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If governments were really serious about renewable environmentally friendly energy sources then they would be having photovoltaic panels fitted to all new houses being built so that they could generate thier own electricty and any left over goes to the national grid....and those older houses that wanted to fit enegy panels would qualify for a grant to do this.
Anything over capacity generated would just go to the national grid(nothing paid to the owner of the house - if you got a grant to install the panels then this is your payback)
The cost of electricity might then fall and everyone would benefit.
Now, wouldn't that be great?

That is why I see this green agenda as being one big con...with the aim of taking money from our pockets for ridiculous schemes

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You are right to consider that there is a plan behind the smart meters but its not to simply switch you off when there is not enough to go round. Its a bit more subtle than that. Smart meters can be made to talk to your ‘smart’ appliances such as your fridge, washing machine, car, vacuum cleaner etc., so that your house can participle in the smoothing out of peak supply demands. For example your fridge could be switch off during the advert breaks in Coronation Street to compensate for the kettle you switched on to make a cuppa, ditto the charging circuit in your battery powered vacuum cleaner. More subtle is the things it can do with your electric car which contains a big battery. During times of very high demand power could be taken from your car and fed into the grid and (hopefully) put back later before you go out in it. This of course is true for all things which have a big battery. Ever wondered why solar panel setups contain a battery and the facility to put power into the grid, its not just for the convenience of the house holder! Thats the future, its not quite there yet but its moving in that direction and is very much the plan that certain people want to implement.

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I do not have any appliances that use smart technology(and possibly never will have such items)....and I won't be having a smart meter either.
The smart meter is nothing to do with making improvements for the customer, but everything to do with benefits to the utility company.

As for the large batteries in the PV solar panels, I thought these were for storing electricty during times when there is little/no light(at night...though even street lights would provide a little bit of power).

As to my previous post. I know that the government had a system of grants for householders to fit solar panels....and that they would get something back for any electricty which went to the national grid....but in 2016(I think) the tariff for this feed in was cut by 84%.
This was later changed to 67%....so it meant that fewer people took up the offer.

If all homes that were suitable were offered grants...actively by mail shots.....but the terms and conditions were that no money was paid to the homeowner for the excess electricty produced...then surely those homes which were unsuitable for the scheme would benefit by a fall in the cost of their power.

Now I know that these panel are delicate and home insurers would probably make mileage on this so let's have the government sponsor the insurance for such homes.

It will never happen because the governments(of all persuasions) are not serious about clean energy.

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Margaret, don't think Britain, think Global. Britain isn't the best place for solar panels. I'm not saying they don't work just that in many other places, like say Italy or Florida they work much better. Any way its easier to 'persuade' people to buy electric cars. The real trick is to get lots of battries out there, it doesn't matter what they are in, all that matters is their storage. Get that storage and you don't have to build more big pump storage schemes like those in Scotland and Wales. Have a little look at the musings of Tesla's Elon Musk and his various companies press releases.

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I guess it depends on the type of Solar panels.
you can generate power from any light...OK so the climate here is not the best but even on winter days there is still a level of light which would generate some power...and it would be as efficient as the current sources which are deemed clean.
I know a little about the work of Nikola Tesla...but I will look at what you suggested.

There is no doubt in my mind that there needs to be a wider consideration of option for producing energy....but I do not swallow the green agenda that we are being fed.

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Ah...got it you were referring to the TESLA 3 electric vehicle, rather than the work of the genius Nikolas Tesla.

And i thought I had heard the name Elon Musk before...he was the guy who started PayPal (I think).

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I'm glad it aint just me that dont swallow that "Green" crap.

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Very small scale used fat is ok but not enough for us all to use. I ran my car of new vegetable oil for a few months several years ago. It was smoother and quieter at low revs with slightly less power at motorway speeds. We can't grow enough for that to be a viable solution either.

When they smell of chips it's not a nice smell

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Maybe a decendent involved or maybe just honouring the legacy, don't know. I've not come across any other people with that name.

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You have never written (or spoken) a truer few words.

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I do not think I am alone in these thoughts.
How is it we can put a man on the moon, but yet getting over petrol/diesel driven transport is beyond us?

When thinking of transport we need to consider the movement of goods.
Can you see large container lorries being powered by electric?
No - neither can I.
And then there is the thorny problem of disposing of the many worn out batteries over the years.
These are not small things to dispose of....so where do they go?

