Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Your certainly spot on about council chiefs being paid more than the PM Neil, which to be honest is quite ridiculous really, but a nice job if you can get it. I have always said that councillors are not paid enough, using your rule of thumb. As for MPs I'm not sure what kind of money you would need to attract the creme de la creme into parliament, think we might have to put up with the likes of Jonesy for the near future:rolleyes:

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

With the PC procedures now in the parties' candidate selection processes there is no guarantee that those best qualified to be MPs would get onto the ballot paper anyway - even if they were attracted by a higher salary.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

In his "peanuts and monkeys" post, Neil mentioned the "right people"; and you mention the "best qualified" ... in this funny old world, has any one of us given much thought to "qualifications"? What qualifies someone to be an MP? Looking at your present government, it would seem that attending Eton and Oxbridge are, if not necessary, at least a tremendous advantage;) Over here, it seems as if a law degree is almost a necessity.:D We all probably know what qualifications are required for a plumber or an electrician, a nurse or a doctor, an airline pilot etc. etc. But what should be the qualifications needed to represent thousands of people in the House of Commons (we call it that too;))? We all know what they tell us on the hustings. I will do this, and that; I will be honest, reliable, hard working, always ready to represent your interests ... and all kinds of other stuff that can be found emerging from the rear end of a bull, or a horse. But what should one look for, in terms of qualifications, in a potential MP? How high should our expectations be? How difficult is it be a back bencher (we call them that too;))? After all, they don't even have to listen to the debates, let alone contribute to them. They are told how to vote. Over here, one can be illiterate and run for office:alright: If you can't sign your own nomination papers, a witnessed "X" will do:eek:

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

What qualifies someone to be an MP?..

It doesn't matter if you have your pulse on the feelings of the public, you are an altruist, or if you are the cleverest man alive who has the solution to all the worlds ills, you will not be elected unless you are a card carrying member of one of the main political parties. Once they have you..you vote the party way (check out how many times our own MP has rebelled) or you can forget having a career in politics.

As for intelligence levels....you only have to view Parliament TV and watch the donkeys and geese bray and cackle until some guy in a gown (who's airhead wife is more famous than him for a nude photo, reality TV, and a column in a redtop rag), shouts 'order' (and they want £96k for this remember).

Mother of parliaments my backside, our system is that old and decrepit it's in late stage dementia...they are a damn disgrace in this day and age, they cannot debate without resorting to shouting down anyone with a differing opinion, in fact they don't really debate anymore, they make statements and votes are cast, by those that can be bothered turning up, according to what they have been told by the party. (£96k for following orders).

Couple of years ago Margaret Beckett was battered on question time for looking down her nose at the voting public over the expenses debacle, saying 'no I won't pay it back, the public just don't understand' as she claimed £600 on hanging baskets and £900 for painting her summer house, shed and pergola. She later said it had been a mistake to submit large gardening bills. This year she got a DBE. I wonder who recommended that then, because it sure as heck wasn't John Q Public!

Unlike most of us working grunts, who have to tighten our belts, accept little or no pay rise while the country gets back on its feet...these leeches want more from the pot, and not just a little more....they want a 32% pay rise...

Pigs feeding at the trough...and to plagiarise George Orwell those pigs are now saying 'ordinary public good, MP's better'

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

A bit of good old common sense wouldn't really go a miss Eric:rolleyes:

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Don't talk daft.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

why:eek:

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Ok. For qualifications, it looks as if there are at least two;): 1) A membership card in one of the major parties. 2) A pulse. Maybe one could add: a thick skin, a thick skull, and a strong stomach. These last three are up for debate. Oh, and maybe the ability to put up with any number of terminolgical inexactitudes (thanx Winston:D) as long as they come from senior members of your own party, although having a thick skin, thick skull, and strong stomach would answer for this.

I've often considered that the Yanks ... who, by the way have told Cameron not to have a ref. on the EU:rolleyes: ... are prisoners of their Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights. Maybe you, and us to a lesser degree, are shackled to a Parliamentary system which is out of date.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

And here is our very own MP dodging a simple question 4 times on twitter...

Hi Graham. What are your thoughts on MPs' pay? Should there be a 32% pay rise?

