Re: Free grit for all!
 

Someone told me today that most of our grit is more than 50% sand and that why its not having much effect.:confused:

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Here is a reply to that in the L E T
Lancashire County Council chief answers your gritting questions (From Lancashire Telegraph)

1. The make-up of grit in grit bins is not effective, too much sand. Is that what is being used by wagons?

The gritters used to treat the highways spread 100% rock salt. The salt/sand mix used in the grit bins is proven to be effective at deicing and preventing ice from forming on pavements – the sand provides extra traction especially on snow and continues to be effective after the salt has dissolved in solution. Applied to a layer of snow, the material in grit bins will help to prevent ice from forming and provide traction. The more foot-traffic the pavement gets, the more effective the grit will be as the action of people walking is needed to activate the salt – however it is designed to prevent icing and provide traction – it is not designed to entirely remove a layer of snow.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Yep ! Certainly did ! ;):D See post 37 of this thread. :s_aim1:

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Neither do the said authorities either:D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:
Hope Romps as read this:D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I've just rang they said that 'offers' finished last week :(

what do we do for the rest of the winter!!

im on a really bad street and have to hold the wall all the way down and when i live in the top house its hard work!! xx

Re: Free grit for all!
 

What did you do last year or the year before?

Is there no honesty anymore?
I expect my coke to come cut with a little talcum powder, but is there no honesty?
Salt dealers doing the same thing?
What is the world coming to?

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Mind how ya go:rolleyes:

Re: Free grit for all!
 

saw some delivered on my gaff this aft, the path to he car park is now clear:D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

According to your details you are in Ossy. I wouldn't worry about it, you get first priority in bad weather :rolleyes:

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Especially if you live up New Lane:rolleyes:

Re: Free grit for all!
 

When I opened the front door this afternoon someone had dumped a bag of the stuff.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Blood tipicle of HBC innit, closing the stable door when the horse has bolted:D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

It will be used on the footpath and street when its needed.

I might use the 2 buckets full of grit from the grit bin last year first though that I have saved for emergencies. The recent weather did not require its use.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

So thats where the shortage was last year, hoarding :D:D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Aaaah ! That's why you were flashing your eyelashes at Cllr. Britcliffe Wednesday night.. :D

Just a reminder (not Neil.. he knows obviously), that using the grit from the grit bins on your drive is considered theft.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Mine arrived.

To be honest, I've been really disappointed by a lot of comments on this thread.

Last year LCC got caught out with the snow and didn't provide enough grit in the bins. HBC were powerless because LCC manage all the gritting so this year tried to do something positive to help the residents.

Unfortunately they got caught out a bit by the early snowfall. I don't know about you, but I can't remember it snowing before Christmas for many, many years - who could have predicted that?

They did their best to get the word out through normal channels - i.e. website, papers, area management meetings etc - so if you didn't find out about it, it's because you actively avoid finding out. It's been a topic of discussion on here for about a month so there's no excuse for not knowing and then subsequently missing out. You can't blame the council for that - they did their best to let everyone know without incurring more costs.

As for the costs - the first post from Ken says that Cllr Ciaren Wells had calculated that it would cost £6.6m to do this. In reality it's been little over £16k. Heaven help us if someone with those maths skills ever gets in power.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Erm not quite, I was texting Cllr Pritchard (not one one with the funny chains on) to ask if someone on the front row was asleep though :D

I don't do my paths with grit, it makes the carpets dirty, use it on foot path sometimes but mainly on the road so the car can stop at the corner.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

It was that interesting was it? You thought the audience might be asleep?

Well now you know how I feel during your Chairman of Rhyddings Park speeches!!!!:D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Sucks in breath ... ;)

To be honest I'm a little disappointed with this post, so long winded & of no practical use.
Yes, LCC did get caught out last year, yes Ken did mention a fantasy figure of £6.6 million but had you read further you would have seen that he has promised not to attempt humour ever again.
I got a leaflet through my door from my Conservative representative bragging about this scheme, when I get home I'll scan it in, somehow it reads of creeping for votes, but what do I know, I am a mere engineer, of no artistic value to the community at all.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I know what I saw, I have just text you with names :D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

So have I. The total lack of people who can't see that it isn't free and it's just an vote catching ego trip at the council tax payers expense :rolleyes:

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Less has already commented on the £6.6m bit and even Cllr Britcliffe has heard about it as he mentioned it in full council on Tuesday.

