take Preston as an example - Friargate had gone into quite a decline but a collaboration of public and private sector investment totally turned it around within a year.

All town centres need occasional regeneration schemes and Accrington is clearly no different. I'm not suggesting that shoppers are better off than they make out, but I go to Blackburn town centre far more because of the better range of shops. I suspect many other shoppers do exactly the same - people go where they can get what they want.

Accrington has a brilliant setup and I would never knock it but the more empty units you have, the more people will start looking at it as being a bit tatty.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

I mentioned it only because I've never seen anyone in the area I'd personally describe as a 'Yuppie'.

A name devised in the eighties to describe the newly professional, with excessive salaries, and therefore large disposable incomes. As examplified by the characters in the films Wall Street, and American Psycho.

If you think that large retail consortiums don't look at all available demographic information, when planning where to site their businesses, you're wrong. I know that as fact, having worked in the industry.

The fact is that the vast majority of people in this area don't have large disposable incomes, to spend on luxuries such as high end fashion, coffee shops etc, but we do have an adequate supply of pound and charity shops.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

When the Accyweb awards come round I'll nominate you for the best under-statement of the year :D

Re: Sunday Trading
 

I noticed on Graham Jone's blog you were protesting at the closure of the HSBC bank in Rishton, and petitioning to keep it open.

While that is laudable, ultimately any business that has the facts and figures which prove that a branch is no longer profitable as a going concern, would also arrive at a similar decision.

All retail outlets, whether selling designer handbags or financial services, are out to make a profit. That's a simple economic fact. They aren't in existence to provide a public service. They are there to put money into the pockets of their owners and/or shareholders.

Someone could start a petition to bring Prada, Gucci and Harvey Nichols to Accy's Broadway.

It'll never happen, because this area doesn't have the demographic to support mid market chains such as Karen Millen, Next etc, nevermind the luxury market end of the retail industry.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

When Gayle pulls her finger out - hint hint :rolleyes:

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Rindy - never knowingly understated.

:rolleyes::D

The frightening thing is even some of the better end charity shops are pulling out of the area.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Is that a nomination for Gayle?

Best use of fingers award.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

There is room for some of that. Everything we sell is over a pound and we survive :p

Re: Sunday Trading
 

I'll give you your dues, you've researched me well. However, if people aren't prepared to fight against things which are not in the best interests of their village, even if there is a reasonable chance of failure, it means more and more people are just going to roll over and meekly accept decisions which are detrimental to them. Whether or not the HSBC closes, it is a matter of principle and something we owe to the less mobile residents of Rishton.

As far as the luxury end of the market is concerned in Accrington, I don't remember seeing any of those chains outside massive retail parks such as the Trafford and Metro Centres. By your reckoning though, the people of Accrington form part of a demographic that cannot really afford the likes of Next, Debenhams or Marks and Spencer. Personally, I doubt that EVERYONE is that badly off but the choice of shops at the moment will hardly tempt anyone who wants to purchase items from those mid-to-high end stores. Preston was seemingly in much the same boat until fairly recently and yet...read my earlier post.

I would be interested to know how many Accy residents off these boards shop in Blackburn purely through a bigger choice of shops.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

In the north you only have to go to Whalley, Clitheroe, Harrogate, Leeds, Manchester, to see towns with a wealthier demographic, that supports higher end retail establishments, both multilpes and independents.

It's really very simple economics. Supply and demand.

I didn't 'research' you, by the way.

I just saw you mentioned in Graham Jones's blog.

As I say, I applaud people protesting for something they believe in, but ultimately we're talking about businesses in a free market economy, and their main goal is to maximise their profits, not as community focal points.

Trust me, if this area had a demographic with a higher disposable income, companies would be queueing up to open in Accrington, to tap into that wealth, and increase their profits, but we don't...and they're not.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Things must have changed since I last went to Whalley :rolleyes:

I wonder why both my sisters, who live in Clitheroe (and Waddington), go shopping in Accrington and Blackburn?

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Because of a genetic cheapness?

:D

Whalley less so, because of it's relatively small size, but it does have very expensive interior and fabric shops, unlike anything we have in Accy.

Hyndburn is the 40th most deprived borough out of 354 council areas. The Ribble Valley isn't classed as deprived, and is much further up the list of the least deprived areas.

Lancashire County Council: Lancashire Profile

Like it or not, these are exactly the sort of facts and figures retail analysts look at when deciding what areas could support, and flourish profitably, new business locations.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Look at the ones worse than us - Blackpool, Blackburn, Burnley and the one just better Preston.

