Minimum Price Alcohol
 

I've not really been around for a few days but it was all over the news on Friday about some north west councils looking to introduce the minimum price on alcohol in an effort to reduce alcohol-related incidents at weekend. Now either I am fortunate enough to live in an area that is magnificently low on that score (and indeed again when I lived in Lostock Hall) or the media is blowing this out of all proportion.

Some genius on the radio said that this will not impact on sensible drinkers but the question really is how? Price up for one is price up for all and the relief at saving a few quid a week when Asda put their wine back down to 3 for £10 was palapable, as a glass of wine is the only release I have from work.

The pubs are on their arse as it is, how many more pleasures are we going to have taxed out of our price range? I am not happy about this and will fight tooth and nail to keep it out of Hyndburn.

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Think it was Manchester Ken never heard of any council round here thinking of it

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There are a few councils considering it and the fact that it's even in the national debate at all means that it's on the doorstep. I know you're suffering from enforced abstinence but think of those of us who have a good 40 or 50 years of drinking left in us!

The smoking laws have done enough damage to pubs by not being flexible, let's not make the same mistake with beer.

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We have laws in this country because there are a minoirty of people who think they can live how they want, therefore the majority accept the law because of the minority.

I can think of nothing better for this country than raising the price of a pint to £20 and a gram of weed to £500 :)

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You missed out petrol @ £20 a gallon.:eek:

Nobody smoking,drinking or driving,Would save the NHS a fortune in fact to hear the do-gooders talk we wouldn't need it.:rolleyes::D:D

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Not sure how you can be flexible with a smoking ban. There either IS one or there ISN'T.

The ban has to be seen in a long term context. Yes, some people have stopped going to pubs because they can't have a smoke, but others are being drawn to them by the cleaner atmosphere, and the knowledge their clothes won't smell like a used ash tray next morning.

As for pricing of alcohol, the suggestion has been to make the minimum price 50p per unit to get rid of cheap 2 for 1 supermarket and off licence offers. It equates to a pound a pint, so unless there are any pubs selling beer below that level, they won't be affected.

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Talking of whom, there's what could be an interesting 3 part series starting on BBC2 tomorrow at 9pm.

Ian Hislop's Age of the Do-Gooders
Ian Hislop rescues the reputation of the 'Do-Gooders' who he believes fixed the 19th century's version of 'broken Britain'
BBC - Press Office - Ian Hislop to celebrate "do-gooders" in new BBC Two series

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No chance , I drive :D

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Take no notice gynn, its only Ken Sabre rattling again, latter on in he thread no doubt it will be Britcliffes idea;) Well he ain't had a pop at him for a coule of weeks has he :D

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What a load of rubbish, have spoken to quite a few landlords/stewards since the ban n "ALL" say it has had a big effect on trade,i was workin in a club fer a good while when it was introduced, many remarked that "Where" are these Non Smokers that are supposed to be coming.:rolleyes:

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Me!

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Not bad for a person that sleeps 80 times a day.:eek::D:D

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Its all that smoke free alcohol that sends me off!

;)

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There are quite a few flaws in your reasoning there.

Firstly, I said smoking laws, not flexibility on a ban. If there were dedicated smoking rooms or even smoking pubs then the story would be much different. I won't deny that it is nice to come home and not need a shower before bed but the lack of smokers has killed pub atmospheres stone dead in many cases.

Secondly, it only equates to a pound a pint if beer is of a certain strength and that would push most real ale past the £3 a pint mark. Also, if what you say were true then we should be seeing pints sold for less than a quid now and we aren't.

This is another prime example of the nanny state angling for another stealth tax. I didn't agree with the smoking ban and I don't agree with this.

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As far as I'm aware Peter hasn't even mentioned it and it isn't a Tory-bash either, it's just a rail against a potential forthcoming stupid knee-jerk reaction to a few badly-edited news reports. They were that desperate for interviews on the radio on Friday that they collared an 83 year old woman who had slipped coming out of a pub.

I'm sure there are plenty of medical bods who will say that Friday and Saturday see a rise in the number of people hurt through drink but I've never been one of them and I don't know anyone who has been either. Too few dictating to too many yet again.

An example of this cropped up at my surgery yesterday. For years, one particular residents group has been screaming that lower Rishton needs a bus shelter and that everyone complains about not having one so we allocated the funds and agreed that since it directly affected the front of one or two houses we would let the residents themselves have the final say.

All of those shouting about the weight of public opinion on getting a new shelter.....didn't turn up.