(Hi Peter! Nice to know that you're hanging on my every word, sweetheart)

As far as the real cost is concerned it's escalated a good £7,500 above the original budget and will probably rise further. A better way of spending £10k would have been to buy four hand gritters at £630 apiece and just under 3 tonnes of grit for each of the 16 wards (at a current valuation of £4 for 25kg). Some wards aren't going to need 3 tonnes on the footpaths and everyone in the borough would have genuinely benefitted without all this rigmarole of phoning up, shovelling into bags and delivering.

Forgive me for looking for the simple solution instead of a vote-grabbing exercise before a by-election.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

It's a funny old thing Winter It sneaks up on you when you least expect it.That is why I tend to prepare for it as you never know what time of year It may arrive.:rolleyes:
Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones in so much I expect it to happen towards the end of the year and strange as it may seem I have always been found to be correct.Bit like the setting of the sun and the rising of the moon.(what ever):confused:

However to be on the safe side I watch the habits of the sheep in the fields.Never let me down yet.:D

So every year towards the end of October I arm myself with a large bucket of grit/salt just in case.:dancedog:

I suppose you could say grit or bust - but I won't.:D:D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I never had you down as the sort to ermmm watch :rolleyes: sheep but I suppose you can never tell what people are into :p

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I don't think that would be very practical. Where would you hand grit? When would you do it? Who would do it?

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Take no notice Gayle its all part of Ken Mosses campaign of hang Britcliffe from the yard arm, mind you if they hadn't moaned about grit, somebody would have found something else to prattle on about on here:D:D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I thank the lord I ain't able to attend Gayle:D:D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Rishton would be okay:D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Along the pavements.

When the weather is as severe as last week.

The borough caretakers (not much litter picking to be done when it's frozen under the ice).

To put that idea in perspective, most of the ice is now gone and the majority of wards are still waiting for their grit. If a team of four had gone gritting on the first day and done a minimum of two wards per day it would still have been far quicker. For the money that has been spent you could near enough do the same again when we get another cold snap and you would help more people rather than just the ones who managed to phone up in time.

The grit bags idea was OK in principle but the work, costs and man-hours involved outweigh the benefits of the exercise (unless you count the by-election).

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Actually, the only fair way would be names out of a hat. We've had the spin about height above sea level but that would have meant Rishton got its grit bags first and it hasn't happened...

Even alphabetical order doesn't work. St Andrews and St Oswalds last? I don't think so.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

2 wards a day using 4 people. Where do you hire super heros from?

Re: Free grit for all!
 

If three people can deliver leaflets to the whole of Rishton in five hours I suspect it is just about possible walking behind a grit spreader that needs refilling every few streets.

Let's be pessimistic, add a couple of extra people to the job, live on the edge.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Well, all I can do is apologise, I said I would scan the propaganda in, (surprised no one beat me to it), however I must have filed it in the white sack, but can't find it.

If I do come across it I will do as I said.
:(

P.S. to digress, while I was away I got a 2011-2012 calender, Which bin should the metal spiral be placed in for recycling?

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Just hang on a minute Ken. Where's the votes in doing that.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

You've got me bang to rights there, Bernard.

You'll have to forgive me, I'm only a junior opposition backbencher after all.....

Re: Free grit for all!
 

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:The mind boggles

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Doesn't take much for that to happen to a Tory.
:D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Thats because were the only ones wi sense:p

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I once bought a gritting device for use on the foothpaths and car parks at Melbourne House.
It was similar to a wheelbarrow - had a mechanical action which spun the grit out from the base as it moved. It was cheap and meant that the head cleaner could efficiently make the walkways safe.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

PS as an afterthought to my last post - the manual roadsweeping chaps couldn't work whilst there was snow, so they could use them.(no heavier than the barrows they are used to)
http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/ne...r-own-gritters

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Like you , Gayle , I've been disappointed by much on this thread .
It shows the shallowness and pettiness of politics in Hyndburn .

It carries over to this week's Accrington Observer .
Miles Parkinson submitted a motion to Tuesday's council meeting . The Labour group has accused the council of failing to deliver on its promises of free grit .

Peter Britcliffe rightly says that the unanticipated bad weather has slowed down deliveries . To me that is a valid response .

So Cllr Parkinson stop playing silly beggars .

In the same Observer a report shows that Peter Britcliffe is prattling on about Graham Jones' Parliamentary expenses . Graham Jones rightly points out the expense of living in London , and gives a valid justification for his expenses .

So Cllr Britcliffe stop playing silly beggars .

Once again , and I suppose it won't be the last time , we have examples of petty party politics .

A plague on both your houses , Tweedledum and Tweedledee .

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Are you aware of the irony of that statement?

