Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Well Mayor Boris Johnson has said in the light of this terrible incident that the government should revive the bill in which all our e-mails and phone calls will have to be kept on record for 12months by the service providers.

BBC News - Woolwich: Boris Johnson finds Data Bill 'compelling'

As for this being set up - apparently it was mentioned on the news that one of these attackers was asked by MI5 to be a spy 6 months ago - so they knew about him!

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/mi5-tried-to-recruit-suspect

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

I saw this on Thursday ... and went back today to take the picky ... I couldn't take it Thursday I was in a car being brought back home ..luckily it wasn't an ambulance .:rolleyes: Anyway I think whoever did this it was a nice idea ...

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

No i'm saying quite clearly that anyone who they have irrefutable evidence about, born hear or otherwise, should be kicked out to the flag they preach under, P.D.Q. if yeh dont like that i don't give a toss, its my opinion.:rolleyes: If they wanna preach jihad n hatred do so in the land there loyalties lie.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Roger that too MrC ;)

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

When, as a rational person, you try to explain to yourself why this man committed this atrocious act of violence, you can easily conclude that he must have a mental disorder.

Most people aren't aware of the extremes that security services go to in the name of 'anti terrorism'. It is not beyond the realms of possibility that this man was 'got at' by our own MI5, and their attempts to recruit him had the opposite effect of that intended - they actually drove him over the edge of all reason.

The personality change seems to have happened following MI5 'interrogation' in Kenya.
When he refused to co-operate with them he made himself vulnerable because of what he knew. How convenient that he should ensure his own ruin - as any good Manchurian cadidate would.

This may seem an extreme view, but it cannot be overlooked as a possibe background to the event.

"Nusaybah also said he thought Adebolajo had undergone a 'change' following his detention by security forces on the trip.
He said Adebolajo suggested he had been physically and sexually abused while he was interrogated in the African country, and after this he became withdrawn and 'less talkative - he wasn't his usual bubbly self."

Read more: Woolwich murder suspect 'was offered job with MI5 six months ago', claims childhood friend | Mail Online

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Its also not beyond the impossible, that his mate who is probably of the same beliefs, would say that.;) two sides too everything.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

I agree - there are always two sides to every event - we may never know which is correct - especially when one version is the only one given any 'credibility'.

Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Margaret - I think it's easy to dismiss as nonesense on the balance of evidence. I submit the 300,000 men woman and children washed off the surface of the earth a few years back by the Aceh tsunami as all the evidence I need to submit for a solid conviction.

The only comeback I've ever heard on that was "they've gone to a better place".....

I prefer the saying that "on the 8th day god created a talking white tiger and forgot all about us"

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

I have the advantage of not being a 'god botherer' and, having detached myself from the rat race of everyday life, I take a detached view uninhibited by the emotion surrounding the event.

I just observe and comment when I think that a different view needs airing.

I do find your post rather as a red herring - this was no natural disaster - it was contrived by man or men.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Can't really say that? much to come out yet perhaps? investigation must be in its infancy at this point, whilst the media n governments may tell us stuff,many have minds of our own n weigh up fer themselves. no need fer media or anyone else to attempt, it don't work that good wi me.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

and me too

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

If as you say you've detached yourself from the rat race how the hell can you make a valid comment:idunno: its obvious you watch the rat race from your rose coloured specs, when you want to of course:rolleyes:

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Your certainly right about the media, they are still peddling it for all its worth, I think its the Star that have printed the photos again this morning, the one with the guy holding the knife before he's shot, why oh why do they need to do this, its just playing into the hands of this scum, but lets face it the first rule of journalism is why let the truth get in the way of a good story, things like this prove it