GJ - The gap between rich and poor must close. Picking on MPs misses the point of higher wage earners with less responsibility.

not picking on anyone: committee recommendation, public office, regit question. So MPs underpaid for responsibilities?

GJ - Bigger issue than MPs pay. Gap between rich and poor needs tackling.

I agree on the gap. But what are your views, specifically, on the suggested 32% rise for MPs?

GJ - It was an anonymous survey. MPs pay irrelevant in the big scheme. Closing the gap between rich and poor is what matters.

Only interested in what you think of the suggested 32% (not your response to the survey) with public sector pay freeze etc.

GJ - MPs pay a false distraction from the wider pay gap issue.

Muppet!

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

all this crap about the pay gap to me is a none starter, it won't happen because people like Jones won't let it, they make too much money out of it for themselves, you only have to look at labour politicians who have been blurting this out for years, yet the likes of Brown and Blair are now making millions now out of office, good old Gordon, even though he's still drawing his 65K a year, hasn't set foot in the commons for a year, I wonder how our illustrious MP will answer that little poser :mad:

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Your right, as far as I am concerned they are absent from work and should not be paid or kicked out even

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Sounds a lot like on here - he or she who shouts the loudest thinks they are listened to while the more intelligent/nicer members find another thread.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

I don't agree with the gap thing. I don't care if someone has 10 or 100 times more money than I do as long as I can provide for my family.

The gap thing has more to do with jealousy than need.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Think you've hit the nail on the head there Neil, the likes of C'mon and Mancie, have that green eyed yellow monster sat on their shoulders, why should they have it when I haven't, that's why Labour will never prosper, because the moment they gain any sort of power and the financial trappings that go with it, they have a change in attitude, from all for one and one for all, to I'm all right jack your own your own now, as our present MP has proved only too well, and remember good old Tony, he's made over £12 million since departing government, and good old Gordon is far to busy on the circuit earning megabucks and hasn't been seen in the Commons for over 12 months now, yet he's still getting his sixty odd thousand quid MPs salary, good god if that had been a Tory C'mon would have been doing somersaults and frothing at the mouth, but not one word of condemnation, which I find a tad hypocritical

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

LMAO -hes learning quick isnt he

if you cant impress someone then baffle them with bullcrap

or as american indians would say

white man speak with forked tongue

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Hey there Ke-mo sah-bee, Indians are becoming far more articulate.:alright: But the message is the same.;)

AFN leader prepares for follow-up meeting with PM - Canada - CBC News

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

At the risk of being accused of shouting while the nice intelligencia wander off to the floral section of this site..

Thats a simplistic statement to make, let me counter with a simplistic question..

Providing for your family...would you care if you did that from a council house in Moss Side feeding them with Tescoburgers or from a detached in Cheshire eating filet mignon? (yeah I know, unfair of me because your statement does not take account of quality of life, after all it's just a typical Daily Mail type argument)

Earlier this week some overpaid IT guy was discovered to be farming his job out to a company in China..he was paid that much that he could actually employ a company to do his work for him and still make enough to live the high life...He was becoming richer for being non-productive and exploiting the poor. He didn't need the money, he wasn't scraping a few quid together to pay his electric bill, he was just widening the gap.

It's not about jealousy, it's about obscenity...a golfer..a bloke who hits a ball with a stick gets £500+ every single hour for wearing a hat and trainers with ticks on them, while a struggling young mum goes home with roughly the same amount every month for a 40 hour week dealing with all the problems raised by looking after 10-12 people in late stage dementia.

Is that a fair distribution of wealth?

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

If its that easy to hit a ball with a stick why is she not doing it, or you and I for that matter?

Does your £500 an hour take into account all his ball whacking time and all the time previously he had to practice to get to his level?

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Does the young mums £500 a month take into account all the training, skills and patience she needs to treat 10-12 people with dignity and give them a decent quality of life in the twilight of their lives?

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

So what your saying basically that people who have an initiative to go out and make the best they can by their own ingenuity (within the law) they're wrong, its like saying Joe Stalin was Equal with every tom dick tovarish in the street. I had a mate left school at sixteen with few qualifications he started 3 jobs, stood the market during the day, sold portable burglar alarms at night then went behind a bar at a night club to finish of his 18 hour day, this same guy now has a chain of shops, drives a mercedes and has a big house in the Ribble Valley, no doubt people like this are despised by the likes of yourself or is it the green eyed yellow monster

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Nope not saying that at all. I'm not talking about equality, I'm talking about value, worth and fairness.

