Help with Security Light? - Page 3

Len · 07-01-2006, 20:16

I just found this.

http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/partp.htm

I suppose it will also cost a small fortune to have things tested. You can’t win no matter what you do. hehe

park381 · 07-01-2006, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Len

Does that mean I’ll be goosed if I come to sell my home because I have done the odd, odd electrical job for my self?

I suppose I will have to have my electrical wiring tested at some point?

Afraid so, and more so if it's a terraced property. Unless it has been rewired in the last 12 months chances are it will not comply with current regulations. There is nothing stopping you from rewiring the house yourself providing it is done to comply with the current regulations, but get the installation tested by a registered electrical contractor.
http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/partp.cfm

park381 · 07-01-2006, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Len

I just found this.

http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/partp.htm

I suppose it will also cost a small fortune to have things tested. You can’t win no matter what you do. hehe

No it is now getting the same as Gas Installations, boilers etc.

Len · 07-01-2006, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by park381

Afraid so, and more so if it's a terraced property. Unless it has been rewired in the last 12 months chances are it will not comply with current regulations. There is nothing stopping you from rewiring the house yourself providing it is done to comply with the current regulations, but get the installation tested by a registered electrical contractor.
http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/partp.cfm

Thanks for that park318, much appreciated a good contribution.

You know, you try and save yourself some dosh but no matter what you do you’re still going to get stung. Even thou I’ve done a good and a safe job; it’s still going to cost. I bet the electricians are now happy = more big money, £30 call out and £40 inspection.
******!

Madhatter · 07-01-2006, 22:03

No theyre not happy, a lot are far from happy with, the cowboys have now got registered, once they're registered they get back on their horse and they're off again, but with a certificate that the public sees as a government approval that they aren't cowboys. The regs are a grey area, the iee wiring regs are now british standard, and any wiring should be to the regs, any electrician doing work to the regs is doing a good safe job even if not registered, the government in its wisdom has made it so you've got to be registered with the niceic or part p registered which again the main company is niceic, if i do any council work i have to be niceic, I even have to have a niceic electrician come in to test the supply I connect the christmas lights to, I cant do it, I'm not registered. Thats not part p registered its niceic registered, even if i got part p i still wouldnt be able to do it. Why is our government giving one company a monopoly.
The grey area is that your allowed to do basic non kitchen bathroom jobs, an extra socket, im not sure how an extra socket is basic cos i wouldnt class it as. but your allowed ye, its an addition with no test certificate, so how does that fit into it. then if you do bigger jobs the council building control is supposed to come out and inspect it, or thats the way i understand it, I suppose that means you'd have to pay for a test certificate first. Only problem is the council havent got the budget, the manpower or knowledge. Answer from the council is just doit, we dont wanna know. Then theres existing installations, how do they know when it was done. How do they know it was done after part p came into force or before when old colour cable is used.
SO what grounds have they got to insist on proof that works been done by a part p approved contractor when the house comes up for sale or other circumstances arise. You get the whole lot tested it passes or fails. What fails gets corrected.
Maybe I'm missing something but I just dont get what the point of it all is.

Less · 07-01-2006, 23:46

Yes it's all supposed to make things harder for the cowboy but it is similar to the results that happened in the early 90's when portable appliance testing was introduced, I had to go on a course to learn the in's & out's (mainly paperwork), one of the rules is that portable appliance testing must be carried out by a 'competent' engineer we asked what they meant by competent & were told thereis no actual definition the person just had to be 'competent'!
I was in charge of all electrical & electronic equipment at the company because I was the workshop manager.
I was on staff so no overtime pay for me we had over a thousand items of equipment that needed to be tested and entered into a log over about 6 weekends.
Health & Safety called around on one of their visits and because it was a new law asked to see the log, they went away happy (yippee I'm competent), The managing director wanted a small extention building on the factory so had to apply to blackburn council for planning permission, their building inspector called and amongst other things wanted to see the Pat testing log, He then said because I wasn't NICEIC registered I wasn't competent to carry out the tests.
I showed him proof of the course I'd been on all my qualifications and the report from the Heath and safety stating that the log was satisfactory.
He just turned round and said as far as he was concerned because I wasn't NICEIC registered I wasn't competent, and if he found me doing anymore portable appliance work within the boundaries of Blackburn I and my employer would be fined.
My employer enquired to H&S they confirmed that I was competent so my boss cancelled his application for an extension and instead moved out of Blackburn, never to have that problem again!

