Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

A Picture from the late 1920's, maybe early 30's of the Bethel Chapel congregation "walking" as we used to say.
Not sure where it is though...one clue maybe is the "Accrington Corporation" sign in the upstairs window. Maybe Blackburn Rd....I seem to remember all church Walks went along there.
Bethel was on Hyndburn Rd opposite the bottom of Park rd, in Gatty Park.


Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Done it again......forgot Pic..

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Good pic, possibly across from top of oxford st, if its Blackburn Rd.?:confused:

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Looks like it could be on blackburn rd where you say cashy its hard to tell with the narrow angle.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Aint certain mate?, Karateman first suggested Blackburn Rd, so if it is, twas hom pointed me that way.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Assuming that they are heading towards Accy centre from maybe Church, or if they have come up Park Rd to Blackburn rd, then the Shop/houses would be on the left hand side of the road looking towards Accy.

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

I imagined the right hand side if going towards accy, thinking as i walk on yon that way most days.:confused:

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

I think this location is Blackburn Rd, Church somewhere near Henry St. Not far away from Ernest St Baptists' chapel. Might this have been called Bethel?

The chapel near Gatty Park was an RC one - not Bethel.

The Baptist chapel in Barnes St was known as Bethel, so this location could be somewhere near the top of Blackburn Rd Accy.

I feel some agreement with Cashy over Blackburn Rd/Oxford St.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

I considered Church Bob, What put me off was the window wi Accrington Corp in, cos did Church not have its own council back then?:confused:

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

St Oswald's Catholic church next to Gatty Park was closed in 1869 when the Sacred Heart church was opened .

It was , I think , used as a warehouse until it was burnt down in a fire .

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

The chapel definately was situated in Gatty Park or right next to it. There were three "houses" sited at the bottom of the path that runs up the side of the park up to milnshaw park ...facing the bottom of Park Rd..I think we called it Heyes lane or something. Two are still there now with a gap in the middle. This was where the chapel was, in the middle. I think it burnt down at some point. I also know someone whose Grandma lives in one of the houses and remembers the chapel.
My mum was a regular at the chapel in the 30's and mentioned it a few times as it was the first church she attended before helping to form the methodist Church of the Nazarene. It was at the time in the 30's and 40's, when there were some large christian revival crusades, especially in the Burnley area.
I have some photos of her outside the chaple as well somewhere.
In the 50's they worshiped initially at a place on the corner of Infant st and Abbey street upstairs above what is now Maundy Grange..it was the old TOC H building. In the early 60's they moved to Peel st on the corner of the small street that used to run through to Broadway past the market probably near where Wilkinsons is now. Eventually in the late 60's they moved to York St Church in what was the old Co-op building.

I have also seen an old Accrington map which If I remember actually mentions Bethel at this location. I will try and hunt it out

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

If they are walking towards Accy centre then the row of buildings you can see must be on the left hand side and the picture taken from the right hand side .

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Maybe they walked on Hyndburn Rd towards Church, up Henry St and back down Blackburn Rd. Mind you not knowing the end destination, which may have been back at the Chapel, maybe they turned left down Oxford st or any one of the previous streets and then left, back along Hyndburn Rd.

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Sorry just come to me, the lane was called "old Bobs" not Heyes lane..thats in Ossy...Doh

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Bob is right in that Barnes Street chapel was called Bethel - I have a book called The Baptist Churches of Accrington & District by Robert J V Wylie which was written in 1923 and it confirms that.

I have been trying to decipher the words on the banner - it clearly says Bethel Crusades or Crusaders in the middle and Saved to Serve at the bottom and possibly Accrington at the top, but words in the middle of the circle are unclear apart from Always.

Is it possible that the banner does not refer to a chapel called Bethel but to a movement within a chapel with a different name?

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Not sure if my mum said it was a Methodist church not Baptist.
Anyway I have found a map of the area showing the Chapel in Gatty Park where I said.

The banner says..... Bethel Crusaders and at the bottom Saved to serve and in the middle something Jesus Always Something

The map is named..... Accwest1890.

Am I allowed to post it?

