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-   -   All The Best To You Graham (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/all-the-best-to-you-graham-65724.html)

accyman 20-06-2014 22:44

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
if people are complaining about the same stuff time and time again it shows that the stuff been complained about isnt been fixed

fix the stuff and the stuff wont be complained about

i think most of the labour lot that were so present before winning the council left pretty quick after the EU referendum vote and the taking away of benches to solve the smackhead issue in town

we would love to say well done but lets face it there hasnt really been anything to say well done for just one mess after another

people like jones and ken are why i dont vote labour any more infact this new labour sucks arse

Guinness 21-06-2014 00:11

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Not having the anti Tesco argument at all...it's much nearer to walk to than Asda from the current bus station and significantly closer to the railway station. Logically, the proposed bus station would be more beneficial to Asda than Tesco because it would bring it nearer to them than it currently is. It's a moot argument anyway because most high street shoppers with any sense and without their own transport would simply stay in the bus station until the Blackburn or Burnley connecting bus came.

Also not having the anti Whitebirk argument either. Shopping habits have changed and high street shops with their overheads cannot offer the prices that purpose built retail park superstores can. It's so easy to jump in the car, hit the retail park, have a browse, buy something, put it in the boot and continue browsing. If you are after something in particular, check it out online, price it up, order it and simply go and pick it up.

I know there are people like Margaret, who still use the bus, trudge around town and catch the bus home, in reality you should welcome the new bus station, you can get a connecting bus to a town with a proper market and high street like Bury, Blackburn or Burnley, and have a nice cup of coffee in the warmth while you wait.

The only thing that keeps high streets alive around the country are bustling markets..unfortunately consecutive Hyndburn councils have turned our market into a tight wet windtunnel and our high street into a conglomerate of cheap and nasty charity shops (which in many cases pays more to its upper management than its actual charity), bookies, pound shops and empty units with wallpapered windows. On top of this there is apparently no enforcement of littering, open drug and alcohol use or anti social behaviour except for removing benches for the old and infirm to rest their weary bones.

And Ken Moss wants positives???? The mind boggles...Oh wait, he has suggested putting some shops along the canal in Rishton..I guess that would really help to bring people into the town centre.

He bangs on about getting everything he needs from Accrington high street, yet when I challenged him on another thread about where he buys his toys for his grandkids, his books, his laptop etc..etc.. he refused to engage, nor did he comment on the fact that the boxing day sales last year caused mayhem in Blackburn and Burnley yet didn't even raise an eyebrow in Accrington.

But hey..he says 'we all have a miserable outlook on life', and according to him have 'nothing positive' despite thread after thread offering ideas, insight and thoughts, which incidentally he chooses to ignore because none of them agree with his own blinkered view.....a view which is party orientated regardless of what he would have you believe..this is the man who a few short posts ago claimed that an obvious spin intended to deceive, posted on an MP's website was a 'social media mistake'..you couldn't make this up if your name was Jacob Grimm.

Margaret Pilkington 21-06-2014 09:09

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
All this stuff about the bus station is in the wrong thread...and we are going to get our knuckle rapped soon by Mick or Neil.
There is a thread dedicated to the pros and cons of the new development of a bus station....and that is where these posts belong...this thread was about out much vaunted MP and his exploits.
Somewhere along the way(as is usual) we have got side tracked.

Guinness 21-06-2014 22:32

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1108793)
All this stuff about the bus station is in the wrong thread...and we are going to get our knuckle rapped soon by Mick or Neil.
There is a thread dedicated to the pros and cons of the new development of a bus station....and that is where these posts belong...this thread was about out much vaunted MP and his exploits.
Somewhere along the way(as is usual) we have got side tracked.

Erm....thats what my last paragraph did..the rest just countered some of the arguments put forward in the preceding posts stimulated by the arguments that Ken Moss used..

Debates meander and encompass varying points of view, that will, from time to time, incorporate ideas and arguments from other threads....more so in threads with a political bent.

If I were to suddenly place my last post in the thread you are talking about, it would have no context and no preceding argument.

The thread wander rules are like the health and safety rules, they need sensible governance (and a little leeway) that doesn't insist on wearing goggles to play conkers.

Margaret Pilkington 22-06-2014 09:30

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Guinness, are you female?(for the record I know you aren't) Females are the ones who assume they are guilty of some misdemeanor when usually they aren't.
I was not referring to your post specifically, but to the many more(including my own) which went before.
Had I been referring to your post I would have quoted it.

I also know that threads wander and meander- usually coming back to the gist of the post.....but the mods are the ones who ultimately decide.
I was just saying that we were in danger of getting told off.

g jones 06-07-2014 20:44

All The Best To You Graham
 
Accyman. I pop by and read the posts regularly.

I don't agree with you on most issues. I believe in getting stuck in, you believe in sitting back and criticising.

I read your posts with sadness at how little you know about what is going on in your own area and your desire still to tap away. If you ask you may discover you find out more. Denigration won't lead to anything.

Less 06-07-2014 21:08

Re: Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 1109920)
Accyman. I pop by and read the posts regularly.

I don't agree with you on most issues. I believe in getting stuck in, you believe in sitting back and criticising.

I read your posts with sadness at how little you know about what is going on in your own area and your desire still to tap away. If you ask you may discover you find out more. Denigration won't lead to anything.

Yet another negative post, this time not from the lacky, but from the main disappointment.
Your mate wants positive posts and threads.
The title of this thread was positive however both of you continue to be negative, so far as the site is concerned, we may reply in more positive terms when you actually do get stuck in, instead of trying to climb the slimy pole your party has offered you.
We, (your voters) don't need you to be a whip, we need you to put our concerns before those of your party.

