Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 958769)

Well it will never be brought back claytonx, it wouldn't be so bad if murderer WERE sent down for life, I can never understand any judge saying I sentence you to life in prison and you'll serve a minimum of, say, 15 years, utter nonsense, say what you like about the American justice system, they do make the punishment fit the crime, pity we done follow suit here

Originally Posted by Michael1954 (Post 958773)

And if Stefan Ivan Kiszko had been given the death penalty, what would you have said to his poor mother when he was finally cleared of Lesley Molseed's murder?

Originally Posted by Michael1954 (Post 958773)

And if Stefan Ivan Kiszko had been given the death penalty, what would you have said to his poor mother when he was finally cleared of Lesley Molseed's murder?

Originally Posted by Michael1954 (Post 958773)

And if Stefan Ivan Kiszko had been given the death penalty, what would you have said to his poor mother when he was finally cleared of Lesley Molseed's murder?

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 958781)

Ya but what cleared him, DNA the same thing that is putting murderers behind bars today, I can't see the rhyme or reason for keeping the likes of Huntley behind bars living the life of Riley, 3 square a day, Sky TV Game Boy, stereo, and that's supposed to be punishment:mad:

Originally Posted by Michael1954 (Post 958773)

And if Stefan Ivan Kiszko had been given the death penalty, what would you have said to his poor mother when he was finally cleared of Lesley Molseed's murder?

Originally Posted by Michael1954 (Post 958773)

And if Stefan Ivan Kiszko had been given the death penalty, what would you have said to his poor mother when he was finally cleared of Lesley Molseed's murder?

Originally Posted by Michael1954 (Post 958773)

And if Stefan Ivan Kiszko had been given the death penalty, what would you have said to his poor mother when he was finally cleared of Lesley Molseed's murder?

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 958791)

Somehow, I don't think "sorry, s..t happens" would cut it.:rolleyes: Here's a few more:
Canada's wrongful convictions - Canada - CBC News

And to those, like Jaysay, who admire the American justice system: why don't capital punishment and heavy jail sentences seem to be working:confused: If they did work, the US wouldn't be the crime capital of the "civilized" world.

Originally Posted by claytonx (Post 958759)

Do you think murders would be reduced if the threat of hanging was brought back. I remember life in prison was voted for instead which does not happen.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 958792)

Not too sure about that Eric,:confused: the fact yeh can buy guns like we buy sweets must contribute i reckon?:confused:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 958795)

Canadians have guns .... lots of them ... I have six. But we don't generally drive around shooting other Canadians. If I felt like it, and had the cash to waste, I could go to the local gun store and buy as many guns as I wanted. All I need is my Firearms Aquisition Certificate. Hand guns and assault rifles, no. But it doesn't take much to cut down a shotgun, or to mickey mouse a semi-automatic so that it fires on full. The difference between the murder rates in Canada and the US can't be explained merely by citing the easier acces to firearms in the US. Detroit, just across the border from Windsor, ON, has more murders than the whole of Canada. Windsor's murder rate is around zero.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 958798)

Fair point, then all canadians i ever met, aint got a John Wayne mentality, my thoughts having visited quite a few states- is half of em still think its the wild west.:)

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 958803)

Not to mention the no-go areas in most of their major cities. Weird bunch south of '49.:D

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 958804)

Funny that, I've bar-crawled in Harlem, walked round southside Chicago, wandered through south Memphis and not even felt slightly threatened. Maybe they could tell I was from Accy! ;)

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 958804)

Funny that, I've bar-crawled in Harlem, walked round southside Chicago, wandered through south Memphis and not even felt slightly threatened. Maybe they could tell I was from Accy! ;)

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 958810)

Oh i never felt threatened n been in some pretty unusual places out yon, got the opinion from some of the conversations i had.;)

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 958814)

I reckon the real nutters out there are the right-wing Christian fundamentalists...and you don't find many of them in Harlem. :cool:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 958791)

Somehow, I don't think "sorry, s..t happens" would cut it.:rolleyes: Here's a few more:
Canada's wrongful convictions - Canada - CBC News

And to those, like Jaysay, who admire the American justice system: why don't capital punishment and heavy jail sentences seem to be working:confused: If they did work, the US wouldn't be the crime capital of the "civilized" world.