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

It's at
http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/environ...cc/accwest.jpg

but it just says Chapel not Bethel.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Without being disrespectful to Catholics - these ladies are not dressed up enough.to be RCs. Not enough pomp.No rosaries to be seen.
The Infant St (opposite Maundy) group was The Rechabites - a part of the tee-total movement.
I have doubts about what has been said about Gatty Park except that there was an RC church at the bottom of Owd Bob's.
Whilst Wylie mentions Bethel in his book on Baptists in Accrington, he also wrote History of the Bethel Baptist Church (Barnes St) published in 1929. Hargreaves wrote about Methodism in Acc.
It is annoying that I cannot keep going back to the photo as I am writing this.
If the location is on Blackburn Rd between Fox St & Scaitcliffe St, (Brunswick Terrace), the shop windows seen could have been No 179, where, in 1951, there was a newsagent /sub PO kept by Miss Knight. I don't remember it.
In 1951 (directory) there are several shops listed on Blackburn rd Church on the block between Market St and the boundary by the side of the lodge.
w

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Bob, you can open the photo in a window or tab: click on the thumbnail in post 2, when the photo appears click on it once and it should open in a separate window which you can refer to while typing in the Accyweb window - works for me anyway!

Not sure anyone mentioned the photo being of RCs and those women look as though they are wearing overalls - also I wouldn't associate the phrase Bethel Crusaders with Catholics.

Have just looked on Google Steetview and the two houses to the right of Gatty pk on Hyndburn road are typical mid 19C Gothis so could have been associated with the chapel which Phil says was between them.

Re the photo, if that is a shop front, why do the upstairs windows say Accrington Corporation?

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Not sure why some seem to doubt my mother saying the chapel she went to for a lot of years was not called the Bethel. I have no reason to think she was maybe telling porkies. She was never a Catholic as far as I can remember....always methodist I'm sure.

My brother Donald also confirmed it was on Hyndburn rd and he was 10 years older than me so he probably new more detail more than me. Sadly he passed away last year.

I think I can find some more photos which may have been taken outside the chapel, in the same "uniform" not overalls. May not show a lot of detail though....

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Some more photos which I think were in front of the Chapel...

In them my mum is wearing the same uniform as in the Walking photo.....

If I am wrong and with all the doubting, I am beginning to doubt myself now.......and this isn't Hyndburn rd then I apologise..

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

We're not doubting your mum Phil just saying that the only Bethel WE know is Barnes Street.

And we are trying to help identify the photo's location, so please try and bear with us.

I have just spent half an hour on Streetview progressing along Blackburn road both sides from the railway bridge towards Church since those buildings should be easy toidentify if they still exist, even with recent shop fronts etc. The type of stonework, arrangement of windows etc should help, but couldn't spot any resemblances.

If they are on Blackburn road then I think they must be where Bob said, between Fox and Scaitcliffe streets - now knocked down.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Sorry Susie, I thought Bob said the chapel was definately RC in Gatty Park ( was there another chapel in the area of the Park?....anyway I too have just done a bit of trawling along Blackburn rd and all the stone work seems to be of the more rougher type. In the pic it appears to be more smoother. And the majority of the shops on the left side dont have houses next to them...they appear to be a full row of shops or a full row of houses.
If it is between Fox street and Scaitcliffe st then they must be actually walking towards Church not Accy.

Hang on, just looked at the row after the Imperial pub and also the row just past the railway arch opposite Eagle st .......smooth brickwork, two story, getting closer to corporation offices in the Eagle st area...just a thought

Do the other photos help?

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Great photos Phil and the chapel appears to have a gothic look to it.

Agree completely with you about the buildings on Blackburn Road.

Received wisdom about the Hyndburn road building is that it was a catholic chapel originally built 1850s which ties in with the gothic style architecture ans the two remaining houses, after Sacred Heart was built in 1860s it was used ? as a warehouse till it burnt down. But who knows, it was still marked as a chapel on that 1890 map...

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Are we now saying your mum was a methodist not a baptist as that may change things...

Good photo here of the two houses on Hyndburn Road:

Roman Catholic Transepts, Hyndburn Road, Accrington | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

As far as my memory serves me from being a small boy, my mum has always been a Methodist, although I wouldn't swear that when she found religion in the late 20's early 30's she may have worshipped in baptist churches. She was definatley protestant and had never been catholic..ever.