Will that happen? Will you reply? Will your answer be positive (for you constituency)? Will I and many others that are concerned with how you've turned out vote for you next time?

Hell, yet again I expect no reply other than if I'm lucky, a scathing and unworthy reply from a guy that seems to be considering himself above all others.

P.S. My drains still have metal covers on them, & no one around here seems to have malaria, thanks for your hard work on those local issues.

Margaret Pilkington 06-07-2014 21:38

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Graham, you may pop by regularly to read posts, but you do not contribute much to the forum any more........and if there were nothing to criticise then we would be patting you on the back for doing something to enhance our borough. Your patch.

Alas, as Less has so succinctly observed you seem much more concerned with getting ahead in the Labour party...and that will be to your detriment when the next general election comes around.
Yes, there are still some of those who would vote for a donkey if it was under a Labour banner, but for many of us the scales have fallen from our eyes.

MargaretR 07-07-2014 13:59

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
I have read that government whips , which our MP is, have 'grey books'.
The practice of keeping 'grey books' began in the time of Edward Heath and has continued ever since.

The grey book contains personal info about individual politicians which is used in a threatening manner in order that they will 'toe the party line' rather than risk that info being made public. i.e. blackmail.

During this current rallying of MPs to support the demand for a child abuse enquiry, I have noticed that our MP has not given his support.
Peruse this list - his name isn't on it.
Pressure builds in Parliament to address child sex abuse in UK | ExaroNews

It appears that his duties as labour whip are affecting any moral stance he may have on the topic.

I would like him to say why he doesn't back a government enquiry into child abuse.

Margaret Pilkington 07-07-2014 15:18

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Margaret do not expect an answer any time soon, for I fear he will not come on here and justify himself.
After all, there is no justification for sexual abuse of children.

accyman 07-07-2014 15:19

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 1109968)
I have read that government whips , which our MP is, have 'grey books'.
The practice of keeping 'grey books' began in the time of Edward Heath and has continued ever since.

The grey book contains personal info about individual politicians which is used in a threatening manner in order that they will 'toe the party line' rather than risk that info being made public. i.e. blackmail.

During this current rallying of MPs to support the demand for a child abuse enquiry, I have noticed that our MP has not given his support.
Peruse this list - his name isn't on it.
Pressure builds in Parliament to address child sex abuse in UK | ExaroNews

It appears that his duties as labour whip are affecting any moral stance he may have on the topic.

I would like him to say why he doesn't back a government enquiry into child abuse.

because he hasnt been told what to do yet perhaps ?

i know the people of XXXington would like him to sign it maybe as many as %95 but thats just a rough estimate

even if he does sign it he will proobably come back expecting a thankyou for doing somthing that was moraly right to do without hesitation

Margaret Pilkington 07-07-2014 15:22

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
You mean his conscience(you know, that little voice inside your head that tells you when you are doing something wrong) is on holiday.
On this subject, he should need no telling what to do. He has a child of his own......I am sure he would do everything in his power to prevent the sexual exploitation of that child.

accyman 07-07-2014 15:26

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
now now matgaret MPs arnt for criticizing they are elected so they can ask what other people are doing to sort out local issues

as pointed out i have no understanding of what is happening in the town i have grown up in so how could i ever imagine how to understand that child abuse is wrong and needs rooting out no matter how high up the perverted may be

the error i would make as a MP would be to put my signature on that thing before the ink had time to dry

Margaret Pilkington 07-07-2014 16:09

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Yes......we must be careful lest Graham thinks we are just criticising, while he is getting stuck in(stuck into what I am tempted to ask).
After all, we have no idea what life is like for a busy Labour MP......and you know Accyman denigration won't lead to anything...we should be asking if we want to find out things......not tap tap tapping away in this critical fashion.
OK...so I AM asking.

Graham why didn't you sign to give your support to this investigation?

Less 07-07-2014 16:32

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1109982)
Graham why didn't you sign to give your support to this investigation?

Do you really expect an answer to that question?

Perhaps if you worded it in a more positive manner?

Graham we know you are busily working away on our behalf and getting stuck in, unlike we the common man, that wouldn't know what to stick in where, however could you please explain in simple terms for we the plebs, why your inaction to put your vast and expansive knowledge of what is good for us in the form of a signature showing support for the investigation.

P.S. If you don't have the time/inclination/wish to answer this question I and your other loyal constituents will understand that we don't really need to know but must continue in blind faith that anything you do is for our own good, But please, don't treat us like children, it turns out they get far more abuse than should be allowed in any so called, civilized society and I don't want to join their ranks.
:)

Yours creepingly, etc. etc.

:)

JCB 07-07-2014 16:47

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
As I said a few weeks ago I say again .

Some of the anti-Graham Jones posts which appear on a regular basis are not motivated by politics but by personal animosity towards Graham Jones.

Margaret Pilkington 07-07-2014 16:57

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
No Less.....in fact I would be very surprised if he came on here to give me an answer.....because there is NO acceptable answer.
Every right minded person would jump at the chance to ensure that those in the echelons of power were transparent in their doings....that whatever their social standing, if they were involved in vile activities, they face the same justice that you or I would face.

But my suspicions are such, that I believe that this will not happen.
The establishment will close ranks, deny that there was anything in any of the dossiers handed to Leon Brittan all those years ago.....those that he hoped would never see the light of day.