All of these have a decent town centre with big name shops so there must be more to it.

Unless I am missing the point here.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

They all have a much larger population than Accrington. Burnley's 88,500 compared to Accrington's 35,000, for example.

Accrington does have some wealth, just as the Ribble Valley has pockets of poverty, but over all the figures are there in black and white. This area has a relatively low socio-economic majority, and isn't able to sustain many mid to high end retail outlets.

For further evidence just look at the shops in Accrington, and the ones that have left over the last decade or so, of which there have been many.

Most retail outlets employ umpteen analysts to look at the foot fall any business is likely to attract, and exactly what socio-economic class, and how much disposable income the area has, before deciding on a location for any business.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Things started going down hill when you came home to Ossy Rindi:D:D:tongueout:tongueout

Re: Sunday Trading
 

I've been in Accrington town centre today and I am still mightily impressed by it. It is well designed with lots of attractive old architecture into the bargain and not too empty shops plus free parking. It was also fairly busy considering the demographic....

If it really is only existing to cater for 35,000 residents then they are quite well served, in my opinion. I blew £80 this morning and I wasn't even there to go shopping! I was tempted in by what was there and I'm sure that if there were more of the big name outlets available I would have spent more money.

We should be proud of a town centre like that and support the shops that are there rather than talking it down with figures and statistics.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

It's nothing to do with pride, it's to do with being a realist, and living in the real world, not in the world of meaningless spin.

I'll proudly tell you I travel to shop there twice a week, year in, year out.

If there was money to be made, and a gap in the market, the shops and stores would be there to fill it, and make a profit for it's owners/shareholders.

The last figures I've found show that the Arndale has 12 empty units, and the town centre has 20. That doesn't include all the empty shops that are currently being used to sell charity/second hand goods.

For someone who's regularly shopped there for over forty years, that's not what I'd call particularly thriving.

The reasons I've given why most mid to high retail multiples aren't there, are based on the fact that retail analysts do look at the demographics of an area, and as the 40th out of 340 most deprived boroughs in the country, the lack of those shops in Accrington are futher testament that the area can't support them.

People who shop in Accrington regularly will remember all the stores and shops that opened when the Arndale was finished, and have sadly long since vanished.

Care to share which shop(s) benefitted from your £80, that so tempted you to spend money you didn't plan on spending?

I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

I understand everything you are saying Garinda re. our population's spending power, however, would be interesting to know how the Marks and Spencer store keeps going in our town. They are not exactly cheap goods are they ? Either in the fashion area or the food area. Wonder if the Accrington store does make a profit ?

Re: Sunday Trading
 

I'm thankful we do have M & S, and it is always busy, especially the food hall.

It'll be a sad day if they ever leave.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

M & S was one of the shops that you're all interested to know I went into today. I even spent some money there too. I also went to H Samuel, W H Smith, Poundland and a pie shop although personally I'm not sure anyone will be overly-excited to find that out.

The fact is that I spent money in Accrington town centre because I was tempted by what I saw. If you're saying that a few big name stores have closed in the Arndale Centre since it opened I'd be more inclined to suspect that the rent was too high for the returns rather than a lack of sufficient interest from consumers.

Decent shops attract more shoppers but the odd Next or Marks & Spencer buried amongst a sea of charity shops and pound stores is not the answer. The Trafford Centre is an example of concentrated brands attracting millions of shoppers from all across the neighbouring counties but the shops all need each other to do well in order to justify collossal rents.

I'm not saying Accrington is ever going to be on that scale but there needs to be a reasonable incentive for nationwide chains to open stores there. I suspect the rent being charged was simply too high for the amount of custom.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

'In the meantime, empty units at the centre are highly visible with the closures of stores such as Price Less Shoes, Stationery Box, Hampsons, Cryers Sound and Vision, Mark One, Rayman Gifts,the Officers Club, Children’s wear store Adams.'
'New occupants, Paddy Power and Ladbrokes.'
Concerns over empty shops in Accrington (From Blackburn Citizen)


So we waved bye-bye to art materials, kiddies clothes, books, shoes, and fashion, and welcomed two more betting shops.

Two more betting shops to add to the Chavtastically well supported array of mobile phone shops, trackie selling sports shops, and shops where you can buy a carrier bag full of frozen Pit Bull food for a pound.

Whoopie doo.

There is some good news, however. Central government have recently granted Hyndburn, because of it's position on the deprived borough list, £52,632, to help improve it's retail business.

