Help with Security Light?

[mantrabooks]

thanks for all the good advice I have now change the 13amp to a 3amp which makes me feel a whole lot better.
Cheers

[entwisi]

Originally Posted by Len

I suppose the trouble these days is that people do attempt Basic DIY such as Electrical wiring, car maintenance, Plumbing, building and construction and I suppose even cooking and I’ve no doubt all of the above, plus others could be potentially life threatening if not done by qualified people. Yet people do insist on doing things them selves.
So what do you do? Do you help if asked or just sit back and watch them set fire to their homes potentially killing everyone inside knowing that if only they had fitted a different fuse for instance, things would have turned out differently.

People have been doing basic electrical wiring/car maintainence etc for years. In fact I'd venture to say it is less prevalant now than say 20 years ago as in them days people couldn't afford to get the spark/plumber/mechanic out. Nowadays people have more disposible income, are less likely to have learned how to do stuff or in the case of cars you can't do anything as you need computer X to be able to find out whats wrong.

My Dad taught me all sorts of stuff. I was rebuilding car and bike engines when I was 10, I can do basic electrical, plumbing, etc without any problems. I'm happy to have a go at most things as at the end of the day it is down to common sense. I also make sure I know about what I am doing so such as teh correct fuse rating I know that power = volts * amps. hence knowing a light is 500W I can easily work out that it will draw just over 2A.

[Less]

Security lighting should be hard wired through a fused spur (preferably switched), taken from your ring main. Up to the spur the cable should be 2.5 mm twin & earth cable. After the spur and feeding the light the cable should be 1.5mm twin & earth.

Twin and earth cable should not, must not, be wired into a 13 amp plug! A 13 amp plug is designed to be used with flexible cable.

For your own and your families safety I will repeat:-

Get a qualified electrician to install the security light.

[Len]

Originally Posted by Less

Security lighting should be hard wired through a fused spur (preferably switched), taken from your ring main. Up to the spur the cable should be 2.5 mm twin & earth cable. After the spur and feeding the light the cable should be 1.5mm twin & earth.

Twin and earth cable should not, must not, be wired into a 13 amp plug! A 13 amp plug is designed to be used with flexible cable.

For your own and your families safety I will repeat:-

Get a qualified electrician to install the security light.

Thanks Less that is a very good description complete with specifications as to how security lighting should be fitted. Hopefully anyone considering fitting their own security lighting may see your post and now think twice about doing it for them selves as it is not really for the DIYer.


Iam a bit of a DIY man. Hehe
And I also advise no one to copy what I do.

I myself opted to use a 3pin plug for my project because 1… I couldn’t be bothered having to start moving furniture, lifting carpets and floor boards to gain access to the ring main. 2 … my security lighting isn’t going to be constantly fully on for 12 or 13 hours, in that case it would defiantly, I think need hard wiring, it’s only intended to be on for a minute or two at a time and I think, in that amount of time drawing 2 or 3 amps while the lamp is on full wack the wiring and plug to the lamp shouldn’t get to hot if at all and hopefully the fuse will protect from short circuits due to moisture, water, semi conductor failure (triacs, thyristors not sure which?) etc. I was also aware that 3pin plugs can get very hot while drawing current, due to such things as, having loose connections between the male and the female brass connectors this causes arcing between both brass connectors (potential fire) plus heat can also be generated between the two brass connectors by their very own impedance (resistance) not as dangerous as arcing but left over long periods could also equal Fire.

The wire I acquired for my project, well to be honest I didn’t have a clue which to buy as I am not an electrician, I don’t know the names or the gauges of all the different wires. I knew it wasn’t bell wire or telephone wire. Hehe So I went down to my local electrical shop told them what I was doing and they kindly sorted me out with a couple of meters of, hopefully the correct wire for the job and at a cost of about 60p or so.
I know what I have done is risky but I would love to know if it's ok.

I have no doubt that there are many other things that could go wrong while wiring up your own lamps. Maybe it would be a good idea if we could point out what some of the dangers are.
I wonder if any professional electricians do actually stick a plug on the end of a wire similar as to what I have done above.
If one has done that for you then let us know.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Len

I wonder if any professional electricians do actually stick a plug on the end of a wire similar as to what I have done above.
If one has done that for you then let us know.

Is that so we can recommend that no-one uses that elecetrician?

[Less]

It can be done with a 13 amp plug & be safe if everything else is correct, but lets face it the light isn't going to be moved so it should be done as a permanent fixture wherever possible.