I am so cynical as to think that this man told some civil servant to bury them so deep that they would never be found again.

I remember an admonishment that my mother used to use' Be sure your sins will find you out'.....and they surely do because there is always someone who knows what you did, saw what you did or was doing it with you.....and they cannot be relied on to keep quiet.

Margaret Pilkington 07-07-2014 17:00

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 1109989)
As I said a few weeks ago I say again .

Some of the anti-Graham Jones posts which appear on a regular basis are not motivated by politics but by personal animosity towards Graham Jones.

I have no animosity towards Graham Jones.....only to the things he does.....and some of the things he does not do....that perhaps he should be doing.
I am honest in my posts and say it as I see it.
If that is wrong, then I plead guilty.

Less 07-07-2014 17:34

Re: Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 1109989)
As I said a few weeks ago I say again .

Some of the anti-Graham Jones posts which appear on a regular basis are not motivated by politics but by personal animosity towards Graham Jones.

You can repeat it as often as you like, you will probably be wrong.
I've met the man on several occasions and found him to be amiable.

However the results from Graham Jones the politician are what get my back up and until he improves he will get my tit for his low standard tat that he demonstrates whenever he posts.

MargaretR 07-07-2014 18:18

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB (Post 1109989)
As I said a few weeks ago I say again .

Some of the anti-Graham Jones posts which appear on a regular basis are not motivated by politics but by personal animosity towards Graham Jones.

I was a lifelong labour voter until I became disallusioned with politics a few years ago. I met Graham Jones at an Accy Web meet at the Stag Inn. He was a labour councillor then. He was friendly chap and I neither do, nor did, bear him any personal animosity.

I can see from his actions and posts since his election as an MP, that the malevolent self interest that pervades politics has clouded his judgement, so that when his constituents question his motives, he automatically assumes the party stance, maybe in the further persuance of his status in the party to the disregard of all other considerations

MargaretR 07-07-2014 18:47

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
In post #110 here, I described the 'grey books' maintained by whips.

It seems that are also described as 'dirt books' and this is an article describing how they are used.
The Dirt Book: How the sexual abuse of children is used for political gain | spotlight

Our MP is a whip so he is likely aware of which MPs have mucky secrets.

Less 07-07-2014 19:38

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
I suppose a frightening thought could be how a newly elected MP may be groomed into making career busting mistakes of almost any kind, just so they can be controlled from the very beginning.
The Palace of Corruption, Westminster, no wonder politicians should never be trusted.

accyman 07-07-2014 20:56

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1109990)

But my suspicions are such, that I believe that this will not happen.
The establishment will close ranks, deny that there was anything in any of the dossiers handed to Leon Brittan all those years ago.....those that he hoped would never see the light of day.

they are already using phrases like "but the person involved was of legal age when the incident happened " on the news

so basically watering it down to been ONLY rape then

only in the world of politics could something be deemed more acceptable because it was adult rape and not child rape


lets hope there is a full enquirey and a lot better job is done than what was done with the news of the world hacking case because in that case the biggest offenders walked free

Margaret Pilkington 07-07-2014 21:04

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
You can hope, but it think that hope will be dashed.
The full and thorough enquiry should have been done years ago......when CS was messing about with children.......and the establishment covered things up.

cashman 07-07-2014 21:15

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Enquire all they want, way i see it is, if oer 100 documents of accusations have convienantly vanished,then theres more chance of being struck by lightening than the "Real Big Wigs" will get prosecuted.:rolleyes: Hope all yeh want, it aint gonna happen imho.

Margaret Pilkington 07-07-2014 21:23

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Cashy, I will share some of my anti cynicism pills with you.....it seems like we both need them!
Don't want to be accused of being critical or unfair to our 'honourable(?) member'.

accyman 08-07-2014 01:49

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
hopefully most of the victims are still alive and willing to come forward with fresh complaints

Alan Varrechia 08-07-2014 13:10

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
1 Attachment(s)
Bet this is not far from the truth.

Alan Varrechia 08-07-2014 13:10

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
1 Attachment(s)
Or this. :D:D:D:rolleyes:

Margaret Pilkington 08-07-2014 16:19

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
I see there has been no answer to the direct question I posed to our elected representative.

Less 08-07-2014 16:25

Re: Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1110069)
I see there has been no answer to the direct question I posed to our elected representative.

You've been holding your breath again haven't you?
How many times have you been warned against doing that?

Margaret Pilkington 08-07-2014 16:35

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Seeing as I asked this question yesterday at 17.09...if I had held my breath I would be dead by now.
I know better than to hold my breath when asking a question to a politician.

Boeing Guy 08-07-2014 16:40

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Some people would say the goings on at Westminster are similar to Yes Minister, The New Statesman or even The Thick of It (all very very good and scathing) But for Graham maybe Francis Urquhart would be more applicable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_o..._(UK_TV_series)
or even the US version, which is not bad at all if not as downright evil.

To paraphrase FU, '....Whip, merely a functionary. I keep the troops in line. I put a bit of stick around. I make them jump. And I shall, of course, give my absolute loyalty to whoever emerges as my leader'

I wonder what GJ thinks.....

cashman 08-07-2014 16:54

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1110071)
Seeing as I asked this question yesterday at 17.09...if I had held my breath I would be dead by now.
I know better than to hold my breath when asking a question to a politician.

Thing is,according to the other days news, the chances of yeh getting a straight answer to a question (when Graham pops by) are very remote.:D;)

Margaret Pilkington 08-07-2014 16:59

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy (Post 1110072)
I wonder what GJ thinks.....