Originally Posted by Michael1954 (Post 958811)

I used to work in Salford, and that could be a bit rough, especially the walk from Salford Crescent railway station to my place of work. You had to walk under an underpass, and on a couple of occasions I was spat on by gangs hanging about.

Originally Posted by Michael1954 (Post 958876)

I forgot to add that I would happily string this lot up!

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 958871)

America's a very big country Eric, home to many different races and cultures, but my point with the American system, if you kill somebody in cold blood there is no second chance, its either the needle, the chair or the gas chamber, failing that life without the chance of parole, in good old Britain murderers can get 30 years and be back on the streets before they're 50, victims don't get that chance

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 958912)

Canada's a very big country, home to many different races and cultures. We don't have the death penalty. And even (notice I began this sentence with a conjunction;)) without the death penalty, our murder rate is going down. In fact, the rates for all types of crime are on the way down. Point is though, if anyone could demonstrate to me ... logically, statistically, whatever -ally, that capital pusnishment is a deterrent to murder, I would be all in favour of it. But as far as I can see, it doesn't work as a deterrent. I know folks who are in favout of it for the wrong reasons: probably the decendants of those who did their knitting by the guillotine, or who got their jollies at Tyburn. But, as a deterrent to murder, it just doesn't work. And however many jerks, assholes, losers, etc. are hanged, fried, or shot, it will never work.

Originally Posted by maxthecollie (Post 958874)

with DNA today and it can be proved without a shadow of doubt murderers should be killed then tax payers money would not be wasted feeding and looking after them in prison

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 958912)

Canada's a very big country, home to many different races and cultures. We don't have the death penalty. And even (notice I began this sentence with a conjunction;)) without the death penalty, our murder rate is going down. In fact, the rates for all types of crime are on the way down. Point is though, if anyone could demonstrate to me ... logically, statistically, whatever -ally, that capital pusnishment is a deterrent to murder, I would be all in favour of it. But as far as I can see, it doesn't work as a deterrent. I know folks who are in favout of it for the wrong reasons: probably the decendants of those who did their knitting by the guillotine, or who got their jollies at Tyburn. But, as a deterrent to murder, it just doesn't work. And however many jerks, assholes, losers, etc. are hanged, fried, or shot, it will never work.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 958924)

It might be worthwhile checking out how much it costs in the US to keep a guy on death row while he goes through all the appeal processes which are his right as a US citizen. It might surprise you. And give you something to occupy yourself on a cold winter's day.;) The saving money argument works just about as well as the deterrent argument.

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 958920)

They do say no one hanged for murder ever committed another one-or any other crime come to that.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 958929)

Don't buy that at all, talking about the U.K. not the U.S.A. we aint got a death row n the circus that goes wi it.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 958941)

But you will have ... there are lawyers, probably a lot like your former PM's wife, who will make sure of it;)

Originally Posted by mobertol (Post 958928)

And I agree fully with what you say Eric;)

A death penalty for me is impossible to defend in a civilized society.

What do you think are the particular set of circumstances in Canada that make the lowering of the crime rate a reality?

Do you think that it has something to do with the quality of life that you have over there?

Is it something to do with the style of policing?

Is there just a different mentality among the population which is successfully transmitted to the young - do you think that people have greater hope of having decent prospects and a better life?

So many of our young people are disillusioned with what the UK/ Europe can offer -the future seems pretty dismal and perhaps that is a factor affecting the crime rate here (undoubtedly it was a factor in the summer riots both in the UK and Italy).

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 958939)

Yes, true indeed. But did he commit the murder he was hanged for?

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 958964)

Pointless discussing that once he's hanged.

Perhaps if we made hangings public again it would be more of a deterrent?

