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-   -   Should Hyndburn be supporting Pakistan in Kashmir? (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/should-hyndburn-be-supporting-pakistan-in-kashmir-60844.html)

garinda 02-03-2012 10:27
Re: Should Hyndburn be supporting Pakistan in Kashmir?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gynn (Post 974325)
So faced with the thankless task of guiding the Council through a difficult situation, I think they did well.
Unlike a few short months ago.

When you were scathing, that the council were spending anytime discussing international matters.

If something's wrong in principle, it doesn't magically change overnight, in my opinion.

I'm glad I'm not as easily swayed as you.

Have you thought of becoming a councillor?

You'd probably find you fit in very well.

:rolleyes:

jaysay 02-03-2012 10:52
Re: Should Hyndburn be supporting Pakistan in Kashmir?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gynn (Post 974325)
The Council Constitution (believe it or not) does not preclude the Council from discussing issues “not conected to the running of HBC, in fact things not even conected with this country.“ Indeed, I remember sitting at countless Council meetings over the years where issues “not connected to the running of HBC“were raised, but which members felt warranted discussion.

Officers “have to concern themselves“ with implementing the Council Constitution, and I see nowhere in the constitution that would have allowed them to tell a councillor they couldn“t raise an issue which the councillor felt was important to the community.

So faced with the thankless task of guiding the Council through a difficult situation, I think they did well.
HBC was created to look after the interests of the people living within its boundaries, not what is happening to peoples relatives in another country, that is why we have the houses of Parliament and send a representative there to work on our behalf. The fact that a statement from HBC site atrocities in another country is, as far as I'm concerned and it seems most people taking part in this debate, not part of HBCs remit no matter how you wrap it up, the name of HBC is now being used for political posturing in another country, which is to my mind totally out of order, no matter how you try to placate it

Acrylic-bob 02-03-2012 11:37
Re: Should Hyndburn be supporting Pakistan in Kashmir?
 
I do take your point Gynn that on this occaision the officers of the council have probably made the best of a bad job in watering down the wording of the motion. But I would take issue a bit with what you said regarding the motives of the councillor who brought the motion in the first place, especially when you bear in mind Cllr Moss's assertion that he believed the motion to be blatantly "electioneering" on the part of Cllr Dad.

Is there nothing in the Constitution or regulations that prohibits such behaviour or that puts the onus on group leaders to make sure it does not occur? Because if there isn't, there should be.


.

garinda 02-03-2012 11:58
Re: Should Hyndburn be supporting Pakistan in Kashmir?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 974341)
I do take your point Gynn that on this occaision the officers of the council have probably made the best of a bad job in watering down the wording of the motion. But I would take issue a bit with what you said regarding the motives of the councillor who brought the motion in the first place, especially when you bear in mind Cllr Moss's assertion that he believed the motion to be blatantly "electioneering" on the part of Cllr Dad.

Is there nothing in the Constitution or regulations that prohibits such behaviour or that puts the onus on group leaders to make sure it does not occur? Because if there isn't, there should be.


.
'Dr Misfar Hassan the County Councillor who lobbied the Labour group for this resolution expressed gratitude to the Leader of the Labour group Mr Miles Parkinson, Councillor Munsif Dad Councillor Ciaran Wells Councillor M Ayub and all members of the Labour Group in the Hyndburn Council for supporting the resolution.'

'Dr Misfar also congratulated and thanked the Councillors of the Conservative group including Councillor Allah Dad County Councillor Muhammad Younis and member councillors of the conservative group for supporting the resolution.'

UK?s Hyndburn City Council expresses support to Kashmiris Right to Self determination

Sounds like they were all giddily excited, into being duped into being international propagandists for the Pakistani cause.

garinda 02-03-2012 12:02
Re: Should Hyndburn be supporting Pakistan in Kashmir?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 974348)
'Dr Misfar Hassan the County Councillor who lobbied the Labour group for this resolution expressed gratitude to the Leader of the Labour group Mr Miles Parkinson, Councillor Munsif Dad Councillor Ciaran Wells Councillor M Ayub and all members of the Labour Group in the Hyndburn Council for supporting the resolution.'

