Re: Council get something right!!
 

Out of curiosity I calculated the last week in Feb Ob and the week following and in column cm it was [Feb 27] 80 CON 11 LAB [Mar 5] 181 CON 80 LAB.[/QUOTE]
I would love to see more stories from the opposition's point of view. I imagine at times Labour would have far more to say than the Cons, so use that! Rant and rave a bit, have a go at the Cons' policies! Dig the dirt for us! It's the councillors who have the power, not us in most cases!

Re: Council get something right!!
 

What newspapers have no power!!!!!!! what about the slagging off and lies that a certain Accy Observer has done to Stanley over the season and picked up and used in the LET did anyone on those papers check facts or did they just use a headline to sell more papers.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

"What newspapers have no power!!!!!!! what about the slagging off and lies that a certain Accy Observer has done to Stanley over the season and picked up and used in the LET did anyone on those papers check facts or did they just use a headline to sell more papers."

Now there speaks a Stanley fan!
I was saying that the councillors have more power than US, not more power than newspapers!
I repeat, "It's the councillors who have the power, not us in most cases!"

That is why I feel more councillors should take part in a forum like this, where the real views of members of the public can get their views aired without interruption .

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Let's face it chaps, neither The Accrington Observer and Times nor The Lancashire Evening Telegraph are renowned for investigative journalism, fair and balanced reporting or factual accuracy.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Fairs fair though, they do try their best. I seem to remember the LET reporting from ground zero New York, and from france when a Blackburn woman was murdered a few years ago.
Now, I have lived in Preston, and the LET and Observer keep our local council bods far more 'in check' than the Preston paper, the evening post.
But like I said, it's up to us to change things! See you at the next full council or cabinet meeting. I will share my megaphone!

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Residents in the Ribble Valley have got a thousand name petition against the panopticon to be sited at Kemple End near Stoneyhurst College. Countryside by quango, Who wants it?

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Wow, what an interesting thread.

Been offline for a few days, taken me about an hour just to read it!!

Nothing useful to add, other than to thank all contributors for such an interesting read!
Especially Graham for his sometimes candid comments... wish we had more councillors like him, whatever their political persuasion.... I'll certainly question more closely those guys that come canvassing in next few weeks, rather than, as normally, just try to get rid of them so I can get back to the telly!!
Hope that Graham has time to be a regular participant on here.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Actually I`ve been looking at the panopticon design for Kemple End. It`s a stone wall with a lens in it. Now imagine this at the height of summer on tinder dry moorland, with the suns rays focussed on the surrounding grass.... Do these people use there brains or is "Art" the be all and end all?

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Na, these people are clever designers, they'd have thought about all that, the lens will automatically turn away from the sun
:rofl38: :rofl38: :rofl38: :rofl38: :rofl38:
sorry !!

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Not if it`s built into a wall it won`t!!

Re: Council get something right!!
 

I think that you will find that the majority of "these people" are not in fact artists at all. Like Chris Beard the originator of the grass humps planned for the Coppice, they are architects and landscapers. And while the Royal Academy may insist that Architects take an equal place alongside Artists in their Summer Exhibitions, I am sure that none of could mistake the product of one for the other. Unless of course you knew nothing at all about the subject (unlikely) or you were the NWRDA or Midpennine Arts.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Well its time to make an apology to the Observer - Jon! :). This week they actually printed some of the alternative views on things on a town from a political/resource/positive ideas perspective.

[As opposed to the wardens article when the lead story and huge pic was the human interest story of some lady challenging Tony Blair and later in the story a small bullet point representing more importantly some serious alternative proposals/views.]

An honest debate is to be welcomed and will be a major step forward for the town as I mentioned b4. [instead of celebrity for a day journailm]

Progress comes via different [and informed] opinions, not just one person. I say things that are wrong [not intentionally] but without a wide opinion, bad ideas go unchecked.

Anyway being doing some research on funding [government funding to HBC] makes interstinjg reading:


Govt increases in funding year by year [66% of income]:
Labour Government siince 1997.

1999 3.1%,
2000 4.5%,
2001 4.2%,
2002 3.0%,
2003 9.4%,
2004 0.5% & £500,000 Housing Benefit recalulation [approx 6%]
2005 6.2%

Council Tax Rise [33% of income]
[Conservatives is control except 2002-2003]
1999 4.5%, [Lab pass budget, Con win election]
2000 0.0%, [Con budget]
2001 7.9%, [Con]
2002 2.8%, [Con set budget, lose election]
2003 3.9%, [Lab set budget, lose election]]
2004 3.9%, [Con]
2005 5.0%, [Con]
**Council Housing is a totally seperate matter and not relevant to other expenditure.