All of these things should be being investigated...as should ALL alternative forms of powering our domestic and industrial needs.
That is, of course, unless we really want to go back to the stone age.

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Here is some very interesting information about this genius..he was ahead of his time.
Just in case you are interested.
Accyweb where education comes to you.
Nikola Tesla - Inventions - HISTORY.com

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McDonald's run all there lorises on reused fat from their resteraunts, I don't see how it can't be brought in on a mass scale, or make cars steam powered and run them on water

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We can't grow enough sunflower or whatever oil you chose for every car in the world to run on.

How would you heat the water to produce the steam?

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Pass an electrical charge through the water to heat it up

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That is how to produce Hydrogen and you would also get Oxygen as a by-product.

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This is not the first discussion on transport that has ended up going round in circles! ;)

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Never ending supply of hydrogen. Sea levels are rising, heat that up and we'll get hydrogen, more oxygen in the atmosphere, and more salt to put on the roads all while reducing sea levels, global warming solved

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I believe the expression is "Reinventing the wheel" ;)

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I didn't think you could use sea water to produce hydrogen.
The salt breaks down into sulphuric acid and chlorine...but if you know different then I am ready to be educated.

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Bio-fuel, is what you're talking about here. Quite some years ago the Germans decided to reduce reliance on pure diesel & started producing Bio-diesel & mixing it with traditional diesel at about 7%, there was uproar & no one would touch it, even the ADAC (RAC equivalent) condemned it as it would cause numerous problems with older vehicles the main one gumming up injectors & damaging engines.

Now we're x years down the line & Germany are pushing the green agenda, the % of bio-diesel mixed with normal diesel is now 10% & there's no way of avoiding it, the vehicles are better equipped to deal with the mixture & everything is just hunky dory in "Mutti's" little world.

Only problem is, that to produce the quantities required & demanded by the German governments "Targets", vast swathes of countryside have been turned over to growing maize & rape to be turned into bio-fuel for use within the reich. All well & good but that is then land that's not producing food for the populace so more imports are required to feed the masses & thereby raising cost ..... and so the cycle goes on.

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That article is from 2015....and it stated that this was still in the experimental stage.
Is there any further information on what this method of obtaining hydrogen costs.
For it to be a viable proposition it needs to be economical...somehow I doubt that this is the case right now.
That is not to say that further developments in the future may not make it a viable proposition...in fact it would be good if that were the case.

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https://m.phys.org/news/2016-05-elec...-hydrogen.html

2016, it's the future of power turning sea water into hydrogen fuel

In the future, we plan to work on developing a method for the low-cost, large-scale production of H2O2 from seawater," Fukuzumi said. "This may replace the current high-cost production of H2O2 from H2 (from mainly natural gas) and O2

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An interesting writeup on a device I had not previously come across. However lab prototypes do not always successfully scale up to be useable as industrial processes. Also I note that it makes no mention of how much energy you have to put in to make it work, the lifetime of the electrodes, the nature and quantity of any residual products, any of these could be big stumbling blocks as is often the case.

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you cant use bio diesel in new cars but its nothing to do with the new engines its that the designers changed how the filters work so on newer cars they get clogged up with bio diesel

i think there is an additive you can get to help the problem but im not sure it works in the newer cars

or you could just buy red diesel from the dodgy bloke at the dodgy garage and hope not to get caught lol

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https://m.phys.org/news/2016-05-elec...-hydrogen.html

A more detailed article into it

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Looks like I should have included the phrase 'traditional electrolysis of water' in my previous post. Obviously been retired for too long and not keeping up to date. However the currently available hydrogen fuel is being manufactured in 'traditional' ways and that is silly, better to burn the natural gas directly and avoid wasting the energy needed to turn it into hydrogen.

Tucked away at the bottom of the page of one the previous references is the following link to a very interesting development. Admittedly only the first step to half of a problem but a very good first step. Needs to overcome the already noted problems and an equivalent development for the other half of the reaction but if it can be made to work and scale up could be very very good.

https://m.phys.org/news/2016-02-scie...-reaction.html

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It is amazing the things you can learn on here.

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[QUOTE=accyman;1197191]you cant use bio diesel in new cars but its nothing to do with the new engines its that the designers changed how the filters work so on newer cars they get clogged up with bio diesel

i think there is an additive you can get to help the problem but im not sure it works in the newer cars

a lot of problems have occured over the last few years with the use of diesel. a few years due to the introduction of ago BMW diesel cars had a big problem with their fuel pumps having failures due to a lot of additives being taken out of the fuel to make it what they call cleaner. advised owners to put an additive in when re fueling. i always do this using a millers product.{other ones are available**. does what it says on the can. not many diesels even older ones can be run with success on old chip oil without damage. know some who have but not for a long time.