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 958912)

Canada's a very big country, home to many different races and cultures. We don't have the death penalty. And even (notice I began this sentence with a conjunction;)) without the death penalty, our murder rate is going down. In fact, the rates for all types of crime are on the way down. Point is though, if anyone could demonstrate to me ... logically, statistically, whatever -ally, that capital pusnishment is a deterrent to murder, I would be all in favour of it. But as far as I can see, it doesn't work as a deterrent. I know folks who are in favout of it for the wrong reasons: probably the decendants of those who did their knitting by the guillotine, or who got their jollies at Tyburn. But, as a deterrent to murder, it just doesn't work. And however many jerks, assholes, losers, etc. are hanged, fried, or shot, it will never work.

Originally Posted by mobertol (Post 958928)

And I agree fully with what you say Eric;)

A death penalty for me is impossible to defend in a civilized society.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 958974)

No it wouldn't ... would just mean that more sickos could get together and watch someone hang ... lot like a snuff movie, eh. Kinda like the hard-line islamists, who fill football stadiums with horny males getting their jollies from watching women being flogged.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 958978)

Well living in a civilised society, its best to put rabid dogs down, animals do not behave like some people claiming to be human beings, When your dealing with scum that act like rabid animals the only thing in my eyes is to put them down

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 958985)

How did the discussion get around to rabies:confused: Seems like you are setting yourself up as judge and jury. Don't you guys already have a well-established system for that, one that has been around for, let me think ... at least the time of Henry ll?

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 958988)

Maybe we should put all the old folk in prison and the crims in the old folks homes...now that would be a bit of justice...especially if the crims had to pay for the pleasure of being 'looked after'.

Originally Posted by claytonx (Post 958759)

Do you think murders would be reduced if the threat of hanging was brought back. I remember life in prison was voted for instead which does not happen.

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 958993)

Hey Ho, Margaret, that was one of my first threads and Less told me off for not saying it was a quote so I may have to rebuke you!
( It was too clever for me to have thought of myself! He probably realizes that now).
However, there was a lot of truth in it!

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 959038)

I wasn't quoting from an e-mail or anything else in particular.........it just seems crazy that the old folk of this country can be cold, lonely and hungry while the miscreants(and that is just me being diplomatic) are looked after admirably....and all this is paid for by our taxes, whilst these old folk have to sell their homes to pay for their care. It just seems to me that society has its' values a bit skewed.

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy (Post 959021)

The death penalty should not be brought for the simple reason that it would make us no better than they are. It sends out a message of inhumanity. An eye for an eye and the whole world turns blind.

Secondly, I don't think it would be a deterent as most murders are either in the heat of the moment after provocation or by psychopaths. The logical thought process of crime and punishment doesn't really come into it.

Thirdly, as mentioned by other Posters, it doesn't work in other countries such as the USA which are some of the most violent in the world.

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy (Post 959051)

If prison is so cushy why doesn't everyone want to be in there. I don't see queues of people begging to be sent down for a life of luxury.

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy (Post 959051)

If prison is so cushy why doesn't everyone want to be in there. I don't see queues of people begging to be sent down for a life of luxury.

Originally Posted by mobertol (Post 959074)

I think you are right - it's too easy to think that all prisons are like hotels.

I have never been in one even to visit so I don't have first-hand experience. I certainly wouldn't want to end up in one and lose all my liberties and privacy.

I have a friend who worked as a councellor for people who self-harmed in prisons in N.Ireland and it sounded pretty grim from what she could tell me. There are also a good number of people who are driven to suicide in prison don't forget and they are not all mass-murderers.

I can understand the out-rage expressed at inmates getting board and lodgings effectively for free -surely some system of working for your upkeep could be introduced -I don't mean breaking rocks, of course, but something that would be useful and count as some form of pay-back to society.

Originally Posted by mobertol (Post 959074)

I think you are right - it's too easy to think that all prisons are like hotels.

I have never been in one even to visit so I don't have first-hand experience. I certainly wouldn't want to end up in one and lose all my liberties and privacy.

I have a friend who worked as a councellor for people who self-harmed in prisons in N.Ireland and it sounded pretty grim from what she could tell me. There are also a good number of people who are driven to suicide in prison don't forget and they are not all mass-murderers.

I can understand the out-rage expressed at inmates getting board and lodgings effectively for free -surely some system of working for your upkeep could be introduced -I don't mean breaking rocks, of course, but something that would be useful and count as some form of pay-back to society.

