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katex 13-04-2008 10:20
Re: I'd do anything
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazey (Post 561465)
Can black people not have colour in their faces? Surely they're faces go red too when they blush, cold etc...
Of course Blazey, but pretty sure Dickens did not mean this ... rosy and ruddy complexions was considered a sign of health then. He describes people of black origin as brown usually. Pretty sure if he saw Nancy as black, there would have been no doubt in his description of her.

Just my preference the way I see Nancy, that's all. Think would be taking stage licence a little too far. Just like I would not wish a tall blond Aryan playing Fagin... :D

blazey 13-04-2008 10:32
Re: I'd do anything
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katex (Post 561468)
Of course Blazey, but pretty sure Dickens did not mean this ... rosy and ruddy complexions was considered a sign of health then. He describes people of black origin as brown usually. Pretty sure if he saw Nancy as black, there would have been no doubt in his description of her.

Just my preference the way I see Nancy, that's all. Think would be taking stage licence a little too far. Just like I would not wish a tall blond Aryan playing Fagin... :D
My mum and I said a similar thing tonight. I said Oliver should have blonde hair and blue eyes in my opinion, but I can't say it or I'll probably be branded a nazi. I can't say I have read Oliver because I don't actually think much of the story.

garinda 13-04-2008 10:49
Re: I'd do anything
 
'she was not the first choice for Nancy. Director Sir Carol Reed had wanted Shirley Bassey for the role, but Hollywood studio bosses felt the world – and particularly the still racially divided American South – was not ready for a black Nancy.'

I'd do anything to be a judge on I'd Do Anything ... but all they offered me was a one-minute slot, says the original Nancy | the Daily Mail

Looks like Shani Wallis was lucky to get the film role.

I know you're just expressing an aesthetic opinion Kate, but it wouldn't bother me if Nancy was black, as long as she was good enough for the role. There would have been plenty of black, gin swingin', tarts with hearts in the east end in Victorian London.

A black Oliver is a different matter, as he is related to other members of the cast, and brings in different issues, unless they too are black.

garinda 13-04-2008 11:09
Re: I'd do anything
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katex (Post 561468)
... rosy and ruddy complexions was considered a sign of health then.
Not pickin' on you, honest hun, but I have to disagree with you on this one too, but 'having a great deal of colour in their faces' wouldn't have been seen as being healthy. For one thing they wouldn't have been healthy, living in the insanitary cess pit of London's slums. It more likey meant they liked more than the odd tipple.

Any real lady of fashion would have wanted a complexion that looked like she'd never stepped out from under a parasol, thus showing she didn't have the appearance of a woman who actually had to work for a living.

It wasn't until the 1920's, when Coco Channel accidentally got sun burned in Biarritz, that having any colour on your face became socially acceptable, and fashionable.

katex 13-04-2008 11:37
Re: I'd do anything
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 561493)
Not pickin' on you, honest hun, but I have to disagree with you on this one too, but 'having a great deal of colour in their faces' wouldn't have been seen as being healthy. For one thing they wouldn't have been healthy, living in the insanitary cess pit of London's slums. It more likey meant they liked more than the odd tipple.

Any real lady of fashion would have wanted a complexion that looked like she'd never stepped out from under a parasol, thus showing she didn't have the appearance of a woman who actually had to work for a living.

It wasn't until the 1920's, when Coco Channel accidentally got sun burned in Biarritz, that having any colour on your face became socially acceptable, and fashionable.
Agree you are correct about the fad that was around then amongst the higher classes and pale complexions .. but appears Dickens thought differently about the look of health, or he would not have offered his description of them in this way. 'stout and healthy' .. love it .. :D

That article was very interesting about Shani Wallis. Couldn't see Shirley Bassey in this role at all .. no sequined dresses and certainly could not see her portraying the underlying vulnerablity that Nancy had, or subservience to Bill Sikes LOL. She certainly has the common touch though.:rolleyes:

Lolly 13-04-2008 11:51
Re: I'd do anything
 
I saw a production of Oliver in Manchester a few years ago, and both Nancy and Fagin were black. I cant remember the name of the woman that played Nancy. She was on earlier in the series though when they were at "Nancy School" and Gary Wilmot played Fagin. They were both fantastic and it didnt really cross my mind whilst watching it. I do agree about Oliver being black as that would be a continuity error as Garinda said, you see members of his family.

I dont think it matters in musicals about colour unless the role calls for it. I've seen Gary Wilmot again in Me & My Girl, and I was in a production of Me & My Girl where Bill was played by a black actor. When I was in it I didnt even think about it and nobody has ever mentioned it.

garinda 13-04-2008 12:05
Re: I'd do anything
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by katex (Post 561499)
Couldn't see Shirley Bassey in this role at all .. no sequined dresses and certainly could not see her portraying the underlying vulnerablity that Nancy had, or subservience to Bill Sikes LOL. She certainly has the common touch though.:rolleyes:
I think a pre-sequin Bassy would have made an interesting Nancy. Certainly the scratching by the cat from Tiger Bay is pure Nancy.:D


YouTube - Shirley Bassey - DOCUMENTARY (Clip 2)

garinda 13-04-2008 15:47
Re: I'd do anything
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolly (Post 561507)
I saw a production of Oliver in Manchester a few years ago, and both Nancy and Fagin were black. I cant remember the name of the woman that played Nancy. She was on earlier in the series though when they were at "Nancy School" and Gary Wilmot played Fagin. They were both fantastic and it didnt really cross my mind whilst watching it. I do agree about Oliver being black as that would be a continuity error as Garinda said, you see members of his family.

I dont think it matters in musicals about colour unless the role calls for it. I've seen Gary Wilmot again in Me & My Girl, and I was in a production of Me & My Girl where Bill was played by a black actor. When I was in it I didnt even think about it and nobody has ever mentioned it.
The BBC had a black Nancy in their production last Christmas.

Sophie Okonedo does the Twist - Times Online

Neil 13-04-2008 16:09
Re: I'd do anything
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 561630)
The BBC had a black Nancy in their production last Christmas.
It can't have been Julian Clary then....he's white :rolleyes:

BERNADETTE 13-04-2008 16:34
Re: I'd do anything
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 561640)
It can't have been Julian Clary then....he's white :rolleyes:
You are on form today:p

garinda 13-04-2008 16:35
Re: I'd do anything
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BERNADETTE (Post 561660)
You are on form today:p

He's just graduated from Nancy school.;)

Neil 13-04-2008 17:07
Re: I'd do anything
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 561661)
He's just graduated from Nancy school.;)
Maybe I went to an all white school :eek:

Lilly 13-04-2008 20:07
Re: I'd do anything
 
Keisha got the lowest amount of votes.....again.

Andrew Lloyd Webber still saved her though......again.

I wasn't fond of Tara either though so quite glad she's gone. :)

Keisha to go next please, Andrew.

Lilly 24-05-2008 20:46
Re: I'd do anything
 
Never mind Eurovision, this is the highlight of my Saturday night.

It was the semi-final this week, the final is next week.:mosher:

Is anyone else on here still watching?

Only 4 left now.....Rachel, Samantha, Jessie and Jodie.

I want Rachel or Samantha to win. :D

Lolly 24-05-2008 22:46
Re: I'd do anything
 
Yeah i'm watching it. I want Jodie to win though. :D


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