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

That would be Hannah Arendt, "Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil." I don't really agree with your "theme", but what the heck.;):D Problem with her thesis is that allows for the "I was only following orders" excuse. Other theses suggest that even ordinary people can be evil when they fall for an evil ideology ... you know, Nazism, racism, Stalinism, and certain interpretations of Islam, which, if they are "minority", they are a sizeable one, strong in Pakistan (a failed state if ever there was one) in particular. Daniel Goldhagen's "Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust" is a fascinating read, and it suggests other ways of looking at the realtionship between militant Islam and "ordinary" muslims.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Fair enough Eric the book was written 50 years ago but it does link the strange relationship between idiocy and evil, those cases I cited demonstrating just that, to me anyway.
The Israelis set Eichmann up in a show trial hoping to show him as a monster and despite all the efforts of the prosecution everybody could see the man was not a monster as Arendt says " It was difficult not to suspect he was a clown" He came across as a near robotic creation of Nazi bureaucracy speaking in jargon..
Anders Brevik some argued should not be given a platform and the publicity he craved in order to propagate his ethnic purity fantasies. Some thought a dark creed would emerge which if allowed into the public arena would inspire others.
Quite the reverse he came across as a complete fantasist. During his trial he stood exposed as a pitiful and deluded character whose political opinions weren't worth spit. In short he was a murder who longed to be categorised as a terrorist.

That was my theme Eric writ badly maybe, this is what these two Woolwich murderers are. The mad mullahs seekout these simpletons.
I don't know whether these two can explain what they meant in their video rants. I'd like them to try to explain. It would expose the hollowness of their actions so that an act of senselesss murder can be called just what it is plain and simple.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

It is a fascinating subject though. When I think of "the banality of evil", I think of how difficult it is to accept that ordinary, boring, "normal" folks can do evil things ... and I don't believe that anyone can come to terms with the Holocaust without accepting that, from time to time, there is evil in the world.

I think it's wrong to think of evil as something that can only be associated with monsters and extremists. The real threat from Islam comes not with the suicide bombers and the nutbar mullahs, but with the religion itself. The threat is from the muslim communities that are growing in size and number in all the western democracies. They are fifth columns because they don't ... or won't ... grasp a fundamental democratic concept: the separation of church and state. While the West foucuses on the Taliban, al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and a host of others, they are neglecting to protect their own fundamental institutions and beliefs from a threat they are nurturing within their own countries.

Whatever ... but it is nice that I can make these comments without the fear of being arrested for insulting the prophet and blasphemy, both of which, I believe, carry the death penalty in certain parts of the muslim world.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

just read that a french soldier ha sbeen stabbed in the neck in france

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

It appears the thing now for soldiers is be very vigilant at all times

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

remember how muslims protest at our troops coming home and spitting at them.Well another thing they do is take pictures of our returning soldiers shouting that they will come find them and kill them.I cant help but wonder if attacking soldiers in their own country is a variation of this threat.Its a lot easier to kill and make an example of a soldier when he is unaware or alone in his own country than out on the battlefield.

maybe now government wont tollerate this abhorant behaviour towards our returning troops because quite clearly they are tagets even at home and threats and intimidation should not be tolerated just because it may offend a few people if they are made to pay for their what i would describe as treason to our country

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

I remember this happening, in I think Luton a few years ago, with the police sat there on their hands doing precisely nothing, no doubt scared of the race card, but this goes deep than race, Islam ain't a race to start with, If a bunch of blokes shoot outside a Mosque and started spiting on people leaving their feet wouldn't touch. Another thing that really irks me is that people such as Anjem Choudary (who is banned from Germany)but is welcomed on every TV Channel in Britain and hasn't been arrested nor have any other Preachers of Hate, how long did Captain Hook roam the streets before being jailed, there's a difference between tolerance and cow towing to this scum, its time Cameron grew a set of balls and put these peddlers of hate where they should be either back where they came from, together with their broods or if they were born here locked up where they can do no harm, obviously just telling these nut jobs we're watching you ain't working:mad:

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

I rest my case.
Maybe, just maybe, if the press had not made such a feast of it, then this would not have happened.

During wartime there were news blackouts, and while I do not advocate such a response, I do think that the news media should be prohibited from glorifying the incidents....and certainly no pictures.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

maybe its an organised attack and theres more to come around bases around the world that have soldiers whos countries have helped in afghanistan

it is possible that people dont try slitting a soldiers throat in france just because a few pictures of it happening in the UK were published

kevin bigley got his head cut off and it was very public infact teh video of it was on youtube for the world to see but there wasnt a spree of beheadings or copycats

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

The Kevin Bigley thing was totally different. He wasn't, to my knowledge, a serving soldier.