We couldn't deliver grit to de-ice the roads because the roads were icy?

A borough-wide scheme which involved no extra effort on the part of the voters would have been far better, as it stands we have thousands of residents who have missed out on this overly-complicated exercise because they didn't live in the right ward.

We're back in the realm of common sense here. If you truly want to help everybody then you help everybody, you don't simply look after your own. I can only assume that Rishton and the other 'lesser' wards aren't high on the Conservative agenda. I'm afraid that all this political pettiness that you are obsessed with stems from political bias from the controlling group in the first place.

I'm sure someone somewhere will bring up past mistakes in order to justify this new one. Over to you, Jaysay....

Re: Free grit for all!
 

well to my small mind the best way would have been to work out from the depot in n increasing radius. making the way safer to get further?

Re: Free grit for all!
 

13 years of Labour rule have made this impossible. Probably.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

True but i only suggested it so Rishton would still be last.:D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

You monster!

Fortunately, I kept a few bags of fire ash for just such an occasion and it eats through ice for fun, even when cold. The residents on Bridge Street were grateful and made rather unflattering comments about the non-efforts of my Conservative counterpart who lives at the other end of the street.

Every now and then you do have to stick your head above the parapet and do what you said you would do if you got elected.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I thought it was a borough wide thing - who has missed out? Hasn't everyone had equal opportunity to get it? I don't understand.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

a wild guess but most of hyndburn wi the exception of ossy has probably missed out, cos who else has got it?:D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

It was a borough-wide thing, but you're talking about trying to inform 80,000+ residents about a scheme with a window of two weeks.

Residents in Baxenden were informed by blanket election campaigning, Oswaldtwistle speaks for itself, but some wards are still waiting for their deliveries.

I'm not knocking extra grit, just the bad implementation of its delivery to where it's really needed.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Ken you are starting to sound like a stuck record and it is getting very boring now.

I ordered a bad of grit after you informed us about it on here after the Rishton meeting.

The next time I heard about grit was at the Ossy Area Council meeting. I did not have a personal invite to order any posted through my door, no secret Ossy only phone calls. We don't have a bat sign in the sky to inform us of these things.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

my dads Mrs got hers yesterday....she lives at Stanhill

Re: Free grit for all!
 

At Last you've seen the light, sure as hel makes my job easier:D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Do pray Tell Kenneth, I live in Ossy and heard about this idea on here nowhere else no leaflets put through our doors, not personal phone calls(as if I'd get one anyway) but actually its time you backed your gob up with facts not innuendo:(

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I live in Spring Hill ward , and will have my grit delivered eventually . The side streets around here are not gritted . I never expected delivery during the unforseen early spell of very wintry weather . I am not going to blame the council for being behind any dates it promised .

Yes the scheme could have been planned better . I would have gone for a delivery to every house in the borough , but I am not going to go overboard and damn the council for it because Hyndburn is faced with issues of far greater importance which are not being addressed by its councillors .

You say I am obsessed with political pettiness . You admit that it exists . I have a democratic right to express my annoyance and anger at it . I am not some populist party political animal , so I will continue to vex my anger .

You say that the pettiness stems from the controlling group . No doubt some of it does . But don't make out that Labour , Old Labour , New Labour , whatever you want to call it , is squeaky clean in this regard . We aren't so gullible .

Re: Free grit for all!
 

If you're on about national politics then I'll agree that there is an awful lot of objecting just for the sake of it on all sides. I personally am happy to leave them to it, Westminster is far removed from my sphere of influence and (here it comes...) I'm far too busy with Hyndburn let it take up my time.

Objections to the Conservative policies in Hyndburn generally boil down to a lack of common sense, and I include some of the comments from the Independent group in there as well. I'll state yet again that all 35 of us are here primarily to serve the borough but 17 of that number seem to be under the illusion that public money is there to win popularity. We aren't here to look good, we aren't here to be everyone's best friend and we aren't here to splash money around while everyone else is being hammered and then blame 13 years of another government.

This was not the most effective way to use that money and it did not benefit as many people as it could have done. I'm not simply having what might be considered to be a Tory bash, I'm saying it how it is.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Next year at this time the sheep could well be wearing diverent clothes, but nothing will have changed and if you think any different your living on cloud cuckoo land;)

Re: Free grit for all!
 

It will be great next year though when every pavement in the whole of Hyndburn will be gritted buy half a dozen blokes for very little money.

It will make walking my two to school a lot safer.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I may even get out in my wheelchair Neil:rolleyes:

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I can see the news story now in the Observer (it will be about 3 weeks late) about how all the footpaths are clear but not the roads and how the Council have got their priorities all wrong.

