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And as such, the Military (or what's left of it) should be brought in to assist the local constabulary. Just like in NI through the "troubles" in the 70's. 80's & 90's, after making the acquaintance with a few lumping great rubber bullets & an Infantry section "Snatch Squad" the gob-sheites would quickly learn the error of their ways!

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Stuff rubber bullets, give them live ammo and cull every single one of them

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Age has everything to do with it Neil.
You see most young folk welded to their smart phones.
I can keep in touch without being on FB, twitter or Whatsapp.
I use e-mails, I talk on the phone and the best of all is sitting down face to face with a nice cuppa...you can't beat keeping in touch like that.

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Utter bullshine.

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Enquiry into the grenfell Fire is starting to get interesting, labour mayor Sadiq Khan show as taking money, a bribe perhaps, the Kensington labour mp sat on the board that approved the dangerous renovations, and she also voted against spending 184k on fitting sprinklers

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I also understand that on 7 June 2005 a bill was passed in Parliament that gave an exemption to Tower Blocks built before 2007 needing to have sprinkler systems installed - at that time it was a Labour Government, not sure of the make up of the local council, but JC voted for the exemption.

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Is that true?

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the block of flats was run not by any council but by KCTMO. This body
is made up of 8 TENANTS, 4 councilors and 3 independent members.

2 - Labour hold the seat that the block is situated in.

3 - Labour run the London Council who manage the under funded London Fire Service

4 - incidentally Emma Coad the sitting Labour MP for that ward also sat on the KCTMO.

5 - the advise to stay put which Sadiq Khan has been so vocal about was given by the London Fire Service.

6 - the decision to change contractors during the refurb was made by KCTMO.

7 - the decision not to spend a paltry £138k on fitting sprinklers again KCTMO.

8 - the decision to create ALMO organisation such as the KCTMO was made under the Right To Manage legislation passed in 2002
as part of the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act.

9 - this was put in place to give leasehold tenants a greater say and the ability to self manage, which has clearly proven to be a disaster.

10 - and which Govt was in a charge when this law was passed? Yup you guessed it Labour.

11 - Sadiq Khan as mayor of London Produced a report to say that the fire service did not need further funding.

12 -Emma Coad elected Labour MP was on the board of the Tenant Management group who are being accused of not listening to tenants.

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the above information does imply that Labour are up to their necks in it and shoudlnt be pointing political point scoring fingers at the current government

the way jermy corbyn has used these poor dead children and other lost ones to score political points is sickening

instead of basking in the extra votes he tricked people in to giving MPs across the country they should be demanding he step down and put someone as leader who will gain power in a honest and decent way

i hope our MP still wants rid of him and many more start to see him for what he is also

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Well said Accyman

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There is a lot in the media and on news channels which is uncomplimentary to Theresa May right now, but whatever she had said or done in respect of this tragedy would never have been enough.

As for the rehousing of the families made homeless,it has been noted that Jeremy Corbyn has three homes(he can only live in one at a time) he should offer two of his homes to those who have been made homeless.
Many MP's of all persuasions have residences in London...they should also give up these for the rehousing of families.
In the interim,they can use hotels while they need to be in the city for parliamentary business.

As for tower blocks around the country...every single one of them should be inspected by the fire service and if they do not meet fire safety standards then they should be made to comply.
If this cannot be done effectively (and cost should not be the main issue)then they should be demolished.
Most of them are eyesores anyway

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all towns and cities were saddled with these structures in the swinging 60,s. were heralded as the future to clear out all the slums in the areas. a few years down the line a new slum was created as a lot of tenants got out as quickly as they could like my family. like the concrete shopping centres they are a blot on the landscape and quicker they go into history the happier i,ll be.

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Yes, you are right Monkey Hanger.
One of my colleagues lived in one of these monstrosities.
She had a terrible time with those residents above her.
Eventually she saved up and bought a little cottage...she said the difference was amazing.

