Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob I wonder how much Ian Brady and Myra Hindley have cost the taxpayer?

SHOPLIFTER Lela Selimi sandwiched an appearance in court between offences of shoplifting.

Blackburn magistrates heard the Albanian asylum-seeker started the day stealing clothing worth £115 from a town centre shop before attending court.

And having been made subject to a community rehabilitation order, she left court and committed two more offences.

Selimi, 21, of Victoria Street, Darwen, admitted stealing from Bay Trader and Argos, and handling goods stolen from Next and River island. She was made subject to a community rehabilitation order for three years and ordered to do 100 hours community punishment. Passing sentence, the chairman of the bench said the court had been very lenient.

"Should you commit similar offences in future it is very likely you will go to prison," he warned.

Francis McEntee, prosecuting, said Selimi had appeared in court last June 16 when she was made subject to a community rehabilitation order for offences of shoplifting.

"What is now clear is that the offences you are dealing with today were committed either side of that court appearance," said Mr McEntee. "Having taken some property from River Island before she came to court, the second theft was committed within hours if not minutes of her leaving this building."

Sian Hall, defending, referred to a pre-sentence report which she said showed her client had numerous problems.

"The report provides a great deal of detail of her traumatic life so far," said Miss Hall. "I don't feel it is appropriate for me to read those out in court and she finds them very difficult to cope with."

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob I wonder how much Ian Brady and Myra Hindley have cost the taxpayer?

Originally Posted by garinda l'm sure Derek Bentley's sister didn't see her brothers 'mistaken' execution a small price to pay, so that the guilty don't walk free. No compensation was paid out either, so we saved even more money in the long term didn't we?

Originally Posted by garinda And Winnie Bennett would be closer to having a grave for her child if they'd have been executed in the 60's, l think not. At least for whatever reasons Hindley was able to help find victims bodies, thus providing some closure for those families 20 odd years later.

Originally Posted by Tealeaf I'm quite sure that just one hundredth of the money spent on keeping these two in accommodation, food medicine and toilet rolls over the last 40 years or so would have been sufficent to fund a proper search of Saddleworth Moor and recover the body of young Bennett.

Originally Posted by Doug Maybe some of the residents of the open prison system should be put to work in assisting finding the child.

Originally Posted by Doug Why the **** should it be acceptable that sometimes the innocent must suffer. Where’s the Justice in that?

Originally Posted by Less Then we would end up spending even more money on helping the 'poor souls' get over the trauma of having been used in such an inhumane manner, Cut out the middle men send the so called counsellors out in one big group to do the searching & they can help each other overcome the upset as they are going along.

Originally Posted by vorlon24 I am all for bringing capital punishment back, even if the odd innocent person is wrongly convicted. If executing a convicted murderer/rapist (Ian Huntley, anyone?) stops one person from committing such an offence due to the penalty that is likely to be imposed, then surely that must be seen as an effective way of reducing crime?

Originally Posted by g78 Im afraid I don't agree with the whole 'corporal punishment' act. I just don't see how morally we can condone taking a life of someone who has already taken a life. To me it is double standards.

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob It's funny isn't it, how there seem to have been an awful lot more Miscarriages of Justice since the abolition of capital punishment than there ever were before it. it certainly seems like the court of appeal is in permanent session these days. It strikes me, that the way the system is set up today there would actually be very little chance of ever hanging anyone. Funny that the US seem to be able to get the job done without too many mistakes being made.

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob No, I'm sorry. I'm fed up with being nice and reasonable. We have been doing that for long enough and it has gotten us nowhere. Once of a day, gun crime was virtually unheard of in this country, how times change! Why? Because the criminal classes know that the bleeding heart liberals, while not approving of their wrongdoing, neverthless will bend over backwards to try and "understand" them and arrange a suitable programme of rehabilitation and education to try and turn them into caring sharing members of the community. While the victim is, more often than not, left to pick up the pieces and carry on as best they can. You can stuff liberalism! I am sick to the back teeth of having to accomodate the incompetant, the socially inadequate, the Idle and the feckless. I am sick of having to carry them and having to fork out my hard earned money to clean up after them.

Originally Posted by garinda Again sorry to harp on, but gun ownership, both legal and illegal in the States, plus Capital punishment in the US, does not equal a safe and harmonius society. The figures speak for themselves.

Originally Posted by garinda Oh, and since l'm only one of two people against capital punishment so far in this thread. l'd like to state my politics are neither wooly or liberal, but veer from the libertarian to the fascistic on some issues.