The moaning brigade on here will be moaning about it before the Observer prints it :rolleyes::D

Like I said, damed if you do, damned if you dont.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I don't think Ken has thought about the manpower of giving the grit to local people. If it snows heavy it'd take forever to send council workers out to clear it from all the pavements. If lots of households have grit they can all do their little bit. There should be grit left over if it snows again, for people to do their little bit again, rather than waiting a week or two for the council to clear the pavements!

As for the election, Baxenden is hardly a marginal seat. Labour accusing the Conservatives of trying to buy the by-election with grit-bribery is rather laughable and helps to explain why they've been out of office in Hyndburn so long.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Nice try but I will quote Tealeaf from earlier in the thread

Where does it mention pavements ?

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Splitting hairs, Lancsdave. They were just trying to say you can use it on your drive/back yards, unlike the grit from the bins. You winding up ? :D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Well I ain't going to walk through everybody's back yard just so I don't slip ;)

Not winding up, just think it's all wrong :mad:

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Like I said before - should the Council provide grit for residents private property or is that the responsibility of the resident?

Re: Free grit for all!
 

And I said before, the council shouldn't provide it, they should concentrate on public areas, ie pavements :D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Basically, no, Neil, not much cost to buy grit or table salt is it ? Or, if able, to clear it yourself. Just a gesture I reckon.

Well, wouldn't be feasible/cost effective to clear all pavements within the borough ... even with Ken's ludicrous suggestion. For a start, would need more than four men .... have to be at it 24/7, which would mean doubling this workforce. Then wouldn't be just the once after it melts and freezes again ! That's for starters. We do have sixteen wards.

By the way, Ossy did not get priority for deliveries :

From HBC website :

Latest news

Grit Deliveries in Hyndburn

Published Tuesday 30th November 2010 in Council and democracy news
Deliveries for Hyndburn Borough Council's extra grit for residents has now started.
The First deliveries in Baxenden, Knuzden and Belthorn have now been completed as we expect to finish Great Harwood today.
We will be delivering in Rishton and Oswaldtwistle this week.
If you live in any of these areas and you have not received your grit by the end of this week, you will be on our second wave of deliveries for those who called or emailed us after 25th November.
We will update this website with our delivery proress.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I agree, but they could do some. They obviously should prioritise areas more heavily used by the public and work from there.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

That's Peel Street then ? :D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Well it is AND STILL REMAINS FOR A WHILE YET, the bus station, a central hub for people coming in and out of town :p

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Hahaha ... 'YET'. Agree, the pavements around the centre should have been salted, plus Blackburn Road. :D Are there any grit bins in town ?

plus:

Union Road, Ossy.
Pickup Street/ Barnes Square, Clayton.
Towngate .. Great Harwood.
High Street, Rishton.
Henry Street, Church.

and the other wards where there is heavy public footfall.

You could argue around schools, doctor's surgeries, etc.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Don't recall seeing any grit bins in town. I agree with the rest of your post. :D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

It would appear that they did some work on shifting the snow in Harwood, on the main shopping street's that is. I think that's a good thing. I would also agree with Dave there are some obvious areas such as the town centre in Accrington that should be cleared.

I think it was right for the Council to try do something about snow clearing, over and above what the County has responsibility for.But I just feel there may just be a more efficient way of going about it .

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I think somebody mentioned before that when it snows heavily the street cleaners become effectively redundant for the duration. Don't see a problem where they can't do their normal areas with a baroow full of grit instead of a wheely bin. Having said that on Peel St we have an exceptional street cleaner who would do the job well, but if it snows on the days he is off and we have to rely on the waste of a wage replacements he has we'd be snowed in for weeks :rolleyes:

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I think roads should take priority over footpaths so people can get to work and school. Keeping schools open is not given enough priority in my opinion.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I 'think' there is still a bit of a legal quagmire with regard to gritting pavements ... like if people see the grit ... think it is safe and then slip they could sue, etc.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Thats cos yer all tarts these days, schools never used to close wi a lot more snow n ice n ya get now.:D plus nobody had a car ya had to walk, shock horror.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Well, as you know, Neil .. roads are LCC... they have not the resources to take on board the footpaths too so up to HBC to try and help.

As for keeping schools open !! Well, don't get me going on that one. Sure .. some schools in Scotland have been surrounded by snow and very rural, but schools in our area have not been too badly cut off. Don't really think it is the pavements surrounding schools .. just getting to it in the first place .. that's why the priority is the major roads. Unfortunately, lots of people can't get their car out of their road. Most pupils are within at least 3 miles of the school and is easily walkable for young people or they could have walked to the nearest bus stop. Suppose the problem is that more teachers live further away, but can surely manage with who turns up.

