Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

According to channel 4 News, 53 year old Stephanie Bottrill committed suicide because she 'couldnt afford to live anymore. She faced having to find 20pounds a week to pay for the spare bedrooms left after her children moved out. Apparently, she had lived in the house for eighteen years whilst bringing up her children alone. My god, what has this country come to when the most vulnerable and least we'll off are targeted as fair game by the government. The lowest paid are treated as expendable garbage by the so called 'powers that be.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

despite it been made perfectly clear as to why she killed herself stating very clearly that she blamed the bedroom tax and the government and a breakdown on what she was expected to live on having to pay an extra £80 per month of her rent and having no previous mental health issues and been described as her been totally normal before she was lumbered with bedroom tax.....


some people still actually think the government and bedroom tax wernt teh reason why she killed herself

maybe if government wants single people to only have 1 bedroom they should build some 1 bedroom propperties because as far as i am aware tha majority of houses in accrington have two bedrooms or more and i doubt there are enough 1 bedroom propperties to house all the single people

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Always been the case, More so when this lot are in power.:(

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Maybe this will get moved to -
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...out-63879.html

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

if HBC were that against it they wouldnt impliment it ..

its easy to say your against it but to do something about it is another thing

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

how true infact the last time they were in power people were killing themsleves rather than go to jail for not been able to afford polltax

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I read about this earlier today. Here's the article: Balls warns of "despair" over welfare cuts after bedroom tax suicide

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

An excerpt from the article I linked to in my last post.

In a letter to her son, the woman, Stephanie Bottrill, wrote: "Don't blame yourself for me ending my life, it's my life, the only people to blame are the government, no one else."

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Thing is accyman we are viewed as "Low Class Scum" by these high ranking Tory's, n the working class that vote fer em are to dense to see it. or some even think they are better n they are.:rolleyes:

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

what some folk need to think of is that they could walk into work tomorrow and be told they are been made redundant and think how would they cope with the tory attack on the poorer folk.They could find themselves suddenly been one of the scumbag benefit scroungers they were criticising the previous week

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

And if that happens i will NOT laugh.:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38: Well only a little.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

"This lot" wouldn't be the arrogant, mean-spirited, heartless, over-privileged tory sonsabitches, would they? Maybe the Frogs had it right when they dealt with their aristocracy in the late 1700s. Pity the poor couldn't be persuaded to vote in larger numbers. Of course, it's hard to become politically motivated when you are worried about keeping a roof over your head and feeding your family.

Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Maybe I should start a new thread on this topic, but what benefits would you cut?

In 2004 the benefits bill was just over £70 billion a year. In 2013 its £120 billion. So this bill has risen by more than 50% against a falling tax take.

By any measure the UK Govt is bankrupt with debts exceeding £1trillion.

We don't have 50% more vulnerable people, don't have 50% more disabled people, don't have 50% more sick people, don't have 50% more people in need (recession causes hardship, but not 50% more).

So how does the govt cover the extra £50 billion? And should we be spending 50% more than in 2004? We've hit the credit card limit as a country, so what do you propose to cut?

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

How about your throat?:D

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I don't know-I am needing more detail to form a stance on this. I am sorry that someone lost her life .

However, nobody living by themselves requires a 3/4/5 bedroomed property. What would be ideal for her would be to be rehoused in a smaller property.

I blame the government for a lack of one bedroomed properties. (building more creating more cost, counteracting the saved!) And I blame them for how difficult it is to re house-to a certain extent.

I don't think bedroom tax is a bad idea generally though. The principle isn't. There should be more help for those who need to move in the aftermath of the change, sad cases like this is all you see in the media. Not the people who have now been able to move from cramped housing to a more suitable larger place once somebody who took up that space, has moved out.

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This is the kind of neoclassical economic bs that reduces the human condition to percentages and corporate bottom lines. And this "credit card limit" garbage! We are discussing a major world economy here, linked to other major economies, and you use the analogy of a maxed out credit card! Gimme a break. Folks posting on this topic know whats going on ... they don't need elementary lectures in economics, Reaganomics, and Thatcherism.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

thing is sugarmouse there arnt enough 1 bedroom properties to go round so people have no option but to take or stay in 2 bedroom properties

if there was enough 1 bedroom properties to go around and someone refused to move then maybe fair enough but there isnt

Also if you saw my post about twin valley and their 1 bedroom property a friend of mine recently moved into because of this bedroom tax would you think it fair you give up a clean 2 bedroom property that you have looked after and furnished to go live in a propperty that isnt fit to put a pig in because a lot of 1 bedroom properties are converted council houses in extreemly bad areas

Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Well Eric, they are all listed here http://www.usdebtclock.org for us just click the World debt clock tab.

Major world economy.....yeah, right. So you look at these numbers and think everything is well in the world do you? Do you really?

I look at the numbers and think "ponzi scheme"

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Times are hard enough these days without the government heaping more pressure on hard pressed folk. They seem to make a point of picking on the most vulnerable in society (and therefore the easiest targets). It's not that long ago that MP's were exposed helping themselves to taxpayers money ie the duck house that one MP thought was essential and another who insisted we pay for his moat to be cleaned. Absolute disgrace !

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

It's only "ponzi" when private citizens do it ... when governments do it, they give it another name or definition ... like, maybe "getting our house in order, so that we can, together, move in to the broad sunlit vistas of prosperity for all.";):D

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

just another not on bedroom tax

the council will expect a person to leave a 2 bedroom property at say £90pw with a housing assossiation and happily pay £100pw upwards for a 1 bedroom property for that person.

bedroom tax actually costs the council money in the long run

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

You're right, and I did mention the same. As usual they've done half the job.
I will read that post-not now though the internet is rubbish here at the moment (I'm abroad) .

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Suicide of Bedroom Tax victim Stephanie Bottrill: Grandmother blames government in tragic note - Mirror Online one that we know about,picking on the vulnerable is a tory trait.look at care in the community in the eighties.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

It appears from that article, or points toward it at least, that she had struggled with depression or something of the same for a while by now. I can't help but think that somebody in a different ,more pragmatic frame of mind would have asked their family/friends for help, knowing they would rather that than this. I've no doubt her family must have been noble or loving enough to offer her at least a part of the extra monies.It seems she was unable to deal with her issues, either through her own onus or her family's.

The government are to blame for not assisting finding her somewhere else to live,but they're not to blame for her death. There were other options available, and her choice to not take them.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

in my eyes the government caused her the final bit of stress that tipped her over the edge.Already stigmatised by government for been on benefit then subjected to bedroom tax alone could demoralise a sound of mind person.

the MPs will probbably gather round and insist this tradgedy shouldnt happen in a careing society but it is the government that has started the stigmitisation of the vlnerable,ill and unemployed and driven more than this one person beyond the point of despair.

teh country woud be in uproar if working people were charged extra council tax if they had a spare bedroom orif someone living alone in a house wasntgiven their %25 deduction for living alone if they had a spare bedroom but because its unemployed or ill people its acceptable

lets not forget many if not most people on the sick or unemployed have paid national insurance and tax which is a damn sight more than what a lot of folk who come through that channel tunnel have ever done

yet these ill and unemployed are cast as the scum of the country ?

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

What a load of tripe!

A large part of the UK suffer from depression and can cope with it until they are pushed beyond their personal tipping point, her family no doubt would rather she had asked them than take this 'final solution'.
She had managed to deal with her 'issues' until hit by this ill thought out attack on the Countries vulnerable.
The Government are to blame, because there aren't enough one bedroom properties to move all that are effected into, so all they are doing is taxing the poor and no doubt this woman will not be the last person driven to this extreme by them.
When are people such as you going to wake up and realise that this isn't an attack on scroungers, but an attack on the poor and the ill, will you only consider it to be wrong if it unfortunately happens to you, or when one of your loved ones gets so desperate that you lose them to this terribly cruel and uncaring shift in our societies moral fibre?





:mad:

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Its always terrible when someone commits suicide buts it's also terribly selfish. How must that wagon driver feel knowing he has killed someone?

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Both very valid points that show its a very poorly thought out idea. I am not saying it is completely wrong, but it is far to rigid with no allowances made for available properties in the area and cost of those properties.

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i agree and that waggon driver is also very lucky he wasnt killed.I know a few long distance drivers and one lad i know found himself inches away from death after a jumper went through his windscreen

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

A mate of mine was a fireman on the steam trains, he was approaching Haltwhistle and saw a young couple leaning on the crossing gate, just as the train neared the crossing the couple walked out and stood on the line with their arms around each other.
Two 20 year old people were instantly wiped out.
My mate never went on the railway again, he finished up labouring around the engine sheds. Many years later and he is still on medication for it.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

although it is a tradgedy when someone finds themselves in such despair that ending their life seems like their only option i do think those that inflict suffering on others by their choice are selfish.

there are many ways to kill your self with less fuss and if someone absolutely must make a statement with their death there are ways in doing so without destroying other peoples lives.

i may seem cold and callous i dont know but thats just how i feel about it

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I wholeheartedly agree, unfortunately lets be honest when driven to such extremes as taking your life, is the method used something that person has control over?

To be so desperate surely overpowers a persons thoughts of consequences to others?

Perhaps what's needed is a government leaflet advising the desperate on the least inconvenient method of gratifying suicidal tendencies to be issued with every document the benefits department issue announcing how they are going to make your life a living hell by reducing the payments you used to receive?

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I tend to agree accyman, then i think the heads have gone to make em do it in certain ways?:confused:

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

im just glad we dont have dignitas in the UK

This tory lot would give grants to anyone on benefit of any kind to go get themselves done in because a one off payment would be cheaper than making sure someone who is ill got treatment,care and support

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

You've most certainly put words in my keyboard there Less. I never implied she was scrounging-I don't think she was. I just think there were more factors here than 'The government did something so I killed myself'.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

The population cull is underway.

The Great Culling has begun: Will your genetic lineage survive?

"The word for this is, of course, eugenics. Adolf Hitler pursued the same philosophy: Improve the human race through genocide. Eliminate the weak, the ugly, the stupid. Fire up the incinerators, disarm the target race to be exterminated, and herd them into gas chambers or open pits.

Today's eugenicists are more subtle. They've learned, through experience, that openly gassing entire populations doesn't win over the hearts and minds of the public. So they've developed covert methods of accomplishing the same thing. These coverts methods include convincing people to eat genetically modified foods -- which promote infertility -- to drink fluoride, take vaccines, use synthetic chemicals, increase abortions and pursue other actions that either kill people outright or drastically reduce rates of reproduction."

There has been a plan for population reduction in force for decades.

It is blatently told to you on the Georgia Guidestones -
Georgia Guidestones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature."

We are seeing eugenics in action.

History of eugenics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"In the United Kingdom, eugenics never received significant state funding, but it was supported by many prominent figures of different political persuasions before World War I, including: Liberal economists William Beveridge and John Maynard Keynes; Fabian socialists such as Irish author George Bernard Shaw, H. G. Wells and Sidney Webb; and Conservatives such as the future Prime Minister Winston Churchill and Arthur Balfour. The influential economist John Maynard Keynes was a prominent supporter of Eugenics, serving as Director of the British Eugenics Society, and writing that eugenics is "the most important, significant and, I would add, genuine branch of sociology which exists".

Its emphasis was more upon social class, rather than race. Indeed, Francis Galton expressed these views during a lecture in 1901 in which he placed British society into groups. These groupings are shown in the figure and indicate the proportion of society falling into each group and their perceived genetic worth. Galton suggested that negative eugenics (i.e. an attempt to prevent them from bearing offspring) should be applied only to those in the lowest social group (the "Undesirables"), while positive eugenics applied to the higher classes. However, he appreciated the worth of the higher working classes to society and industry.

The 1913 Mental Deficiency Act proposed the mass segregation of the "feeble minded" from the rest of society. Sterilisation programmes were never legalised, although some were carried out in private upon the mentally ill by clinicians who were in favour of a more widespread eugenics plan. Indeed, those in support of eugenics shifted their lobbying of Parliament from enforced to voluntary sterilization, in the hope of achieving more legal recognition. But leave for the Labour Party Member of Parliament Major A. G. Church, to propose a Private Member's Bill in 1931, which would legalise the operation for voluntary sterilization, was rejected by 167 votes to 89. The limited popularity of eugenics in the UK was reflected by the fact that only two universities established courses in this field (University College London and Liverpool University). The Galton Institute, affiliated to UCL, was headed by Galton's protégé, Karl Pearson".

It isn't comfortable to realise that it may well be happening.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I've put nothing of the kind in, you like many others are happy in you're own comfortable little space and rather than consider how someone could be driven to such extremes salve your conscience by saying there must be more than what is being said.

Allow me to spell it out for you, every time you ignore the plight of someone so desperate as to be driven by hardship caused by this unfair tax, is a cruel act on your behalf, you claim to be an animal lover, would you force any living beast into a corner where cruelty makes them take their own life?
If not why allow it for people?