Your mate deserves what he has, he's grafted, he is productive and is value for money. I have no problem with him earning more than his cleaner or him living in a castle, I am not a communist.

Who do you think deserves the better pay...the bloke who hits a ball with a stick and wears a hat with a tick on it, the banker that gets a six figure bonus for losing your pension fund or the bloke that helps you get around Accrington. Which one is the most value for money and the most productive? And most importantly do you think that the gap between their incomes is fair?

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

I have no problem with any sportsman earning what he can, normally its a very short career, your telling me that if you'd have been a talented footballer, golfer athlete, you would have turned your nose up at earning a good living for yourself, as for bankers, I don't have a problem with them either so long they act legitimately, which in the past it was proved this isn't always the case, if your dealing in money you make money so be it, I have the same outlook as Neil and remember I have been unable to work for years because of very poor health, have I moaned and envied people more luckier than myself, not a chance, envy has never been on my horizon, even now so long as I can get by and pay my way I don't give a monkies

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

You are right, of course. You know you have to be on the right track when blinkered tories bring up Stalin:rolleyes: I don't quite agree on the "athlete" thingy ... sure they earn too much, though I don't buy that short career argument ... after all, at a $100,000 a week, even four or five months would set one up pretty good:D But it's the Sheiks and other assorted billionaires who are ruining football, hockey, basketball etc. And the sponsors who mess around with other sports. What surprises me is that tens of thousands of Mancs have convinced themselves that they are watching "local" teams.:rofl38::rofl38:Stanley is a football club; Manchester United is a marketing vehicle for overpriced red shirts with foreign names on the back.:rolleyes:

And there will always be "this one guy that I know" who, with hard work, and some luck made it big.:rolleyes: And, of course, the thousands who start off flipping burgers and graduate to slopping floors are conveniently forgotten ... they work just as hard, but didn't get the breaks. Tories, and to a slightly lesser degree, "new" socialists would have folks believe in equal opportunity, the level playing field idea ... as if we all begin the race at the same start line.:rolleyes: That is one immense crock of horse manure. One can imagine what, say, David Cameron would be doing for a living if he had been born, to a poor single women in the projects. Living on welfare? Dealing a little dope on the side? Most likely he would be in jail:alright: The competitive model is not working ... and the irony is that most of those who have benefitted from competition want to eliminate it when they have made it big. Even the laissez faire US has laws against too few companies getting too much control.

If this funny old world is to survive co-operative models are the only ones which will work. After all, it's a good Lancashire idea. Came out of Rochdale in the 1840s:D

The little people are starting to get together and flex their muscle. Perfect results, of course, are not being acheived ... but "two steps forward, one step back" is still progress. In this "connected" world, folks are becoming aware of the glaring inequities you are pointing to, an ironic result of a socially connected world created by capitaists.:D About 3 months ago, four First Nations' women in Saskatoon came up with the idea for an "Idle No More" movement. Now look at it:

Idle No More - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe this is the new politics. Maybe it will lead to a new economics. But all over the world people ... well, once they have removed their blinkers ... are getting pee'd off. Yanks are looking at their economic recovery being held hostage by the childish bs going on in Congress. They see US corporations exporting jobs, not products, in order to squeeze out a few extra bucks for the already rich. The US tories ... they prefer to be called Republicans:rolleyes: ... are in disarray. The new revolution is underway. No bombs and barricades ... no real 'leadership" ... just smart phones, tablets and laptops.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Wow, Eric, I wish I was capable of saying that.
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/i...le/alright.gif

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

You are ... altho' you wouldn't be as long-winded:D

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Buuuulllllll....