Madhatter · 08-01-2006, 00:00

So its not just me then. even If I had the latest Qualifications I still wouldnt be able to test that socket because I'm not niceic registered. Thing that I don't get is how can they insist on it. In your case it was proved you are competent, but they wont accept it, In my case I'm qualified so I'm competant but they wont accept it, and they insist on you belonging to a trade organisation. If you joined one of the other trade organisations you still wouldn't be competant. Who the hell gives these councils the right to choose which trade organisation being a member of means your competant, on our behalf. Thats taking my choice away

Madhatter · 08-01-2006, 00:05

And if it goes to court who's right less, is the council or the H&S. I'd bet the court would go with H&S.
You know what else, I think if i did get niceic registered they'd still stop me doing it, cos they'd say id be biased in my test results because the test is for my lights socket. Infact thats probably why they didnt want you doing it, thought youd let things pass that shouldn't.

Less · 08-01-2006, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhatter

And if it goes to court who's right less, is the council or the H&S. I'd bet the court would go with H&S.
You know what else, I think if i did get niceic registered they'd still stop me doing it, cos they'd say id be biased in my test results because the test is for my lights socket. Infact thats probably why they didnt want you doing it, thought youd let things pass that shouldn't.

The whole idea is that the qualified person issues a 'Self Certification', which means that he is then responsible for any work carried out before and up to the work he has done anything added afterwards then tranfers the responsibility on to the next person.

So far as 'competent' is concerned however, at one factory I worked at recently they had a contractor in to do the portable appliance testing, we had a variable d.c. power supply for testing components, his description for that was 'transformer' because he didn't know what it was!

park381 · 08-01-2006, 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhatter

No theyre not happy, a lot are far from happy with, the cowboys have now got registered, once they're registered they get back on their horse and they're off again, but with a certificate that the public sees as a government approval that they aren't cowboys. The regs are a grey area, the iee wiring regs are now british standard, and any wiring should be to the regs, any electrician doing work to the regs is doing a good safe job even if not registered, the government in its wisdom has made it so you've got to be registered with the niceic or part p registered which again the main company is niceic, if i do any council work i have to be niceic, I even have to have a niceic electrician come in to test the supply I connect the christmas lights to, I cant do it, I'm not registered. Thats not part p registered its niceic registered, even if i got part p i still wouldnt be able to do it. Why is our government giving one company a monopoly.
The grey area is that your allowed to do basic non kitchen bathroom jobs, an extra socket, im not sure how an extra socket is basic cos i wouldnt class it as. but your allowed ye, its an addition with no test certificate, so how does that fit into it. then if you do bigger jobs the council building control is supposed to come out and inspect it, or thats the way i understand it, I suppose that means you'd have to pay for a test certificate first. Only problem is the council havent got the budget, the manpower or knowledge. Answer from the council is just doit, we dont wanna know. Then theres existing installations, how do they know when it was done. How do they know it was done after part p came into force or before when old colour cable is used.
SO what grounds have they got to insist on proof that works been done by a part p approved contractor when the house comes up for sale or other circumstances arise. You get the whole lot tested it passes or fails. What fails gets corrected.
Maybe I'm missing something but I just dont get what the point of it all is.

The NICEIC thing is a council requirement, that is they require any Electrical Contractor doing work for them to be NICEIC registered. Part "p" of the building regulations applies to electrical installations in houses only.
As for local building control, they rely on the "Test Certificate" being produced by the contractor.

A little more information
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1130907

Madhatter · 09-01-2006, 19:40

I'll read up on it and bore myself to death. I read it all once and forgot it. I'm not sure it's even enforcable, and I'm not sure I want to register, Any sparkie that works for a firm thats niceic registered automatically is also and automatically is part p registered too. He may be on his first day at a new work placement on a college course for all you know. Also reading that any repairs or maintenance work doesnt need it, extra sockets don't apart from in a bathroom, kitchen or outside. A shed on a plug and socket doesn't, which is what people will end up doing.
I just can't see the benefits to us sparkies or to the customers.

ponky · 05-11-2012, 20:29

can you get a security light with just a plug on just to plug it in

RainbowSix · 13-11-2012, 07:56

Yes but the cable is not very long, how long do you want it?

(/me waits for "I want to keep it")

Less · 13-11-2012, 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainbowSix

Yes but the cable is not very long, how long do you want it?

(/me waits for "I want to keep it")

Not recommended to have an outdoor security light connected via an extension lead, better that it is installed by a skilled electrician with a 'P' certificate rating.