TOTAL COUNCIL EXPENDITURE COUNCIL TAX + GOVT GRANT
[*quoted directly from Councils Med Term Fin. Strategy Doc]
? Post “Capping”.
Since 1999, net expenditure has started to rise as restrictions on spending have been lifted. 2003/2004 saw the introduction by central government of a new method of allocating resources to local authorities, and the effective abolition of the SSA. The following table shows the General Fund net budget over the past five years:-

Year Net Expenditure (£m) Increase (%)
1999/2000.......9,885.......3.8
2000/2001.......10,226.......3.4
2001/2002.......10,780.......5.4
2002/2003.......11,127.......3.2
2003/2004.......11,889.......6.8
2004/2005.......12????.......5.5??
2005/2006.......12.8m?

Council Debts [excluding Council Housing]
****** need the proper figures again.

1999 -
2000
2001
2002
2003
2004
2005

Inflation [Offical Consumer Price Index]
1999...104.8
2000...105.6
2001...106.9
2002...108.3
2003...109.8
2004...111.2
2005...[inflation = +2%]

Retail Price Index Including House Prices
1999...1.5
2000...3.0
2001...1.8
2002...1.7
2003...2.9
2004...3.0
2005...2.0%?

RPI excluding house prices
1999...1.7
2000...1.5
2001...1.5
2002...1.4
2003...1.7
2004...1.2
2005...1.0%?

Looking for these figures....
In 2000-2006? HBC £20m SRB grant
Plus From 2002-2008 - £8m NRF funding?
Plus ERDF £m?
Plus NWDA £m?
Plus Engish Partnerships £m?
Plus ODPM Elevate 2004-2007 £12m

2000-2002
In the last two years [up to 2002] Hyndburn residents have benefited from the following successful bids and allocations: -
? SRB 6 - £8m
? Sure Start - £5m
? European Regional Development Fund, Objective 2 , Priority 2 - £2.3m
? Neighbourhood Renewal Fund - £2.91m

2002-2005
In the last two years [up to 2002] Hyndburn residents have benefited from the following successful bids and allocations: -
? SRB 6 - £3.15m
? Sure Start - £?m [set to expand no of centres]
? European Regional Development Fund, Objective 2 , Priority 2 - £1.1m
? Neighbourhood Renewal Fund - £3.9m
? ELEVATE [2004-2006] - £11.5m

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Thanks for that Graham. With the consistent above inflation increases in Govt. funding and Council Tax increases and with the amounts coming in, in grants and allocations, one wonders how the council has managed to get itself into such a financial mess.

Extrapolate the figures that Graham has given over the remainder of the "30 years of service to the community" that HBC are so proud of and you really begin to wonder!

Why is there apparently so little to show for the hundreds of millions of pounds which must have flowed into the borough since it's inception?

Re: Council get something right!!
 

I think the real question is, how bad would it be without these extra millions of pounds!!??

Re: Council get something right!! - NOT THIS TIME
 

You know, I think the Council might have got it wrong on this one. I was at the meeting and the Panopticon scheme started to make a lot of sense to me. They were on about investing in the town, restoring some pride and being a really good thing for the area. Plus, they said that the design that the paper's been using isn't the final design, so they're still working on it. It's worth staying a bit open minded yet. If you went to the meeting you'll know all about it but if you didn't go you can't really talk from an informed position. I'd say yes to it myself.

Re: Council get something right!! - NOT THIS TIME
 

Re: Council get something right!! - NOT THIS TIME
 

It wasn't like that. But you wouldn't know that if you weren't there... or were you?

Re: Council get something right!! - NOT THIS TIME
 

Re: Council get something right!! - NOT THIS TIME
 

The initial £50k is investment in the town. It will be local contractors that get the contract to do the work so money in local people's pockets. But that's small fry compared to the rest of the money that they're applying for. In Rossendale they've been given an extra £300k to do pathways, disabled access, picnic tables etc - again money that will go to local companies to do the work. They're also looking at getting some English Heritage money to tidy up the monument. Plus, that doesn't take into account the amount of promotion Accrington will get on the back of it - could bring in new businesses and some good shops. Another thing to think about - if people come to visit it, they might want to have a cup of tea somewhere in town.

Re: Council get something right!! - NOT THIS TIME
 

The initial £50k is investment in the town,.............. where do they plan this investment, what area of accrington?
It will be local contractors that get the contract..............which contract?
Could it be that the initial £50k would be for work on the coppice, and that this work will be given to local contractors, hence their initial £50k is investment in the town............clever stuff ;)

Re: Council get something right!!
 