A little knowledge makes us all very dangerous, I understand the basics of how an airliner works but I wouldn't presume that I can fly a load of passengers safely.

Electricity can be a wonderful servant, but if you ignore it's basic needs it can turn on you in very lethal ways. Anyone that on their own admission says 'it's a bit risky' is a fool to themselves and all around them!

anyone can throw a bit of wire around and say that will do but a competent electrician saves many lives by ensuring that what he has fitted is safe and secure for the person the property & the environment that the device has to work in.

There are pages and pages of what should and should not be done I have only skimmed the surface, so if someone else comes on and says for example, "Ah yes Less but what about an R.C.D.? ETC.", then I apologise but college lecturers get more money than me so if you want to know more attend a course I'm not going to give anything else away for nothing!


Can I just get back to what I said in my first post on the subject:-

If in doubt get a qualified electrician to do the job

[Len]

Originally Posted by entwisi

People have been doing basic electrical wiring/car maintainence etc for years. In fact I'd venture to say it is less prevalant now than say 20 years ago as in them days people couldn't afford to get the spark/plumber/mechanic out. Nowadays people have more disposible income, are less likely to have learned how to do stuff or in the case of cars you can't do anything as you need computer X to be able to find out whats wrong.

My Dad taught me all sorts of stuff. I was rebuilding car and bike engines when I was 10, I can do basic electrical, plumbing, etc without any problems. I'm happy to have a go at most things as at the end of the day it is down to common sense. I also make sure I know about what I am doing so such as teh correct fuse rating I know that power = volts * amps. hence knowing a light is 500W I can easily work out that it will draw just over 2A.

Its true is that; cars today are so complicated you don’t even have enough room in the engine compartment to put a spanner in so that you can remove a particular part from the engine, so you will probably have to remove all its gadget and stuff one by one so that you can gain access to the part that your are after, or even have to remove the engine from the chase to gain access. So I don’t do cars. hehe
The only things I suppose the DIYer can do for himself on their car are things like servicing and perhaps wheels and break maintenance but even breaks are more complicated than what they used to be but I bet some still replace pads etc.

I used to own an old BSA C15, 250cc motorcycle back in the late 70’s, I had it for two years. I had loads of good fun with that bike, brilliant it was, never run right but very easy to work on/ play with. Spent most of it’s time in my garage. hehe

I’ll tell you what thou, I don’t know about disposable income. I think it’s a case of…. Pay your bill with credit card and pay it back later, bit by bit syndrome (Debt). I don’t think anyone really has any spare cash.

[Len]

Originally Posted by Less

Electricity can be a wonderful servant, but if you ignore it's basic needs it can turn on you in very lethal ways. Anyone that on their own admission says 'it's a bit risky' is a fool to themselves and all around them!

anyone can throw a bit of wire around and say that will do but a competent electrician saves many lives by ensuring that what he has fitted is safe and secure for the person the property & the environment that the device has to work in.

There are pages and pages of what should and should not be done I have only skimmed the surface, so if someone else comes on and says for example, "Ah yes Less but what about an R.C.D.? ETC.", then I apologise but college lecturers get more money than me so if you want to know more attend a course I'm not going to give anything else away for nothing!


Can I just get back to what I said in my first post on the subject:-

If in doubt get a qualified electrician to do the job

Well said Less.
Brilliantly put ….. and all true, one cannot say much to that.
Nice one.

[Len]

Originally Posted by Neil

Is that so we can recommend that no-one uses that elecetrician?

That’s right Neil hehe
My reason is...is so that I can do it for a tenner... or so.

[Madhatter]

Originally Posted by Less

Security lighting should be hard wired through a fused spur (preferably switched), taken from your ring main. Up to the spur the cable should be 2.5 mm twin & earth cable. After the spur and feeding the light the cable should be 1.5mm twin & earth.

Twin and earth cable should not, must not, be wired into a 13 amp plug! A 13 amp plug is designed to be used with flexible cable.

For your own and your families safety I will repeat:-

Get a qualified electrician to install the security light.