That the government in power in 2007 gave exemption to Sprinkler systems in tower blocks says much about them too.
They would be aware that these blocks were homes to those who relied on social housing.
The very people that Labour are supposed to care about and represent.
That they put them in danger, needs to be repeated and highlighted at every opportunity so that people can know the extent of their dishonesty

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Thats correct, yet many suckers believe the rubbish Corbyn is spouting.:(

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same as they believed harold wilson,s brave new modernised world of the 60,s.

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Labour are calling for property seizures, very commendable, as Corbyn owns 3, will 2 of his be the first?:rolleyes:

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labour policy is always do as i say not as i do. come back two jags prescott.

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Buildings before 2013 are exempt fro having sprinklers fitted

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channel 4 and the BBC are hell bent on promoting corbyn and bashing theresa may and facts are not a requirement when doing so by either of them

you kinda expect it from channel4 but not the BBC,,

thing is though its an ex labour guy whos pulling strings at the BBC now and he is far from impartial which is one of the conditions of the BBC been allowed a license fee

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He was an Ex Shadow Minister so what can yeh expect.

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I do. It's been that way for decades.

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Cannot believe my ears, the Government is going to give £5.500 of taxpayers money to everyone that has lost there home. If my house was burnt down do you think they would give me that. NO. Disgusted

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Every government is s**t scared of the media.
The Tories more than any, as they are deemed a natural target within the likes of the BBC.
Politicians' actions are purely dictated by how they will be judged by our self-appointed thought police - the me-dja.

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They don't have home insurance

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Just thank your lucky stars that it wasn't you, or a member of your family - do you really begrudge these people money to help them at this terrible time?
I'm not all disgusted that the government are going to help them, but your selfish comments definitely turn my stomach!

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This mean your disgusted by the immigrants that come over here and you end up paying thier benefits because they're to idol to do anything

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Is that a question or a fact?

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Now ain't that just peachy?

Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants Displaced by Grenfell Fire while 7,000 Veterans Remain Homeless

The fourth paragraph is an absolute beaut, I'm guessing the guy doesn't live anywhere near the complex & as for the Home offarse & Krud, they need showing a lamppost & piano wire. Illegal is illegal regardless of the circumstances, you let these people off scot free then expect a rash of "unexplained housing fires" in the less choicey areas.

Absolutely unbelieveable!

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I tried to answer this, blood boiled in such a way that it would make me prejudiced, so I will be.

If you are here illegally then all you should get is a ticket home, nothing more.:mad:

Legal members of our community should get all the help they need.

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That makes two of us Less...I will have to go and lie down to control my blood pressure...there is steam coming out of my ears after reading this.

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It is time that Internment Camps were set up - like Australia has. Plenty of closed down military camps could be reopened, they were good enough for our servicemen/women so more than good enough for illegals. Macrahanish and St Kilda spring to mind as being eminently suitable, perhaps DinG could think of some others. All illegal emigrants should be incarcerated until a decision is made as to their status.

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With all those champagne socialists and second-home owning revolutionaries in London, who must have the odd bedroom if not entire house going spare, why are they not offering to take in all the displaced residents of Grenfell Tower, and saving the much-stressed public purse at the same time? :rolleyes:

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Well yes, a tempting idea, however as the advert says, give a man a fish he'll eat for a day, give him a net he'll eat for life, any illegal not willing to go home should be placed on some dismal island with a net and only allowed off when he's prepared to go to his legal home.

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Well labours day of rage went well, typical labour supported couldn't be bothered to show up ��������

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Send them to Guernsey then?

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How long have I been saying this? Not just about illegals, but those who pose a terror threat and those who are violent criminals...if they had something more relevant to concentrate on(like finding food and building shelter) then they would be far less likely to do damage to law abiding citizens.
As for human rights...well you only get them if you are human rather than humanoid. If you cannot demonstrate that you can live peacefully and sociably then this would be a sharp shock.