From what I understood, there are 6 panopticon things in total and they have each been given a budget of 50k, (for the construction). That 50k will be paid to some company, (maybe split between 2 or 3), to build it. Not bad for a starter......

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Rumour on the grapevine is the Tories at the next cabinet in April will do a u-turn and vote yes for the Panopticon [with reservations], which was the Labour position 6 months ago.

The chatter about Saturday [in the Ivory Tower Scaitcliffe] is that there where few desenters of the 40 attendees and nearly all 40 were positive by the end. Following yes votes at recent community groups and a possible yes at the Huncoat Area Council tomorrow and Yes at Peel & Barnfield Area Council next month local views seem to be changing dramatically provided Mr Beard dicthes the humps and comes up with something Accrington.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Ah but, you said investment in the town, that's not the case is it.
"That £50k will be paid to some company".......could be any company, from Manchester or where ever, again no direct investment in accrington

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Well having heard what Mr Beard said on Saturday, i think they want us to vote yes for the IDEA of a panopticon, not the actual nuts and bolts design.
Once they have a yes they can go back to the drawing board over and over until they find something the people want. Mr Beard hinted the idea of hills was not even on the drawing board any more...

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Re: Council get something right!!
 

I think that the position is this, a reserved yes vote. Reserved on the design and reserved on funding actually being available. And I think that will be the Cabinet position on 21 April if 'the rumours are to be believed'?! IE it gets an amber light not a green one.

Had to use that cos apparently the traffic light system is vogue!!!!???

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Let's just hope if it did get the go ahead, they don't use the same contractors they used for the paving on the Boulevard of Broken Dreams.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Well amber is better than red! At least it shows the agreement to the principles of regeneration. I agree actually, and even though I now support the scheme I'm still reserving judgement on the actual design. From what I understand it can't go over budget because there simply isn't any more money available, although I suppose if it did go over they'd have to go back for more funding. It still couldn't come from the council because there isn't the money there to even pay for the picnic tables, is there?

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Seems there is quite a lot of words in "vogue" the likes of "cascade" down to, and one relating to email, which for the life of me I can't think what it was, were all buss words used by my former boss, they had been " cascaded" down to him from above :cool:
All this is well and good, reserved on the design etc. but who pays in the end...............the punter (meaning us)

Re: Council get something right!!
 

HeHe have heard that so many times :rofl38: :rofl38: :rofl38: :rofl38:
So what happens then :confused: Do they stop the project :confused:
Lets get this right, who pays in the end, no not the council, but you and I and everyone else.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

We pay so much to the Government in taxes that it sounds quite nice for them to give a bit back to the town. So yeah, you can argue that we pay in the end but at least they're giving us some of it back. And all right it would be nice if we could have extra for hospitals or something like that but that's not our decision. This money is being given to the town for this purpose and this purpose alone. Turn it down if you want but ultimately we (the people of Accrington) lose out.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Re: Council get something right!!
 

No it will go to the Panopticon. We were told that it's for this purpose and this purpose alone. Use it or lose it. What's Broadway got to do with this?

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Your previous post
You indicated in a previous post that the initial £50k is investment in the town. I just asked if it would be used to sort out Broadway, but could you mean that it would be local contractors that do the work, so the money would be in local contractors pockets, hence the town

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Re: Council get something right!!
 

From what I can work out if you didn't go to the sales meeting you can't complain about something that is going to make Accy the laughing stock of the north, who in there right mind is going to travel to Accrington to see some humps on the coppice, maybe colderstones on a day trip?
1 Is the designer from Accrington? no, so no money going to Accy there
2 What firms in Accy will get the contract? don't know it will be up to the council, what if a bit of nepotism comes in and a firm from Blackburn or Burnley get it will that money be going to Accy no.
3 Where will you build the coach park for the crowds? up Hapton, thats in Padiam so no money to Accy there.
Doesn't look to good for money coming in but hey if the crowds come they could always go to cafe in the market hall, as long as its not Wednesday.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Re: Council get something right!!
 

I don't see what the fuss is about maintenance. From what I can gather the thing is made out of the natural grass that's up there anyway. So what sort of maintenance will that need? Just a strimmer on it once or twice a year. Hyndburn Borough Council are supposed to maintain the site anyway but don't now. At least this way they are going to have to think about how they're going to do it.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Will there be a chair-lift for all the people who can't get up the Coppice to see first hand the eighth wonder of the world? As it's not supposed to spoil the natural beauty of the skyline thats the only way a great number of people are going to see it.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Re: Council get something right!!
 

lf it's as impressive as The Great Wall of China, and is visible from space it really will put us on the map!