These are soldiers on their home soil....and this must count as guerilla warfare.

Maybe this is a new phase in the terror campaign.... a different approach.
It still should not be reported in the media in the sensationalist way it has been....all the media have done the same over kill job on it...and it isn't necessary.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

your saying advertising butchery makes other people run out and do it if advertised you didnt say only soldiers

kevin bigleys murder was very much publicised both on the internet and in the news.

they are not totally different they were both carried out in the name of allah and they were both british plus both of them were helping the people that wanted them dead in one way or another infact theres more similarities than not

its no good resting your case then changing your point to suit

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

I haven't changed my point to suit anything.
The French incident was a soldier on his home soil, the recent events in London were on a serving soldier.
Yes all of the atrocities, including the Kevin Bigley incident were done in the name of the muslim religion, but there the similarity ends.
And nowhere did I say that advertising butchery makes other people run out and do the same thing...so please do not put words in my mouth that I didn't say.

My comments were that other (radicalised/extremist/fanatical) muslim men would feel that this was a good way to hit targets who were not expecting it.....that they could inflict terrorism into the heart of the UK....and the media give them all the publicity that they crave.
Do not give them the oxygen of publicity.......the propaganda of their cause is nourished by it.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

so what would you have the news do

put a complete block on these incidents so we can live in ignorance and unaware of the danger amongst us ?

At least now the world knows what filthy animals these people are and how big a threat they are.Government wont do a damn thing if people dont want change and people wont want change if they think everything is fine.

Also these animals and them like them know that we wont stand for it by all the floods of support for this soldier that are everywhere from the papers to the internet

the only people not supporting this soldier are the polititions who are busy covering their arses

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

MI5's dubious methods are being exposed

Exclusive: How MI5 blackmails British Muslims - Home News - UK - The Independent

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

No, Accyman. You can't have read my posts very well. I have said what I would do....and quite clearly.

There needs to be some responsibility taken by the communities that house and nurture these radical men...the universities are hotbeds of radicalisation and they also should be the targets.
Some imams encourage this radicalisation of disaffected muslim men. If the religion of Islam is really a religion of peace, then the congregations of the mosques where imams encourage terrorism should stand against them....but I won't hold my breath on that one.

The oxygen of publicity is exactly what the terrorists want. Report incidents in a clinical fashion.....no media frenzy, no pictures and once reported leave the story alone unless there is something really new that will add to the understanding.

The hardest enemy to defeat is the one which walks in our midst...think Trojan Horse, and then you will know what I mean.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

A very good article:rolleyes:
Do you not find it strange that the six men all work together? Could it be that they all worship at the same mosque and have been subjected to some brainwashing by one of the other attendees - a "Mad Mullah" perhaps.
How often does one newspaper get a genuine exclusive story of this magnitude - the subjects usually hawk the stories around to get the best price so other nwspapers are aware that there is a big "exclusive story" going the rounds.
Has their MP raised the subject - I think he is Labour and would therefore have gloried in being able to expose the perfidious Tory Government.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Where does it say they all work together?:confused: it says they are all community workers thats all i can see, n sod all to do wi politics, commonsense tells me if it has happened community workers are good targets.:rolleyes:

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

another stabbing a few hundred yards from where the soldier was murdered and already authorities are running around trying to assure people the two incidents arnt related

just a coincidence then i suppose :rolleyes:

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

It says they all work for Kentish Town Community Organisation and come from Camden/North London.

MI5 is certainly concentrating a lot of attention on this organisation. I wonder why?