Does GJ think?
Perhaps he just does as he is told...those that are in this mindset rarely have to think......and the thinking muscle is like any other muscle, it atrophies when not used.

Less 08-07-2014 17:10

Re: Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1110074)
Does GJ think?

To keep his lacky happy I will be positive in this post.

Yes, I'm positive he thinks, what he thinks seem's to be that 95% on AccyWeb should keep their mouths shut unless they are singing his praises or repeating the bits of bull he comes along to feed us every now & then.

accyman 08-07-2014 17:30

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1110071)
Seeing as I asked this question yesterday at 17.09...if I had held my breath I would be dead by now.
I know better than to hold my breath when asking a question to a politician.


i checked the site you posted earlier and it hasnt been updated yet so theres either not been any more signatures or they are just behind schedule

mind you he says he often reads the posts on here so id take it he hasnt seen you worthy of answering just yet but also please bare in mind it took weeks for him to explain himself over the EU referendum and it also took a few days to take a pot shot at myself

taking these factors into consideration id expect a reply within 4 days to 8 weeks as an estimate

perhaps if you say you saw a mosquito acting suspitiously you may get a faster response with all teh iminent danger of malaria in hyndburn ...

Eric 08-07-2014 17:40

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1110071)
I know better than to hold my breath when asking a question to a politician.

Or wasting it by asking a question in the first place?;)

Margaret Pilkington 08-07-2014 19:21

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
No breath was wasted in asking this question...no breath was used...just fingers tapping away critically :)

nicola68 08-07-2014 20:16

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
I have written to Graham (via email) requesting that he sign the petition telling him that I find it seriously worrying that he has not yet signed this.. I will await his response (but I too will not hold my breath for a positive response)

Less 09-07-2014 04:56

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1110017)
I suppose a frightening thought could be how a newly elected MP may be groomed into making career busting mistakes of almost any kind, just so they can be controlled from the very beginning.
The Palace of Corruption, Westminster, no wonder politicians should never be trusted.

Another thought along the lines of the 'peoples representatives' being far more in the know than the rest of us, if they do have the dirt on each other isn't it just a little hypocritical in the house to address each other in such terms as 'My Honorable Gentleman'?
:confused:

accyman 09-07-2014 10:36

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1110098)
Another thought along the lines of the 'peoples representatives' being far more in the know than the rest of us, if they do have the dirt on each other isn't it just a little hypocritical in the house to address each other in such terms as 'My Honorable Gentleman'?
:confused:

always seems in a sarcastic tone when said though and would explain all the laughing

when you see them acting up and mimicing behaviour of a chimpanzees tea party it does make you wonder how serious any of them take running this country

maybe we should switch providers like we can with gas and electricity

comparethegovernment.com ...simples

Less 09-07-2014 10:40

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Once every 5 years we get the chance to change faces, but the mouths all spout the same no matter which team they support.

Margaret Pilkington 09-07-2014 11:41

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
How can you tell when a politician is lying?
His mouth is moving.

My anti-cynicism pills have stopped working.
Cashy - I know I said I would share them with you but they are NBG.

DaveinGermany 09-07-2014 12:15

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1110098)
isn't it just a little hypocritical in the house to address each other in such terms as 'My Honorable Gentleman'?
:confused:

Always thought it was "Honourable Member", I'd suggest a few minor changes. Firstly, if they insist on using the much abused word "Honourable" it should at least be pre-fixed with "Dis", failing that, they should just simplify it by using only the word "Member", think that'd about do it. ;)

g jones 10-07-2014 19:49

All The Best To You Graham
 
I don't think anyone who keeps an eye on local matters would suggest I've done little locally.

I do support an investigation. It needs to cover all relevant issues responsibly and there's nothing wrong with giving the scope of that investigation some consideration.

PS Just written a national piece on LabourList this evening that might be interesting.

Margaret Pilkington 10-07-2014 20:04

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
If you do support the investigation why was you name not in the list of those MP's who backed this investigation?

The investigation needs to cover all the relevant issues...and be transparent, so that the general public have faith in the investigation. I think many of the general public feel that there will be a closure of ranks and a whitewash that will shut us all up.

Although how you can have a full inquiry when files and dossiers have been carlelessly lost(or worse) disposed of.
Can't you see and appreciate how distrust has arisen?

g jones 10-07-2014 20:38

All The Best To You Graham
 
We are talking about an inquiry going back decades. Can't see it happening today. Begs a question about nostalgia?

I refused to sign the 3rd party inquiry not because I didn't want an inquiry but because they wanted to bounce people and it was unclear what options were the best (judicial of non judicial for eg), the scope and direction, ie wandering off in wrong direction, investigating individuals and accidentally compromising their potential conviction (police job?) or parliamentRy inquiry about collective responsibility. Whether it would run for years, a year or months? Lots of fair questions that needed answers before going further. Also needed to make sure innocent people weren't named and destroyed because people want names.

Of course they said I didn't want an inquiry because I didn't sign THEIR petition which was untrue and for an organisation supposedly seeking the truth rather spoilt their credibility. Signing up to such an org doesnt sound a good idea to me even if the cause is worthy. Some MPs signed it just to get them off their backs. Surely that can't be right either?

Margaret Pilkington 10-07-2014 21:02

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Well, I am not talking about nostalgia. I am talking about the sexual abuse of children, and the possibility that there has been a cover up for decades because those who were involved considered themselves to be elite and above the law....because they WERE the law and the law makers. As such they had the powers to do this with ease.