I'm all for public art but it should be relevant and accessible. Anyone remember the bronze tea set outside Ossy co-op?

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Re: Council get something right!!
 

So that's another good reason to support the scheme. If PB hates it, it's probably going to be really good.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Re: Council get something right!!
 

: (Originally Posted by Cjay)Hyndburn Borough Council are supposed to maintain the site anyway but don't now.

Supposed to empty your bins as well says it all really.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

On the point of a local contractor being given the job, if HBC or LCC are involved then contractor selection will have to comply with standing orders, that is the project tendered, and the contractors on the tender list will be from the authorities rotational list of contractors for that type of work.
I don't disagree with you park but what if that contrators for that type of work are not on the list? they go elsewhere hence no money for Accrington and being a council project there will always be a reason that they don't have to comply and if they don't whats going to happen to them? nothing, not like the contractors can do anything about it or the people of Accy, they will do as they please and pull the wool over peoples eyes for as long as they can get away with it. They changed the date of the meeting for a footy match anything happen to them for that, not a thing except a few less vocal people went to the meeting this time.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Britcliffe doesn't hate it, as you will see after the next vote, remember the guy is a politician and we're due a vote in May, would you trust him?

Re: Council get something right!!
 

About as far as I could throw the Coppice!

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Is that a bit of reverse psychology? If PB hates it then he is in good company... there are quite a few people on here who wouldn't have a bar of it.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Someone must trust him because he keeps being elected.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

I suspect much of his appeal is to the older female voters, you know, the ones who fondly imagine that Mr Churchill is still Prime Minister and can't quite get their heads around the "new money".

Re: Council get something right!!
 

OUCH! Would never vote for him, l was away when the majority here did- but he is very nice on a personal level. A lot of people do like him in Ossy.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Don't speak too soon, his chum KH's might be coaching him on how to pull wool over eyes of the electorate!

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Extracts from letters sent to councils and housing associations throughout the UK

1. I want some repairs done to my cooker as it has backfired and burnt my knob off .

2. I wish to complain that my father hurt his ankle very badly when he put his foot in the hole in his back passage.

3. Their 18 year old son is continually banging his balls against my fence.

4. I wish to report that tiles are missing from the outside toilet roof. I Think it was bad wind the other night that blew them off.

5. My lavatory seat is cracked, where do I stand.

6. I am writing on behalf of my sink, which is coming away from thewall.

7. Will you please send someone to mend the garden path. My wife tripped and fell on it yesterday and now she is pregnant. We are getting married in September and we would like it in the garden before we move into the house.

8. I request permission to remove my drawers in the kitchen. 50% of the walls are damp, 50% have crumbling plaster and the rest are plain filthy.

9. The toilet is blocked and we cannot bath the children until it is cleared.

10. Will you please send a man to look at my water, it is a funny colour and not fit to drink.

11. Our lavatory seat is broken in half and is now in three pieces.

12. Would you please send a man to repair my spout. I am an old age pensioner and need it badly.

13. I want to complain about the farmer across the road; every morning at 6am his c**k wakes me up and its now getting too much for me.

14. The man next door has a large erection in the back garden, which is unsightly and dangerous.

15. Our kitchen floor is damp. We have two children and would like a third so please send someone round to do something about it.

16. I am a single woman living in a downstairs flat and would you please do something about the noise made by the man I have on top of me every night.

17. Please send a man with the right tool to finish the job and satisfy my wife.

18. I have had the clerk of the works down on the floor six times but I still have no satisfaction.

19. This is to let you know that our lavatory seat is broken and we can't get BBC2.

20. My bush is really overgrown round the front and my back passage has fungus growing in it.

21. He's got this huge tool that vibrates the whole house and I just can't take it anymore.

22. That is his excuse for dogs mess that I find hard to swallow.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Lol, very interesting reading :D difficult to pick a winner

:rofl38: :rofl38: :rofl38: :rofl38:

Re: Council get something right!!
 

I bet none of them were fixed.

Re: Council get something right!!
 

VERY FUNNY!!! :D :D

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Brilliant, Slinky......

Nos. 1,3,4,5,6,7.......... sorry, all of them, 'tickled my fancy'.... old-fashioned phrase, meaning PMSL!!!!

Re: Council get something right!!
 

Excellent stuff slinky, good to start off the day with a laugh.:rofl38: