Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 1052400)

'The witch is dead' from the wizard of oz is download number 1 on Itunes

Originally Posted by gpick24 (Post 1052396)

Are you trying to tee up a Michael Jackson / Minors joke DP?

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 1052400)

'The witch is dead' from the wizard of oz is download number 1 on Itunes

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1052438)

That's just about your mentality

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1052438)

That's just about your mentality

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1052442)

Hey don't leave me out, its mine as well.:D

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 1052441)

I don't think much of yours either

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1052442)

Hey don't leave me out, its mine as well.:D

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1052451)

mind how you go;)

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1052448)

Can I stick a quick ditto in here somewhere?
:da:

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 1052453)

.....a threat?

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1052409)

margaret thatcher dies ding dong the witch is dead. - YouTube yeh mean this un?:D

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1052451)

this could be a conspiracy

Originally Posted by Restless (Post 1052478)

Nobody but MargaretR would be openly talking about it if it was a conspiracy ;)

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1052481)

Did Maggie die or was she killed off to prevent her reaching her peak?


Discuss, (but do it with a South Albanian accent)!

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1052493)

So after 11 years of misrule by this evil, wicked woman the British voters wised up and soon brought in a 'Government of the People'- New Labour.
They quickly set about, in the 13 short years they had, in undoing all the evil, wicked things she had done about----free school milk.

Is that it? No more?Was that all they could see of evil wickedness which had to be undone?


Doesn't that mean we had an evil wicked Labour Government which continued with all ( except free milk ) her evil wicked policies?

Or did Tony and Gordon sit in No 10 saying ' Hey, Maggie came up with some good ideas.
We wouldn't dare have done them but now she's started it let's run with it. No publicity, don't forget! Quietly.'

Perhaps voting Labour next time might be a good idea, they'll continue with all the evil, wicked things the ConDems are doing.

It's called Politics.

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1052493)

So after 11 years of misrule by this evil, wicked woman the British voters wised up and soon brought in a 'Government of the People'- New Labour.
They quickly set about, in the 13 short years they had, in undoing all the evil, wicked things she had done about----free school milk.

Is that it? No more?Was that all they could see of evil wickedness which had to be undone?


Doesn't that mean we had an evil wicked Labour Government which continued with all ( except free milk ) her evil wicked policies?

Or did Tony and Gordon sit in No 10 saying ' Hey, Maggie came up with some good ideas.
We wouldn't dare have done them but now she's started it let's run with it. No publicity, don't forget! Quietly.'

Perhaps voting Labour next time might be a good idea, they'll continue with all the evil, wicked things the ConDems are doing.

It's called Politics.

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1052513)

most of thatchers attitude towards mining was sheer spite and a personal battle that she wanted to win at any cost

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1052512)

As pits (that's "pits" as in coal mines, not "pits" as in Thatcherism was the pits;)) and coal mining seem to be cropping up a lot in this thread, I don't think it's too much of a wander to question why Britain now imports coal:confused: Can some informed right-wing economist explain this? "Carrying coals to Newcastle" comes to mind.:rolleyes: Seems like 40% of Uk's energy came from coal last winter. (I could post a link; but if anyone is interested, there's an article in the "Guardian"; I'm sure you are all capable of finding it.) Now, let me think about this:confused: I don't read of Saudi Arabia importing oil ... or Saskatchewan, wheat ... or Canada, uranium. So, why are you guys importing coal? Did you run out or something? Don't you have the expertise to mine the stuff? Is there nobody over there who wants to work in the mines?

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1052513)

it wasnt that long ago that government was looking into reopening coal mines although from what i remember thatcher did a bloody good job on caving them in

most of thatchers attitude towards mining was sheer spite and a personal battle that she wanted to win at any cost

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1052520)

About 40% of our coal is UK mined. Coal from abroad( mainly Russia) is cheaper. Many of our mines(MOG can probably say more) were 'deep mines' which produced high quality but expensive coal. Power stations didn't need the high quality anyway.
We have 300 years of reserves, based on the high usage of the 70's and 80's so heaven knows how long it would last at present rates of usage.
Why spend a fortune re-opening or starting new mines- the EU won't let us burn coal. Two coal fired power stations closed a couple of weeks ago, they'll all be gone soon. We have no means to replace their output so we could be facing power shortages in the next few years.
What a wicked waste.

Is it sensible?
No, it's politics.