Nice to see that someone knows what they're talking about Although 1mm twin and earth would do for 500 watt. There are other ways, you could connect it to an existing lighting circuit, but you'd have to know its existing load its about 1200 watt on 5 amp but thats changed now its 230v, you could feed it back to the fuse box and put it on a new trip. I'd put it on a plug and have done, because that was the easiest way and cheapest, the alternative would be too costly to have been done. done right its nearly as safe as it being fixed, the weak point being the plug of course. With all that taking it out and putting it in things become loose. If you've got a plug that runs hot it needs changing straight away, its faulty, I've just changed one, the fuse in the plug was loose in its socket, it over heated, melted the plug, the brass pin, and the insides of the socket, I changed the lot and its fine now. The main reason for doing it yourself with a plug is of course your not supposed to do it the fixed way yourself , Electrical wiring is now covered by part p of the building regs, which means most work other than simple socket replacements and lampholder replacements require that the person doing the work is part p registered. All bathroom and kitchen work must be done by a person who is part p registered. which is basically another way of the government getting more money out of us. I'm not part p registered at the moment, I only did weekend electrics, I drive in the week 1500 miles a week so no time, based on that i cant justify paying the registration fee, although i hear most of the cowboys are now part p registered while most of the weekend sparkies, the old boys who did jobs cheap for granmas have given up.

[Len]

Originally Posted by Madhatter

the old boys who did jobs cheap for granmas have given up.

You mentioned “the old boys who did jobs cheap for granmas have given up.”

Well that is another reason why DIYers do it for them selves. Prices professionals charge these days are ridiculous, I’m not saying all professionals but I bet most. A friend of mine was doing his home up a couple of years ago and they wanted to have three double sockets fitted, basically in a row above their kitchen work surface. So they hired an electrician to do the job for them, which was fine he did a good job. He wired the three double sockets horizontally in a row as requested at a give distance covering an area of about 1.5M, my friend had also supplied the sockets because thy were of a particular fancy design. He ran the wire up the wall and tapped into the ring main under the floor boards and also protected the cable by covering it with a length of u shaped plastic/ steel covering because the wall was going to be re-plastered after.
It took him about three hours to finish. He had done a fantastic job, everything nice and level etc. he charged them around £150, not a bad price really but when you think, that’s probably half a weeks wage for most people and for what.... 3 hours work. Hmm

I myself would love to be able to call in a Sparky/Plumber/car mechanic /washing machine repair man/ joiner/ plasterer etc etc . At the drop of a hat to do my small miner repairs, alterations etc but seeing that I may have to dish up half a weeks wages, or more for simple jobs and to the professional doing that job they must be easy. I would rather attempt doing them for myself and I do, often with good results. The bigger jobs that crop up now and then, I have no choice, I have to involve the professional and pay like everyone else, through the nose, thank god for credit cards because with them I can now pay what they demand and pay off my credit card over many, many months.
There must be a lot of jobs out there that need doing, but because of high prices and low wages they don’t get done.
I bet if tradesman lowers their prices to a more reasonable and fair price, like they did in the old days then they would get more work.

I don’t know but these days, it seems to me that nobody really wants to have loads of work (busy). They want to make as much money as they can on as little work/jobs as possible and to do that they have to charge high prices, hence the DIYer. But if people were to lower prices and make jobs more affordable to everyone then they would get more work, which would equal more money. but as I say they dont seem to want more work.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Madhatter

I'm not part p registered at the moment, I only did weekend electrics

What do you do as a job?

[Madhatter]

Nowdays I drive a little van about delivering one off parcels, hazardous goods mostly,chemicals, acids explosives, bullets, shot gun cartridges, I've done that for about 8 years now in the week. We own a small transport company, mainly high cube transits. I'm lazy and its easier than doing electrics all work, plus I had a double hernia, which made it impossible to do full time, as full time means no picking and choosing which jobs I could do, during that time I've always took on odd jobs as favours for people. Mostly jobs for the oldies, a cooker, or a flourescent lamp changing, Before I started driving I had my own electrical company, I'm a qualified electrician, C&G236part 1a 1b part2 and 236 4 31 in electronics, bit old now and could do with being updated at college but I keep up with the new regs still. Theres a load of other qualifications in various things I did to help run the business too machine assembly and operating or something like that, IT courses, bookkeeping courses, non of which actually bring cash in . Now Ive had my op and recovered and get settled with someone again I might go back update the qualifications get part p registered and earn some decent cash.

[park381]

Electrical Contractors spend more time filling in forms and certificates than doing the job these days. Section "P" of the Building Regulations is specific, it's there to stop the DIY man. Think about this one, to comply with section "P" if you are selling a house, you must have a current Electrical Test Certificate. All building surveyors are asking for test certificates on building society surveys

[Len]

Does that mean I’ll be goosed if I come to sell my home because I have done the odd, odd electrical job for my self?

I suppose I will have to have my electrical wiring tested at some point?