And your convoluted reply to my question gives me no confidence.
It wasn't just MP's from one party on the list that I saw.....it was a mix of MP's from across parties......and when someone is tardy about giving their support to something which will probably never reach any concrete conclusions, you have to wonder why there was the delay.....and of course, you draw your own conclusions.
Well, at least, I do. I am sure I am not alone in this.

Less 10-07-2014 21:30

Re: Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 1110220)
We are talking about an inquiry going back decades. Can't see it happening today. Begs a question about nostalgia?

I refused to sign the 3rd party inquiry not because I didn't want an inquiry but because they wanted to bounce people and it was unclear what options were the best (judicial of non judicial for eg), the scope and direction, ie wandering off in wrong direction, investigating individuals and accidentally compromising their potential conviction (police job?) or parliamentRy inquiry about collective responsibility. Whether it would run for years, a year or months? Lots of fair questions that needed answers before going further. Also needed to make sure innocent people weren't named and destroyed because people want names.

Of course they said I didn't want an inquiry because I didn't sign THEIR petition which was untrue and for an organisation supposedly seeking the truth rather spoilt their credibility. Signing up to such an org doesnt sound a good idea to me even if the cause is worthy. Some MPs signed it just to get them off their backs. Surely that can't be right either?

We are talking about people that used power and influence to get away with sex crimes against children, I doubt that those abused will be calling their memories anything like nostalgia.
As I write this you are still on line, so can I ask are you for or against the conviction of anyone that has abused children no matter how long ago it was.

Or

Have you become someone that thinks one law for the powerful and just screw (physically and metaphorically) the innocent.
Stop dithering and giving us bull, why are you against catching and punishing these wrongdoers?
:mad:

Margaret Pilkington 10-07-2014 21:31

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Ah....I see he is gone!

Margaret Pilkington 10-07-2014 21:33

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Less, now don't be holding your breath while you wait for an answer in politicalese.

Margaret Pilkington 10-07-2014 21:35

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
I would like to know just who the 'they' are(as in their petition).

Less 10-07-2014 21:44

Re: Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1110232)
Less, now don't be holding your breath while you wait for an answer in politicalese.

I don't know about you Margaret, but I was disgusted with that pile of manure he covered our servers with, anyone with any empathy for those that have suffered wouldn't have contemplated such a low standard of answer.

Is he really OUR representative? Is he the best we can hope for? If yes to either or both of the above questions then we really should be ashamed of ourselves.

Margaret Pilkington 10-07-2014 21:53

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Less, I am pretty sure you know my opinion of what our elected representative wrote in answer to my question.
I think I have made my opinions pretty clear.....unlike the reply.....which was obfuscation....pure and simple.
Yes, I thought I could smell a large lump of Fisons!

g jones 10-07-2014 21:56

All The Best To You Graham
 
I had to do something.

My own view has been towards the victims (and an inquiry) in everything I have said so far elsewhere (I addressed your petition question here).

g jones 10-07-2014 22:04

All The Best To You Graham
 
Margaret, I have a 5 year daughter going to bed with all due respect.

Margaret Pilkington 10-07-2014 22:19

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
You have a five year old daughter?
What has that got to do with this thread....unless you are telling me that you left the forum so that you could see her off to bed....if that IS the case then you need to be clearer in your response.
That you have such a young child should make you all the more determined to see that those people who want to harm such young children by abusing them sexually, should feel the full force of the law.... whether they be postman or politician, plasterer or policeman.
Position or social status should be immaterial in the justice system......and transparency when dealing with those who transgress is paramount.

Less 10-07-2014 22:28

Re: Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 1110238)
I had to do something.

My own view has been towards the victims (and an inquiry) in everything I have said so far elsewhere (I addressed your petition question here).

No, you aught to do something, such as direct us to 'elsewhere'? I'm not searching through twitter or anywhere else to find yet another disappointing answer.

you are still pussy footing around the subject, be brave, actually do something, make a statement that actually says something. Please, I beg you, I want to be proud to have you as my MP.:)

g jones 10-07-2014 23:05

All The Best To You Graham
 
Most people are proud and every day I work hard for them.

There's to be two investigations which I fully support. I don't need to sign a petition to find out where my morals lie.

Less 10-07-2014 23:09

Re: Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 1110245)
Most people are proud and every day I work hard for them.

There's to be two investigations which I fully support. I don't need to sign a petition to find out where my morals lie.

You shouldn't work hard for them, you should work hard for ALL.

Tell me, where do your morals lie? More pussy footing around no actual statement of facts.
:(

g jones 10-07-2014 23:18

All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1110241)
You have a five year old daughter?
What has that got to do with this thread....unless you are telling me that you left the forum so that you could see her off to bed....if that IS the case then you need to be clearer in your response.
That you have such a young child should make you all the more determined to see that those people who want to harm such young children by abusing them sexually, should feel the full force of the law.... whether they be postman or politician, plasterer or policeman.
Position or social status should be immaterial in the justice system......and transparency when dealing with those who transgress is paramount.

If you assume good in people, you'd probably have said/thought, "he's busy and he has a family, he probably had to go, never mind. At least he came on." and you'd have been correct.

I don't need to have a daughter to know what's right and wrong.

What we are discussing is the process by which things moved on and the conclusion that was arrived at.

I supported an inquiry, we've ended up in the right place.

As I said to colleagues privately around Westminster at the beginning AND AT THE FULL MEETING OF THE WHOLE OF THE PARLIAMENTARY LABOUR PARTY, my very first words. - we need a sensible process that is focused on the victims but which does not compromise a police investigation.