MP- Frank Dobson, not a man to hold back but his response is quite mild.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

You beat me to it Gordon. I didn't think it was hidden in the small print.;)

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

This guy talks a lot of sense. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151925108569535
And I do think it's important for them to be vocal at this time.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

For those of you who don't do facebook:
Talk on Woolwich Terror Attack What should they do..Iman Ajmal Masroor at SKY News - YouTube

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Whilst its good the Muslim Council speaks out, to say these savages are all "Low life scum" whist is the case in some instances, some of these savages have been to Uni/College etc n its not the case.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

That's how some of these savages get into this country by student Visa:mad:

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

So an imam speaks out and says what should be said...that if you do not like Britain(the country you live in, and in many cases pays for your daily life) then leave......it is right what this man says, but more of these men with influence should be standidng up and saying the same thing.
And Imams who suspect that members of their community are plotting terrorist attacks should be handing these men of their community in to the authorities........and same goes for the grooming of white children.

There is an undercurrent of distrust of all muslims...and while I know this is illogical, until more of the muslim community show that they align themselves to being British first and muslim second, it will remain so.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Many thanks for that. I have an allergy to facebook...even typing the word makes me jittery.

Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

In fairness though Margaret it wouldn't surprise me if you had an aversion to unfiltered air, and purified it in your house like the late Mr Jackson..

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

It would surprise me,if yeh got summat right fer once,:rolleyes: Think yer got the wrong Margaret yon.:rolleyes:

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

iv made that mistake before lol

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Dear Mr Victorian slavemaster,

It is me that has air filter machines - so what.
If you struggled to breathe, you might do the same.

Your capacity to criticise/denegrate the lifestyle of others amazes me.
How much more crudely insensitive can you get - I wait with baited breath (pun intended)

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

It also would not surprise me,if the ignorant get don't back peddle later.:rolleyes:

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Yes, you definitely have the wrong Margaret(no offence to you MargaretR - I know you do what you have to, to make your life as comfortable as possible)....we have a smelly hound at our house and could do with an air purifier at times....and sometimes the other half contributes to the smelly ambience(beans - mushy peas).

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

I want him to cycle backwards to Singapore, where he can exercise his role as a superior advisor to the colonial indigenous population which will be accepted as the normal behaviour of an imperialist.


Wow - I have a case of D in G, haven't I :D

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

imperialist? i have another name, but the swear checker prevents me.:D

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

what this man has said is very good to hear but is it reflected in what we see in our own town alone?

its all well dressing up a muslim in western stlye clothing and pushing him out infront of a camera to say the things that we want to hear but my opinion that the majority of islam in the uk dosnt want to get along side by side with everyone else has not been altered.I say within the uk because other countries such as turkey and india have muslims that dont behave anything like muslims do in the uk.

besides to me he appeared and sounded to be indian muslim.I have internet friends on another forum who are indian muslim and tehir whole attitude is different to that of pakistani muslims.Maybe thats why they have nukes pointing at each other i dont know but there is a definate attitude difference towards western society as in india embraces it and pakistan not so much

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Call me cynical, but those are my thoughts exactly.

If there was generalised abhorrence for this act in the muslim community, it didn't show.
I felt like those who were trotted out to give us soulful condemnation, were just paying lip service...like it was what was expected of them(or they were doing as they were told)...but really they had other thoughts in their head.
See...I said I was a cynical old bird.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

I have a filtration machine which takes all the impurities out and feeds me just the good tackle 24/7 through nasal cannulas:rolleyes:

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

It certainly didn't show to our window cleaner, or so he told me.:(

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

The Muslim Council used to peddle out a guy called Bungaswola for a long time, think he must have been on a retainer from the BBC he was on nearly every week:rolleyes:

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

im not saying this guy for definate dosnt mean what he is saying i just dont feel what he says he feels is refected in muslim communities

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

When anybody from the MCB comes on telly they're only playing lip service, but there's a fact that nobody can deny not all Muslims are terrorist, but today most terrorist are Muslim;)

Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

I'm not slaving anyone, just gainfully employing the townsfolk.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

I've seen the jobless figures for the borough so I don't think you're employing 'the' townsfolk, only some of them!
:)