Originally Posted by mobertol (Post 959084)

Don't really know what it's like in prisons over here except to say there is over-crowding and a big problem with drugs/AIDS. This from TV reports not any personal experience or info from friends.

I suppose the Human Rights brigade have made life cushier for many in UK jails -stories heard of peoples rights to have children even when in for life etc. The SKY exposée earlier this year was pretty shocking - very lax security and lack of discipline. Perhaps they could do with a few of our old nuns from school to get them behaving!:D

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 959094)

If it wasn't so serious I too would find it funny

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 959082)

A couple of friends of mine are Magistrates, and they both went on a visit to Lancaster Farm, Young offenders institute. They both came to the conclusion that this was no deterrent what so ever, was like a 5 star hotel to some of them and the majority would rather be there than at home. This is significant with our penal system throughout, they are better treated than pensioners, thus the usual statement I can do the time stood on my head, now if we made the penal service a place where no body wants to return we'd be getting somewhere, I'm sure that criminals are not given the same consideration in Italy or anywhere else for that matter, because all the hand wringing woolly headed liberals live in good old Britain

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 958769)

Well it will never be brought back claytonx, it wouldn't be so bad if murderer WERE sent down for life, I can never understand any judge saying I sentence you to life in prison and you'll serve a minimum of, say, 15 years, utter nonsense, say what you like about the American justice system, they do make the punishment fit the crime, pity we done follow suit here

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 959187)

Don't expect this argument to have much effect on the hang 'em high, bring back the lash crowd on here ... they seem to be beyond reason. It doesn't seem to matter to them that in Britain, and Canada for that matter, crime rates and recidivism rates are dropping owing to policies focussing on education and rehabilitation, rather than on punishment and deterrant.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 959187)

In order to understand deterrance, or at least say something intelligent about it, one has to look at the rate of recidivism. Now, as the US jails are so much more punishment oriented than those in the UK, then one would expect fewer returnees. If UK jails are so cushy, one would think that petty criminals ... say small-time robbers ... would be lining up to get back in as the winter weather approaches. And, of course, the opposite would be true in the US. Strange to say, US recidivism rates are way higher than those in Britain.:confused: For the crime of robbery, for example, US recidivism rates are as high as 70%:eek: The much lower recidivism rate in the UK has been attributed, in many studies, to the British focus on rehabilitation rather than on punishment.

Don't expect this argument to have much effect on the hang 'em high, bring back the lash crowd on here ... they seem to be beyond reason. It doesn't seem to matter to them that in Britain, and Canada for that matter, crime rates and recidivism rates are dropping owing to policies focussing on education and rehabilitation, rather than on punishment and deterrant.

Someone mentioned in an earlier post that the UK had 5 murders over the holiday season (ok, Christmas;)) ... holy feces:eek: FIVE!!!!!!!!!!! In the Land of the Free, and the Home of the Electric Chair, this total reflects a slow wednesday in Detroit.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 959192)

Yes they may be tough on crime but they still have massive levels of crime including murder - so basically the death sentence doesn't deter crime. The death sentence only satisfies those who think that terminating someone's life punishes them - it only gives them their pain in a condensed dose, why not let them suffer in prison for life, surely ultimately that is more of a punishment.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 959194)

Don't you think that it's the influence of American culture that is influencing the gang crime in this country that is responsible for the increase in shootings and stabbings etc?

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 959194)

Don't you think that it's the influence of American culture that is influencing the gang crime in this country that is responsible for the increase in shootings and stabbings etc?

Originally Posted by susie123 (Post 959256)

You have a point there, and Eric you are talking a lot of sense. Please continue.

I would like to mention a case from personal experience and see what you think. I have visited five prisons in my time: Wormwood Scrubs, Dartmoor, Kingston (Portsmouth), Portland (Dorset) and Channings Wood (Devon) as a school friend of my partner was gaoled for life in the mid 1970s for stabbing his mother in law with whom he was having an affair at the time. He was still in prison in the 1990s so not all murderers get out after 10 or 12 years as has been suggested. Eventually he was sent to one of the prisons on the IOW, Parkhurst I think, where we did not visit him. He was hanged eventually... by his own hand.