Originally Posted by Tealeaf Give me the US crime experiance anyday.[/QUOTE I am sure many americans would argue that point and take our justice any day.

Originally Posted by g78 I just don't see how morally we can condone taking a life of someone who has already taken a life. To me it is double standards.

Originally Posted by MichiganRed The answer to your quandry is rather simple. Punishment is established to place a value, if you will, on the crime. For example, if you wish to exceed the speed limit, it will cost you "X" amount of money. Capital punishment simply takes the value with which you hold your own existence and places it on those around you. If you do not want to lose your life, you will not take mine.

Originally Posted by Tealeaf I believe we should hang a bleeding- heart do-gooder alongside whoever is the guilty party, on the basis that if society is to blame (as they claim) then they can pay the price , too.

Originally Posted by Less Didn't the Romans have a system where-by if you defended some-one that is guilty of a crime then you could suffer the same punishment?.

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob Not sure about that Less, but I do know that prosecutors who lost a case were branded on the forehead for being false accusors.

Originally Posted by MichiganRed [/font] In my opinion, yes. For any punishment to be effective, it must be severe enough to be a deterrent to the crime. If we, as members of the "civilized" world, are going to pride ourselves in the high regard with which we hold the sanctity of human life and the rights inherent to that life we must make the price for destroying that life so terrible that no one would willingly and carelessly do so.

Originally Posted by -pixie Grisly end for a pervert http://images.thesun.co.uk/images/trans.gifhttp://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2005121088,00.jpgFlogged ... killer lashed 100 times http://images.thesun.co.uk/images/trans.gifhttp://images.thesun.co.uk/images/trans.gif FULL NEWS INDEXhttp://images.thesun.co.uk/images/trans.gifhttp://images.thesun.co.uk/images/trans.gifhttp://images.thesun.co.uk/images/trans.gif A SERIAL killer is flogged before being hanged in front of a cheering crowd of 3,000 Iranians yesterday. Mohammad Bijeh raped and murdered 21 people, mainly boys. He evaded cops for two years because he targeted kids of illegal Afghan refugees, too afraid to report them missing. Bijeh was lashed 100 times before the brother of a victim stabbed him in the back. The mum of another slapped Bijeh before putting the noose around his neck. He was then hanged in Pakdasht’s main square. Barbaric...yes - but at least he's no danger to anyone else now. I just found this so unbelievable, especially when you comapre with our softly softly approach in the UK. What do others think?

Originally Posted by g78 But can answering death with death truly be justified ?

Originally Posted by vorlon24 Would they have to wear the advertising in court, much like today's sports people?

Originally Posted by Alice Ghandi said "An eye for an eye makes us all blind" I'd like to suggest a middle ground though. Those found guilty could be given a life/death sentence with a maximum time (say 3yrs) in which to make their appeals. After that the sentence is carried out - no questions. This would be carried out in private with no public audience. Also I would limit amount they could get for legal aid. If they wanted more they'd have to get some "bleeding heart liberal" to back them.

Originally Posted by vorlon24 That last comment is just sick, Chav. Sick as it is though, there would probably be people out there who would be prepared to pay for it.

Originally Posted by chav1 familys should have the right to see the rapist of their children put to death like they do in america

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob I disagree there Alice, I think Justice should not only be done, but be seen to be done, otherwise you lessen it's deterrent effect. I do agree with a limit on the time and funding allowed for appeals though.

Originally Posted by Tealeaf yeah, the figures do speak for themselves....burglary is one-third of British levels, crime against the person also one third of British levels, motor theft half UK levels, serious gun crime resticted to ethnics within the inner-city areas, entire counties within certain states crime free for the last 20 years or so. Give me the US crime experiance anyday.

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob And another thing, I think that any immigrant brought before the courts for whatever reason should be automatically deported along with their relatives and dependants.

Originally Posted by garinda Today's breaking news- A juvenile [age not yet released] shoots dead 9 people, and wounds 10 others in Minnesota. 1/ Did he do it because there's no death penalty in this State? 2/Are there any Counties in Minnesota that have been 'crime free' for 20 years? Still waiting for info. on this quote. 3/Being a Native American, does today's killer count as 'ethnic' or indigenous, making everyone else ethnic?

Originally Posted by Bazf http://news.tbo.com/news/MGB4FU4ML6E.html Now heres someone who needs the Pakasht Justice.

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp If he is found not guilty then presumably he will not receive any punishment. What's wrong with having a discussion about what punishment a person should receive if found guilty? Doesn't it automatically follow? When murderers were hanged back before it was abolished then those not guilty of murder were not hanged. Seems quite logical to me.