Do me a favour, don't answer, I can't stand how stupid you are.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Lol I am many things Less but you cannot insult me-I know myself well enough to either admit it, or know full well it isn't true.
You have said some pretty ridiculous things to me in the past as it is, the above is just another one. Put me on ignore if I get that much on your 'tit's '.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

No, I will continue to answer you until you begin to think.

I have the rest of my life to train you somehow I think you are like a dog I used to own, everyone said it was to stupid to learn, I taught IT with kindness, you I will treat with what you deserve.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

If you really think that's your duty, and really wish to do that,pm me , don't berate/namecall on an active thread-It's not on topic and is not good for other forum members to see.

I agree-was partly an influence on my opinion.

Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Plenty of idiots on here mouse, and Less is one of them. He and others that can't argue quickly resort to personal insults. As a former teacher he should know better. For my part I am pleased I didn't attend his IT class!

I'd like to know why people think the government owes them anything - house, living, just anything at all. Welfare state came in post war to provide for people in harsh circumstances, which was an honourable idea, but its long since morphed into something can take the **** out of as the Phillpot "family" perfectly demonstrated. I get that's an extreme case, but the fact that people can is shameful. Individual greed will always trump need.

What happened in Britain in every century prior to this one? For the previous 10,000 years we did just fine, and were a great nation for much of the latter part. There's plenty of excellent economic systems without a Welfare state, or handout mentality, like the one here in Singapore. Here they spend next to nothing on welfare, and almost no one looks to the govt for help nor is anyone jealous of the UK system, which they find laughable. Here, and in most of Asia, the concept of FAMILY is live and well. FAMILY look after you until such time as you no longer need help. The house next door to me has 4 generations of the same family living in it.

Meanwhile back in Blighty we now have a system where people leave home at 18, feel entitled to be housed by the government (for no reason other than they reached 18), have kids and often can't even stay in an immediate family unit - in fact if you don't your priority in the govt housing queue rises, long with your Govt support payments.

Time to completely reconsider the role of govt in society, instead of just moaning about it. Step back for a minute and read this thread again - people are actually outraged that the government isn't providing enough of the right type of housing !!!! I could add my previous point about our nation also being financially bankrupt and unable to support any such thing, but that's a wider discussion.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I am glad we don't have the squalid living conditions of the victorian era, and am glad that several generations don't live together in overcrowded dwellings.

Both were factors causing disease and early deaths.

Wages were low then, and (by the present cost of living) are low now, which puts home ownership beyond the reach of most people. The housing shortage causes high rents - anything rare has a high price.

The system you advocate ie, no state provision, has US citizens living in tent cities.

That couldn't happen here because all land is owned by somebody so there is nowhere to pitch it ! Even cardboard boxes in shop doorways are against the planning regulations and illegal.

You seem to wallow in nostalgia about the 'age of empire type' past - the only people who enjoyed it were the landed gentry.

I recall recently, a reporter decided to live like a homeless person so he could report it. He lasted a few days and died of hypothermia. Do they die of that in sunny Singapore?

:rolleyes:

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Inaccurate shots,
but they serve to prove you are prepared to talk without checking facts.

As for personal insults, isn't calling me an idiot just a touch personal? So what does that make you?

I know that so far as I'm concerned it made the propaganda nonsense after the above first paragraph unworthy of any thoughtful reply, but then that's you and you're big, 'I AM!'

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...IeC_NcIOw4LT5u

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Now don`t be like that. Less is OK so long as you agree with everything he says.:D

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Deary me, have I hurt you in the past?

Now you've found an allie?

Not to worry, I'll allow you this one after all your mate can make paragraphs you only make a one sentence comment, hardly a real contribution is it?
:D

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Hurt me? No
Found an ally? No, as I disagree with most of what he put.
And one sentence comments are the most I can manage during a busy day at work.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

If you and those like you stopped stealing time from working just to make inane posts on the internet perhaps our economy would be on the road to recovery?

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Gotta say Mr. Loadsamoney... that has got to be the wildest most inaccurate pile of nonsense I've ever read on this forum, maybe if you took your head out of Property Developers Weekly and read about the real hardship being caused to the many because of the greed of the few you may gain some insight.

Who knows you may even be able to create a cogent argument, instead of banging on about how great it was with cholera, whooping cough, 7 year old chimney sweeps, workhouses, cannon fodder, giving up your bride to the feudal lord on your wedding night, bubonic plague and the black death.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Nah then Guinness yeh will be joining the idiots saying that.:hehetable

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Although I agree with what you have said, forgive me if this sounds like a criticism, he just didn't deserve a reply.
:(

Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

:-) usual suspects all in rampant agreement with each other. Do you have independent opinions ?