If that isnt speaking out to influence proceedings I don't know what is?

If you believe in good in people you're probably a lot nearer to the truth on most occasions.

Margaret Pilkington 11-07-2014 06:05

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Graham, the thing is....I DO see good in people. Politicians though, have disappointed me so many times.
Making assumptions about them leads to us, the electorate, being duped.
Many of those in the POW seem to live in a different world to us. They seem to believe that the rules that we live by are not the ones that they should follow.

And forgive me, but unless you make it really plain to those who follow you, by deeds(words mean very little when coming from a politician) then I don't assume the best......I assume that you are waiting for directions from those in the Labour Party who yank your chain.
Your personal morals are one thing.....your political ones are something entirely different.

Graham, you used to give straight answers. When did you learn to be so obscure?
You have changed since you became our MP. You have become like those you mix with.

All this may sound really cynical, but my cynicism has been caused by trusting what the people in power tell me.
Having my trust dashed more than once.

The political apathy that is present in many of the ordinary people like me, has been caused by politicians not giving our concerns any consideration.....by thinking that we are too dumb to be able to understand things.....by talking to us like we are incapable of rational thought.
By thinking that we can be hoodwinked......it is sad, but that is how it is.
Many of the electorate realise that their votes mean very little when it comes to influencing what happens in this country....we have NO democratic power, because which ever party you choose to follow, they are all the same.
You are not in the job for what you can do for me( or the people of Hyndburn).......you are in it for your own ends.

Graham, I am just being honest. Telling it how I see it. Anyone who knows me personally will tell you that this is how I have always been. I have no plans to change anytime soon.

Margaret Pilkington 11-07-2014 06:29

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 1110247)

As I said to colleagues privately around Westminster at the beginning AND AT THE FULL MEETING OF THE WHOLE OF THE PARLIAMENTARY LABOUR PARTY, my very first words. - we need a sensible process that is focused on the victims but which does not compromise a police investigation.

If that isnt speaking out to influence proceedings I don't know what is?

If you believe in good in people you're probably a lot nearer to the truth on most occasions.

Graham, if you say something privately....to your colleagues......then, because I am not one of these people......I know nothing about it.
I only know what I can read in publications, on the internet and on here.
So while that may have happened I have no knowledge of it....no information.
My judgements...of people,of situations are based on the information that I have been able to find. I would hope that what you say in private remains private. In situations of this nature.......what you say publicly is how you are going to be judged.

In my world five year olds are in bed at 7pm on a school night.

cashman 11-07-2014 07:51

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1110256)
In situations of this nature.......what you say publicly is how you are going to be judged..

Those few words sum this matter up perfectly!! In my view,this is n issue that offends public decency, so therefore is n issue that should be strongly spoken of by all who think this way, it is certainly NOT one of these matters to play politics oer, which to me is what seems to be occuring here,:rolleyes: There are quite a few things in this enquiry i aint oer happy about, but the issue is more important than my objections to me.

g jones 11-07-2014 08:25

All The Best To You Graham
 
And as I said at the top, an inquiry is important so why the long political thread? Ridiculous to be honest.

Not getting in a row about bedtime either but mum and daughter had just arrived back. She's doing very very well at school. Sorry but its just courtesy and appreciation that's required, not a lot. Not politics.

Margaret Pilkington 11-07-2014 09:37

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Graham, you only find it ridiculous because it is critical of your handling of things.
It took you quite a while to tell us what your thoughts were.......and because your name was not on the list of MP's who supported the call for an inquiry it created some alarm.
You cannot dodge politics, it is the job you are in and you should be thankful that people like me take an interest.( a lot of people have been 'turned off' anything remotely political)

As for the aside about bedtime...that is all it was...an aside.....I don't do rows.

Courtesy and appreciation is a two way street.......have you heard of 'mirroring'?

Less 11-07-2014 15:45

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 1110267)
And as I said at the top, an inquiry is important so why the long political thread? Ridiculous to be honest.

Not getting in a row about bedtime either but mum and daughter had just arrived back. She's doing very very well at school. Sorry but its just courtesy and appreciation that's required, not a lot. Not politics.

What long political thread?

All I've seen so far is you ducking under everything you have been asked!

You even try to divert the topic by saying you went off to put your child to bed!

Then, you have one of your usual goes because someone bit and mentioned the time.

Consider this Oh great one, dirty pervs of all professions are waking children up from their innocent sleep, just to have their evil way, probably as you were putting your child to bed.

Your child is precious, all children from everywhere are precious.
If there is one thing you could do to bring me over to saying Graham Jones is worth my vote, forget grids, forget malaria, PROTECT ALL CHILDREN.

You have ignored what has been said, or you've tried to twist it.

Now is your chance to prove you are a caring and responsible MP, all children need protecting not just our own, what will you do about it?

(This was posted by someone concerned about children, not interested in Having, children. (sic) Can we have a local MP with similar Ideas?).

Margaret Pilkington 11-07-2014 18:15

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 1110267)
And as I said at the top, an inquiry is important so why the long political thread? Ridiculous to be honest.

Not getting in a row about bedtime either but mum and daughter had just arrived back. She's doing very very well at school. Sorry but its just courtesy and appreciation that's required, not a lot. Not politics.

Oh, and just by the way Graham, it wasn't me who brought your child into this thread....it was YOU.
You need not have done that...it was totally unnecessary. You could just have said that you had something that needed your attention.
Like Less, I think it was done as a diversionary tactic.....not a great way to go....and ill considered in the circumstances.