£3million empty shop revival fund for most deprived and hardest hit high streets - Corporate - Communities and Local Government

Even better news would be if everyone in Accy had a spare eighty quid in their pocket, to fritter away on things they didn't plan to buy, and therefore had no urgent need for.

Oh what luxury we'd all feel to be in that position.

All the bills paid, and free to spend on whatever took our fancy whilst mooching round Accy.

Luxury brand retailers would soon be opening in Accrington, and Broadway would be giving Fifth Avenue, and the Rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré a run for their money.

:rolleyes:

Re: Sunday Trading
 

It doesn't happen very often, let me assure you! However, I still maintain I can't have been the only person in Accrington today that happened to have a bit of spare cash.

It may well be on the list of deprived areas but being all sarcastic about luxury retailers isn't very constructive, is it? I know you call it 'realism' but the whole of Accrington isn't exclusively populated by chavs so where are those people shopping? They will have to travel out of town because the options are not there in Accrington. Rather than the council encouraging more betting shops and pound stores that give town centres a run-down appearance, they could save themselves a future headache by halting the decline now and giving incentives for better quality shops to remain within the shopping centre.

I simply do not believe that Accrington residents are all too poor to need a decent standard of shops. Half of the unemployed people I see are in more expensive designer gear than I could ever reasonably afford! It must come from somewhere.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

It wasn't sarcasm.

I prefer to deal in facts.

If there was a population to support mid to high end retailers, they'd be there, to mop up the profits.

Fact.

If you'd taken the time to read what I actually posted, rather than trying to spin some Utopian shopping fantasy, you'd have read that there are of course lots of social groups in the area, just as there are poorer people in wealthier areas, but you can't get away from the figures in black and white, which state this area has a higher percentage of low income households, with less disposable income to spend on luxury items, other than putting food on their tables, and clothes on their kids backs.

Fact.

Believe me, check the press if you don't, but over the years the council has always been heralding the arrival of new 'big name' retailers to the town.

This has never materialised, in part due to the fact that companies employ retail analysts to report on the socio-economic demographic of the catchment area, and in Accrington's case they've chosen to stay away, and those few who took a gamble, came, and have since departed.

Fact.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Credit?

Mind, you are rather good.

Personally I simply can't tell who's unemployed, just from looking at someone.

Unless they've started to tattoo it on your forehead when you sign on, and I haven't heard about it.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

For people that don't know Lindsay, and the weight her argument carries because of insider knowledge, she has spent many years managing stores and shops in Accrington.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

I sort of agree with you both. There are people in Accrington who have the disposable income to afford to shop wherever they want and buy whatever they want. Despite being one of the poorest boroughs in the country there are still some pockets of wealth.

However over all, the picture that the retailers is getting is one of poverty and lack of spending.

But there are a number of issues to consider here for regeneration

1. How to get the odd few people who do have the money back into the town centre. Let's face it if you do have some cash you're going to go to somewhere where there is lots of choice rather than rely on one shop. So bringing one Next or one River Island into the town centre isn't going to make a huge difference to shopping habits and it's not going to be very profitable for them.

2. The layout of the town. There are, in my mind, three distinct areas in the town, each with different needs. There's the Broadway/Arndale area, there's the Market/Peel St area and there's the Warner St/Arcade area. When people talk about the town centre they seem to ignore the Warner St/Arcade area but in reality that's where we stand most chance of kick starting regeneration.

3. If we all agree that the quality of shops are poor and the choice is limited then Accrington has to provide something different to draw people in. Whether that is an open air cinema on Broadway or different school bands performing each week or ice rinks and fair ground attractions - that's up for debate. But we need to stop focusing on the shops and focus on the other opportunities. If you can draw people into the town through whatever means you can get people to spend whilst they're there.

4. Finally, one minor issue is that the Arndale is not owned by the Council, it's owned by a business that is in the business of making money. The Council have very little influence in what happens in there, so they can't affect the rents that the Arndale are charging.

