Animals killed for training
 

British military surgeons are being sent to Denmark for controversial training on live animals, a practice that is illegal in the UK.
"The pigs are strung up then blasted with an AK-47 rifle or a 9mm handgun".
Pigs strung up and SHOT to train British Army medics in treating gunshot wounds - Mirror Online

IMHO this is a absolutely barbaric,disgraceful activity carried out in the name of war,our government should be ashamed.
Just shows how evil mankind and war can be :(

WHAT DO YOU THINK?
Anyone claiming shooting live pigs is beneficial for folk that want to go into the medical profession....

....DON'T TALK WET :p

Re: Animals killed for training
 

While on the one hand it may seem barbaric, but I'd say it's far more barbaric to send a young BMT (Battlefield medical technician) "Medic" unprepared into a combat situation where his/her lack of practical training & ability to overcome the horror of a gunshot wound or blunt trauma injury costs the life of a young Soldier.

The recovery rate & combat survivability has vastly increased over the years mainly due to better medical procedures learnt by our medics being out on the ground with the troops seeing & dealing with actual trauma cases.

So unless you're prepared to welcome our boys & girls home in body bags, don't get so upset about a necessary evil.

Animals killed for training
 

What do I think?

I think you shouldn't get over-excited.

Yet again an over the top emotional rant from your keyboard.

Sometimes not everything that has to be done comes in a pretty package, one member of our serving forces saved is worth a thousand pigs.

That's what I think.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Well, if its in the Mirror, it must be true..

What our Medics learn pn the battlefield, gets transfered to our hospitals.
It may not be nice, but neither is testing drugs on animals, I take it you take painkillers from time to time?
I am with Dave and Less

Re: Animals killed for training
 

This item was in the papers at least a week ago(maybe more).
It circumvents our laws because it happens in Scandinavia(Denmark I think)

The pigs are given an anaesthetic first so they feel nothing. So it is done in a humane manner as the pigs do not suffer
The reason why pigs are used for this research is, when a pig is stretched out on its back all the organs are in the same place that a human beings organs are......they are also the same size. This gives the medics an opportunity to hone their skills that could save the life of some mothers son (or daughter) that sustains a battle injury.

So my question to you would be....What would you prefer.....a live pig, or a dead son/daughter on the field of battle because the medics did not have the skills to save your child?

I know what my answer would be...it is a no brainer.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Possibly yeh had a few beers n typed before yeh thought it through is what i think?:rolleyes:

Re: Animals killed for training
 

as usual this story got out because someone squealed

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Morning folks,
Well I must say I'm pretty shocked at the responses so far.
I understand they use pigs because their physiology is similar to ours,why not use dead ones?
Surely there are other methods of training
CAE Healthcare - Product & Services: Caesar.
Even if the surgery is a success the pigs are killed.
Shooting live pigs which have been strung up by the back legs is the behaviour of (deleted due to forum rules) IMHO (and I've not even had a drink :p).
Being trained to kill a life-form for the purposes of greed, oil and land is wrong,sorry but it just doesn't sit right with me .:(

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Why are you shocked? You asked what we thought we told you, if you are going to attempt controversy then you should expect opinions that don't always (or should that be ever?) agree with yours.

The only thing about it I find shocking is that they have to travel abroad to carry out this training, all those jobs going to Johnny Foreigners when we could be breeding pigs of our own to give this essential training.

As for the rest of this post, is lack of sleep causing you to be over-emotional? Perhaps if you didn't stay up until well passed your bedtime reading what you obviously think to be horror stories that cause you to create (for you), such worrying threads.

There, there, now my little one, don't you fret your little head with things that should only be talked about by rational adults.
:p

Re: Animals killed for training
 

I'm shocked at what seems to be a lack of controversy :D
Perhaps your right about me getting a little emotional,but it's nothing to do with lack of sleep.it's called not being a stone hearted barstool ;)
"Rational adults"....thanks for the laugh :p

It's good to see you firing on all cylinders.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

It would be nice to see you put your brain in gear before attempting anything onsite, I live in fading hopes.