I recon I provide a refreshing change, at least you can collectively moan about me instead of collectively moaning about the government.

Less, it was indeed a specific point made about you, much he same as the one you made to mouse. I just wondered if you can take criticism as well as you dish it out. I see the playground bully didn't like getting a back eye.......lol

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

However inane/ill judged/ludicrous/silly(please supply your own adjective to my list if you wish) anyone considers a post to be...it is what keeps a forum going.
If people stop posting, because they fear that their comment is going to be judged harshly(after all, we all have our own opinions....and we are adult enough to agree to disagree) then the forum will fold.
Now wouldn't that be a shame?

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

some are adult enough to agree to disagree but personally id rather settle disputes with water pistols loaded with beer at around 1pm ish in a pub with a decent beer garden :)

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

with your mouth open I presume :D.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

not if its loaded with fosters :)

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Oh you silly child, I'm not a playground bully, I pointed out that you are as bad as you claim I am, as for the rest of that stupid post...


...Did you really believe all that nonsense you followed it with?

I have wished you luck with your projects in the past, perhaps I should be backing someone that show a little more compassion for the little guy than you do?
Hmm, show compassion for the little guy, the sort of thing a real bully would walk away from isn't it?
Or would he just take the little guy down a blind alley and blame him for everything? Make sure he knows it's his fault and shove his hand up his back and force any money he needs out of him with a new but uncaring tax?
Any suggestions?
Perhaps you may consider the bedroom tax once you've stopped having fun with the single persons Council tax?
Nothing better than to make the innocent scream is there?

Me, a bully? I don't think so, I just don't like the way people are being forced to the wall and will continue to say so.

Have a good life Mr. (or would you prefer Bwana) Easton, but please don't let your superiority complex get in my way.

Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I don't wallow in nostalgia Margaret. Advances in medicine and technology obviously make comparison with previous periods not so relevant. My point was merely that the welfare state and public belief that the government owes them a house is in historic terms a new concept.

Historically people had family or nothing. Now it's family and state. This topic was started by the woman who killed herself because the government had given her a house that was too big, and wasn't giving her enough to live in it. Tragic yes, but probably not a situation that would happen in many other countries.

No one at all wanted to even talk about the 50% rise in the welfare bill since 2004, or where the extra £10 billion a year can come from. Not a single person said I think the money should be raised from this or that....... What we did see was the usual howls of greedy Tories, nasty government etc but nothing of actionable practical value.

Govt spending as was is unsustainable. The debt clocks http://usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html of pretty much everywhere (except china which I note is reducing) are spinning out of control, and unlike historic periods where this happened there is no inflation to erode the value of the debt.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Well in that case she doesn't have a leg to stand on does she?

If she's dead she doesn't need a house no matter how many bedrooms.

However I think you will find the thread was started by someone that is alive and it was about how a badly thought out attack on the poor has driven somebody to suicide.

Nothing you say can bring that life back or recompense her relatives for the loss of a loved one because she felt such a burden on both the family and the state.

How long before you agree with cattle trucks re-locating not into 1 bed flats but a few furnaces?

Still with modern technology we could generate a few watts of electricity. But no doubt you would then blame the victims and their carbon footprints for global warming?

Your type of attitude really does make me sick!

Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Ok Less, then lets hear how you propose to pay for the utopia you seek.

Margaret - found something we can agree on, which is that free speech is to the benefit of the forum. However, I recon far more people would contribute if they weren't shot to flames by Less and his team of playground bullies. I don't mind them at all, but as can be seen I have a thicker skin than most.

To your compassion point Less we can once again disagree. I've made over 50 loans to people in real need on http://www.kiva.org. These people have genuine needs. I prefer to help in this way because a collective loan enables the person to get going and then is repaid allowing you to resend the same sum to another person. I would recommend anyone on the forum to take a look at it. Interestingly every one of the 50+ loans I've made was repaid (my loss if it isn't) probably because these people need help but don't want charity/pity.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I am not after a Utopia, all I want is a fair shake, people paid in, people now find their money was wasted, because when they claim instead of getting it back they get a hard time.

There goes that broken record, 'playground bullies', people put forward their opinions, not everyone agrees and if they are like you then they will suffer criticism rather than praise.