Shine
:)

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Nobody said life would be fair-get used to it.
Come the revolution the rich will loose their heads and some of the poor will get very rich. The whole cycle will start again.
In the history of the human race there have always been the very rich and the very poor, whatever the system. Unless you can name one I've missed?
As for co-operative models being the only ones which will work-I would have thought the USSR had proved that to be wrong quite conclusively. The Chinese have certainly accepted that now.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

They I think must be the meek that will inherit the Earth, not from organisation, nor' from fighting.
There are just so many of them manufacturing nothing of real value, we all buy it, with borrowed money from China, eventually they will call in that ever-increasing loan.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

'The yellow race will inherit the Earth'. Maybe not quite in my time, your time Less or Erics, but our childrens. When they call that loan in it won't just be their money they want back.
They are moving on to manufacturing things which are of real value very rapidly- then we'll see the world change.Erics next 'revolution' may not be very comfortable.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Your digital view of history is becoming pixelated. And quite silly. Especially looking at the example of the Soviet Union and concluding it proves anything ... other than that a co-operative effort will defeat the Wehrmacht, put a man in space, and build lousy automobiles:D Since Adam delved and Eve span, humanity has been in a constant state of revolution. (Nice to add a touch of Shakespeare to an argument conducted in English:)) Not cyclical at all, just constant evolutionary change. You know, random mutation, selective retention applied to society. If you believe that revolutions are somehow created in smokey rooms or attics by bearded wannabe intellectuals who make the kind of bombs that coyote's throw at road runners, then you are missing the point. In fact, most revolutions are inevitable. There is, for example, no technological revolution. Once you have the first computer ... maybe we should thank the nazis for providing us with the challenge of Enigma:alright: ... the technological "miracles" of today are boringly inevitable. It took thousands of years to get off the ground in a heavier than air machine. Yet the "distance" from Kitty Hawk to Tranquility Base is, what, 66 years. And "revolutions", all major changes, feed off one another. No random mutation of wheat in the Fertile Crescent = equals no ancient Egypt. Altho' something else might have happened to give rise to civilization, which may or may not have been a good idea. Like it or not, the revolution is taking place right now. Altho', how it will pan out is anybody's guess.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

I've notice that those on the left always have the prefect way of life mapped out ready to be implemented when the time is right, They have all the answer, yet when they get the opportunity to make those much heralded changes nothing happens, maybe when they get in a place of power and are able to change things they like being on the other side and once again stick two fingers up to, as Eric calls um, ordinary Joe's. Our own illustrious MP being a prime example now he sings that cobbled up verse of the red flag, the working class can kiss my ass I've got the bosses job at last;)and there's a lot more of his ilk sing from the same hymn sheet

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

hed probbably be someones little bitch in or out of jail infact he was probbably someone slittle bitch at his posh school

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

It's the way you tell em!

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

I had to put 'It's the way you tell em' in.It didn't like me just sticking bits in Erics post!
Heck, could have said that on an edit!

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Case in point...both happened tonight

value, worth and fair

Football star helps the homeless - CNN.com

overpaid and worthless

Joey Barton in bizarre Twitter Darwinism rant - Mirror Online

Hmm..Johnny Foreigner with humility and humanity and the Brit with the I'm alright Jack stuff the rest of you attitude

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Amazing! Almost lucid. Perhaps you should check to see if you have a brown mark on your neck. This would mean that you are down a quart.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

and your point, you still haven't answered me on what YOU would have done if YOU had been gifted enough to be a professional sportsman, but people of your ilk never do answer when questioned, because you can't find a believable answer

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

I'd like to think that I'd be more of an Angel Rangel than a Joey Barton. Which is kind of my point.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

No you decried all sportsmen for, as you say earning £500 an hour, but I asked you if you were a gifted sportsman whether you'd turn down that obscene amount of money, yes or no, simple question, can't make it any simpler if I try

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Admirable brevity. It usually takes you a lot more than two lines to give us the benifit of your more profound thoughts.
I must admit, though, I'm slightly dissapointed.

I'm always a little surprised when anyone can still express any sort of approval for Stalin or the communist way of doing things. We should remember he killed far more of his own people than the Germans ever managed and at far less cost. Letting millions of people starve to death costs nothing . Perhaps if he hadn't decimated the USSR they would have won the war quicker and at less cost.
Throughout his reign left wing armchair politicians in the West expressed admiration for him from the comfort of their safe little homes.
Some people still ignore history.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Nope, I used the golfer vs care worker to illustrate a point about a gap in earnings, which is where the debate was at that time. I didn't decry all sportsmen in any of my posts.