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Ok how many pubs have closed or on last legs? since the ban, also how many more than YOU are ya aware of? also how many drink at home, specially in bad weather since the ban?:rolleyes:

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Sadly it is yet another case of people that don't play the game making the rules.:eek:

We are all aware of the dangers but we put other people first in so much as we fund the services that provide the more wealthy with the care they are to tight to pay for themselves.Or to put it in the words of Alf Garnett we do it for Britain.:jimbo::D:D

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The ban on smoking in pubs came in UK long before it did in France, so when I went to Portsmouth to do a 3 month contract I came across the ban in full flow - even with "police" checking places out.
It was quite obvious in the Portsmouth/Gosport/Fareham and surrounding areas, that pubs who had good smoking areas, and I do mean good, even though it was summer, were the ones that were thriving - the ones who didn't cater for smokers, quite often due to location, were suffering very badly.
One thing that really P'd me off was that the bar in the House of Commons was exempt from the ban initially.
Even though I don't smoke now, I do not find much pleasure in going into a pub/club for a drink, unless United are on the TV or it is an Accyweb Meet.
It does not bother me one little bit when others smoke in my company - which surprises me somewhat.

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Look, there's a simple solution to the problem of (cheap) alcohol abuse and minimum pricing is not it. What needs to be done is quite simple. Licenses to sell alcohol are withdrawn from every corner shop and licenses to sell alcohol (other than wines and spirits) are withdrawn from every supermarket. That just leaves your traditional pubs selling alcohol in volume and as such you reinstitute control on who is drinking and by how much. And you also keep traditional pubs alive.

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Good idea - but, get a cheap ferry over to France and buy 90 litres for between less than 50p a pint (7.9%). You can't stop it either, so everything just goes black market, like it has with tobacco.

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Oh how people change when they get elected they can't tell when someone is taking the urine any more:D:p

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Works for me Tealeaf, but you know as well as I do it want happen mate

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Yeah! And you know why? Because the retailers will all quote European law on restraint of trade. And your Tory/Lib Dem government - the biggest surrender merchants in British history - won't do a dam thing.

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Maths time again.

Taken from here Real Ale Pub Online

So if

0.568 x %abv = number of units

then

%abv = number of units / 0.568

So here we go folk

£3 / 50p = 6 Units

6 / 0.568 = 10.56 % abv

You drink some wicked real ale. Some wine is only that %abv so you could get a pint of wine for £3

If you don't believe me about the wine read this

From Alcoholic beverage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

0.568 x 9 = 5.1 units 5.1 * 50p = £2.55
0.568 x 16 = 9.1 units 9.1 * 50p = £4.55


If my maths are wrong is because I drank too much whiskey last night :rolleyes::D:D

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Wouldn't have had to do if that DH Brown hadn't signed the Lisbon Treaty;)

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The thing is the price of a pint in the local pub wouldn't be effected, the average pint is around £2 or saw I'm told saw a minimum 50p a unit would have no effect

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If you're working that out from what I put in my post then fine but a pint of ale costs you a good £2.30 at best in a pub (Wetherspoons being the honourable exception) so although your maths works in theory, it reality it's the stuff of fairytales.

Do as many sums as you like, minimum pricing will make beer more expensive in pubs.

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Why will it? If the suggestion is 50p per unit it wont change most pub prices.

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*cough* home brew..... *cough*

you can make booze very cheaply, if you price people out of the legit stuff you just encourage the moonshine business and people buying knock off vodka ( or is that industrial alcohol..... ) that will make them go blind.

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Neill, forget the price WE pay in a pub.What does the landlord pay the brewery? If IT works out at less than 50p/unit the brewery will have to charge HIM more so to survive he'll have to charge US more!Pure profit for the brewery.
Also the supermarkets will make a fortune- this rise will be pure profit for them as well.
If the Government put tax up so you couldn't buy cheap beer I wouldn't like it but at least the money might save us being taxed more some other way. As it is the Government are proposing 50p/unit minimum price, not a tax increase, so the only beneficiaries are the sellers.Where can I get some shares in Tesco/Asda?

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There's about 38 units in a bottle of my favourite whisky (Ardbeg Uigeadail), it costs £49.99 if you pay full price. Will I be able to buy a bottle for nineteen quid under this 50p per unit rule?

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As soon as I posted that I saw the flaw in my logic!
If the 50p is charged at source,i.e. the brewers, pub prices might go up but the supermarkets would have to pay more also.
If it is charged at the retail point,which is more likely,the supermarkets will love it.I still want some shares!

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If only!
Heads the supermarkets/retailers win, tails you lose!

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How do you work that our Ken, pub beers of 3.4% volume have only 2 units on our prices £1-15 a unit

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Stop talking sense, you cant sensationalise stories when you talk sense :rolleyes::D

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I know, I know, Neil but I'm not a councillor;)

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I can tell, you don't have your picture in the paper ever week :rolleyes::D

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Nor would I want too, people start to hate you when you get too much publicity:D

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He used to make a contribution to the Observer letters page every week.:D

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That was in another life, many years ago, and don't forget the LT and Citizen too:p:p:p

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What as ?