These are just my musings.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

'Ray James from the Arndale Shopping Centre said Accrington was struggling to compete with other nearby towns.'
£32m Accrington Tesco plan given go-ahead (From Lancashire Telegraph)

.Michael Whewell of Hyndburn Chamber of Trade said: "Town centres up and down the country are trying to face the challenges Tesco brings with no success."
The chamber is vehemently opposed to the site on the edge of the town centre, fearing shoppers will just park there and then drive home.
Ray James, director of Asset Management – the investment company which owns the Arndale Centre – said he was disappointed with the announcement.
He said: "The local authority has shot the town centre in the foot. Tesco will open in 2009 and we will see shops in Accrington town centre close in another four or five years’ time.
"But no matter what we say, the local authority will do what it wants."
He said it was now unlikely Sainsbury’s would go ahead with a plan for a superstore at the rear of the Arndale Centre, which traders would have preferred.'
All systems go for new Tesco - Accrington Observer

'asset manager of the Arndale Centre, Accrington, Ray James, said he understood why Sainsbury’s may pull out because the £32million, 88,000 sq ft Tesco store, off Eagle Street, would ‘crucify’ the town centre. Jo Try, northern development executive for Sainsbury’s said: “The Accrington Town Centre Area Action Plan calls for the strengthening of the town centre and Sainsbury’s supports this in Accrington.
“By granting permission for such a large Tesco the town suffers a double whammy: Other retailers, including Sainsbury’s, may think twice about investing in the town centre and any plans for a revitalised Arndale Centre may also suffer for the same reason.
“Shoppers lose choice and Accrington misses an opportunity to strengthen its town centre.”
Sainsbury's may pull out of Accrington town centre plan (From Blackburn Citizen)

So far I've steered clear of politics, but since you brought it up, besides the demographics of the area, another reason for companies not seeing Accrington as a good investment, is down to some poor long term planning from H.B.C., which will see Accrington's town centre independent retailers, and smaller multiple chains, slowly disappearing from the area.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

All businesses have to 'make money', otherwise they soon close down.

As stated, besides the Arndale, there are twenty other empty retail units in the town centre, and that's discounting the shops which are being used by charities, and as a percentage of total retail space in the town, that is much more than the national average.

Sadly this situation predates the current recession, as the rot had started long before the credit crunch.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

I feel Accrington as not been the same since the Arndale was built. I loved the old Accrington and the market as it used to be.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

'However Coun Britcliffe said “If you go into Asda on a Sunday morning it’s jam packed'
Call to end Accrington's Wednesday half-day trading (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Well we know where at least one person does his shopping.

As Lancsdave pointed out, the only town centre retail businesses that are closed on Wednesady are in the council run Market Hall, all the other shops are open.

Just as those shops who think it's worthwhile for them, already open up on Sunday. Which is apparent to people that actually shop in the town centre, instead of spending their time going off their trolley in the souless alleys of supermarket chains.

So all this half-day guff is yet more hot air and empty rhatoric, from someone who it appears doesn't know the facts regarding shopping in Accrington's town centre.

Accrington's shops do already open all day Wednesdays, and Sundays, if they think it viable, and profitable.

The economic market decides when, and how long, traders open, not some politican, sat in his ivory tower, surrounded by his shopping, in ASDA carrier bags.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

I agree.

The market is a sad shadow of it's former self, and it's heartbreaking to see.

Nothing to do with people's changing shopping habits, as other market towns are still bustling, but down to some very poor planning decisions from the powers that be.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

The thing is though the planning was done with what at the time they considered it the way forward. We look back and see it was wrong and are paying the price. What it does prove though is that planning for the future is fraught with danger and it will either be a roaring success or a first rate failure. There can never be a real balance that will suit all and that is the price we pay for trying to get it right.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

It might help to redress the problem if the council and the owners of the Arndale Centre reduced their rents. Surely it is hardly good business to make rents so high that you end up with loads of empty units. Does it not make more sense to accept smaller rent and have the units occupied than having them empty making nothing? Or have a missed the point here? Would seem to me that my suggestion is the right way to go but then again I'm not in business.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

'A retail study commissioned by Hyndburn Council in 2005 found that convenience (food) retailing was under-represented in terms of units and floorspace'
Home - Accrington Town Centre AAP - Accrington Town Centre AAP (Informal Consultation)

:eek:

I'd have thought we already had more than enough kebab, curry shops, and other takeaways in the area....apparently not.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

Spokespeople for the Arndale have hinted that they aren't keen on investing much in Accrington, since Tesco's planning application was approved, and which they vehemently opposed, along with the Hyndburn Chamber of Trade.

Still, with the half million quid bung from Tesco, at least the flower towers will be well stocked, and look pretty for a few years, whilst the tumble weed blows past the ever expanding stock of empty shops.

Re: Sunday Trading
 

But they have already got the building, is it not a bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face to leave units empty rather than lower the rent? It makes more sense to get some income surely?:confused:

Re: Sunday Trading
 

It's owned by a Swiss bank, who sadly probably couldn't give two hoots about the numbers of empty units we currently have in Accrington.

A tiny speck in a massive property portfolio.

:(