:dummy:

Re: Animals killed for training
 

I`m guessing you don`t have any family or close friends in the military.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

You guess wrong,sorry, but even if all my family/friends were (god forbid) in the military I couldn't and wouldn't condone the torture of these animals in the name of 'medical practice'

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Not me, these pigs are more than likely on there way to being bacon butties anyway, if this helps the medics in any way whatsoever, then it`s worth doing.
I`d be more bothered if they were being used for testing of perfumes or make-up, but to save the lives of soldiers, doesn`t bother me at all.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Exactly a pigs life or a soldiers is NO CONTEST. simple as.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Well I will repeat,


Even if the poor soul is unfortunate enough to have come from the same gene pool as you.

http://cooltop10s.com/wp-content/upl...3/06/Moron.jpg

Re: Animals killed for training
 

There are other subjects I'd replace the pigs with,I'll leave it to your imagination :thefinger

Re: Animals killed for training
 

The pigs are anaesthetised(they feel nothing) and the reason live pigs are used it to assess the success of the field surgeons. If you are doing this work on dead pigs you will never know if they would survive the surgery - or what complications might ensue as a result of surgery. The pigs are even given analgesia as they recover - again to see how this works for them.......this is important research.
It is done as humanely as possible.

This is another one of those sensationalist news paper stories....when I read these I alway wonder what opther news is being 'buried' - yes, I know I am a cynical baggage
Much more humane than a halal killing....and I am pretty sure that somewhere along the way you will have consumed halal meat - that is unless of course you only eat pork and bacon.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

It also sounds more humane than how pigs are killed at the slaughterhouse - How are pigs slaughtered today? - Yahoo Answers

"The animal has chians put onto its legs.

The animal is then struck in the head with an air powered gun that shoots out a metal rod.
This just knocks the animal out so that the heart it still beating.

Then the chians are tightened and attached to the ceiling and the animal is the lifted up.

The throat of the animal is then slit and the animal bleeds out. The blood will basically shoots out as the heart of the animal is still beating. When the blood stops draining out the animal will die for obvious reasons. This process takes around two mintues."

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Are you sure they feel NOTHING?
If they are fully anaesthetised why tape up their mouth?
Im not sure that operating on a pig and trying to save its life would be the same as a human plus there are other alternatives.(Caesar patient simulator which breathes and bleeds and can be used anywhere).
Stringing these animals up for 'unnecessary purposes' is a bit different to the food industry (with or without a so called prayer) IMHO.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Some would say killing animals for food is unnecessary.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

If it wasn't necessary then it wouldn't be done, you asked for opinions, you got them, they don't suit you but don't waste your time trying to change our minds, move on to the next sensational topic you want to make a pigs ear of, (try and do it on facebook though, then you won't be upsetting the sensitive folk of AccyWeb).

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Yes, they are fully anaesthetised.
The pig has a fearsome set of teeth, the mouths are taped so that when they are coming round from anaesthesia, the possibility of a bite from a semi conscious pig is minimised.
As to your question as to whether I am sure they feel nothing - of course I cannot be sure, but they are given the appropriate anaesthetic as a man of the same weight would get. Having worked in a theatre environment I know that this means they should feel nothing.
What I am sure about is, that every attempt is made to ensure that this research is done in a humane way.

These are not unnecessary purposes. I suppose you would prefer that the field surgeon practised on wounded soldiers and if they die...well, they die.
If their death can be attributed to a lack of skills then wouldn't you prefer to see those skills acquired?
Service men and women deserve the best skilled care that can be given.
If skills learned this way saved a son or daughter of yours, then I think your perspective on the research would change.

I know of the Ceasar Patient Simulator, there must be some aspect of this research work that makes the Ceasar Simulator unsuitable.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Margaret. its pointless trying to convince some people, A lesson i learnt many moons ago, just let em get on wi it. I try to give me view n odd time wi em,but also try to leave it at that then.;)

Re: Animals killed for training
 

We were asked for opinions. I have given mine and justified it in a clear way.
I know I am retired, but I still take a great interest in medical matters and still read research papers.

I am very wary of research in general, but I think this type of research is valid and enhances the skills of those involved in treatment of people who are injured in a theatre of war.
Anything that makes the survival of these combatants more likely and with a better quality of life will get my vote.

I would also like to add that I am not in favour of some of the animal testing that is used in some situations - but this is one of the situations where I feel that animal testing is justified.
Accyexplorer if this doesn't sit well with you then I am sorry....I have to be honest in my response.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

No Margaret you are wrong, you do not have to apologise for giving your honest opinion to this person, he/she just has to like it or lump it.
:)

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Less, I am sorry if my honest reponse causes offence to Accyexplorer.

When you are particularly passionate about something(and we have all been there at one time or another) it is sometimes difficult to see another point of view.