Mr Angry ?;) Fashion Guru ?:D:D Political analyst ? :hitting8::rofl38:

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No just a Sh one t stirrer Dave:D

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is that why yer pictures yer avatar?:dflam:

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No it's cuz I like seeing how I used to look:D

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You used to look like Road Runner (beep beep):D

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Ya I got about a bit quicker in them days Beni:D:do-one:

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The Noble Experiment ( the prohibition of alcohol in the USA from 1920 to 1933 ) is worth considering . I am sure the majority of Accy Webbers would favour a similar noble experiment in the UK .

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I sure would was quite a few ways to make a bob or 2 back then.:D

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Thought you might be first in the queue to sign the pledge . :rolleyes:

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I'll dig the old still out cashy:D

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Followed by Less Beni and mick:rolleyes:

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One of the first science lessons I had at school was how to make a still.I don't think they had Vodka in mind at the time but I'm sure glad I took notice.:cool::D:D

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Saw we can expect more Malt and Barley being purchased by the Baby Pete household then:D

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I was quite proficient making beer & wine during my time in Saudi. Didn't have a still, but freeze distilling worked, managed to get around 35% proof that way - trying for more than that produced a fantastic "Slush Puppy"

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He who hesitates is lost.;)

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I used to brew wine and beer, but not spirits.
Prohibition in USA is what originally gave the Mafia the money and power they still have.
Now they make money via other illegal practices - drugs and prostitution

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I'd like to drink in whatever pub you are talking about! Samuel Smiths pubs are the only ones which charge a reasonable price for their own beer, even The Oyster Bar in Manchester city centre is cheaper than any of the local pubs in Rishton.

As I said, do whatever maths you like to prove me wrong but if it ever comes in round here I'm afraid drinking will become an even more expensive hobby. Most pubs put up beer prices by 10p each budget despite the rise only being a couple of pence. They don't need to but they use it as an excuse and the breweries aren't going to miss out on that.

I'll happily be proven wrong if and when the day comes but the pessimist in me still thinks that the smell of extra money will prove too strong for the majority of breweries.

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Hang on a minute, if minimum price is 50p per unit, a pint is about on average £2-30 and is about 2 units, how will the price be affected:confused:

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In theory it shouldn't be and I hope it isn't, but theory has been proved wrong over a lot of things.

In theory, decimalisation shouldn't have altered the price of things one iota, a penny tax rise shouldn't raise the price of ale by ten pence, the low cost of fuel over the summer should see gas and electricity prices drop later in the year.

Funny how prices don't always run according to logic.

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Price is going up in my local by 5p making it £1-70 for John Smiths - Carling will be £1-80.

Not the strongest beer in the world but at 4% and 4.2% it will do for me:D:cheers:

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Not bad, I must admit. Price-wise, that is.

Carling I can just about stand but John Smiths.....how did that ever become popular?

Get some Moorhouses down ya!

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Any Stronger Beni and you would be a head the ball:D:D:D

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Thats brewed in Dingleland:eek::eek::eek::eek::D

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Pitiful ;) Standard here 4.8-5.0% then there's the regular "Stark Biers" 5.0-8.0% & of course the "Bocks" Seaonals usually round 6 -7%. Line em up Landlord. :thepint::s_aim1:

And on top of that they don't have all kinds of weird & wonderful ideas about taxing it either, standard across the board.

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Schlosser Alt was one that I really enjoyed, also had to put down a lot of Berliner Kindl - spelling may be a bit out. Drink German beer here - much cheaper - 4.2 = 39 cents, 7.9 = 49 cents, Grafenwalder, tastes good too.:D:D:D

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Alts are pretty good Beers as a comparison to Uk I'd say 'Mild' would be the closest, still Schlösser 4.8% ;) There you go Barrie ! Cheers !

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3.4% is too strong for some of the numpties over here:rolleyes:

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Of course all that strong beer on the Continent could explain quite a lot.:mosher::D:D

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Never thought of that Beni, mind you Mancie don't live on the continent, does he:confused::D:D

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The point is Dad, the grafenwalder that is 39 euro cents a can over there is 75 pence per can here. We're already paying way over the top for booze in this country.

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Also, stop being posh. The best beer to drink in Berlin was Shultheiss

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You have either absolutely no taste or would drink bath water if told it contained Alcohol "Schultheiss" should be banned under "Humming rights" or the Geneva convention ! In fact both, it's terrible stuff only reason it's cheap is because it's abysmal !:D

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You mean a bit like Courage in this country Dave:D

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Except that Courage beers aren't cheap, John. Mass-produced slop for the most part, I'll give you that!