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All the hooha from the champagne socialists is just a form of humble bragging...trying to make out they are superior, that they care when in actual fact if any action is required they do bu99er all....and making a remake of Bridge over Troubled Water is not all that great. It raises their (the so called celebs profies) as much as it raises money. Publicity is good for them..it is the air they breathe.

Money is not the answer to everything,

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Think we should just send illegals and convicts to Australia like we used too

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whoa have we learned nothing from what happened the last time ?

they ended up with the better weather

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Missed the point. The first place I would go to if my house was burned down is my Insurance Company. Hopefully they would find me some accommodation. Would the Government give me £500.00 cash in hand, and then another £5000.00 into my bank account, I do not think so. Do you think the Local Authority would find me somewhere to live, well they might, but not straight away. People should take responsibility for themselves, and not expect the Local Authority to step in. They should have been insured.

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a couple on here have mentioned the point of them being insured or not. if they were renting the only form of insurance they needed was contents insurance. if they couldn,t be bothered with it as its not that expensive then tuff luck i say.

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Thing thats really annoying me is people like the pillock who is Londons Mayor saying illegals that lived in the block should be given amnesty, well sorry not from were i'm standing, "Illegal is Illegal" simple as:mad:

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I agree, but my point is these people are receiving a total of £5.500 because they only have the clothes there standing in

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I aint too bothered about that to be honest, many have also lost family members, but Illegals to me should get sod all, apart from deported.

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We will never no, legal or illegal, the Government are not going to check.

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The point is you don't know if these people were insured or not, you're assuming they weren't, if they did have insurance how long would it take to be paid out especially in a case like this where a large investigation is talking place? These people need immediate help & I can't believe anyone would begrudge them that & give it the 'i wouldn't get it so why should they'.
As Cashy has said, lots of them also lost loved ones in this tragedy - do you think any amount of money would help with that?
They have been offered this money to help with their immediate situation, which happened through no fault of their own, nowhere does it say they expected the authorities to give it to them - put yourself in their shoes, would you give it back & say no thank you - I doubt it!

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From what I read , it was reported that many of those were not insured.
My experience of insurance claims is that in situations like this the insurance companies(well, mine anyway) pay out a fixed amount to cover immediate needs of clothing and accommodation.

No amount of money can compensate them for their loss.
There was a lot of community support (not done by government, but by their community) to ensure that clothing was provided.

There has been a lot of political point scoring by some factions,the grief and misfortune was hijacked for political purposes.
To my mind this is despicable.
And then there was the 'anarchic 'Day of Rage' on Wednesday.
This was organised by the Justice by Any means Necessary.
What does that phrase avtually mean?
Does it mean that these young people(they were mainly students...but not very good students looking at the placards) were willing to break the law to get their own way?
Because that is not Justice.
These people were not showing 'solidarity' with those who lost family in the Grenfell Towers tragedy...they were political activists with only one aim in mind. Political destabilisation...at a time when things are already a bit rocky.
Someone should teach these people that if they sink the boat we are all in together...they will get wet too and some of them may drown.

The fact that the Labour party and Jeremy Corbyn did not put a stop to it...for no other reason than the police were already stretched...had their leave cancelled says much about this unwholesome political gang....because that is what they are...a gang.
No democracy in them at all.

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The point is they SHOULD have been

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In social housing of this nature, you should have to have contents cover and you should have to show that you have up to date insurance or your lease becomes invalid.

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Exactly

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Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, would be interesting if yours would change if you actually knew anyone who was involved but I'm not getting any further involved in this discussion, there's no point.

P.s. There's no need to shout to get your point across

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This London mayor that is putting his full support behind a Muslim housing association? He's nothing but a racist, time for him to go

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Yeh out of the U.K.