I am just outlining where my opinion comes from, justifying(although you may say that no justifcation is needed) why I hold the views that I do.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

You put forward your views in a straightforward fashion, easily understood by 95% of AccyWebbers.

I do say you have no need to justify it, the thread starter asked for opinions, we gave honest replies, he/she didn't like the replies, tough on him/her not us.

:)

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Margaret,like I've said before I value your opinion (even when it is different to mine) same as MOST folks opinion ...thanks for clearing up why you hold the views you do.I appreciate your time an effort.

I'm just split between what I think about killing innocent animals and the benefits (if any) to saving soldiers life's.Of course if it was as clear cut as some think,then obviously I'd choose a soldiers life over a pigs.
Thanks again

Re: Animals killed for training
 

I wonder if the OP thinks that the people doing this actually "like" doing it?

Its necessary training to ensure that the medics are able top practice their training on live subjects without actually harming a human to do it.

Its not like using a crash dummy to test a car safety, it has to have living breathing flesh. Dead bodies react in different ways to live ones, wounds do too.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

You are welcome.
I can live with the views of others. They have their reasons for their belief system...and it deserves respect.
It would be a very boring world if we all had the same thoughts about things.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Thanks for your input RS.

I'm not sure if they "like" doing it....probably/hopefully not.
Would it be fair to say that animal flesh/wounds might react different to a humans?
Would it also be fair to say that compared to operating on pigs that have been shot, lifelike human simulations (like the one I mentioned) are a far superior way of preparing these doctors to treat injured humans?

Besides I'm sure they are fully aware by now of how flesh reacts to being shot.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Some animal flesh may react in a different way.....pig flesh is as close to human flesh as it can possibly be...and the anatomy is the same too.
It isn't just the way human flesh reacts to being shot, but it is reconstruction of flesh, organs and developing skills that will make this better for field surgeons.
The Ceasar simulator might be good for some practice methods, but no good for others.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

What exactly are "innocent" animals and how do they differ from "guilty" animals? If you eat meat and wear leather (neither of which are prerequisites for human existence), "innocent" animals are being killed for your pleasure everyday.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

I comprehend what your saying,perhaps I shouldn't of categorised them :o

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Also for the record,
A innocent animal is, a pig that's strung up and shot to serve a controversial purpose (like medical training).
A guilty animal is humans that take a country to war over land,oil,greed.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Are the guilty animals not the ones who do the fighting instead of saying no?

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Those would be politicians then...if you speak to most people in the street they abhor such practices.

No sane person wants to go to war - and politicians will volunteer our sons and daughters to go and fight on foreign soil, but would be unlikely to go themselves.

This thread show that not everyone finds the subject controversial....but media hype tries to make it so by not giving the full facts, or by distorting the facts.
Like everything else in life, you have to balance out the benefits against the losses.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Who says it's controversial? A fish-and-chip wrapper like the Mirror and you? As DinG said way back at the start of this thread, it's important that medics are trained to give effective treatment to our lads and lasses in the battlefield. Some of the wars they are required to fight in are unjust in my opinion, especially in recent years, but they are there to defend our country when the need arises and I would prefer them to receive the highest standard of treatment available, even if it means sacrificing a few "innocent" pigs.

Incidentally, do you worry over the fate of "innocent" pigs when you're chomping your way through your sausage butties?

Re: Animals killed for training
 

I, too, am surprised that no one has suggested using convicted murderers, rapists, and other associated nasty people ... maybe some would include pedophiles, queers, and various ethnic groups. Even Jews ... but that's already been tried.:rolleyes: There's never a shortage of posters who leap onto the capital punishment bandwagon and compete in coming up with creative ways of dealing with crime and assorted "deviances".

However, I do tend to agree with you on the question of using pigs as experimental subjects. And I do think that certain questions are being ignored. Why is the practice illegal in Great Britain? Why, in the 21st. century, is this the best we can come up with, as there seem to be few limits to human ingenuity when it comes to developing weapons systems and smart phones? And, no doubt, there are more.

There is also the irony that, in a largely post-Christian world, most humans still go along with the Biblical idea that God created the world merely for humans to use as they see fit. Unfortunately for us, and the planet in general, this hubristic way of thinking is leading us, at an ever increasing speed, in the direction of the Holocene extinction. Which, thank God, will not happen until after I've shuffled off this mortal coil.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Yes,although they aren't as guilty as the politicians for starting the ruddy things.