Had a few pints of Robinsons Dizzy Blonde by the furnace last night, it makes winter working tolerable to know something of that quality is waiting for you at the end of the day.

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It's only a matter of time before that particular avenue of pleasure is targeted as well. Once it gets popular enough again then I'm sure we'll see a review of the law.

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We I always said ya need courage to drink it Ken:D, funny thing is when I worked for Lancs Barfitters nearly every fitter drank Guinness because it mattered very little were you were it was the same, if you got a bad pint of Guinness you left the pub because the other beer would be rubbish too:rolleyes:

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They can put it up for me i don,t drink

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You must make allowances - he was a humble squaddie:D:D

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Don't like the Avatar - the dog was better, besides Tiggers don't roar, they bounce;);):D

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good man!! I also love to relax with a glass of wine myself!! shouldnt punish the good people should they eh x

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Once again the spectre rises. What I take issue with is that they've identified were the problem lies (allegedly) so instead of solely dealing with the cause, they intend applying blanket coverage so even the "reasonable drinkers" are hit too.

How very political :(

Theresa May defends government alcohol pricing plans - Home News - UK - The Independent

Re: Minimum Price Alcohol
 

This is another example of the police and the courts not doing their job. If there is town centre violence fuelled by drink as she says then deal with the offender very harshly.

The problem is not the price of the alcohol, it is obviously the amount consumed and I don't think the price will change that.

Some people think the only way they can have a good night out is to get totally falling down drunk. I could never understand that personally but I don't think increasing the price will help.

I think the root cause of the problem is not the drink itself but the people who want to be drunk.

Drink related crime should carry a much harsher punishment than it currently does.
Several years ago people thought nothing of driving after drinking, now it is seen as wrong by most people.
The same thing needs to happen for drunkenness in the street and the trouble that comes from it.

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This will be just another stealth tax,:rolleyes: Far easier to tax "All" drinkers of ale, Than sort those who abuse it. They bleat on about the cost to the N.H.S. when it would be wiser in my view to introduce payment for the use of the services fer these idiots.:mad: Drink related crime i agree wi neil, harsher sentences plus pay fer any damages etc caused.

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Stop the Happy Hours a to discourage binge drinkers.

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But it won't effect the "hoorah Henry's" who get senseless on champagne every year at the various social do's they act irresponsibly as well but can afford to pay for the increases! :alright:

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Whatever the price the "Hooray Henries" will always afford to drink

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That would only have a minimal effect, very few places do em,;)

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OK Yah

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Again its not fair on the sensible drinkers who fancy a few cheap drinks.

This is punishing the good majority because of the actions of the minority

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As always sensible people always have to pay for the errant ways of the few

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It would be necessary to increase the price of alcohol astronomically by numerous pounds per unit rather than pence to have any impact. And then of course the trade in illegal alcohol would increase so it would create more problems than it would allegedly solve. This is just another tax on the poor dressed up as a public health issue. And I completely agree with Kestrelx about the hooray henrys who will continue to behave outrageously no matter what - I am thinking David Cameron and George Osbourne and their antics with the Bullingdon Club - do as I say and not as I do?

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I would be worried that people might be tempted to turn to cheaper drugs to get their fix. Grandpas medicine, goofy boots, spank or herbal jazz cigarettes, that sort of thing.

It's a tax on the poor, simple as.

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How can it be a tax on the poor when there is no extra taxation. The shop wont be allowed to sell it for less than a fixed price.

If people have the money to drink alcohol does that class them as whatever you meant by poor?

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A much more sensible idea would be to take alcohol out of the supermarkets...put it back into selling out shops/off licences.

Take public houses back to limited hours. I'm sure that this would be better for the publicans as well as the public.

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I think short pub hours encourages binge drinking.

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What I meant was that it's an indirect tax. The more well off will not really notice it but the less well off will suffer.

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I completely agree with your comment Margaret although I do like my Saturday and Sunday afternoon couple of hours in the pub with friends. But the cafe society which was expected as a result of getting rid of limited hours never really materialised did it!

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Well, Neil making opening hours longer hasn't cured that has it.
It is an attitudinal problem, as you commented in an earlier post.

Some people just go out to get drunk.......and they start at home first on the cheaper supermarket stuff.
Maybe, what the brewers should be doing, is reducing the ABV........making drinks weaker.......watering it down.

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That might help but they might put the price up more, some soft drinks cost more than beer

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Even a pint of Shandy costs the same as a pint of beer. I'm sure CAMRA will kick of if the ABV is reduced