If the Chapel in Gatty Park had been catholic at some time, maybe it changed to a protestant church at some point

Where was the bethel on Barnes street...cant see it on Accy map of 1890?

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

We need to establish whether the chapel in the photos with your mum is actually the building that was between those two houses on Hyndburn road, also when it burnt down.

Although they have gothic details, not sure that those two houses were part of a church. If they were transepts with a church between, as Atarah says in the comment on Flickr, the roofs would have been at 90 degrees to the way they are now, ie with the ridge line heading towardsthe building in the middle rather than parallel to it.

Also if part of a church there would not have been chimneys or upstairs windows and if these were put in after the church was destroyed it would have been after 1930 or so if the chapel photos are of that building, but they don't look like they are a late addition.

I think these may have been separate buildings, perhaps a presbytery and a Sunday school but all in all quite substantiial buildings to have only been used for a short time before Sacred Heart was built.

Wish I were in Accy, I would go and have a look at the houses myself..

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Looking at the second of the chapel photos, the detail of the head of the window to the right of the porch is different from that of the windows in the gable end of the Hyndburn road houses, suggesting that they were not all part of the same buiding.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Found this on Flickr, it's the same as on the banner in the walking photo. So I still wonder if Bethel was just the name of this organisation rather than the chapel.

Galleries | Bethel Crusaders badge (c.1930) | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

And more...

An enamel badge issued by the Bethel Evangelistic Society (BES) between 1929 and 1933. The ‘Bethel Crusaders’ were members of the BES who were active in the Ministry and took part in their evangelising campaigns. The badge’s text reads BETHEL CRUSADERS – SHINING FOR JESUS . ALWAYS . EVERYWHERE.

The Bethel Crusaders were founded in 1929 by Edward Jefferys (1889-1974) who was strongly influenced when growing up in a time of evangelical revivals. His father (Stephen) and uncle (George) were also highly active evangelical preachers

In 1926 Edward became a full-time Christian Minister and along with his father branched out from the Elim Pentecostal Church to form their own ministries. Through the persuasion of father, Edward formed the Bethel Evangelistic Society (BES) in 1929 at Bristol and this rapidly expanded over the next few years. However, an acrimonious split occurred in the BES during 1933 due to doctrinal differences but Edward persevered with his Ministry and continued the BES evangelising campaigns until the end of the 1930’s. Evangelical campaigning in Britain was in decline during this period and so coupled with financial difficulties and the outbreak of war in 1939, the BES was wound down. Edward continued his evangelical work and in 1948 took up a new ministry within the Anglican Church.

.
References:
www.liverpoolrevival.org.uk/biography.htm (Edward Jefferys and the Bethel Crusaders movement).

www.elim.org.uk/Group/Group.aspx?ID=109308 (History of the Elim Pentecostal Church founded by George Jefferys, Edward’s uncle).

.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

More about Jeffreys and the crusades from the Liverpool web link in my previous post.

He and his colleagues founded the ‘Bethel Crusaders’ designed to link the young people in the crusades, giving them suitable training for aggressive evangelism.

The revival tide rolled on through the cotton towns of Lancashire and in many of them Bethel churches were formed.

During this time the ‘Bethel Full Gospel Messenger’ magazine was launched and Gospel caravans were purchased for rural missions and a Bible College and Missionary Training Centre was opened in Bristol in 1931.

Sadly in the midst of all this considerable growth problems were emerging. There were many critics and opposition was being received from local authorities. The main problem, however, concerned divisions within the Bethel Movement itself that came to a head in 1932. There was unease about Edward Jeffreys’ leadership style, doctrine and perceived lack of financial accountability which led to the resignation from the Society of the entire advisory board and 12 out of the 60 Bethel churches. The Society was never the same again.

In the following year (1933) there was further split when due to doctrinal differences over the Baptism of the Holy Spirit a number of people left the Bethel churches or took their churches out of the Bethel movement, many of them joining the Assemblies of God, or the Elim Pentecostal Church.

Edward Jeffreys, however, continued to hold crusades throughout the 1930’s mainly in the Merseyside and Lancashire areas and he planted several strong evangelical churches, which continue to this day.