Who says it's not controversial? You and a few "accywebbers".here are 4000+ that disagree:
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...itary-training
I don't like sausage butties :)

Re: Animals killed for training
 

4,000 out of a population of 60m? Hardly a mass protest, is it? Whether you like sausage butties or not, the point I was making is that if you're a meat eater, you're using animals for your convenience, so it seems somewhat hypocritical to protest about this.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

So if you take the Queen's Shilling your guilty......

We have an Armed forces to protect our National Interests, so,thing that out Trident Nuclear Deterrent cannot do on its own.
You ignored my comment on the small fact that treatment practices on the battlefield often lead to major advances in treatment in Casualty, Trauma for one.
You have twice now posted that wars for,greed, oil, land etc are not, in your opinion, right. Well here's a surprise, most of us would agree with that.

However our serving Lads and Lasses deserve the very best treatment if they are injured, in fact I am still mad that Teflon and the One Eyed Scottish Idiot broke the covenant the UK government had with our Armed Forces, but I digress.

As I said earlier, have you ever taken any drug, they are tested on animals, sometimes with unpalatable results, but they do not get the coverage the Great Daily Mirror gives this.
If you will read a rag then what do you expect.....

Animals killed for training
 

Well, BG you've just knackered your chances of the creep thanking you for your input.
Still not to worry, you are only one of the few 'AccyWebbers', that it thought needed to be asked, pity it didn't like the answers.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

This argument has been advanced at least since Hippocrates: "He who would become a surgeon should find an army and follow it." It's also worth arguing that advances in aircraft design and safety are accelerated by a good old fashioned knock-down, drag-out war.;) But in all cases of war acting as an accelerant to scientific and technological development, lots of questions go begging for answers. Not the least is: "Is it worth tens of millions of deaths?"

I'm sure that most of us are aware of the use of animals for testing drugs. And many are aware that alternatives are available, and are being introduced.

What irks me is that, with our seemingly unlimited inventive capacity, we still use barbaric methods.

Oh, and Churchill liked pigs.;):D

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Please explain how I'm a creep less?
If you must know I do appreciate BG's views (even if I don't agree fully)....


It's your comments I find hard to digest :(

Attachment 38404

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Eric, I also like pigs. I like most animals. I certainly would not condone cruel practices.
But the fact is skills need to be developed. Skills that might determine whether some soldier lives or dies.
God alone knows why this practice is outlawed in this country.....but there are perhaps many things that ought to be outlawed here but are not.
There are many moral values which have gone to the wall....that leave society poorer.
There are some things in life which are unpalatable......people will buy cheap eggs from battery raised chickens. They will never give a thought to whether their breakfast came from an ethical source.

If you are vegan or vegetarian who never uses products from animals then I can see why you would have a problem with this practice.
But soldiers and the saving of their lives trump pigs every time.

Animals killed for training
 

Just the way you are it seems natural to you.

As for my comments being difficult to digest, I certainly don't mind that, I have already mentioned where I thought you could improve, you've proved me wrong you neither can nor wish to improve.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

You're patrolling some backwater unfriendly village, one of your guys trips an IED & you come under sustained fire by armed insurgents! They blaze away then disappear, you've got 1 definite casualty your mate lying there pumping his life blood into the ground from where his legs used to be, your guys bang on a tourniquet then cover his stumps with field dressings, while trying to plug the other deep penetration wounds,

Then you see you've got 2 other guys down, gunshot wounds! Your "Medic" knows these guys are more serious though less obviously wounded, the bullet goes in leaving a pencil size hole & punches out a fist sized hole through the exit wound! The other guy is grunting, pale but all you can see is the entry wound nothing has come out the other side, the lads Haemorrhaging badly, if you panic & don't know what to do you lose the guy! But you've seen this before, the pig that was shot to train you how, you've got this covered.

This boy's going to be fine because your training kicks in & what seemed excessive in far away Denmark in classroom conditions pays dividends in the field.

And that, is why I don't have an issue with this training.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Voice of sanity Dave

Re: Animals killed for training
 

same reason why i dont sleep with dead women

they work better when their blood is been pumped around their body



if they practiced on dead pigs they would only be fit for treating dead soldiers which kinda defeats the idea of a medic lol

i suppose at a push they could put dead pigs on life support perhasps ?

Re: Animals killed for training
 

OLIVER STONE EXPOSES HORRIFIC MILITARY TRAINING.