'Dr Misfar also congratulated and thanked the Councillors of the Conservative group including Councillor Allah Dad County Councillor Muhammad Younis and member councillors of the conservative group for supporting the resolution.'

UK?s Hyndburn City Council expresses support to Kashmiris Right to Self determination

Sounds like they were all giddily excited, into being duped into being international propagandists for the Pakistani cause.
These thanks were being reported worldwide, the day after the meeting at which H.B.C. voted to support the motion.

Weeks, and weeks before the watered down wording was made public.

:rolleyes:

cashman 02-03-2012 12:18
Re: Should Hyndburn be supporting Pakistan in Kashmir?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 974348)
'Dr Misfar Hassan the County Councillor who lobbied the Labour group for this resolution expressed gratitude to the Leader of the Labour group Mr Miles Parkinson, Councillor Munsif Dad Councillor Ciaran Wells Councillor M Ayub and all members of the Labour Group in the Hyndburn Council for supporting the resolution.'

'Dr Misfar also congratulated and thanked the Councillors of the Conservative group including Councillor Allah Dad County Councillor Muhammad Younis and member councillors of the conservative group for supporting the resolution.'

UK?s Hyndburn City Council expresses support to Kashmiris Right to Self determination

Sounds like they were all giddily excited, into being duped into being international propagandists for the Pakistani cause.
Seems the good doctor don't know Hyndburn aint a city.:rolleyes::hehetable

Acrylic-bob 02-03-2012 12:48
Re: Should Hyndburn be supporting Pakistan in Kashmir?
 
Ah! So now those implicated in prepapring the motion have names. And far from being sprung on them at the last minute, as we were originally told, this motion appears to have been the result of a certain amount of planning discussion and lobbying.

I have to ask, why then was the original motion couched in such appalling English?

Have the spending cuts at HBC reached such dreadful proportions that they cannot afford a spellchecker, much less a proofreader?

It was Cllr Moss's contention, the other day, that one of the reasons this motion was passed was because councillors decided to step back and look at the bigger picture, and in any case there were more important things for councillors to concern themselves with such as clean pavements and nice parks. Funny that, considering that the leader of the Labour group, Cllr Miles Parkinson, could find plenty of time to listen to the lobbying by CCllr Dr Hassan. He could also find plenty of time in his presumably tight schedule to include other councillors of the labour and conservative groups in the plotting.

The questions arise; Why all the obfuscation? Why can they not just be honest and admit what we now know to be the truth?

What happened to honesty and transparency?

The longer this goes on, and the more we find out, the more damaging this whole farrago becomes. And the closer calls for an official enquiry also come.


.

Less 02-03-2012 12:50
Well, I tell you what, when India as a gesture of Charity, try to sneak the aid money, (we as an impoverished Country gave to them), back to the U.K. I don't think Hyndburn need put out it's begging bowl, we won't get 'owt.


Is there a Councillor brave enough to put forward an amendment that states both sides are to be criticised for atrocities or else we as a town should keep our noses out?

Wrighty 02-03-2012 13:08
Re: Should Hyndburn be supporting Pakistan in Kashmir?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmonstanley (Post 974230)
I know this is off topic but can anyone tell me how I can post youtube videos like this instead of just a link ?

Ken Moss 02-03-2012 21:05
Re: Should Hyndburn be supporting Pakistan in Kashmir?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob (Post 974360)
Ah! So now those implicated in prepapring the motion have names. And far from being sprung on them at the last minute, as we were originally told, this motion appears to have been the result of a certain amount of planning discussion and lobbying.

I have to ask, why then was the original motion couched in such appalling English?

Have the spending cuts at HBC reached such dreadful proportions that they cannot afford a spellchecker, much less a proofreader?