You already know the answer to the question you pose...NO! I wouldn't turn down an obscene amount of money, I'd be an idiot or a liar if I said I would.

Does that mean I'd agree with it, of course not, because if I truly believed that I got £500 an hour for wearing a hat whilst a woman caring for 12 people earned the same in a month was just, then I'd also be an idiot.

Thing is the money to pay the golfer is available because the company that pays him, mass produces the hats in sweat shops which pay the workers a pittance for their efforts..widening the gap.

Although I wasn't the guy who originally put those questions to Graham Jones, and I have very little truck with him as a politician, I agree with him that the pay gap between rich and poor needs addressing.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Now if only it were that simple, people paid by their worth & value as opposed to their ego ! What a pleasanter place the World would be.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Well allow me to jump on the bandwagon, I am more than willing to be a hypocrite and a betrayer of my class, (whatever that maybe),just to earn one fifth of a fifth of what his payment is, all I need to be offered is a genuine job, strangely I keep being approached to do voluntary work, somehow that doesn't keep the wolf from the door.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

And the ethos of political persuasion you so eagerly support had quite a long time to make a start, did they, did they hell, they just stuck their noses as far into the through as they could. Even Jones will have increased his income three or four times all told since entering Parliament, not only that he retained his county council seat saying he would not claim any payments he was entitled too, until he thought nobody was looking them started to claim. left wing politicians have always been good with the mouth, but do very little when they have the power to do so. Just one question these

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Somehow I reckon the real Tories have the advantage private school taught to keep the hoy poloy down and know how to keep the working class Tories in place.
A case of nip back paddywack give the dog a bone, whilst they live higher on the hog than most of us imagine.
There is if you notice a class that can attend every sporting event no matter where no matter when, horse racing for example, I wonder, which party supports them or has them supporting it?

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

That's just it Less I don't give a toss, never have never will, no point, more interested in my lot, couldn't care less about the others, sorry if that's hard to understand, but it certainly stops me getting my knickers in a twist whenever Mr Ed shouts posh lad across the commons floor at Cameron, whilst thinking I wish I was in his place:rolleyes: rolling those big green eyes, envy must be very hard to swallow and it shows on the faces of Miliband Balls Cooper and the rest of the opposition front bench

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

And we go full circle to the standard 13 years of labour rule argument.

If the rest of your post about GJ were true, which I don't think it is, why would it bother you so much...after all in your ethos its not about being paid your value and worth but getting what you can by any means as long as its legal, and you also forfeit the right to criticise Gordon Brown for non attendance or in fact any MP who makes a spurious expense claim as long as they dont break the law. You can't have it both ways

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

can't see anything in my post about me being envious of them, if anything was sorry for the fact you've spent most of your life being a hard worker blinded by their bull.
I have never been a member of a political party, as with sex, I've got my leanings but prefer to take on what I can trust, (less of a pain in the arse).

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Some people still ignore history, and some, you seem to be one, just don't understand it. You seem to be fixated on Stalin as a socialist. I don't think anyone on here sees Stalin as anything other than a lunatic. Many probably look at the Soviet Union and see State Capitalism, not socialism or communism. The Soviet Union became a form of Timocracy when Stalin took over, passed quickly into tyranny, and then swiftly degenerated.

I'm relieved to see that you don't discount the Soviet contribution to winning WWll, a testimony to the determination and fortitude of the Russian people rather than to their politics.


In spite of its faults the Soviet Union has had some remarkable achievements: Operation Bagration, which destroyed Army Group Centre and effectively neutered the Wehrmacht; the top tank (according to the Hitory Channels' list), the T 34; the top combat rifle (same source), the AK 47 ... we could do with a few milliion less of those in the world; the first man in space, Dan Dare; the first woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova; the most reliable and best designed automobile, the Lada:rofl38:; great vodka; fantastic hot-looking women:hothothot ... I'm getting carried away here.:D

Oh, the next bus leaving for the International Space Station will be a Soyuz.;)

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

I'm afraid it's typical of those who has spent their lives isolated in academia that they feel there is their view(the correct one) and the views of those who don't agree with them(through lack of understanding, poor things). That's one of the problems of our education system today.
Of course the USSR had some remarkable achievements, if you keep a state of almost 300 million people short of food,clothing,housing etc and work them like slaves there will be lots of money left for some 'remarkable achievements'.
For almost 30 years Stalin was the USSR and the USSR was Stalin. If Stalin was a lunatic(agreed) he was ruling a lunatic state because the two were one.
You concentrate on a few physical achievements-the nations efforts and sacrifices during the war-yes. The T34-yes(well designed for massive rapid production to overwhelm the Panzers). The Ak47-yes(brilliantly designed for the job it was intended for). The first man and woman in space-yes. The Lada- well, you can't get them all right, can you?Vodka- I like it. The Soyuz- a marvellous workhorse for space.