Well, there you go again, you started with your very first post, 'Investing in Accrington', not so much praiseworthy, nor even worthy of praise, so much as 'hey look how good I am'!

You now tell us how you lend money 'to people in real need'.

Can I ask how do you define 'need'?

A woman so desperate she takes her own life? Or what?

Looking at what you've posted so far today she wasn't nor ever would be 'in real need', to you.

Allow me a few moments of brag, when I was wealthy enough being in a very well paid job my donations to the less fortunate until now were never broadcast and do you know whether they were for as little as 1p or umpteen thousand pounds, that's how they will remain, the people I assisted still don't know what I did, nor should it be spread around the WWW that would only be self gratification.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Not much economics here; just a massive ideological crock of horse manure ... along with a misunderstanding of the origins of the welfare state.

The welfare state was not "given", nor was it created by benevolent governments. One might argue that it was an inevitable result of universal suffrage, or that it was fought for ... possibly a combination of both. It should be paid for out of tax revenue. But with the exporting of well-paid jobs overseas ... still buying clothing made in Bangladesh are we? ... and the rich avoiding taxes by taking advantage of loopholes and overseas tax havens, tax revenue isn't what it should or could be.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

so theres been a %50 increase in the welfare bill and even more countries lined up to join the EU who will no doubt come in their droves to take full advantage of it as well as the NHS

shhh dont agree or you will be a racist

yes we probbably are the only country with such a good welfare system and free medical treatment but were not the only ones aware of this the whole bloody world knows it can turn up here with sod all and get it as well

like iv said before its no wonder things are stretched the welsh and scottish dont pay their way and neither does most of what comes through that bloody channel tunnel

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

That`s a bit of a wild assumption, just who is it i`m stealing from?

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

thats actually been proved to be a lie.as there has been an increase of about 15% increase in pensioners from the year 2004 yes they forgot to tell you pensions are included in the benefit bills .from 2009 till present it has rose 9% ids has been proved to be a liar like gove. a freedom of information act request found out his survey results of so called children who didnt know who winston churchill was, were from premier inns and uk gold ha ha.

Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Your work time.
Now, shut up or put up something of value to the thread, far better than you have tried to target me, generally though they have at least contributed to the various threads and the site not just taken isolated pot shots.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

im a unionist but accyman your off your rocker if you think scotland doesnt pay its way. the revenue from whiskey alone pays for scotland not counting the oil tax.that tax is paying for only 6 million people ya dafty:D:D:D

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

yeah but they dont pay for teh methodone and other drugs to make them better :D

was just having another dig at how welsh and scottish dont pay for prescriptions because both parties are scared of loosing votes if they made people pay for medicine like we do

people in england on sickness benefit still have to pay for prescriptions yet someone working full time on good wagesin wales dosnt pay for prescriptions.It just isnt right we should either all pay if we can or no one pays.The revenue from precriptions from scotland and wales wouldnt hurt the economy either or at least reduce the burden on the NHS.

PS:

please dont fall out with me im fragile today and couldnt handle name calling lmaO

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I`m sorry if you feel that i`m not entitled to defend myself when you accuse me of being a thief, but your assumptions are way off. My time is my time, and stolen from no-one

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

build him a flat and make up

preferably 1 bedroomed :D

Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I don't give a monkies about you, you wouldn't need to defend yourself if you ceased your random and off topic wanderings through the site in an attempt at poor humour.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Sorry Accyman, you`re way off also. If I were to build anything like that, it would probably fall down with a gentle breeze.:)

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

http://photobucket.com/images/sleeping%20smiley?page=1Just checked the medicine cupboard, and we have some Nytol in.:sleep8:http://media.photobucket.com/user/ha...eos&sort=1&o=0

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

well it was worth a shot :)

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

You may have lost your memory as well as your marbles Less. You accused me of having no compassion at all, that's the only reason that I brought up Kiva.org as it clearly invalidates your point. Now that I have though I would encourage people to look at that site.

Need is obvious when you see it. A great many of the people you'll see in Kiva are I would classify as people in need. I don't know enough about this ladies circumstances, but I'd feel responsible if my mother killed herself and sent me a note blaming a new tax.

I can't imagine you helping anyone. No evidence of any form of assistance coming from you in this forum (although in fairness to you I can't say I've delved into years worth of archives looking for something positive or encouraging that you may have ever said).