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not to add fuel to the fire but if a house or accommodation is part of a housing association there are special discounted insurance policies that tenants can get.I know this as i get full cover for £12 per month that covers me for accidental damage new for old and fore , theft etc

i could have gotten it even cheaper if i limited the value of my goods and so on soits not as though insurance is out of everyones reach in those flats but on the flip side there are some people to who £3 per week is 2 days electricity on the meter

what i do fing hard to swallow is this money been handed to illegal immigrants who shoudl be getting extradition papers not pay outs

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he can take that racist Abbot with him as well

she hates white people with a passion its staggering how it has become racist to point out she is an out right racist

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She didn't hate Jeremy Corbyn much though...she hopped into bed with him.

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thats not a pretty sight.

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No...you are right. I shut my imagination down on that one!

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Wurzel Gummidge & the Abbotpotamus, any fruit of that joining would've certainly been one of lifes downtrodden.

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she is also a hypocrite :D

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Well, they are a match then...on all counts.

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Wow 2 days, probably about 18 hours in this house :D

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as mi mum used to say

its a terraced house not a flippin light house

get them lights off

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maybe the council will feel sorry for your plight and give you some free electricity like they pay for people that are tricked in to buying electric cars under the guise of them been environmentally friendly ?

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Electric cars are more environmentally friendly than petrol/diesel cars but not as much as many will think.

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The cO2 that they save when driving they just make when they're being produced so they make no difference. You need a new battery every 3 years which can cost around 7 grand, they don't tell you the small print about electric cars

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still keeping my v6 and v8 vehicles plus my poluting old diesel car for stanley home games.

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3 years ? Which electric car needs a battery every 3 years ?

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Nissan Leaf, experts found out the battery would only last 3-5 years

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Come on, Shurm, you have/had a Leaf....
What's the truth?

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0.01% Failures, 3 Failures in Europe out of 35000 cars up to 2015. You've got an 8 year warranty on the battery anyway. Still got one had a few this ones in Stanley Red with the Stanley sticker in back window.

https://cleantechnica.com/2015/03/25...ill-operation/

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.

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Haven't noticed this one, still got your own name on the number plate?

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Not yet only just got it but will be on as soon as I get my flipping plates which are in the post :D

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So which experts were these then ? :D

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A new Leaf gets about 85 miles per charge (what is often called “up to 100 miles”). Some Leaf owners in hot-weather climates who drove a lot, nearly 20,000 miles a year, have found they’re only getting 60 or so miles per charge 12-14 months into the cars’ lives. Nissan says the “glide path” for a normal Leaf’s battery degradation is down to 70%-80% capacity after five years and about 70% after 10 years so these batteries may be getting old before their time. The issue is not minor: The manufacturing cost of the Leaf’s battery is around $15,000, so replacing the battery is half the cost of the car.

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What real world miles per charge are you getting please? Did you notice the range decrease with battery age or have you not had them long enough to notice?

I'm interested in electric cars but the UK isn't ready for them on a massive scale yet. We don't have enough charging points, don't have enough capacity in the national grid and many people don't have a drive or garage at home to charge them.

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this is England lad we will hook them up to the lamp posts to charge em :D:D

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i wonder how much it woudl cost to charge an electric car on a pay as you go meter

it seems to me everyone is on a different tarrif of payment even within the same company

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I get about 80-90 miles on a full charge Neil which I do at home once a week (cost £1.50-£2) but I could use the one in town which takes 20 minutes and was free but I think its £6-7 quid a month after a 6 month free trial. Every motorway services have the rapid chargers as well and some garages have them also. Places like the Trafford Centre have parking spaces and charge points.

There not for everyone I admit but I only do 4 mile to work and back so it suits us but the new leaf due out later this year is supposed to do 200 miles which I think will change things.

The cars seem expensive as a list price but people don't buy these cars outright brand new they will lease or put them on a pcp of some kind as its effectively renting but if you look into it you can get one as cheap monthly as say a small supermini.

Had one for 2 years which I've replaced didn't loose any bars on the battery state which it displays on the screen. You have a 8 year warranty on the battery anyway and servicing is cheap as no oil and filters to replace.