MargaretR 11-07-2014 20:20

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 1110008)
In post #110 here, I described the 'grey books' maintained by whips.

It seems that are also described as 'dirt books' and this is an article describing how they are used.
The Dirt Book: How the sexual abuse of children is used for political gain | spotlight

Our MP is a whip so he is likely aware of which MPs have mucky secrets.

His responses make no mention of this devious practice, yet he is a labour whip.
I would like to know if he has participated in any cover up.

Margaret Pilkington 11-07-2014 20:37

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
If he gave me such a convoluted answer to my question Margaret......can you imagine the fun he will have with your question?

Less 11-07-2014 20:50

Re: Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 1110320)
His responses make no mention of this devious practice, yet he is a labour whip.
I would like to know if he has participated in any cover up.

Now that is silly, we can't get straight answers to simple questions, he's so much above us these days.
If he is guilty of cover up for someone (which is as bad as committing the crime yourself), even ripping his toe nails out won't bring him to divulge even 5% of anything he may know (ooh look 5% isn't that the inverse of 95%?).
Looks to me like Graham Skybaulker has sold himself completely to the dark side, the only time we'll know if he has involved himself is if it's better for the party to sell him down the river rather than have any real truth passed on to the electorate.
:mad:

cashman 01-08-2014 09:15

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
As there is a public meeting this afternoon,at Charter House about the situation in Gaza, I wonder if all Hyndburns Palestinians have been notified?:rolleyes: This meeting obviously precedes the one about moving Hyndburns Bus station?:rolleyes:

maxthecollie 01-08-2014 09:39

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1111853)
As there is a public meeting this afternoon,at Charter House about the situation in Gaza, I wonder if all Hyndburns Palestinians have been notified?:rolleyes: This meeting obviously precedes the one about moving Hyndburns Bus station?:rolleyes:

Has Graham been invited or is he the guest speaker?

cashman 01-08-2014 10:14

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxthecollie (Post 1111858)
Has Graham been invited or is he the guest speaker?

He has called it,as i understand.:rolleyes:was the info i read as someone had downloaded off twitter.

accyman 01-08-2014 11:10

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
i dont think a meeting on gaza will help anyone hes way to old now to return to football and his hostage negotiation tactics leave something to be desired

leave the bloke alone i say

Neil 01-08-2014 18:25

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1111853)
As there is a public meeting this afternoon,at Charter House about the situation in Gaza, I wonder if all Hyndburns Palestinians have been notified?:rolleyes: This meeting obviously precedes the one about moving Hyndburns Bus station?:rolleyes:

Let me guess how it went - those in Gaza were in the right and the Israelis were all to blame

Margaret Pilkington 01-08-2014 19:06

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Oh Neil...you are just too clever. You should be an MP. :)

accyman 01-08-2014 19:29

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1111917)
Oh Neil...you are just too clever. You should be an MP. :)

he took the test to be a MP but failed by %95

i personally think it was rigged but no idea who by :D

g jones 01-08-2014 21:34

All The Best To You Graham
 
I've spoken at length about the bus station over many years. I called for the new station to be on the current side of town.

Just because I agree to do an event, post a tweet or the papers give a story prominence doesn't automatically make it my priority.

Neil 01-08-2014 21:48

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 1111939)
I've spoken at length about the bus station over many years. I called for the new station to be on the current side of town.

Just because I agree to do an event, post a tweet or the papers give a story prominence doesn't automatically make it my priority.

What was the outcome of the meeting? WHo was getting the blame for the fighting?

Seeing as you brought it up I would be interested to know who you think is to blame?

cashman 01-08-2014 21:51

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 1111939)
I've spoken at length about the bus station over many years. I called for the new station to be on the current side of town.

Just because I agree to do an event, post a tweet or the papers give a story prominence doesn't automatically make it my priority.

I accept it may not be a priority the Gaza stuff, But WHY? has there never been a public meeting about the new bus station? which to me should be a priority.

Margaret Pilkington 01-08-2014 21:59

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
There is a very simple reason Cashy......the powers that be have already decided and they do not want to get into such things as public meetings...after all it would allow the public to think that their views and opinions really mattered.(that would never do)
All that really matters in situations like this is money...not whether the service user are going to be served or happy.

g jones 01-08-2014 22:57

All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1111951)
I accept it may not be a priority the Gaza stuff, But WHY? has there never been a public meeting about the new bus station? which to me should be a priority.

I exhausted every argument at the time Cashy. There were several public meetings. I went to most of them.

g jones 01-08-2014 22:58

All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1111956)
There is a very simple reason Cashy......the powers that be have already decided and they do not want to get into such things as public meetings...after all it would allow the public to think that their views and opinions really mattered.(that would never do)
All that really matters in situations like this is money...not whether the service user are going to be served or happy.

Totally inaccurate. Sorry Margaret, just saying it how it was.

g jones 01-08-2014 23:06

All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1111948)
What was the outcome of the meeting? WHo was getting the blame for the fighting?

Seeing as you brought it up I would be interested to know who you think is to blame?

People who kill other people are to blame in short. There's a distinct lack of humanity.

It has been within Israel's gift to accelerate the peace process.

I've have met Regev, Allon and Abass privately and toured the West Bank with the UN.

Compromise is far more difficult when influential people on both sides hold fundamentalist views.

Barrie Yates 01-08-2014 23:58

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 1111979)
People who kill other people are to blame in short. There's a distinct lack of humanity.

It has been within Israel's gift to accelerate the peace process.

I've have met Regev, Allon and Abass privately and toured the West Bank with the UN.