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I've used bio diesel as well from a local producer but I ran a Xantia of almost pure veg oil with a little diesel to thin it down a bit. The problem is the viscosity at lower temperatures so it was a summer experiment only. You can run straight veg oil all the time but you need to heat it to thin it which is a faff and I didn't want to take it that for by adding heat exchangers etc.

One problem with bio in older cars is that it can cause problems with seal used, newer diesels use different materials not affected by the bio diesel.

Some bio diesel isn't as green as people think, most is a methyl ester made using methanol which comes from the petrochemical industry. An ethyl ester made from ethanol is greener as long as you make your ethanol by fermentation and not petrochem

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Eh,translation needed

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Agree whats all this to do with Exit Polls?:confused:

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As usual the vagaries of AW led us off on a tangent about alternative fuels & power sources, possibly worth a thread of its own. Still as the bold Cashy pointed out we're off topic .... so, to bring things back round again.

It seems the whiners & ne'er do wells (Corpy-bin, the Wee ginger Tom & jumped up Jones) are after kissing eu arse by presenting their individual cases ref Brexit but "Big bad Barnier" has fobbed them off or so he says, who knows what the truth is, time will tell no doubt.

Brexit news - Michel Barnier gives update on progress of negotiations with EU | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

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From what I have seen today he needs to take Whistling Lessons.

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Must be part of the job application specifics (along with being ignorant) for a labour politico, as marvellously demonstrated by Wolverhampton South Wests latest labour darling!

Labour MP: England's Black Country Flag Is 'Racist', Should Be Replaced with 'Multicultural Rainbow'

And all this in Enochs old stamping ground, my how the times have changed.

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Typically Stupid no wonder many have left Labour.:rolleyes::mad:

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It worries this MP because she is a black person( I thought we had changed this to a 'person of colour')...How very sad that this is something that she has at the forefront of her worries.
I can assure her that we have a lot of things in this country to be worried about...and that flag is definitely NOT one of them.

cynical baggage that I am...I think this is more about raising her profile than any issues to do with a flag.

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Yes indeed how typical, our blacks greys, greens and browns, what we call mixed race and plenty of others, put up with far more than the style of a flag.

WE are people of many races, we understand that we are all different but exist in our communities as best we can, this complaining misery isn't helping, she is dividing our communities by complaining about something that really doesn't matter.

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People actually voted to make her home secretary

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Which people?

I thought such positions were awarded in cabinet re-shuffles by the P.M. and his/her illadvisers?

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Who voted to make who Home secretary Neil?

The woman in question is a Labour MP...so she sould not be Home Secretary...Shadow Home secretary maybe(for all the good that does).

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If Labour had got in she would have been home secretary. Many people didn't vote Labour because they didn't want Jeremy Corbyn to he PM, same thing

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Ah, that makes it clearer.
But was she the Shadow Home Secretary before the election?
If she was then it is a feasible argument...but if not, then we could not have known who would have been Home Secretary.

I think when people vote in a general election, they have two things on their minds.
1) who they can vote for that will do the best for their own area.
2) who will be the PM of their choice.

I have never heard of anyone voting for a party so that the person of their choice is Home Secretary.
In fact I bet most people could not name the current Home Secretary let alone the Shadow Home Secretary.

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Its utter rubbish what hes saying,:rolleyes:

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Yes Cashy....I am sure you are right...but he's a Mod and I was just being diplomatic.
Do you think I have left it too late for a career in the diplomatic service? :)

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Well yeh certainly aint got the diplomatic background i possess margaret.:D

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spot on Cashy...but I would make a very good apprentice...eager to learn and costs nowt.

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Well I thought it was bollox and my career in diplomacy has no chance of getting through it's infancy.

He's a mod yes, but he commented as a person, his personal comments can be agreed with or treated as flim flam if that is what they are.