My daughter lives in West Yorkshire and had it far worse than we have ... she walked the 4 miles every day to her surgery in the worst times (impossible to get her car up the winding, icy hill she lives on) ...and she is only a little dot.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

well said kate, yer lass was brought up not to be a tart.;)

Kate, people can't get their car off the drive because they have summer types on their cars. First time I have driven on winter types and I am amazed with the difference. My car on summer tyres struggled to move outside our house. Rhonda's car has 4 winter tyres on and it was superb on the ice and snow. I wish I had them on mine.

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Well said Cashy, the only time schools ever closed when i were young, was if the central heating broke down. Other than that no matter what the weather you went to school, and that meant walking all the way. No namby pamby whimps in those days. :D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

The Romans have given us roads since those days, we expect them to be usable :)

Re: Free grit for all!
 

They didn't have lots of side streets though did they .. and not many people had chariots then .. :D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

True but then the romans weren't tarts either.:tongueout

Re: Free grit for all!
 

And for 2 thousand years we managed to walk on those roads, now it seems to be oh my god there seems to be a cloud keep the kids off school we can phone work and say that it's impossible to get in, and while no ones looking we'll go panic buying in Asda just in case. :D:D:D:D:D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I don't think it is quite as simple as that.
So much emphesis is put on the schools duty of care to the children that the parents who complain about the schools being shut would be the first to complain if the children could not get home because the busses could not get through.

When the schools closed the other week the bus companies were contacting schools to say they could come now for the kids but might not be able to get through later.

My son goes to St Chris's, they have kids from as far as Burnley so its not practical to say walk home. Even when I was at school I had to travel 7 miles by bus to the secondary schools in Clitheroe.

If you were the head teacher and the bus companies were saying they would not be able to take your kids home at 3.30pm but could come now at 1pm what would you do?

I think most of the problem is down to our transport system not being able to cope with a bit of snow. Its laughable when you look at most of northern Europe and what they manage with. We seem to have the attitude over here that it does not snow much so we wont bother being prepared.

How many of you have shovels in the boot of your car and warm clothes incase you get stuck.

Last night on the news it was saying that the Scottish Transport Minister has resigned because they were not ready and they mentioned forcing wagons to use winter tyres as some of the problems were caused by stranded wagons.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I think shop keepers should be responsible for their own pavements myself:rolleyes::D:p

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Well there is one think for sure Alan if I had shares, I wouldn't mind having a few thousand for Cotton Wool, hell there's a lot used these days, a hell of a site more than when I was a youngster:rolleyes:

Re: Free grit for all!
 

So you would have been far too busy playng Santa Claus for Rishtoners to be involved in Graham Jones' campaign to get elected to Westminster ? :D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Not to worry JCB, Kens only a part time Labour Party Member, like most others, only agree when it suites own agenda:rolleyes:

Re: Free grit for all!
 

How can shopkeepers be held responsible for a pavement not owned by them?

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Ther water board think we are. We have no water in the shop but we have to pay water rates for drainage. When I asked why they said it's to take away OUR rainwater from the pavement outside :mad:

Re: Free grit for all!
 

It rains on the roof and your guttering takes it to the pavement.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

I wonder how much LCC pay for taking their water off their roads?

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Ay least it won't be contaminated with grit :D

Re: Free grit for all!
 

When we had the downpours a few weeks ago it came thorugh the roof. Should I claim a refund on the rates ? :)

Re: Free grit for all!
 

Do me a favour and e-mail me a copy of my agenda will you? I seem to have lost my copy.

Re: Free grit for all!
 

That safe a seat that Baroness Warsi was parachuted in to help the Tory campaign and the majority has dropped to a just a few hundred instead of the landslide it once was.

It's clear that the weight of feeling from a few of you is against the idea of hand gritters being used by a redundant litter-picking workforce. Fair enough, I'm big enough to accept defeat when an idea isn't that popular, but can any of you explain why this scheme which was open to everyone in the borough and costed at £10,000 didn't actually reach everyone in the borough by quite a margin?

If the Leader had provisioned for every household phoning up for a bag of grit would it not have been simpler to just deliver a bag of grit to every household? I'm afraid the residents of Rishton have not benefitted at all.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding in a huge way but until it is categorically defended by one of the Tory faithful as having acheived what it promised I will remain cynical.