But lets look at how the USSR(don't just blame Stalin) treated its reason for existing- its people.
Between 3 and 10 million people starved to death under the 'Collectivization of Agriculture' policy .
Two and a half million peasants who didn't starve exiled to clear the land.
3.7 million sentenced for 'revolutionary crimes' in 2 years,0.6 million of them shot, 2.4 million sent to labour camps.
The 'Great Purge'-1.5 million arrested, 700,000 of them shot.
80,000 of the top military and its officers shot because Stalin was worried about them. Leaving the armed forces without experienced leadership just before a war started.

You quote a few physical achievements- I quote the price the people paid. The price was far in excess of the achievements. And the Soyuz, the man and woman in space, most of its post war achievements, destroyed it by bankrupting it.
Little to praise or admire.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

If you are looking for a boogey man to scare the children away from socialism, forget about Stalin ... He's been an embarrassment to the Soviet Union and the Russians since at least the time of the secret letter.

Oh, and don't forget the more than 30 million who died fighting Nazism ... another notable achievement. Or is that something else that requires little praise or admiration.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

If he's looking for a bogeyman he's looking at the wrong empire..

A moral audit of the British empire | openDemocracy

Deny the British empire's crimes? No, we ignore them | George Monbiot | Comment is free | The Guardian

That Good Old British Empire? « Lila Rajiva: The Mind-Body Politic

Using Gordons own words..little to praise or admire

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Well you must agree that in those 13 years they did little to change all those so called wrongs imposed by the Tories, so its obvious all those wrongs became rights and would have been undertake by Labour but never had the bottle. Everybody in the country knows we have a benefits system that's not fit for purpose, yet successive Governments have refused to change it because of the fear of backlash, but there is something wrong were people can get more money lying in bed on benefits than going out to work, I'm not saying that everything Cameron is doing is right far from it, he leaves a lot to be desired but if he can change this benefit culture which seems to be ingrained into our society we'll have at least one thing to thank him for

Your second point isn't worth an argument, when Blair stood down as Prime Minister, re also stood down from Parliament, to fallow another career, yet Brown is doing the same thing but getting paid by the tax payer, he is not representing the people who voted for him, (in local government if a councillor doesn't attend a meeting in, I think six months, he/she are disqualified from office, this should also apply to MPS

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

If they did little in your standard 13 years to alter what had been done by the Tories and the Tories are as perfect as you claim then what they had put in place would have carried us not only through those 13 years with hardly a glitch but on to a British paradise that should have lasted at least 1,000 years.

P.S. have you set up a macro so that whenever a criticism of the Tories appears on site, the 13 years speech is automatically brought into play?

Got to admit it's nowhere near as interesting as putting together real thoughts such as Eric and Guinness have done.
:)

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

The past is a graveyard where we bury our mistakes.

I hate that people in power feel the need to apologise for things over which they had no control....you can only apologise for the things which you were involved in, otherwise it makes the apology nothing more than the weasel words we hear politicians utter today...they are meaningless, and not only that, they dilute the power of all apologies in the future....those made from the heart and with sincere contrition.

All countries have been responsible for things which we now consider to be bad...or amoral....and do you think that we learn anything from those mistakes...of course we don't! Future generations will look back(with the benefit of hindsight - which we all know is 20/20) and criticise happenings of today...they will wonder how our supposed civilzation could be so crass.....but I do hope they won't be making apologies for it.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

As Margaret says the place to bury yesterday's mistakes is in the graveyard, maybe that's why Labour didn't change anything they so vehemently opposed when it was introduced, its very rare that any government repeals acts introduced by its predecessors. As for Eric and Guinness, they continually long for the past, where I think to the future, if they want to talk about the good old days try the nostalgia section

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

when you get older( I use that term advisedly) we spend time living in the past because the future we have, could be very limited...and the past is something that we have lots of.