By the end of the 1930’s, however, large-scale evangelistic crusades had begun to decline in popularity and success, with the Second World War now occupying the public’s time and attention.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Try this...
Barnes Street Garage Ltd. Barnes Street, Accrington, Lancashire, BB5 6RN:: OS grid SD7628 :: Geograph Britain and Ireland - photograph every grid square!

Look again at the 1890 map, clearly marked near the top on the north side it says Bethel Chapel, just before Park Mills.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

The entrance on the photos is similar to the one at Elim Pentecostal church on Blackburn Rd facing where the Grammar School used to be .

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Have found an Accyweb thread from 2004 which has solved some problems and given some answers.

First, this quote from Acrylic-Bob, though I don't know where he got his info from:

St Oswalds Church Was situated on Hyndburn Road between Elmfield House (later Gatty Park) and Hags Mill at the bottom of the footpath known locally as 'Owd bob's'
It was built in 1852 and ceased to be a church when the Sacred Heart Church was built on Blackburn Road in 1869. The building survived until the outbreak of the second world war being latterly used for storing tyres. It was destroyed by fire on the morning of 16th October 1943. The building comprised a central nave and two transepts. The transepts survived the fire and were converted into houses. They can still be seen on Hyndburn Road.

So the church was still standing in the 20s/30s.

Second, a photo showing the church.

Looking at the detail of the front door, gate posts and small front windows I would say this IS the same building as in the photos with your mum. So you were right.

I still say the houses were not transepts, they look more like small buildings stuck on the corners. And they do have chimneys and upstairs windows then, which part of a church would not have. More likely vestries or meeting rooms maybe.

Blowing up the photo, the attached building on the right has a separate entrance with gate posts and what looks like a front door, plus greenhouse and garden in front. Also dormers in the roof which you wouldn't have in the church. I reckon it was the priest's house.

Think I'll have a rest now, done enough digging on this...

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

No it isn't . I've just been past it .

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Yee Ha...!!!! thanks Susie...I am resting a lot easier now...are you called Susie Holmes by the way?
First ref the Barnes St Bethel,I wrongly assumed everyone meant barnes St in CHURCH ....Doh...Sorry.

I have been talking today with a friend whose grandparents currently live in one of the houses..the right hand side one I think. They moved in 50yrs ago and say the church was not there then.
She confirmed the two houses were apparently connected to the church before it burnt down..precepts as you say.
She also confirmed that there is a cellar under the house in which they discovered a passage which went under where the church had stood and into the cellar of the house on the other side. There is a ghostly rumour that the passage went on all the way to Accy...but it is a rumour at the moment.
She also said that Hyndburn council reclaimed some of the Garden at the front of the buildings to widen Hyndburn rd.... within the last 50 yrs...anyone remember.
My friend will ask he gran to E mail me some pics she has and some more details.
We used to live on Blackburn Rd near the grammar School and mum also worshiped at the Elim church opposite the school.
The great Christian Revival crusades you mention in the area is where she met my father so everything seems to be falling into place time wise.
Maybe the church changed religion to the Bethel faith since most Catholics went to Sacred heart and then when it burnt down she found other places of worship.

My quest goes on...LOL

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

St Oswalds Church Was situated on Hyndburn Road between Elmfield House (later Gatty Park) and Hags Mill at the bottom of the footpath known locally as 'Owd bob's'
It was built in 1852 and ceased to be a church when the Sacred Heart Church was built on Blackburn Road in 1869. The building survived until the outbreak of the second world war being latterly used for storing tyres. It was destroyed by fire on the morning of 16th October 1943. The building comprised a central nave and two transepts. The transepts survived the fire and were converted into houses. They can still be seen on Hyndburn Road.

Destroyed by fire in 1943 sounds feasible but it was obviously some place of worship as seen from my photos..we have a minister in the pic as well, so I cant fully agree with AB saying it ceased to be a church.

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

No probs Phil, I have time on my hands at the moment, glad to put it to good use and I enjoy digging! No I am not Susie Holmes and I prefer to be called Sue, susie is my nom deplume/alias.

By the way the word is transept not precept, but still don't think those two buildings were part of the actual church, rather served other functions like housing the priest etc.