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Ok ... you are cynical;):D

But I'm reading lots in the British press about integrating the muslim community into the wider British community, a kinda touchy feely reaching out to them:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38: ... particularly from those who are opposing your Home Secretary's plans to get tougher on muslims, esp. those who use the internet to peddle hate. I've heard lots of criticism of her; but I think this time that she is on the right track. I believe that C of E Brits are willing to compromise, as are the Baptists, Catholics, Weslyans, Methodists, the atheists, the agnostics, and, yes, probably even the Jews. The ones who ain't willing to budge an inch are .... let's have a drum roll:theband: ... the muslims. You know followers of that medieval belief system that hasn't changed with the times. If only they would make a little move, you know, something like recognizing that women are human:rolleyes: ... but no, with muslims, anything to do with their religion is non-negotiable. Christians have given up a whole bunch of things: not too many crusades going on any more; the Inquisition isn't too busy these days; witches aren't being burned at the stake all that often; they are prepared to believe that Earth is an oblate spheroid ... all kinds of stuff.

By the way, reading this could get arrested in several muslim countries.:D

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Eric you are right...all the tolerance traffic goes in one direction.

People who come here and settle should be prepared to alter their lives(if only a little) to fit in...they should be prepared to integrate....or at the very least adopt a live and let live attitude.

The muslims will only be happy when every last one of us is subject to sharia law, and we bend the knee towards mecca(the place - not the bingo hall).

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

In essence conceivably, but a smidgeon more flourish & suitably more impressive words. ;)

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

even dubai that nasty little place where they like to enforce sharia law is been more tolerant of western culture.Mainly because of the millions and millions of ££££ westerners bring through that place but that would just be synical

having a reputation for been a very strict place to be i was surprised when a friend returned from dubai to learn that in certain places you can now order bacon and eat it without fear of arrest

they have to have a licence to serve bacon and it is american style bacon so not the best but its a start

mind you if your baby is conceived out of wedlock regardless or marital status at time of birth you can face prison which is why someone i know of who works out there flew home before the baby was born becasue the hospital woud have reported her

but you can get bacon

go islam your nearly getting it right lol

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Thats the sole pupose of all this so called imigration, they have infiltrated all the civilised country's in the world, and gaining more & more power politically, hiding behind the racist card. it may take some years, but they will achieve it if they are not stopped.
Then the infidel will be wiped out on a scale that will make Hitler look mild.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Not in my book they aren't, they come to live here, okay practice your religious beliefs, but don't try to stuff them down everybody else's throats, if they don't like what they see here then there's always the M65 on the way to Manchester Airport, you have our permission to sod of home:(

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Most terrorists purport to be Muslim Jay a subtle distinction I have to make. There is a sharp distinction between that and the virus of "Islamism" with it's sinister political agendas which promote a sense of grievance and victimhood among what is a minority of Muslims.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

a Muslims a Muslim which ever way you look at it or define it;)

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Yeah, too right, and they can take those bloody Mormons with them as well, wandering the streets saying good morning to people in a cheery and enthusiastic manner!

Don't they know were they are?

When in the UK be miserable and ignore everyone you meet like the rest of us!

We don't need your misplaced optimism here.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/th...m-with-gun.gifhttp://www.picturesof.net/_images/A_...177-087009.jpg

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

mmm Less, imagine if J H Christ was beamed down into Accrington for the 2nd coming tomorrow. There would be posts on here "toute suite" saying " I'm not having some immigrant of middle eastern origin telling me what to do" and such like. ;)

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

2nd coming on a weds?:eek: Its half day closing.:rolleyes:

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Not in the pubs Ol.... I am sure JC mk2 would take a leaf out of the Sally Armies book and get into those well attended churches ;)

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Na Mr. D. he'd be after those pesky tax collectors round the local church:D

Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

Not much chance of that DtotheP. Bear in mind that he was a handsome white guy with long hair, the likes of which you simply don't get in the Middle East. Also, I'm pretty sure that Accrington isn't mentioned in that particular book, in fact neither was England or anywhere in the western world.

Not sure why anyone would consider a story from ancient middle eastern theatre for the general entertainment of the public (feeding of the 5000 and other fantasies) would provide some sort of life guide 1700 years later......