Compromise is far more difficult when influential people on both sides hold fundamentalist views.

Perhaps this should have been pointed out to Tony Blair prior to GWII, but with regard to Gaza -if Hamas stopped firing rockets, albeit inaccurate and therefore more likely to result in civilian casualties, then there is every likelihood that Israel will cease the retaliation.
Britain is unlikely ever to be trusted politically by the Arab Nations as they still hold the "Balfour Declaration" of 1917 against the British as they see that as the birth of Israel and the support thereafter from the Western Nations.

cashman 02-08-2014 07:34

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates (Post 1111984)
Perhaps this should have been pointed out to Tony Blair prior to GWII, but with regard to Gaza -if Hamas stopped firing rockets, albeit inaccurate and therefore more likely to result in civilian casualties, then there is every likelihood that Israel will cease the retaliation.
Britain is unlikely ever to be trusted politically by the Arab Nations as they still hold the "Balfour Declaration" of 1917 against the British as they see that as the birth of Israel and the support thereafter from the Western Nations.

Sorry Barrie, but the causualty figures,make a mockery of yer more likely to result in civilian casualties comment,whilst i am no fan at all of Hamas, I often used to wonder as a lad,why 2 old WW2 soldiers i knew, used to say Hitler should have finished em off, I understand that comment now.

Barrie Yates 02-08-2014 09:00

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1111998)
Sorry Barrie, but the causualty figures,make a mockery of yer more likely to result in civilian casualties comment,whilst i am no fan at all of Hamas, I often used to wonder as a lad,why 2 old WW2 soldiers i knew, used to say Hitler should have finished em off, I understand that comment now.

I agree Cashy, I don't have much sympathy for the Israelis - one only needs to read about the atrocities committed by the "Stern Gang" et al, on British troops. However, I do understand the retaliation by Israel, no different really than kicking back harder when someone kicks you.
I haven't heard what the UN Peace Envoy is doing about all this, perhaps he is making more noise (and money), on his lecture circuit.

DAV007 02-08-2014 09:19

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
The UN is the world biggest talking shop, makes the EU look respectable!

accyman 02-08-2014 11:50

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
im just wondering what the UN thinks a juniour MP whos party is not in power can actually do for them.Its all well the UN dragging our MP around to take a look at gaza but what exactly is it the UN thinks a MP from an out of power party can do about it.

arnt the grown ups in government from the party actually in power not already looking into this ?

should we adopt a similar policey and invite polititions from around teh world to hyndburn to take a look at our problems ?

g jones 03-08-2014 23:05

All The Best To You Graham
 
Swamp of cynicism...

Less 04-08-2014 07:08

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 1112188)
Swamp of cynicism...

Would you care to expand on that statement?

What is a swamp of cynicism?

Is it :-

A/ The UN.
B/ The EU.

Or no doubt having read your previous posts,

C/ AccyWeb.

You really should learn to make yourself clear when wishing to part with your pearls of wisdom.
:alright:

accyman 04-08-2014 09:15

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
if this is a swamp i know who gets my vote as donkey

its about the only bloody vote he will ever get of mine again :)

Neil 04-08-2014 09:30

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates (Post 1111984)
Perhaps this should have been pointed out to Tony Blair prior to GWII, but with regard to Gaza -if Hamas stopped firing rockets, albeit inaccurate and therefore more likely to result in civilian casualties.....

Have you seen the rockets they use? They are nothing more than big fireworks with explosives in them. No way they can accurately target anything and they indiscriminately fire them into Israel with little hope of hitting what they aim for

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/a...1&d=1407144666

Margaret Pilkington 04-08-2014 12:19

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 1111978)
Totally inaccurate. Sorry Margaret, just saying it how it was.

Well, Graham.....that is how it looks...so while I do not wish to accuse you of being economical with the truth.......I have nothing, absolutely nothing at all that makes me believe what you tell me.

Margaret Pilkington 04-08-2014 12:22

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 1112188)
Swamp of cynicism...

Cynicism is realism dressed in work clothes Graham.

We have become cynical, because politicians have made us like this.....we are duped by them every day(in one way or another)....and cynicism is the crust of our defence.

Long gone are the days when you took a politician on his word.

accyman 04-08-2014 12:49

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1112234)
Cynicism is realism dressed in work clothes Graham.

We have become cynical, because politicians have made us like this.....we are duped by them every day(in one way or another)....and cynicism is the crust of our defence.

Long gone are the days when you took a politician on his word.

they dont give tehir word they say things that lead you to believe they will act one way then say they never actually said they would do what they implied.

with polititions its mostly word play and misdirection.Its a bit like how an illusiionist works but where as an illisionist will take your watch and give it back a politition will take your watch, wallet and expect you to thank them for it and if you ask how the trick is done you will be told your too thick to understand so no explination is needed

Margaret Pilkington 04-08-2014 13:45

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Yes Accyman, you are right.
Right now I am sick of illusions.
I would likes something solid to hang my hopes on...and the hopes of children growing up in a country that seems to be the magnet for all the european ne-er do wells, criminals etc, etc.......I want someone to stand up for us. You know, those of us who pulled our tripes out to make this country something we could be proud of.
Who worked on the understanding that what we had contributed would ensure we were looked after.
That was all an illusion too.

Eric 04-08-2014 13:50

Re: All The Best To You Graham
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1112197)

What is a swamp of cynicism?

I think he's talking about "The Railway";)

And I never really thought of cynicism as a "swamp" ... it's more like a healthy attitude to adopt when listening the horse manure coming from politicians.


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