Now I don't know what mental problems he had, as I didn't know him before he went to prison, but I'm sure they didn't improve while he was inside. I also don't know why he was inside for so long. I think most murderers must have some degree of instability to do what they do.

My question is - would it have been better to hang him on day 1 rather than try to sort him out? I don't agree with a life for a life but you can never tell whether someone will respond to rehabilitation attempts before they start.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 959248)

The influence comes from the yardie gangs from the caribbean, every been down peckham south London:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by susie123 (Post 959256)

My question is - would it have been better to hang him on day 1 rather than try to sort him out?

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 959247)

Oh ya great, keeping Ian Huntley behind bars is costing £1 million per year, he has every luxury he wants three square a day, the warders call him either Sir or Mr Huntley, life's a dream, now if the git was breaking rocks 10 hours a day and locked in his cell for the other 14 without any toys or TV on bread and water, then ya okay that would be fine, but in britain's butlins holiday camp prisons, punishment, don't make me laugh my lips are chapped

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 959248)

The influence comes from the yardie gangs from the caribbean, every been down peckham south London:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 959403)

I'm not saying they should have luxury's, I think they should take them away and make them think about what deeds they did to get them in there! Giving them TV and other luxury's just helps them take their mind off what they have done. However even with toys living in a cell would still make him think about what he'd done to some degree. But I don't know what medications they give him to help him cope - perhaps he is given tranqulizers on a daily basis or something?

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 959404)

Yardie gangs partly and also that links in with American Hip- Hop Gang culture - baggy jeans, puffa jackets and base-ball caps - they are all singing from the same rap sheet!

Originally Posted by walkinman221 (Post 959490)

In time, the convicted murderer will adjust to their incarceration and find within its limitations, time when they feel joy, times when they laugh, talk to their family, etc., but as the victim, no more are such opportunities available to them. Those that are pro death penalty feel it is society’s responsibility to step in and be the voice of the victim and determine what is a just punishment, for the victim not the criminal.

Think of the phrase itself, "life sentence." Does the victim get a "life sentence"? The victim is dead. To serve justice, that person who ended their life should have to pay with their own in order for the scale of justice to remain in balance.

Opponents of capital punishment say, capital punishment is barbaric and cruel and has no place in a civilized society. It denies an individual of due process by imposing irrevocable punishment on them and depriving them from ever benefiting from new technology that may provide later evidence of their innocence.
Murder in any form, by any person, shows a lack of respect for human life. For victims of murder, sparing the life of their killer is the truest form of justice that can be given to them. Opponents of the death penalty feel to kill as a way to "even out" the crime would only justify the act itself. This position is not taken out of sympathy to the convicted murderer but out of respect for his victim in demonstrating that all human life should be of value.My standing on what is a very emotive issue is that if there is no doubt capital punishment should be implemented, our justice system as it stands seems to be weighed very much in favour of the perpetrators of crime and not the victim.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 959485)

I've been giving some thought to this ... you posed the question earlier. I don't know if I can see a correspondence, but the American media is a powerful institution. (I almost said "American culture":rolleyes:, that's a nice oxymoron:D) I think one could argue that the American media is a weapon of mass destruction, insinuating itself into every part of the planet. The more-or-less glamorization of the gang culture makes it attractive to young people all over the world. The trivialization of crime ... it becomes a plot line ... and its sanitization and realistic presentation make it attractive. The fad of reality shows seems to be convincing people that what they see on TV is real, rather than merely realistic. In some ways the US media creates its own realities: they lose the war in Viet Nam, but they win the same war in Hollywood (with a little help from Stalone:rolleyes:) I don't believe it is the intention of the script writers to make crime attractive, but impressionable youth might see it that way. I don't believe that musicians mean to foment violence, but that seems to be what happens. Problem is, victims of movie portrayals of drive by shooting get up, grab a coffee, take their pay cheque and go home. In real life, they end up on a slab; and numerous lives are ruined in the process.