Volvo have just announced from 2019 all their cars will have some kind of electric motor whether it be hybrid or full electric.

It will come in time but my reason for having one is that its a cheap brand new car to drive if I'm honest I'm certainly no tree hugger :D.

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Sorry folks, but I'm not convinced that leccy cars are saviour of the planet, in fact I'd rate them as more damaging than diesel or petrol. Firstly the batteries have to be produced from raw products that are gathered from around the world.

Then there is their limited range in comparison with a diesel/petrol so they need to be "tanked" more often & where does this electric come from, not wind power as it's inefficient & unreliable, so you're back to coal/gas fired power stations or as most of UK's leccy comes from German & French sources you're looking at nuclear powered stations.

The electric motor is nowhere near as powerful as a diesel/petrol so the vehicle construction needs to be lightweight & strong so again you're looking at raised production costs for alloys & special materials whose production draws heavily on standard sources.

Nah, I'm one of your diesel gorillas me, so I'll be keeping my nasty, smelly, atmosphere polluting truck for the foreseeable future thank you very much!

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if government and environmentalists really did care about the planet they would be pushing hydrogen cars forward and investing in technology for them not electric cars

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i once saw an old person stranded when their electric scooter ran out of juice..

i knew there and then an electric car is not ever going to be an option

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When folk buy electric cars they do so because they have been bamboozled by the 'green' agenda.

They are salving their own consciences, deferring the consequences(if you believe the green agenda stuff)...and perhaps there is just a bit of 'humble bragging ' going on there too.
When will we see electric lorries delivering our bread and groceries...the answer to that is not while I am alive and breathing on this planet.
The green agenda is something dreamed up to make people pay more for resources.
There are some who would like to see the likes of you and me back in donkey carts...and then they would be quick to tell us that Donkey farts pollute the atmosphere, cause a hole in the ozone layer and the donkey muck clogs the drains and causes flooding in winter.

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Where do you plan to get the hydrogen from?

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In all honesty I can't see that being the answer either.

That would be my main question too.

I'm aware of grumblings here in Krautieland that they want to make the Country electric dominated by 2030. More pie in the sky to my mind as these guys quite succinctly explain.

Germany's plan for 100% electric cars may actually increase carbon emissions

That said though, I did notice while trundling round Bayern happily belching out clouds of diesel fumes from my owd jallopy a marked increase of "Tesla" elecy cars out & about (smug virtue signalling B'stards that they are).

Starting in at around £62,000 upto £130,000 (I could buy our thing three times over just at the starting price! :eek:) then only being able to travel for 250-300 miles (400-480 kms) before the thing is dead & in need of recharging & however long that takes.

No, neither use nor ornament in a Land the size of Germany, mind you travelling from here in Osnabruck down to the M.i.L's in Munich, about 680 kms would be spread over 2 days travelling ...... like they say, every cloud & all that! :s_aim1:

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Down here in Sheffield there is quiete a few petrol stations with hydrogen fuel pumps

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[QUOTE=

No, neither use nor ornament in a Land the size of Germany, mind you travelling from here in Osnabruck down to the M.i.L's in Munich, about 680 kms would be spread over 2 days travelling ...... like they say, every cloud & all that! :s_aim1:[/QUOTE]

What would be the beer consumption on such a trip - better than the car mpg?

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To clarify, there are no natural sources of Hydrogen on the planet so you have to extract it from something that contains it.

1) You could do on an industrial scale what you may have done at school, namely pass electricity through water. From one electrode you get Oxygen from the other you get Hydrogen but there are a couple of snags. Firstly its inefficient most of what you get is hot water so I suppose you could try to offset the cost by running a district heating business but to be non-seasonal it will have to be pretty far north. Secondly you have to use nearly clean water, completely clean is no good, its not conductive, cannot use sea water because the salt will break down into sulphuric acid and Chlorine, so another expense.