We should try and find out what happened to the actual church between the catholics leaving in 1869 and the Bethel crusaders appearing in the late 20s/30s. It was still marked as a chapel on the 1890 map - I wonder about other maps after that? The Bethel chapel probably ceased to exist in the late 30s if you read the crusade's history so it could have been a warehouse after that before it burnt down. If that was 1943 it would be right when your friend's grandma said there was no church when they moved in 50 years ago. And I would hazard a guess that your mum moved on before 1943. Those photos suggest late 20s early 30s to me. It definitely seems to have been a chapel then.

Don't know anything about the Elim church so wouldn't know when it opened for business. The road widening seems feasible when you look at the old photo of the church and see how far back the houses seem from the road. As for a tunnel going to Accrington... there are stories like that all over the place... ;)

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Hi Sue,
you obviously didn't get my little joke...Susie Holmes...er... Sherlock....super sleuth....thought you was related to him with all the brilliant detective work......LOL

Where did I get flippin PRECEPT from....it must be late

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

oh dear sorry... must have had a sense of humour bypass... I'll try and get it reversed... :rolleyes:

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Just drove past the top of Steiner st and the first half of the block between steiner and frederick st has smooth stone similar to the picture.. Might well match ......
Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

I think the pavement is too narrow for this location. There were lots of shops on that block.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

I did have a look at that block the other day on Streetview, just looked again, the stone is right but I think the windows are too close together.

Bob the pavement could have been altered and did you mean you have info about shops there in the 20s/30s?


Phil you're just going to have to keep driving round Accy/Church till you find the right spot!

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Unless its long gone? the place i thought,most of block is long gone.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Good photo here of the two houses on Hyndburn Road:

Roman Catholic Transepts, Hyndburn Road, Accrington | Flickr - Photo Sharing![/QUOTE]

The above link is a photo of Ivy Cottage...and the cottage next door is Rose Cottage.....I lived in Ivy Cottage in 1962 and 1963 .... it was owned by Ida Walsh... my bedroom was at the rear and overlooked the bowling green in Gatty Park...also there was a cellar.......and here is another picture which I found on Accy Web..it shows the old Church from the side...

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Another great photo, well done Accygirl. Wonder what date it was.

Seems that the road widening then had stopped at the Accy boundary, you can see the kink in the road on the 1890 map.

Wonder what the low building opposite was, just looked on Google satellite view and it's still there. Looks like a gate lodge, but if it were to Gatty pk it's on the wrong side of the road. Did the Steiners have a house on that side?

The photo must be after the school was built.

The Hag dye works next to the church presumably belonged to the Gatty family. I wonder if they gave the land for the church. The family came from France so I presume they were catholic.

What a lot of interesting avenues your post has opened up Phil!

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ton-59510.html

Lancashire Lantern | Word Search | Item

These two references answer some of the questions in my last post. Posts 11 and 17 in the Park Road thread suggest that the low building was as I thought a gate house, one of two to the Steiner mansion called Hyndburn house. Post 17 has a lovely old map with a Lancs county council stamp on it but I can't find it on the LCC website.

The school is on the 1909 map and I think it was built around then. Hyndburn house must have been gone by then because the area is built up with streets. The photo of the church that AccyGirl found is also on the lancashire lantern website with a date of approx 1920s

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

My mum used to have a garage on the land opposite the school. In the 50's there used to be I would guess 10 garages on that land, I think behind them was the reservoir, now gone. The garages were behind the small gatehouse and went virtually all the way back to the bottom of princess st. I think the gate house was named Hyndburn cottage and in the 60's those that lived there were called Coulson.

My aunt, now 92, used to worship in the Chapel and confirmed tonight it was the Bethel.

Getting really interesting as you say Susie

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Don't suppose your aunt remembers when they stopped worshipping at the chapel?

You're right about the reservoir, it was between the end of Princess street and Hyndburn road, where the fire station and Lidl are now accordiing to the 1890 map.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

I will ask her next time I'm in Clitheroe where she now lives.

It must have been in the late 30's I would assume, because if it was a wharehouse of sorts during the war, maybe that would explain why my mother who married in 1943 was married at the old Antley Church and not the Bethel. Then again my mother lived in Holland street, not to far from the Antley, as did her brother, my uncle, who also got married at the Antley.
Did Holland St come under Antley's parish area perhaps...reading the bahns and all that sort of thing......?????