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 959941)

The Indiana Jones film shown last night had so much "harmless" violence in it that gives the wrong idea to kids - like people getting punched in the face repeatedly and no effect, that gives the wrong impression and must have an effect on how kids see violence ; obviously??? There was a time when kids didn't see violence on TV so readily and it really was all after 9pm - yes Hollywood is misleading. I saw a early episode of "Shameless" in which the climax was setting fire to a council house and the whole family celebrating - this is cartoon violence glamorised by Channel 4 and in the light of senseless violence in the riots last August - surely "Shameless" and the rest does influence this kind of behaviour. :cool: As well as all the Hollywood propaganda!!!

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 959941)

The Indiana Jones film shown last night had so much "harmless" violence in it that gives the wrong idea to kids - like people getting punched in the face repeatedly and no effect, that gives the wrong impression and must have an effect on how kids see violence ; obviously??? There was a time when kids didn't see violence on TV so readily and it really was all after 9pm - yes Hollywood is misleading. I saw a early episode of "Shameless" in which the climax was setting fire to a council house and the whole family celebrating - this is cartoon violence glamorised by Channel 4 and in the light of senseless violence in the riots last August - surely "Shameless" and the rest does influence this kind of behaviour. :cool: As well as all the Hollywood propaganda!!!

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 959995)

Well kestrelx i agree wholeheartedly, T.V. n Film, have much to answer fer,in my book, ah mean some of these knobheads think "Corry" n "Eastenders" are real,n "Rambo" n "Arnie" etc, well they are the men.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 960036)

If I lived in Wallford, think I'd contemplate a move:D

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 960067)

So...the two scummers who killed an innocent lad because of the colour of his skin have received minimum sentences of 15 years and 14 years 3 months. The judge said he couldn't give them longer because he was "constrained by Parliament".

THIS is why so many people clamour for a return to capital punishment. Because justice is so obviously not seen to be done in this country...and this is the fault of politicians of all parties who misrule us.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 960068)

Disgraceful, but hardly a shock, the minority of dogooders will always outweigh the majority wyn, simple fact.:( seems the judge had no choice,cos of their ages when offence was commited.

Originally Posted by walkinman221 (Post 959490)

In time, the convicted murderer will adjust to their incarceration and find within its limitations, time when they feel joy, times when they laugh, talk to their family, etc., but as the victim, no more are such opportunities available to them. Those that are pro death penalty feel it is society’s responsibility to step in and be the voice of the victim and determine what is a just punishment, for the victim not the criminal.

Think of the phrase itself, "life sentence." Does the victim get a "life sentence"? The victim is dead. To serve justice, that person who ended their life should have to pay with their own in order for the scale of justice to remain in balance.

Opponents of capital punishment say, capital punishment is barbaric and cruel and has no place in a civilized society. It denies an individual of due process by imposing irrevocable punishment on them and depriving them from ever benefiting from new technology that may provide later evidence of their innocence.
Murder in any form, by any person, shows a lack of respect for human life. For victims of murder, sparing the life of their killer is the truest form of justice that can be given to them. Opponents of the death penalty feel to kill as a way to "even out" the crime would only justify the act itself. This position is not taken out of sympathy to the convicted murderer but out of respect for his victim in demonstrating that all human life should be of value.My standing on what is a very emotive issue is that if there is no doubt capital punishment should be implemented, our justice system as it stands seems to be weighed very much in favour of the perpetrators of crime and not the victim.

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 960067)

So...the two scummers who killed an innocent lad because of the colour of his skin have received minimum sentences of 15 years and 14 years 3 months. The judge said he couldn't give them longer because he was "constrained by Parliament".

THIS is why so many people clamour for a return to capital punishment. Because justice is so obviously not seen to be done in this country...and this is the fault of politicians of all parties who misrule us.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 960093)

The judge should be allowed to give two life sentences....to run consecutively...and even that would not be long enough for them.
I hope that when these two do go to Jail, their lives are made miserable by the Afro carribean population in the nick.....I hope one of them grasses up the other chaps who were in this gang of lads, on the night that Stephen Lawrence was murdered too.

They thought they were home free.......no chance of being brought to justice.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 960144)

I'm sure that Knight and the Acourt boys are brickin' it right now.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 960196)

I would hope so, remember the cocky sods on tv the last time.