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1052513)

it wasnt that long ago that government was looking into reopening coal mines although from what i remember thatcher did a bloody good job on caving them in

Originally Posted by yerself (Post 1052465)

No. 1 on jaysay's ipod:D:D

not sensibles, I'm in Love With Margaret Thatcher - YouTube

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1052499)

glenda jackson MP spoke in the house of commons and gave a brutal but honest speech about thatcher and thatcherism

Labours leader however has saluted her showing that he has less balls than glenda jackson

ps:

she cant be with elvis because shes dead and elvis is a taxi driver in las vegas

nah only kidding he died taking a poop

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1052522)

If you think about it, importing stuff that you have in abundance is never "cheaper" ...

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1052528)

I don't know so much and American yellow cab was seen trolling for fares round about the time her death was announced, Elvis songs could be heard on the stereo system:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1052518)

The demise of the pits rolled over from the Grunwick dispute of 1976 -78, yes violence and wrongdoing on both sides but the inescapable truth was the coal industry was terminal. The Tories learned from the lessons of Grunwick, Scargill never did.
Labour’s James Callaghan was so concerned that Scargill would try to escalate the dispute using thousands of flying pickets that he even asked the cabinet secretary to draw up a note reminding him of the lessons of the so-called battle of Saltley Gates in Birmingham, when flying mass pickets won a decisive victory during the 1972 miners' strike and helped to bring down Edward Heath's Conservative government.
The Tories learned from the lessons of Grunwick, Scargill never did.
Q: Where do you think the coal industry would be today without the intervention of the Thatcher years?

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1052529)

We are not talking about turnips here Eric, we are talking about a fossil fuel that presents many technological challenges in bringing it to the surface.

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1052523)

Your memory is faulty.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1052522)

If you think about it, importing stuff that you have in abundance is never "cheaper" ...

Originally Posted by davebtelford (Post 1052537)

Please explain.

Originally Posted by davebtelford (Post 1052537)

Please explain.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1052522)

If you think about it, importing stuff that you have in abundance is never "cheaper" ...

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1052544)

We used to make more cars than anywhere else but the USA-they were built by British owned companies. British Leyland was the UKs biggest exporter by far.
They were badly designed, very badly built, unreliable and not cheap. I should know, I had to run quite a lot of them. Also you could guarantee that at any time you looked one of the BL factories had a strike on.
Result- people with a choice bought foreign(Japanese mainly at first) which were the opposite of everything above.
The French bought French, the Italians Italian, the Germans German. We bought anything reliable- all imports. The home market collapsed along with exports.
We now export about a million cars a year but they're all built by foreign owned companies-they're good, but we had to get the Japanese to show us how to do it(canban etc) and to re-educate and re-train our workers who can now compete with anywhere in the world for quality and productivity. And they're happy bunnies doing it.
Not importing when you have plenty of your own product- not always so simple a decision.

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1052513)

....most of thatchers attitude towards mining was sheer spite and a personal battle that she wanted to win at any cost

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1052545)

Is it that you guys and your government have lost confidence in yourselves?

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1052522)

If you think about it, importing stuff that you have in abundance is never "cheaper" ...

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1052520)

About 40% of our coal is UK mined. Coal from abroad( mainly Russia) is cheaper. Many of our mines(MOG can probably say more) were 'deep mines' which produced high quality but expensive coal. Power stations didn't need the high quality anyway.
We have 300 years of reserves, based on the high usage of the 70's and 80's so heaven knows how long it would last at present rates of usage.
Why spend a fortune re-opening or starting new mines- the EU won't let us burn coal. Two coal fired power stations closed a couple of weeks ago, they'll all be gone soon. We have no means to replace their output so we could be facing power shortages in the next few years.
What a wicked waste.

Is it sensible?
No, it's politics.

Originally Posted by pallyman (Post 1052635)

yet Germany are building coal fired stations,our politicians are crazy.

Originally Posted by pallyman (Post 1052635)

yet Germany are building coal fired stations,our politicians are crazy.

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1052643)

One thought I've been toying with:-

I bet the Labour elite are SO grateful they are in opposition at this moment in time.

They would be in a no win situation, if they didn't want to appear spiteful they would probably have had to go for a full blown state funeral with it's immense expense.
Though if they did, they would then have to face the ire of their grass root members for being so hypocritical.

It no doubt would have proved a rather damning situation leading to their downfall at the next election, The irony of which would perhaps be yet another Tory Government in power.