There is no country in the world that can rejoice and say it has a clear conscience....and until they can look at their own mistakes and denounce those too, then they should shut up and move on.
The past cannot be altered, however many tears are shed over the happenings.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

well looks like its the end of an independent police force and the tories will get revenge over the mitchell affair. G4S chief predicts mass police privatisation | UK news | The Guardian

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Do you mind keeping to your own Muppet thread and stop ruining others that are enjoyable with informed debate, not unmitigated claptrap from spurious links from rags like the Guardian:mad:

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

I'm ever the optimist Margaret. I love to look to the future, its the only real pleasure I get, just wondering which events in the future I'll be around to see, never thought I'd see my 65 birthday, in fact I quoted that in an interview with the Observer in 1991, but my next mile stone is 67 in July, never thought I'd see the Olympics but I did, now my next gaol is the World Cup in Brazil in 2014, fingers crossed:)

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Power to your elbow John...keep having something to look forward to, it is often the way to keep going....even though it is creakily, it is way better than the alternative.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Ya Margaret the glass is still half full not half empty

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

You drain it to the dregs John!

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Or the 'Daily Mail':D:D

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Don't get me going again, Guinness!
The way we behaved then was by a totally different set of standards and attitudes than we have now. There's no point in being ashamed or apologising for something done by earlier generations which was perfectly acceptable in their world. Anyway, we were the first to ban slavery!
If you want to see colonial powers at their worst(even by the standards of the day) try reading about the Belgian colonies! And the Germans and Spanish. We were teddy bears by comparison.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

I did actually have a go at reading some of the stuff that is in those links...but it wasn't an easy read.......so I gave it up.
Those writers are like vultures picking over the bones of history...they can do nothing about what happened any more than we can.
And who is to say what India(or any of the colonies for that matter) would have been like had the British not been involved in their past?

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

I'm afraid I don't agree with your view of history. But, as usual, I like and admire the way you put forward your opinions: lite on the cliches, and heavy on the calm reasoned argument ... except maybe when something really pees you off:D I always like to think that you don't open your mouth, or head for the keyboard, without giving some serious thought to what you are about to "say".

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

I take that as a compliment Eric....Thankyou.
I like that you have been 'gentle' with me for my differing view of history......and I'm quite happy to agree to disagree.

I'm not an expert on history(and that could be why I hold the views that I do).......and unless something really grabs me about a time or a place in history then the facts can be a bit hazy.

When I was at school, we didn't do a lot of history, and it was taught in such a manner that I found window gazing and daydreaming to be a better option.......which I suppose is why I left school at 15 without a paper qualification to my name.

I am somewhat distrustful of latter day writers, of what the Brits did to places they colonised....thinking they have some kind of gripe and want to exercise it.....but cannot conceive of how India(just as an example) might have been without any outside influence.

We can't move on by hanging onto the grudges of the past.....that were perpetrated in different time, by people who had a vastly different view of the world.
We didn't do it back then, so cannot be held responsible.
We can only be held responsible for what is happening in the here and now.........and I don't know about you, but my influence on world events is like a gnat bite on the hide of a hippo.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

ticktock the clocks ticking

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

History is always quoted by the left in arguments, as you say we can do sod all about what our forefathers did, different era different set of rules, thankfully we've taken giant steps since those times, yet in places like China, and Burma their human rights record today are just as appalling and on a par with life behind the Iron Curtain pre 1989, yet you never hear any criticism, wonder why

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Ah, but had you not been there Margaret someone that has had a great effect on the world might have died, some other unsung hero.
:)

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Less, you overestimate my influence.........I did my bit(mainly because I enjoyed doing it - nothing altruistic in that...and yes I got paid too) and I daresay that over the years I have made a difference to some lives, though in a very small and perhaps insignificant way. (it must be so, because people still yell out in the street Sr P!)
I have not touched the lives of those with influence on how the world is run....or at least I don't think I have.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

A perfect example of the butterfly effect!
;)

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yes, Less...I have a theory(but no real evidence) on that, but if I told you what it was...you would mark my card 'NUTTER' :D

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Don't assume I haven't already!
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/i...lies/silly.gif

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Oh well......nuff said :)
Personally...I prefer....Unique, but will accept eccentric.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

You sound a little like Catherine Moreland in Northanger Abbey: "History, real solemn history, I cannot be interested in ... The quarrels of popes and kings, with wars or pestilences in every page ... it is very tiresome.";):D Austen had interesting views on history.