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

if this jesus bloke turned up in accy id take him to the local pool and ask him to walk on water again

lets see how confident he is with 2 holes in his feet

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

I'll tell you something else about these Mormons, not one of them has been prosecuted for a false claim, just shows you doesn't it, our benefit system just isn't good enough for them!



Lighten up a little will you?
We now know you're an atheist, you've told us several times, no need to keep on.

Meanwhile you are wrong, Accrington has been mentioned but only in the Latin version, due to misinterpretation the name was changed to 'The Garden of Eden'.
During the industrial revolution the original apple tree was dug up and cobble stones replaced the flower borders so that it was easier to get the workers to the factories.
:)

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

You might not be sure GE but those teachings and life guides as you call them* give consolation and enrichment to the lives of millions of peaceful people. Fact
*teachings as in all the major religions.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

It somehow seems fashionable to sneer at those who have some faith/religion.

Many people are what I would call quietly 'christian'(They live their lives by christian rules)...they may not even attend organised services....you can pray anywhere(if you have a God, you are sure he will listen whether you are in some gilt decorated, plaster saint adorned church, or you humble bedroom).

These 'quietly christians' may not advertise their faith...they don't wear it like a hijab or burka..preferring to be private about their beliefs.......and whatever the sneering atheists say, they gain comfort from knowing in their heart that their faith will sustain them.
There are many of these 'quietly christians' about...you just don't see them.

Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

I don't equate morals with Christianity (or any religion) because there simply is no link.

People know the difference between right and wrong and that has nothing to do with whether you believe in the sun, the sea, Thor, or more "modern" religions if they can be called that.

Religion and faith are the primary cause of war in the modern world just as they were in olden times.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

its not a matter of becoming fashionable to sneer at religion its that people have evolved and have a better understanding of how things work.Humans are no longer halfwit uneducated guilable creatures with no education that will buy any story going or worship something they dont understand.If i took a petrol lighter back in time i would most likely be dubbed teh god of fire the man who can produce fire from his finger tips.

the bible use to be called gods word but now most of the things in it are deemed a crock of crap we are told it is merely a guide to what god wants.

how convinient

you want to have an imaginary friend then fine but dont go around telling people he exists then complain when you get laughed at

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

A bit like the inflamation coming from your fingertips now accyman via your keyboard eh? ;)

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

You do not have to be gullible or uneducated to have a belief..or faith in what you might sneeringly call 'an imaginary friend'.
I know lots of very well educated people who have their own quiet belief.
Faith is called 'faith' because it is an unquestioning belief in something that you cannot prove, something you cannot see, something you cannot touch.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

So where do you think morals and ethics evolved from?
Do you think the ability to differentiate right and wrong is an inborn trait?

Way back in the mists of time, education was provided to children from monks of all denominations. They were the ones with the books, the ones who could read. They were the ones who formed society and of course the morals and ethics of society.
If you have the honour of teaching a child, then you have great influence over what that child will think when he comes to maturity(I say he, mainly because it was only boys who were educated).
So while you may not equate the ability to determine right and wrong from faith teachings, it undoubtedly had an effect.
(I say this most respectfully).

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

War is primarily about greed, territory and dominance.Religion has nothing to do with war...it is men who have justified war and used religion as the justification.

Cavemen made war against one another...we just do not know if they cited religion as the reason, as there is no written documentation to interpret/misinterpret.

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

and there I end my involvement in this thread. I have said all I want to on this subject.

Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

I am also an atheist, however it gives me no right to belittle someone's faith, after all, I believe there is no God, I have no more proof that he/she/it doesn't exist than a devout believer has that he/she/it does exist.
Surely, the only advantage we have is we don't have to get up early to worship?

Re: Attack on soldier in woolwich
 

You are being just a tad disingenuous GE, Margaret addresses the points so so well in her posts #179 & 180.
Religion has changed it's function with time over the course of human societies The original function of religion was explanation and social organisation. Origin myths like the book of Genesis are widespread to explain the universe, people and language diversity. The ancient Greeks who identified correct scientific phenomena, incorrectly invoked supernatural agents to explain sunrise, sunset, tides, winds and rain. Yes increasingly religions original explanatory role has increasingly been userped by science but you can't refute the social organisation aspects of any religion then or now within that has to be education and morals or they would have self destructed.