Yep, I can see them all raising a glass to Maggie for going whilst they didn't have to make any decisions.
:D

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1052693)

Not new there Less when have they ever taken any major decisions, they always run away from um.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1052696)

Oh Yawn, a boring Tory standard reply to a bit of extra thinking!
:(

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1052698)

Don't have to think to reply to you Less :D

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1052703)

How fortunate for you. When thinking isn't your strong point, you can always substitute repeating the number "13";)

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1052698)

Don't have to think to reply to you Less :D

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1052714)

Something you and Cmonstanleeee have in common not thinking before replying.
:)

Seriously though, if you ever hope to retake and pass your 11th plus you will have to attempt exercising (or is that exorcising, knock, knock, is there anybody there?), your grey matter, rather than relying on your well thumbed copy of the Lady Bird book.

'How to give a bog standard Tory reply without having to put any effort into thinking!'

:D

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1052716)

if im remembering correctly tony blair was all in favour of a state funeral for thatcher which trggered a lengthy thread on here a few years back now.

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1052716)

if im remembering correctly tony blair was all in favour of a state funeral for thatcher which trggered a lengthy thread on here a few years back now.

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1052714)

Something you and Cmonstanleeee have in common not thinking before replying.
:)

Seriously though, if you ever hope to retake and pass your 11th plus you will have to attempt exercising (or is that exorcising, knock, knock, is there anybody there?), your grey matter, rather than relying on your well thumbed copy of the Lady Bird book.

'How to give a bog standard Tory reply without having to put any effort into thinking!'

:D

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1052726)

He probably just wanted to set a precedent so that he could be planted in the same way:rolleyes:

Maybe Thatcher should have opted for a private funeral, surrounded by her friends and loved ones ... and I have no doubt she has many. But no, she lived a controversial life; so, why not have one last kick at the can and head for the everlasting bonfire in a final blaze of divisiveness.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1052721)

Bog standard is enough for you Less you just wouldn't understand if I went into detail,


:D

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1052636)

And they're getting blasted for even nurturing the idea

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1052730)

A little general knowledge test so that folks can while away the hours as they wait for the BIG DAY: About whom was it said, "He thinks too much."

a) Jaysay b) Cassius c) Sly Stallone?

And now, I'm off back to my rut ... well, I will be as soon as the ground thaws out.:D

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1052738)

You have never gone into detail because it would confuse you long before you attempted to spell the number of words required to make more than an extremely simple and dogmatic watered down version of the Tory ideals that you seem to have learnt by rote.
If we ever got another and by another I mean a proper Tory on site he/she could run rings around the rest of us, because after years of practicing on you we've forgotten that there actually are Tories out there that can think for themselves and put forward a worthwhile argument.
Still we'll put up with you until that day arrives.
;)

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1052875)

Most Tories have more sense than trying to explain to luddites, as they always think they're right, when in fact they never been right always totally wrong:p:p:p:D

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1052878)

O.K. Jay so you are starting a new career rather late in life as an impersonator, just a bit of friendly advice, drop the bit where you try to imitate a thinking man it isn't entertaining and ruins everything else you attempt to do.
:(

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1052875)

Most Tories have more sense than trying to explain to luddites, as they always think they're right, when in fact they never been right always totally wrong:p:p:p:D

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1052890)

Just a minute are you attempting to say that I'm some sort of luddite?

I never went on strike during the 70's and 80's, strike is something that I consider does no-one a great deal of good.

However I didn't support a Government that went out of it's way to completely destroy a National Industry.
Somehow I think what Your Goddess did far outweighs anything any Luddite or Saboteur (the French equivalent), ever did!

You think that was something to be proud of?
:rofl38:

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1052892)

Sorry Less, but the Communist Trade Unions had already done irreperibile damage long before Thatcher came along, she made sure that from then on it was the Government running the country not the Unions, but that's something you don't want to hear:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 1052171)

The question may already have been asked on this thread .

But in case it hasn't , who were the people who forced Margaret Thatcher out of office ? :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 1052911)

Her own people wanted to get rid of her as she had become like Hitler

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 1052916)

Bit of over exaggeration don't you think Kes ? Okay she wasn't everyones cup of tea ..... but Hitler ? No I don't recall anything in her tenure about death camps, attempted extermination of several races or for that matter invasion, conquering & subjugation of other Countries peoples (trust me I know, insider information & all that due to being in the Army at that time ;) think I would've noticed) .