2) You could do what the only big Hydrogen plant in Europe does. First get a source of natural gas, either Methane and/or Ethane, use some of the gas to heat steam to 900 centigrade and mix it with some more of the natural gas in a retort at 900 C with some catalysts and pipe the output into a separation plant. In the separation plant you use more energy to seperate the hydrogen from the carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, water and a few other things that the process produced. Naturally you then have to find a use for the carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide you were trying to avoid in the first place.

So I ask again where are you going to get the Hydrogen? The engine is great but the fuel (production of) is about as bad as you can get, not really a surprise the original suggestion came from the Texas oil industry as a way of staying in business with petrol and diesel becoming ‘un-friendly’.

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See, you learn something new every day on this site. :)

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Hydrogen is in the air, all we need to do is to find a way of harnessing it, would lead to cleaner air and a new source of fuel

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Sorry but that is not the case. Air from sea level up to 10km is Nitrogen (78%), Oxygen (20%), Argon (1%), Carbon dioxide (0.04%), water (0.001% - 5%), Neon, Helium and Methane (all less than 0.002%). To find any Hydrogen at all you have to get up to 700km above sea level where small quantities are exchanged with the solar wind (and you have to keep ducking to avoid passing satellites). Hydrogen is far to reactive to exist freely in the air at sea level.

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Here are 10 gases that make up clean air: In order of highest to lowest concentration they are Nitrogen, Oxygen, Argon, Carbon dioxide, Neon, Helium, Methane (CH4), Krypton, Hydrogen, and Xenon. There is small quantities of hydrogen in the air at sea level, 1 out of 2,000,000 atoms/molecules of air is hydrogen

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if i,d that sort of money to spend keighley would have a red ferrari on the road and be parked up down livingstone road every fortnight and sod the fuel consuption.

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Nobody in their right mind would consider a resource at 0.000005% availability as a recoverable asset. Recovery costs would probably be in excess of £100,000/litre.

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Actually a quick calculation suggests the cost would be of the order of £1,600,000/litre and that assumes you have a market for all the liquid Nitrogen, Oxygen ... Neon etc you would produce allong the way. Its in the same ball park as considering recovering Gold from the Gold dust in the air.

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I am pretty sure that over the years some clever folk have formulated fuels that are more environmentally friendly and the rich oil producing countries have got wind of it and put a stop to it.

We have a country that is surrounded by the sea...we have tides twice a day...regular as clockwork, but yet we blight our countryside with ugly inefficient wind turbines that blight the lives of those who live in the vicinty(a constant low hum, disrupted electrical signals etc).
Now I know that the job of engineering the mechanics to enable tidal power would present some difficulties...but surely these can be overcome knowing that this is truly environmentally friendly...and is a constant source of power....where wind turbines are not. The wind does not always blow...it does not always blow from the right direction and if it is too windy the damn things have to be turned off.
Very effective - NOT!

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Margaret, you are quite right about extracting energy from the sea. It is a formidable engineering challenge and one that might have been a much better use of the £70B or so that is being spent on HS2. What is needed is a properly financed and directed research program extending over quite a few years, not the current situation where it is left to under-financed entropeneurs working on their own pet schemes. The big money is going into wind farms and the like simply because its an easy technology with safe returns.

In fact the whole energy situation is riddled with un-coordinated fads and fancies on a grand scale with lots of ridiculous undesirable side effects.

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You can run cars on poo, and coffee and used fat, there is a lot of better possibilities than electric, at least with used fat your car will smell of chips or chicken as your driving

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Yes, I understand it is easy technology with safe returns, but that is not the remit.
The remit is to produce environmentally friendly energy that is renewable...and of course it is not a bit of good if this energy is as unreliable as the wind.
I am of the opinion that the roll out of smart meters is just so that energy companies can terminate a supply remotely if the need should arise....like when the time comes that there is just not enough to go around.
I am also very incomfortable with the fact that our energy supplies lay in the hands of foreigners.
Our energy companies should always be in British hands.