I got interested in this view when I read a little about chaos theory, and quantum cognition. I know, I have too much free time on my hands ... maybe I should get a life:D, or concentrate on:thepint::thepint::thepint:

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

I am not a fan of Austen, but now, you make me tempted to read Northanger abbey to see if I am like the character Catherine Moreland.
I am sure that Catherine was a far more refined lady than i could ever hope to be.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Eric, if everyone used their free time as well and as intelligently as you do the world would be a better place.

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

However, if he spent more time drinking instead of reading he wouldn't need books, no books means less trees being used for paper, better for the planet, unless of course his books are supplied by velvet publishing.
http://images.e-storefront.co.uk/l/JA1859.jpg

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

I see you use the 18 roll pack Eric:D

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Me ... I use Charmin; but only because of the bears:D

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

which is a joke because we all know bears use rabbits to wipe their arse ....

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

It's Cushelle now in Europe, not Charmin... and the bear is a koala - which isn't really a bear.

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And that's only 'cause the shiite doesn't stick to their fur:D

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"Better" ... mmmm; gotta do me some ponderin' on that one. Definitely weirder, in the vulgar sense of the word. Imagine a world where people actually used their brains ... no more talking about the "real world" as if it actually existed as some immutable and judgemental other:eek: Ah well, time to get a little perspective; time to look at the pale blue dot.:D Oh, and have a beer:dancedog:

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Britishness test for immigrants, multiple choice questions, gone the PC crap & more concentration on British "Heroes", fine by me. Incidentally I scored 100% :) So does that make me a Little Englander" or just proud & patriotic of my heritage ?

Margaret Thatcher rewritten as economic reformer in new test for migrants - Telegraph

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

i got %100

take that Mr McHale:D

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

i think we should do away with the britishness test all together and just have 1 chap at immigration who simply looks over his shoulder and says "sorry were full try the next country on your list "

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Seeing we've just found another few thousand that have been here over 10 years that the Borders Agency didn't know about or forgot, we have to ask is this agency fit for purpose

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

John, the answer to that has to be a big fat resounding NO!

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Here we go, after the hoo ha of the gay marriage vote the next enclave to be challenged is our perception of nature, obviously them daddy long legs are just that, assuming that Dr.Mills (University of East Anglia .... that's Norfolk, isn't it ? :rolleyes:) is correct in his thesis.

Must be a slow news day at the Telegraph, I even thought I'd strayed on to the Sun/Mail online site until I checked the banner. :)

Attenborough documentaries 'ignore gay animals' - Telegraph

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Now that is going to make the TV appeals for the snow leapord interesting...

Send three pounds a month so we can continue our captive breeding programme for the gay leopards.

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Na Less they'll qualify for a lottery grant if they do that:rolleyes:

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

K'inell, all I have to do to get a lottery grant is turn gay?

Why have I spent so many years wondering what I'm going to do next?

Can I get Vaseline on free prescription?
:eek:

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

I got me 100% too ... not bad for a colonial:theband:

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Must be something in the water down that part of the UK ! :rolleyes:

Policewoman in Norfolk sues petrol station owner over alleged injuries she got during a call-out - Crime - UK - The Independent

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Yep, here's another one from down that way...
BBC News - Essex school bans triangle shaped flapjacks

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

She tripped over a kerb in the dark !!!! If she's too stupid to know that all petrol stations have kerbs of some sort or another & too stupid to switch on her torch when it's dark then she shouldn't really be a police officer should she! :rolleyes:

Re: Oh Hum its a funny old world
 

Surely such rubbish would have a much more detailed exposure in the Mail?

Triangular, square, oblong? What an uncaring world we live in, everyone knows circular flap jacks have no corners so are safer to throw.

Hang on though, are we back to bad education?

They aren't for throwing, they are for eating, anyone throwing the damned thing should be expelled leaving the school safe for our tender loved ones.