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Less, as usual you are right...but I am always wary of even the most mild mannered Mods...and treat them with due deference.(who knows, they might have had a bad day and be looking for someone to vent their spleen on. I don't want it to be me)
But in my mind I can think what I like.
Yes, it was flimflam

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Oh if i think its utter crap i usually say so, matters not 1 jot to me who it is, they can say the same to me if they think so.;)

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Yes Cashy, I know ;)

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It now transpires that Jeremy Corbyn promised to wipe out Student debt and abolish tuition fees without knowing the cost of this promise.
He admitted as much on the Andrew Marr show yesterday morning.
How irresponsible of a man who wanted to be the prime minister of this country...thank goodness he did not get into power.
Lord knows what damage he would have done to the inaccessible of the country with his promises.
Personally I think he knew that it was not feasible, but was keen to gather type votes those who have not had enough experience of life.
Those who have not yet grown their cynical bone...young folk!
And to the many young people who fell for this spiel.
You have been taught a vital lesson in life. If something sounds too good to be true...then it usually is 'too good to be true'.

Now, let me get back to taking my anti cynical pills.

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As i have said before,these young idiots are exactly the same as i and many were at that age, "Know it all. But know Nowt"

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Corbyns lies have resulted in a weakened Government.and this is the last thing we needed at this point in time.
Teresa May is going to have to be more assertive, come out and tell the British people what she intends to do.
We should get out of the EU as quickly as possible, on OUR terms.

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I just hope those who actually voted twice are prosecuted, will be poetic justice for believing a pack of lies.

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I think it is highly unlikely that they will be..But we can live in hope.

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My iPad writes what it wants...I should have proof read what it had written before posting.(I was being hurried by himself...and posted without checking)
Above are the corrections to my post.

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It should be impossible to vote twice, we have the technology to prevent it but our voting system is stuck in the past. It's the 21st century and you can cast your vote without having to ID yourself

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I take my voting card along with me to the polling station...that should be enough.
These students who voted twice would have had a voting card for their home address and one for their student location...but they should only be able to use one of these.
That said...Nick Clegg thinks that youngsters votes should be weighted to be worth more that the votes of older people...that's democratic(NOT)

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I have to admit, I have never taken a voting card to a polling station

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I would say the past few times that I have voted, there has been a strange look when I only given my name and address. You don't think that I look so old that they have not challenged me. no no that cannot be the reason why.

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Yes, I quite agree, but the only way to prevent double voting & various other fraudulent activities is .... registration & personal ID, be that finger print scan, retinal scan or ID issued from a central office with your unique number & all linked to a central records office.

Fakes & forgeries would be picked up straight away when scanned as they wouldn't be on the database! But, as soon as you mention any of the above as a way of securing our society & its running you are immediately stonewalled & confronted with the frothing civil liberties & human rights acolytes bleating ad nausea!

And if not the usual suspects, there are also those among the populace who really don't want these measures for whatever their reasons are. But if absolute security is what you're wanting ..... well sooner or later folk will have to accept the above choices or we'll still be in the same rut x years down the line complaining about the same issues!

:bangh8:

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I've no real objection to some form of I.D. so long as if, when the Government introduces it then I shouldn't have to send in money to obtain that I.D. that is just another form of tax.

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OH NO...NOT the ID thing again!

I am not entering into this debate.
I have said my piece about ID....nothing has changed that makes me re-evaluate my position.

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Sic vita est! ;)

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Yes Son...such is life.
And I am NOT changing!
Accyweb where you can get lessons in Latin(although the rules DO forbid the use of foreign language posts)

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Quite, but you'll find Latin is prevalent throughout the English language, especially legaleese ergo lays within the parameters of our native tongue ad hoc its usage. Hence this A.M, (Anti Meridiem), I've chosen to highlight certain phrases to show their inextricable link with our modern English i.e. (Id est) our use of certain terms.

Did not our very own "Lizzie Windsor" not so long ago use the term "Annus horribilis". In an address to us her loyal British subjects? :)

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Yes...and having been in the medical profession I have been exposed to, aware of and been guilty of using the said language.
I actually like to see it written and hear it. It has a regality(not sure if I made that word up) to it.
I used to go to Church with my Ma and sit through Sunday Mass...in Latin, with my missal open showing the Latin responses in red.

Anyone who was taught Latin at school should consider themselves very lucky as it is the basis of understanding words and their meanings.

That said, I think I was once taken to task for using it on the forum because of the foreign lingo rules. I did not make them, but I DO try(and sometimes fail)to abide by them.