From the picture of the Chapel from the side where it appears to stick out a fair way from the building in the foreground, you can see why the council compulsory purchased part of the front gardens of both cottages to widen the road to its current width, which is what my friends grandma in Ivy cottage told her. It happened within the last 50 years she said.


Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Phil I'm not sure that nonconformist churches had parishes, thought it was jut a C of E/RC thing.

By coincidence an Accyweb thread on Holland Street has been revived tonight... sad to see it is no more.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...eet-37207.html

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

I want to get back to the original query - where was the crusade photo ( and the later ones) taken. Mention of Antley Meths has raised another possibility. Ive had no success yet in finding where the photos were taken, but now I can send them to an Antlery mate. That church was altered about 1960. It's high time that Atarah went out with her camera snapping the possible locations.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Bob are you querying my conclusions? As a relative newbie I may not possess Atarah's Accyweb credentials as a local historian but I think I do know my architecture. I'm pretty certain that Phil's photos in post 21 were taken outside the church pictured in post 33 ie the old catholic church. The architectural details of door, windows and gateposts are the same. That only leaves the walking picture in post 1 to pin down.

As I said in post 37 it would be interesting to know what went on at the church between 1869 and the 1920s/30s as it was still marked as a chapel in the 1890 map.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

No, not querying - just wanting to discuss the walking picture. The thread has moved away from the location. Am OK with yours on the chapel, but we have been wandering over Park Rd & Holland St. On 14th October 1943, the observer reported on the Renown Tyre & Rubber Co being destroyed by fire. I have a suspicion that this was the old Catholoic church. I will enquire.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Sorry Bob thought you were saying the other photos were not taken outside the ex catholic church.

In post 33 I quote Acrylic-bob from an old thread

The building survived until the outbreak of the second world war being latterly used for storing tyres. It was destroyed by fire on the morning of 16th October 1943.

Don't know where he got his info from but the date is two days out from the Observer report.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

See post 12 on this old thread for a picture of the Antley Church.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ings-5369.html

Looks nothing like the one in Phil's photos.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

My grandad/grandma were married in Bethel Church, Accrington in 1904 .. they were Methodists.

No help to this thread whatsoever, just wanted to mention it..:)

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Kate the baptist chapel in Barnes street was called Bethel - don't know of a methodist one.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

To be honest, Sue, thought about this. My maternal ancestors seemed to go to both Baptist and Methodist. Remember Mum saying she went to Huncoat Baptists, then moved to Cambridge Street Methodist where I attended. You will be correct, I am sure.:)

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

No wonder they call you Konfused Kate. Your Les is right about you.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Cheeky sod...:p

Sorry to digress, but what denomination was Willow Street Sunday School ? Have a book presented to my Mum for her assistance at the morning services of the League of Young Worshipers in 1916 (she would be 10).

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

It was asociated with the Baptists of Cannon St. It was both a Day and a Sunday School

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

My Gran and grandad used to have the shop in Holland St in the 30's and 40's they were called Claude and Lillian Standring.

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

I drive an ambulance around Accy every day so am actively looking for similar shop fronts to those in the picture.

Funnily enough the houses on Union rd just past the theatre on the left and those opposite the Bay Horse look similar flat stone work, but that then doesn't work with the Accy Corporation sign in the window.....No just re checked.... close, but its not right.

The secret to identifying it may lie with the brickwork above the upstairs windows that seems to jut out a tad beneath the guttering compared to the rest of the wall....and........is that a bus stop sign attached to the Lamp post....so must be on an old bus or tram route..no?

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Blackburn road was a tram route...

Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

I still feel this photo is at Church, just about to turn into Henry Street.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

I think that the location is Blackburn Rd, Church and that the Corporation sign COULD be linked to the public transport ,but also it could have been an office where people over that end of Acc could pay their rates and perhaps gas, water and electricity bills. I think that Church & Ossie folk got their gas etc from Accrington Boards, which were Corporation-owned.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

The 1928 map also clearly shows the Bethel Chapel in Barnes Street, between Lee Street and Pitt Street.

The church, going up from Abbey Street, was on the left hand side. Directly opposite was the Sunday School, which is the building the garage now occupies.