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

You remind me of one those magnanimous victorian benefactors who built and financed workhouses.
They were the wealthy industrialists in their day who caused the misery which they felt so self righteous about 'relieving', by paying low wages and charging high rents.

I think that I would have to be devoid of all pride and self respect to accept your 'benevolence'.

Re: Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I take a lil break and look at the drama I've missed.

1000's of posts referring to lifting pints in the railway. He's quite positive IMHO. Just get your bottom down the railway and meet him. Share the wealth and buy him a pint!

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

You really are silly aren't you?

Or are you just attacking me in an attempt to muddy the pool?

Do you remember the topic of this thread?

So far you have shown no sympathy for the poor woman that was driven by desperation to take her own life.

You accuse me of bullying and anyone else that disagrees with you of being in some form of gang, well it isn't a gang, it is a group of individuals that find you to be a rather nasty piece of work.

Continue in your feeble attempts to insult me if you wish, that will not remove the importance of this thread, which is that our society has become so mean that it is prepared to drive the vulnerable to extreme acts of personal harm with no clear indication of humanity.

P.S. The majority of the minorities that arrive on site in a similar manner to you usually, refer to 'gangs' as a clique, they like you, were wrong the clique is like yourself one big self centred joke.

P.P.S. A cue for you to attempt some form of insult from the phrase under my avator, 'Grand Wizard Of The Inner Clique'. Don't bother it's a tongue in cheek attack on minds like yours.:)

P.P.P.S No doubt we will have the usual thread wanders about whether it's clique or click, whichever way it's spelt you're welcome to join it anytime, you will then find you have a membership of one!
:D

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

well im certainly not startying any gang teh last bloke who said do you wanna be in my gang ended up in a right load of trouble

Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Margaret - I don't charge high rents, I undercut most landlords.

Why do I attack you Less? Because you attacked mouse in a way that I thought was unwarranted, out of order, and disrespectful to your former profession. You are so used to the way that you act that you believe it to be normal. But then you also believe in wizards......

I've no desire to be part of any clique, and while you believe I am in a minority of one, I receive plenty of support in my points against you via PM and email. That would not be the case if you were the nice person that you profess to be, and for which I can find no evidence of.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

There you go again, using inaccuracies, what exactly do you think my former profession might be?

So you have support through PM's and emails you claim?

Could I not claim the same?

I'm not answering your supporters real or otherwise, I'm answering you.

I really don't care if you don't find me a nice person, I do care for the people that get a raw deal just because they are being used as scapegoats for the Countries woes.

Surely single people on benefits have lost far less for this Country than say, bankers have?

Yet they are being targeted as the miracle cure for our economy.

Now, will you or won't you stop trying to use me to justify your existence and actually post something worthwhile to the site rather than try to get pointers from local folk about buildings you may or may not want to purchase?

I think it time this thread went back on track, perhaps it's time the mods did some gardening and remove this petty backbiting that you seem so keen to continue?



:)

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I read yesterday that the woman who walked in front of a lorry had been offered alternative housing and £2000 removal expenses. She was also receiving treatment for mental (depression) and physical problems.
Perhaps the intention to commit suicide had been there for some time. She obviously had no thoughts for the poor lorry driver or her family and friends.
It may well be that the reason for the suicide was the failure of the medical services and her family, or her existing state of mind that caused her to take this drastic action.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

There is no excuse for checking out in this way. Jumping in front of a train or lorry or bus is massively inconsiderate to the mess left behind and has serious long term impact on the innocent driver. The police have the unenviable task of scraping the remains out from under the lorry's wheels, and the drivers life if ruined. Selfish selfish selfish.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Lets try to put this in some form of perspective.

You live in a house, bricks, mortar and a roof. Over the years it becomes a home. It has memories. The pencil line that you drew on your daughters third birthday, the uneven shelf your husband put up before he died. The sooty fingerprints on the loft opening left dragging the Xmas tree and presents down for the last 20 years. The flourishing Rhodedendron bush bought from the garden centre that had two leaves, the garden shed he built etc..etc..etc..

I remember when I first moved into my present home, a god awful tree from next door took away light from some plants I'd put in and chucked leaves everywhere..it was an ugly, spindly tree. Offered the 70+ lady next door to cut it down, dig out the roots and remove it. 'Oh no, my daughter put that in when she was little, it was only a twig', she said. Only a dumb tree, I thought at the time, stupid woman.