WARNING SOME VIEWERS MAY FIND THIS DISTURBING.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KKb1pcZ_MWA

Read some of the comments while there :rolleyes:

Re: Animals killed for training
 

that video is shocking

ready steady cook has gone down hill somewhat

Re: Animals killed for training
 

This is very different to what is going on in Denmark.

The animals used are humanely anaesthetised before any practice is done.
You post something like this which is not at all similar. In that sense you are provoking a controversy.
You link the two situations as if they are the same.......and while PETA do some excellent work, they are in the business to shock.
The video is done for the maximum shock impact. I am not saying that it doesn't happen because I haven't got enough knowledge about what happens across the pond.

As I previously said in another post. I do not condone cruelty to animals, but humans trump animals when it comes to providing for care in life or death situations. You have to have been in those situations in some shape or form to understand them.
Killing pigs is unpleasant...but watching a person die because you haven't got the skills/equipment to save them, lives with you every day of your life.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Its a deliberate attempt to do just that.:rolleyes:

Animals killed for training
 

You asked why I called you creep? Then you give a fine example, in a sad attempt to prove yourself correct you link to something that isn't being discussed and you do it after Dave in Germany gave a very good scenario of why it needs to be done, to save human lives.

Wave your magic wand, stop wars, then this training won't be needed.
Until then, support our troops they deserve the best when they are out there.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Accyexplorer, You obviously believe what you are saying to be true....that this situation is a controversy...that it is wrong, that there is no justification for animals to be used in this way(however humanely they are treated).
I would say to you, that even when you have a stong belief, it doesn't make it fact.
I think your posting of the Oliver Stone/Peta sanctioned video is flawed in promoting your conviction in your belief.
Peta are biased(in favour of animals).....so they are not reliable independent reporters.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

I agree it is made for the shock effect,and it does it's job well IMHO.But I bet it's not that far from what is happening in Denmark.;)

Animals killed for training
 

Allow me to make a suggestion.

When you wander through dangerous empty buildings if you are ever unfortunate enough to have an accident that needs a paramedic to attend to your needs, do not allow him to help you unless you make sure he isn't ex army. It would be hypocritical of you to be saved by someone that has been on this course, after all you are no better than a pig, are you?

Re: Animals killed for training
 

No, I don't believe it is anything like the video....but as I have said before believing doesn't make it fact.

The video you have posted weakens your argument(well, it certainly doesn't strengthen it) because it is not independent. It is filmed by an organisation which has its own agenda...it could have been edited, it could have been faked to make the maximum mileage out of the shock tactics it uses.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

You need to ask yourself AccyX

"Would our porcine pals show the same level of concern if you were hung up by the heels and shot?"

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Probably not.
But then,would anyone else on Accyweb be concerned either?

Re: Animals killed for training
 

What a great way of looking at things :rolleyes:.
Maybe you need to ask yourself,am I really that narrow minded.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Probably not,they'd think "they wouldn't do it if it wasn't necessary" :rolleyes:

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Not true...the loss of any member diminshes us.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Even the ones that we may feel we have little in common with bring something to the forum.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Thats a true fact, How little some people know, Yet some think they know all.:rolleyes:

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Of course it is true Caashy.....it was something I learned from you :D

Re: Animals killed for training
 

This may come as a surprise,but I learnt something too :eek:

I learnt to stay away from subjects that involve our beloved military :rolleyes:

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Why would anyone do that? unless they didn't support em.:rolleyes: N hows this grab yeh? yer comment about having family or friends in the military, I just don't buy it,

Animals killed for training
 

But you haven't learnt, you immediately came back onto the very thread that you made so many mistakes on yesterday.
To make amends?
Nah, just to display a sullen attitude.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

I can assure you I have both family and close friends in the army.
That doesn't mean I support what their doing though,I tried my best to discourage them :rolleyes:

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Then as far as i'm concerned, yer a disgrace.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Criticise the Government that put them there, you'll get no arguments, criticise the troops, you're on a slippery slope covered with your own regrets.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Sorry,but I can't change my beliefs C.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Don't tempt me less ;)

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Feel free to be tempted but, please, don't hide a threat behind a winky smiley.

Do you not think that sitting at your desk just looking at one almighty cock-up of a thread to be just a little obsessive?
The rest of us get on with other things, why not give it up as a bad job? You are not going to salvage any of your broken pride by showing yourself up even further.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Of course you can. Anyone can change their belief if they are presented with a convincing opinion.