The only query I would have about the walking photograph being in Church, is that, if they walked out of the chapel in Barnes Street, surely Church would be an awful long way for those little 'tots' shown ?

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

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I agree K. However if the event was an Ernest St one, it would not be unusual for a contingent from Barnes St to show up and boost the numbers. I am still holding Blackburn Rd, ACC in reserve for the location.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Ah yes, Bob ... never thought about that. Also, Phil's theory about the Elim Pentecostal converting to Bethel could be another.

Am 'Konfused Kate' .. you were correct... :D:D

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Kate, Bob, I thought we had already established that the old catholic church was a Bethel Crusade chapel in the 20s/30s. The women in the walking pic and in Phil's other pics taken outside this church are wearing exactly the same uniform.

The parade would have set off from Gatty park, Hyndburn road.

Why do we need to bring Ernest street and Barnes street inti the mix?

Please read the earlier posts if you haven't already done so.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

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We have not yet fixed a location for the walking photo. From Gatty Park it could be either of the Blackburn Rd suggestions.I am not ignoring the Gatty Park stuff, but want to bottom the street location.

Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

er, we are still discussing the photo of the group of "walkers" which I, and looks like Bob Dobson think is at Church, where you turn onto Henry Street?

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

I know that Bob but don't thiink the event was either a Barnes Street or an Ernest street one.

For a start the Barnes street chapel was called Bethel from its inception, long before the Bethel Crusaders of the 20s/30s who are shown in the photo. And has anyone found any evidence to link Ernest street with Bethel?

With regard to Elim, in 1933 a number of people left the Bethel churches or took their churches out of the Bethel movement, many of them joining the Assemblies of God, the Elim Pentecostal Church. I don't think Elim would have converted to Bethel after these doctrinal differences.

As to location of the walking photo, Cashy and others including you I believe Bob, have suggested opposite the top of Oxford street, the buildings between Fox street and Scaitcliffe street that no longer exist. As the other locations in Church that you suggest have also been demolished, does anyone have any old photos to lay this to rest?

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

LOL. Have just gone back and read it all again for about the 10th time. Got it now, Sue ! Phil's pictures outside the church and the one you put up of the 'Hyndburn R.C.Church' is obviously the same building. Phew.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Thanks Kate. You had your eyes open this time. :rolleyes::)

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

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Susie That was a patronising remark. Katex deserves better. At no time have I said that the 'church 'photos' were taken other than where you have surmised. I repeat that my doubts are concerned with - where was the 'walking' photo taken?.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Patronising, moi? it was meant to be funny and I'm sure Kate realises that. Hence the smilies at the end comme ca :rolleyes::)

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Sorry - I missed 'em.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

No, didn't take as the slightest bit patronising, Sue, just berated myself for having my stupid head on.:silly::) Thanks anyway, Bob, for what you thought was defending my honour... this went a long time ago :)

Hope someone comes up with a suitable 'photo of Church. Believe me, have googled in all sorts of languages .... expletives being at the top ... LOL.

One thing you said was about the tram lines .... wouldn't there have been tram lines on Blackburn Road at the top of Henry Street then ?

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Lots of good photo's here....

Lancashire Lantern | Subjects | Gallery

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Just a thought Bob, I wonder if a directory would give addresses for Accy Corporation offices, I know you have quoted from directories in past posts and wondered if you had any that went that far back. Or perhaps someone could pay a visit to the library?

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

A photo of my mother and her friends outside the chapel and the chapel after the fire, with the sign renown tyre something ltd.


Can we re establish the facts for clarity...

The "walkers" definately come from "The Bethel Chapel" situated in Gatty Park, not the Ernest st or Pitt st " Bethels", and which was burnt down in 1943.

The time will be sometime in the early 30's. My mum looks in her early 20's which would be about 1932..34..ish. In the attached photo my mum and one of her friends outside the chapel, are definately both in the "walking" photo.

The road looks like it might be on a Bus Route and one of the buildings has links with Accy corporation.

If they are heading towards Accrington (as most processions used to do on Blackburn rd), then the buildings are on the LEFT hand side of the rd, not the Right as was suggested earlier that it may be opposite the top of Oxford st.