Lively debate is one thing & there's always going to be a huge gulf dividing the opinions of folks where ol' Mags is concerned, but pumping out the populist rhetoric of her being a "Nasty Nazi", is quite simply unrealistic.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1052917)

Oh i don't know Dave, she certainly tried to cover Hillsboro up, :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 1052921)

She's implicated in assisting in a cover up & if it's true that she was informed & knowingly kept information suppressed, then all the hounds of hell should be let loose to ascertain the facts.

But how often is it shown that some "Leaders" are detached from the reality of a situation & have absolutely no idea of what's going on around them & in their name ?

Originally Posted by kestrelx (Post 1052911)

Her own people wanted to get rid of her as she had become like Hitler - deluded and fanatical about policy like the Poll Tax - so they shoved her off the sinking ship!

Originally Posted by accyman (Post 1052932)

but it was too late they had sat and cowered in her shadow too long and the dammage was done

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 1052936)

Choose a Political party, any party you like & this will fit the bill somewhere in their history. The fear of losing their grasp on power no matter how tenuous is an amazingly motivating thing.

Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 1052957)

One of the things that's always forgotten when talking about all political parties, is who is behind the scenes, if anybody thinks that all decisions are taken by politicians then your living on cloud cuckoo land, has as been mentioned before, politicians don't always know what is going on in their name, and that's the case at every level of politics, even HBC. When politicians propose their spending, its civil servants who say whether it will fly or not and how much money is needed and where it comes from or its obtained, i.e. taxation borrowing, selling assets etc. some manage this better than others

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1052983)

Time you got worried then, we haven't heard much from AndrewB, maybe he's Tory middle Management now?

God Help You!

Originally Posted by Guinness (Post 1053042)

Dingles are...weird!!..but hilarious

Thatcher Supporters Back Rival Song - YouTube

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1051866)

And she fixed things by turning GB into a net importer of manufactured goods for the first time since the reign of Henry Vlll:confused:

Originally Posted by Restless (Post 1051888)

When I think of her I think of the Belgrano sinking documentary that I watched.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1051902)

Cashy, that is not the issue here....it is respect for the whole family who are grieving regardless of their past.
It isn't about what he has done or what he hasn't done, it is about the loss a family are grieving for.
They have lost a mother...and you only ever have one of those...and however bad they are....you still have lost.
I cannot explain it any better than that.
Her life has to be about more than the 11 years she was in office.......but, that is just how I see it.
My mother is almost the same age and I know how I would feel if she were to die tomorrow......perhaps some of you cannot empathise with this.

Originally Posted by Lucysgirl (Post 1053350)

Customs have certainly changed Margaret - at one time it used to be said that there's good and bad in everyone and the sign of respect to the family was to stop and acknowledge a cortege. This didn't happen in 1999 when the cortege of my late husband travelled to the cemetery which frankly I found quite upsetting - until one old man stopped, took off his hat and acknowledged in the old fashioned way. I must say that I found solace in his courteous action.

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1051938)

I thought this was one! What a sad outpouring of venom and bile.

This was the woman who persuaded Regan to talk to Gorbachev about ending MAD. She persuaded Gorbachev to talk to Regan about ending MAD. It worked. Lucky for us that's how much they respected her.
She did with the Falklands something no PM or opposition leader since would have had the guts to do.
She had the guts to tell the Union barons they didn't and wouldn't run the UK- Parliament would. When Scargill took her on she couldn't afford to lose, if she had we might as well dismissed Parliament forever. The price the miners paid was horrific and she went too far in changeing our energy policy after Scargill was beaten- that bordered on the vindictive.
When she got it right she was very right. When she got it wrong she could be very wrong. But she tried and she had conviction- she was bold, a leader of the calibre we haven't seen since.And we could certainly do with a bold leader with conviction now.
When she said something you knew she meant it and believed it, even if you violently disagreed with it. Can you say that of any of our politicians now?
Towards the end the power went to her head- power corrupts eventually. But she and her party were put in power for 11 years by the UK voters, 3 elections, so she was more popular in her time than you would think from reading some of the outpourings on this thread.
I didn't always agree with her but I sure as hell respected her as a person of commitment, drive and conviction. Rare qualities in politics these days.
A Leader- a dead one now. No need for the extremes of opinion being aired on here.