It would be hard work - but I bet you could convince me to turn vegetarian if you knew what to say.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Why is it only military medics are trained in this 'controversial' way,why not teach all our docs if it helps save life's?

Re: Animals killed for training
 

How many Doctors are ex-military, dummy?

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Fair play,maybe I've just not heard a "convincing opinion" yet,even with all the hard work some members have put into their comments.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

How many are not,(deleted due to forum rules)?

Re: Animals killed for training
 

You neatly avoided my little trap.

I live up the road from an abbatoir. The animals being "processed" walk in a fenced line to their deaths, knowing what's coming. They scream, and defecate and try to escape, before watching the worker put a bolt gun to their head. And this is all to put a nice little skrink-wrapped piece of meat in your fridge. No anaesthesia there.

These danish pigs suffer no knowledge of their fate, and no pain. And this is all to help increase the chance of survival of a battlefield soldier or (when the medic's tour of duty is over) a drive-by victim in the inner city.

If you're a vegetarian you'll probably get less friction by starting a thread on how inhuman it is to eat meat. If you do eat meat, Well then, that would make you a hypocrite.

(I'm not a vegetarian, BTW.)

Re: Animals killed for training
 

You obviously have not really taken onboard much of what has been said.
You keep on stating that this is a controversial issue - it is only controversial when you do not subscribe to it.
It makes sense to me. I can see the benefits, and they outweigh the drawbacks.
Training that the military receive is also used in the NHS. Research papers are freely available...and it is inevitable that skills learnt in the theatres of war will ultimately benefit trauma victims.

Many surgeons are members of the TA and regularly have tours of duty in places where conflicts are taking place

And I agree with Studio25...given convincing arguments you can change your mind about issues...the only time that this is impossible is if you have a closed mind which is unreceptive to different concepts.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

That would be "Devotions upon Emergent Occasions: Meditation XVll.";)

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Putting comments on here cannot by any stretch of the imagination be considered as hard work.
You cannot be convinced of something if you do not want to be convinced, or if you are not open to a convincing explanation.
I am done with this thread.
I have said all I want to say and it is becoming one of those circular discussions which goes nowhere.
Accyexplorer, if you put up contentious threads, things which you might consider will stir up controversy(whether that be real, imagined or manufactured) then you have to be prepared for views which are at a variance to yours.....and accept the points made in honesty by other forum members.
I'm done!

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Can these medics not do their "tests" on say test tube meat or something though it's 2014 not 1950s.
Surely with all our medical technology there are alternatives to live pigs.

Maybe I'm just unreceptive to different concepts :confused:

Re: Animals killed for training
 

How do you know for sure that they have 'no knowledge of their fate' or suffer any 'pain'?

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Same question as yesterday, just being served up in a different wrapper.

You lack imagination as well as wit.
:(

Re: Animals killed for training
 

And your full of wit (well at least something that rhymes with it) :rolleyes:

Re: Animals killed for training
 

If there were alternatives that gave better results, then i'm damn sure they would pursue them, That must be obvious to all but the exceedingly dense.:rolleyes:

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Like I say lack of imagination, you aren't the first and you won't be the last to use that one. Glad you could get it in before you go.
;)

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Like most of your low grade comments it's probably not original.......... Go?,go where?

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Asking for directions? All the exits are clearly marked, just don't let the door hit your arse as you go through.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

I don't know for sure - I've never been to Denmark let alone seen livestock being used for training.

My only evidence for thinking they don't suffer is that it says they are anaesthetised in the link YOU supplied at the top of the thread.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

I would have thought someone so sensitive to the death of an unconscious pig would have been voicing a lot more qualms about halal and kosher slaughter- a fully conscious animal having it's throat cut right to the spine then left to bleed to death. Now there is a practice which needs reviewing!

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Just read post #238 on the Death of a Woolwich Soldier.

Sensitive to the pigs death but not to its entrails being used as some primitive totem or spell Gordon.

Re: Animals killed for training
 

Its whatever suits at the time "D":rolleyes:

Re: Animals killed for training
 

As you know,If there is one thing about reading papers it's not to believe the properganda they push.
In the pics it shows the pigs mouth taped up,now Margaret suggested it maybe because of when they come round,but I think it's more to stop them biting if they don't use enough anaesthetic like in the clip I posted,which would suggest they do feel these 'procedures'.
Perhaps I'm a new age hippy but didn't know it :)