We need photos showing the Blackburn rd /Henry st area in the 30's

The buildings have a smooth stone facia as oppoesed to the more rough stone facia on most of Blackburn Rd.

The road has cobbles and no tram lines...when was Blackburn rd tarmac'd?

There is a sign in the shop window just above the girls head next to the lamp post. What does it say... B....... about 7 letters.

The shop windows are painted out...maybe offices....with a small sign on the centre the right hand window.

There is a door on the left next to the large window.

Any other info I have missed?

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

The whole of the tramways ceased to run in August 1931.The tracks would be taken up soon afterwards.
The wooden board on the bungalow is an advert for Coulson's, slaters. I remember it well.
IF the procession headed from the park towards Church, it would likely turn into Henry St, then left onto Blackburn Rd, so we may be looking at a block on the Church side of the Queen's hall/Tudor cinema. On that block in 1951 there was a bank, newsagent and (in the middle) a hardware dealer. How can we get some Churchites interested in this thread/photo. ?

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Good summary Phil - where did you find the pic of the burnt chapel?

The shop could have blinds down as it was Sunday, rather than painted out windows.

Sign on the church - Renown Tyre & Rubber Co.

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Could this be it?
http://lanternimages.lancashire.gov....94&r=2&t=4&x=1

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Where is that Steve? Thought I'd been through all the Accy pics on Lancs Lantern :(:mad:

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

That is very very close...could well be....in fact I would stake my li....er my wifes life on it..

Count the stones above the shop window to the gutter, the bus stop is there.... the drain pipe is there....the double doorway is there....the window above the shop is there.....the jutting out stone below the gutter is there......the raised stone work to the right of the drainpipe is there.....

seems pretty conclusive to me....so where is it, the corner of Henry st and Blackburn rd?

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Cracked it! This is the same place... junction of Henry street and Blackburn road, Church. The shop in the walking pic is the one behind the lamp post on the lhs of the bank. See Steve's post for a closer view of the shop sadly boarded up.

So well done Bob for tying it down. The procession would have been coming down Henry street towards Blackburn road.

As an aside, I find the lantern site quite hard to find stuff on. A place search on Church did not bring up either Steve's or my picture. I had to do an advanced search on henry and Church to bring up Henry street, Church, and voila!

Steve how did you find your pic?

Anyway Phil I think we are there! The second pic below sums up my feelings!

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Er! thats what I said all along?????? Posts 65 and 72

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

I am convinced that this is the spot. The procession has passed (or exited) Ernest St from the Commercial and is about to pass or enter Henry St. Brilliant work Karateman & Steve2qec All we need now is to go through the Observers for the decade and ascertain the date

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Actually just revised my conclusions from the last post - think the corner in Steve's photo is opposite the one in my photo so the boarded up shop is on Blackburn Road and the procession is heading along Blackburn road towards Henry street. The shop next to the bank in my photo appears to have a moulding over the door which the one in the walking picture does not. Also the curved building on the right of the shop in Steve's photo has a window upstairs and no doorway which does not tie in with the bank in my photo.
Sorry if I misled anyone. :o:mad:

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Phil where did you find that photo of the burnt out church?

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Steve how did you find your pic?

Dogged determination!
I knew there were a few photo's on LL of the area that Bob mentioned.
I put the link on this aft hoping that one of you guys would do the legwork, but if you want a job doing right.....!!

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

From the person who currently lives in Ivy cottage.

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

One thing that is confusing me is this: If the procession came from Hyndburn Road then what are they doing at the "Blackburn side" of the bottom of Henry Street and walking towards Accy?.....or am I missing something?

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

So they are coming down Blackburn rd and are just about to cross the top of henry which is just out of picture to the right. In Steves pic you are looking down Henry st from blackburn rd....I think you can see the old police station in the distance next to the Stag pub. Wonder where they were coming from though.........Ossy I would think....oh no here we go again....LOL

Bob it must be 1930's. mum was born in 1912 and is third from left in white uniform and looks older than 18 or 19.

Phil

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

...unless they're walking to the chapel rather than from it?

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Another slack day at the office Steve?

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Of course, thanks Phil. Has she any more?

Re: Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade
 

Nope, posted the link for you this aft but did my trawling after tea!!