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And if not the usual suspects, there are also those among the populace who really don't want these measures for whatever their reasons are. But if absolute security is what you're wanting ..... well sooner or later folk will have to accept the above choices or we'll still be in the same rut x years down the line complaining about the same issues!

agree with this I.D. issue. only those who have something to hide or the lefties seem really down on the idea. the only downside would be if it was against the law not to carry it all the time. for someone like me who carries nothing around with me except the cash i need it could be more than a problem. i,d probebly forget it as many times as a set off without my stanley season ticket.
as for latin you can keep it.

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Well, I have nothing to hide...and I am not a despicable leftie..But I do not want an I D card.
I have explained why in posts for a long time.
I have no evidence that makes me want to change my mind.
If crims can fake other documents then they will fake these lucratively.
ID cards rely on them being carried by everyone and being subject to scrutiny.
I have seen how the border forces work at passport points in airports...not much scrutiny is given to these documents.

As for Latin, it is a language that helps you to understand the roots of words.
It was the language of learning in the dim and distant past, but has relevance in legal and medical circles who still use many Latin terms. Many Latin abbreviations are used in our own language, and if you have learned latin, then many other language doors are easier to open.

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Here is a link to one of the threads...perhaps you might like to peruse it.
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...y-47273-4.html
And here is a link to a more recent one.
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...rds-69186.html

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Being taught at a catholic grammar, I had Latin rammed down my throat!!

Although, 60 plus years later, apart from Hic Haec Hoc, (not even sure that is correct!), all I can remember is Cashy's tagline, NLTBGYD!

Roughly translated as :
Non illeggitimae carborundum
(Never let the barstewards grind you down!)

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The government should be happy to foot the bill for increased security and all the other anti fraud type benefits ID cards would bring. I'd like it to contain your driving licence as well so we don't have to pay for that and carry 2 cards.

They could use personal ID numbers linked to car insurance policies so the Police know exactly who is insured to drive a car.

Technology can be a good thing

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If you can trust the government to protect your information.
technology is a tool and a tool that is sharp is a boon, but a tool that is not what it should be,is dangerous even in skilled hands.
It seems that criminals are better at technology than governments are.

Neil, I do not see how our personal security will be increased or improved. Those who have criminal intent will just not carry ID cards....or will clone ID cards of innocent people.(if someone can somehow clone your information and add THEIR biometric details, then you really are done for....how then will you,prove that you are the real you?)

When there is some mechanism by which this problem can be overcome, then that will be a step forward.

The other question is... how are the I D cards to be policed....or perhaps that is not quite the right word. There is no point in having something if no one ever scrutinises it.

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Tell me about it, I have to have a Photo Drivers licence, Photo Drivers card for HGV's, Photo medical card, "Aufenhaltserlaubnis papers" (legal registration to live & work in Germany) & carry my passport to verify who & what I am! :eek:

A single all inclusive card would be nice.

Re: Exit Polls
 

You and I have had to carry numerous ID cards throughout our adult lives - I also had one as a child. A couple or so Units I had to carry out work at required more than one ID - never had a problem with them at all.

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The best I.D. I ever had was when I was self employed, for some reason one site I was working on wouldn't let anyone on unless they had a card with photo issued by the tax office.
I spent hours (and money) getting it issued.
They looked at it once!
Years later I went to sign on the dole, 'have you proof of identity?'.
Yes I replied and brought out that card.
'That's no good' came the reply, 'we don't accept anything from the tax office, do you have your birth certificate?'.

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a similar thing with me when i returned from living in Spain, i was asked for I.D. and all i had with me was my Spanish Residencia card with photo and signature on, i was told we dont accept that.its issued by the Spanish Government says i, no matter we dont accept.:rolleyes:

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the problem with showing I.D. if required is that not all people have a driving licence or a passport. can cause problems for people. my ex wife always had a problem due to this. everyone thinks everyone has one or both which is a lazy assumption.

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I no longer have a passport...but recently had to get one of the photo driving licences...anyone looking at that picture would be hard pressed to recognise me.
I have never, ever been asked for ID.
I carried ID all through my career...was never asked to produce it once.
I visited many departments in our local hospital and in others too. Not once did anyone ever ask me to prove who I was.
This is the problem with ID cards...why have them if they are never scrutinised?

Perhaps at some point in the future all babies will be microchipped...this is not such a ludicrous idea as there is currently a company in the US that has offered microchipping to its workers and 50 of the 60 people employed have accepted this. Makes me shudder at some of the implications, but there you are.
It would not do for us all to think the same way.(I have, over the years,developed a very strong level of cynicism and suspicion)