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Some people yeh just can't tell owt, They know it all.;)

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I know, how many times have I told you what to think and you still insist on getting it wrong?

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The so called god of the present day christian religion was invented by moses and his cohorts to keep control of the tribes of Israel.
No matter which brand of religion takes your fancy, its all about control & power of the many by the few. Its just another form of dictatorship, do as tha telld or thal fry in hell.

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the only good thing about christianity is that you can say what you like about it and not be called a racist or end up in trouble with teh law.Say anything similar to what iv said today about islam or put a certain picture up on a forum and riots start all over teh world,your death demanded and possible prosecution from the law.

what a complete and utter joke

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No it isn't the punch line is missing!

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My moral compass didn't come from Christian teachings. I realised that was a crock just as soon as I saw the pope step out on the balcony of his self proclaimed tax free palace to see that (plus the story was just way too ludicrous to hold up to the slightest examination). Saying people "just know" must give them great comfort. Alas weak minded people need to feel that there is a point to all this.....

My kids are not brought up with a shred of religious bull but you can be sure they are well aware of the difference between right and wrong.

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We are meandering off the thread, but here's another one. Probably religions strongest role in early societies was that of defusing our anxiety over problems and dangers beyond our control. When people have done everything realistically within their powr, then thats when they are most likely to resort to prayers, rituals, donations to the gods, consulting oracles etc. Yes of course all those methods are scientifically innefective at producing the desired result. But by preserving the fiction and convincing ones self and peer group that we are still doing something, we arent helpless and haven't given up. People feel in charge, less anxious and able to function and make their best effort.
This function in many religions has of course decreased as societies increased their control over lifes course by governments (state) growing stronger and decreasing the frequency of violence and other dangers. By organisation the state religious or otherwise became better at reducing famines by storing and distributing food and the development of science and technology.

Whichever way you slice it all this has it's roots in organised religion GE.
Homo sapien would not be where it is today without the leg up the evolutionary and social ladder religion gave us.

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No-one gives a monkey about your religious beliefs, until you tread on their toes.
I'm sure you have brought your kids up as well as you could.

Believe or don't believe, this non existent god gave you freedom of choice NOT to believe so every time the argument is lost.
Meanwhile, we seem to be well away from the subject, which is that some poor sod was killed in his homeland by an idiot terrorist?

With or without a god, this should not be allowed.

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You forgot to mention oil.:D

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Now this guy was a hot head:D

Fire - The Crazy World Of Arthur Brown @ TOTP 1968 - YouTube

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Really? So how do you explain day time TV or some of the dross being doled out of an evening? :)

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Didn't know you could get Jeremy Kyle in Germany Dave:rolleyes:

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There is plenty of other crap that you didn't mention Jay - but that would have had you typing all night and probably going into dyslexia overload:D

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We've the satellite set up for UK freeview, so unfortunately it's receivable here, but fortunately I'm at work. :)

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Well I've plenty of time on my hands, I think, might give it a go next time the plastics are on live:rolleyes:

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Meanwhile back on thread:

It was reassuring to read and hear in the news tonight that
relatives of Adebolajo have issued a very courageous statement of condolence to Drummer Rigby's family saying:
"As a family, we wish to share with others our horror at the senseless killing of Lee Rigby and express our profound shame and distress that this has brought our family.
We wish to state openly that we believe that there is no place for violence in the name of religion or politics.
We believe that all right thinking members of society share this view, wherever they were born and whatever their religion and political beliefs.
We wholeheartedly condemn all those who engage in acts of terror and fully reject any suggestion by them that religion or politics can justify this kind of violence.
"We unreservedly put our faith in the rule of law and, with others, fully expect that all the perpetrators will be brought to justice under the law of the land."

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Yeh it was good to hear in my view.