When she died, before the next person moved in, I eradicated that tree.....30 years down the line, I have a tree in my garden, it's a tree my 5 year old daughter chose 20+ years ago. It's a weeping cherry, its ugly in winter, it's pretty for about 4 days every year then its an absolute nightmare....you will cut that down after my lifeless body shuffles off this mortal coil, and then I will haunt your sorry arse forever! I have a memory of when we bought it, planted it and watered it together.

I'm fortunate, the bedroom tax doesn't matter to me financially, I'm alright Jack.....but....how many people are out there in 'homes'..NOT..'houses'. Should these people give up their 'homes' for people who are nothing more than baby factory queue jumpers to use as 'houses'

This is such a poorly thought out tax..it's unbelievable that people think that it's fair

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

What do you think about benefits paying peoples mortgages on a house increasing in value every year (well hopefully these days). Its sort of a taxpayer funded nest egg

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Honestly.....hadn't thought about that angle.

Maybe that's what the government think tanks should be focusing on..how do we stop people making a profit from benefits...maybe the reason they don't is that it may encroach on..how do we stop people in westminster making a profit from sitting in parliament.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I thought the law had been changed several years ago could be wrong, under the impression they will only pay the interest on the mortgage now?

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I used to live next door but one to a family with no income except benefits who were looking into buying their council house. No deposit needed at the time, mortgage got approved. How can this be right? Basically, tax payers buying them a house.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Only the interest is provided for - was that way when I worked there, so it hasn't ever helped people buy houses.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Only the interest is paid, then after so long whoever provided the mortgage want the full payment or repossesed.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

This was about ten years ago, was that the case then? Because that`s not what they told us. And even if only interest was paid, if the value of the property increased, which it would have, they could sell it for a profit and that`s one less council house.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I worked in DHSS (DWP) from 1959 to 1994 -interest only applied for that time.

Ex council houses don't increase in value as much as others do, because owner/occupiers are concerned about 'location'.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I know people who got their rent paid on a council house for years then when the right to buy came in got a part time job to qualify for what i think was a government backed mortgage then quit their jobs or took action to ensure they lost their job and got payments to ensure they didnt loose the house.A few years later these houses got sold for many thousands proffit to mostly private landlords.

people shoudl never have been allowed to buy council houses but i dont blame people for doing so.Most if not all council houses come with front and back garden and these were been sold at a fraction of their worth hence the huge proffit when sold by the ex tennant

i dont buy they dont gain as much value because not all council houses were in crap areas some infact quite a lot werein nice areas and some in very desireable areas.

i think my mates dad paid 12 grand for a 3 bed semi detached in ossy near whitebirk road with fron,side and rear gardens when a 2 bed terrace on devonshire street with no gardens was £28 grand

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

At the same time, we were offered ours at £15,000. I`m pretty sure it will be worth a hell of a lot more now.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

i shoudl add he paid his rent but others on the avenue didnt it was the tax payers money

most of them sold pretty quick for a proffit and drank it away down teh pub then got a rented house and got the rent paid for again

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

just looked on zoopla, the council house 5 doors up from the house I could have bought for £15,000, sold for £60,000 last year

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

1 government was stupid for selling them and 1 government was stupid for speeding up teh process by introducing self declaration mortgages were you didnt really need to prove you had the ability to pay a mortgage just prommise that you could

notice how most of these dodgy looking mortage shops are shut these days

thats because %100 and self declaration mortgages have gone out the window and that bank we bailed out that gave mortgages on peoples word

northern rock i think it was called

a 5 year old could get a mortgage with them it was gobsmacking how easy it was

you got a high interest morthage with northern rock with no proof of ability to pay then transfer your mortgage to a more reputable bank after a year

haha reputable lol

i had a few dodgy methods explained to me when i was after a mortgage and making enquiries

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

I know a few people who were married, then got divorced and are still living in their house and paying their mortgage off. They are claiming benefits as they are working part time to keep their hours under whatever it has to be. Without the benefits being paid to them they would not be able to pay the mortgage still and would have to sell the house and move elsewhere. Ok they would end up in rented paid by some other benefit but as it stands they are able to pay off their mortgage because of working family tax credits or whatever. That house is increasing in value being paid for by benefits.

Does that make sense, I think I confused myself?

Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

Northern Rock did 125% loan to value mortgages, so no deposit required and they'll give you 25% of what the house was worth on top. Much of that lending is now being paid by the taxpayer.

Re: Bedroom tax - targeting the poorest.
 

these are the mortgages the goverment say they are going write off:confused: the 100% mortgages are back.