It was Cllr Moss's contention, the other day, that one of the reasons this motion was passed was because councillors decided to step back and look at the bigger picture, and in any case there were more important things for councillors to concern themselves with such as clean pavements and nice parks. Funny that, considering that the leader of the Labour group, Cllr Miles Parkinson, could find plenty of time to listen to the lobbying by CCllr Dr Hassan. He could also find plenty of time in his presumably tight schedule to include other councillors of the labour and conservative groups in the plotting.

The questions arise; Why all the obfuscation? Why can they not just be honest and admit what we now know to be the truth?

What happened to honesty and transparency?

The longer this goes on, and the more we find out, the more damaging this whole farrago becomes. And the closer calls for an official enquiry also come.


.
Bob, it gives me no pleasure to say that this post is utter tripe.

Not one word of it is truth, it is simply a puerile attempt to twist things to suit your argument.

The final whisper of respect for you has now evaporated like a summer cloud.

gynn 02-03-2012 22:02
Re: Should Hyndburn be supporting Pakistan in Kashmir?
 
You must be thanking your lucky stars for the likes of acrylic bob and garinda, Councillor M.

In the week you have had to impose probably the most savage cuts in the history of HBC (£2.1million cuts in a budget of £12 million?), when every citizen of the borough had the opportunity to come to the scrutiny committee and have their say on the budget, what did you get?

By all accounts, not a single member of the public attending the scrutiny committee, and instead all you've had to deal with was a thoroughly nasty narrow minded debate on this website about an issue that everyone agrees has little impact on the day to day life of the average Hyndburn resident.

From an HBC point of view, the Kashmir thing was a diversion, nothing more. If it gave a few cheap headlines in the Punjabi Times, then so what? Todays papers are tomorrows chip paper.

garinda 02-03-2012 22:56
Re: Should Hyndburn be supporting Pakistan in Kashmir?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gynn (Post 974496)
that everyone agrees has little impact on the day to day life of the average Hyndburn resident.
...and the vast majority of people on this forum clearly think the council were wrong.

Wrong, that a local council wasted one minute of time with an international issue.

If you'd like to start your own little thread, about scrutiny committees, go right ahead.

This thread is about people being dismayed at what the councillors of Hyndburn have been duped into participating in.

An issue that has got sod all to do with the borough of Hyndburn.

As for Cllr. Moss having to deal with 'a thoroughly nasty narrow minded debate'.

Er...no he hasn't.

This is a totally independent, community forum, owned by Roy.

It has nothing at all to do with Hyndburn Borough Council.

If councillors choose to use this forum, they do so the same as every other member. Following the same rules, and regulations as everyone else.

I look forward to seeing your scrutiny committee thread.

In the meantime, this thread is about our local council, involving itself in issues thousands, and thousands of miles away from Hyndburn.

garinda 02-03-2012 23:01
Re: Should Hyndburn be supporting Pakistan in Kashmir?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 974476)
Bob, it gives me no pleasure to say that this post is utter tripe.

Not one word of it is truth, it is simply a puerile attempt to twist things to suit your argument.

The final whisper of respect for you has now evaporated like a summer cloud.

Come, come Kenneth.

Whatever you might be, we expected you to be a man of your word.

You quite clearly stated you'd said all there is to say on this issue.

Never say, what you can't do.

It looks bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Moss (Post 974159)
I've said all there is to say on this and we're just going round in circles so that certain members can prove a point. What that point is I don't know.

If you have any further questions, see my previous posts.

gynn 03-03-2012 06:16
Re: Should Hyndburn be supporting Pakistan in Kashmir?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 974513)

I look forward to seeing your scrutiny committee thread.
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...3-a-60586.html

Consider it done.....er, a month ago.

garinda 03-03-2012 06:41
Re: Should Hyndburn be supporting Pakistan in Kashmir?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gynn (Post 974533)
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...3-a-60586.html

Consider it done.....er, a month ago.
Er...yes.

That was thrilling.

Start another, about the lack of public interest at this week's scrutiny committee meeting.

Thanks for your input.

But this thread's subject is the public not wanting a local council to involve itself in international matters.

Try and make your next thread a little more dynamic, and more members might take an interest.

Good luck.


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