Air Rifles!

[Neil]

Originally Posted by katex

Did you read the article in the Observer this week, about the shooting of pet ducks.... a good reason for laws on this.

Police hunt for thugs who shot dead nine ducks | Accrington Observer - menmedia.co.uk

No its not, someone could have killed them with a pointy stick or by throwing rocks at them.

Its a good example of how people pick on an incident and then want to legislate against that incident when we already have laws covering it.

It was in a public place, they did not have permission to shoot there, they did not have permission to shoot the ducks.

Already covered by the law, those responsible should be locked up.

I read the article and I could jump to conclusions about who would want 6 ducks and some scrap metal but I am sure most people reading it will have thought the same thing.

[annesingleton]

Originally Posted by Neil

I don't agree that air rifles are made for no other purpose than to cause harm. You can cause harm with almost any item, the difference is down a person deciding if they want to cause harm or not.

I suspect that most air rifle in this country are used for target shooting.

An air rifle is not designed to shoot people, it is for vermin control and anything bigger than a rabbit should not be shot with an air rifle under 12 ft/lbs and then only at a maximum distance of about 30 yards.

If I wanted to kill someone the last thing I would use is an air rifle, I would be better off using it as a club than shooting them.

The problem with our gun laws in the UK is that they are made by politicians reacting to gun crime incidents that have happened. They should be made by unbiased people who are not trying to get re elected. Since the ban on legal hand gun ownership gun crime has increased not decreased. It was a complete waste of money by the government of the time and any intelligent person must have known that at the time.

An air rifle is a weapon and is designed to cause destruction. I would not want to know anyone who could justify its use.
In my work we do a very effective weapons awareness programme, perhaps it should be rolled out more broadly?

[kestrelx]

Originally Posted by Neil

I don't agree that air rifles are made for no other purpose than to cause harm. You can cause harm with almost any item, the difference is down a person deciding if they want to cause harm or not.

I suspect that most air rifle in this country are used for target shooting.

Air rifles are for target practice and small pest control; rats, squirrels, pigeons, crows - usually from a hide.

An air rifle is not designed to shoot people, it is for vermin control and anything bigger than a rabbit should not be shot with an air rifle under 12 ft/lbs and then only at a maximum distance of about 30 yards.

If I wanted to kill someone the last thing I would use is an air rifle, I would be better off using it as a club than shooting them.

It's the people with criminal tendencies who may use one as a decoy weapon or use it to maime someone as a form of attack or intimidation - these sorts are the problem.

The problem with our gun laws in the UK is that they are made by politicians reacting to gun crime incidents that have happened. They should be made by unbiased people who are not trying to get re elected. Since the ban on legal hand gun ownership gun crime has increased not decreased. It was a complete waste of money by the government of the time and any intelligent person must have known that at the time.

Are you sure? 2 recent well known cases of people using legally owned weapons to kill members of their family both had gun licences!

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Neil

I don't agree that air rifles are made for no other purpose than to cause harm. You can cause harm with almost any item, the difference is down a person deciding if they want to cause harm or not.

I suspect that most air rifle in this country are used for target shooting.

An air rifle is not designed to shoot people, it is for vermin control and anything bigger than a rabbit should not be shot with an air rifle under 12 ft/lbs and then only at a maximum distance of about 30 yards.

If I wanted to kill someone the last thing I would use is an air rifle, I would be better off using it as a club than shooting them.

The problem with our gun laws in the UK is that they are made by politicians reacting to gun crime incidents that have happened. They should be made by unbiased people who are not trying to get re elected. Since the ban on legal hand gun ownership gun crime has increased not decreased. It was a complete waste of money by the government of the time and any intelligent person must have known that at the time.

Colin Greenwood an ex Chief Inspector of Police created a report for the Fire Arms Committe in 1966, in which he proved that every time we had a change to the fire arms act, gun crime increased.
All the countries with the strictest gun laws, have the worst gun crime rates.
In America those states which allow a concealed weapon permit, have the least gun crime.
It would no longer work in this country, lack of education, brainwashing, and propoganda.

After the Dumblane incident, one clever interviewer on TV, was questioning one of the two members of the British Pisol team, when she said "you go about equipped to be a murderer", his responce was, "you go about equipped to be a prostitute are you one", she left the set dammed quick, with a red face.

Retlaw.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by kestrelx

Are you sure? 2 recent well known cases of people using legally owned weapons to kill members of their family both had gun licences!

Now you are really scrapping the bottom of the barrel to try and make a point, 2 poeple out of near 1 million registered fire arms holders. There are more who die by negligence in hospitals every day, than have died by gun crime, but they seldom make glaring news headlines.
Retlaw.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by annesingleton

An air rifle is a weapon and is designed to cause destruction.

That is a typical statement from someone with little knowledge on the subject.
I could say the same about a brick.

Originally Posted by annesingleton

I would not want to know anyone who could justify its use.

Its use has been justified in previous posts but you can only think of criminal uses.

Originally Posted by annesingleton

In my work we do a very effective weapons awareness programme, perhaps it should be rolled out more broadly?

I agree, a big problem in the UK is the lack of gun education.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by kestrelx

Are you sure? 2 recent well known cases of people using legally owned weapons to kill members of their family both had gun licences!

Which 2 cases do you mean?

[cashman]

Originally Posted by katex

Did you read the article in the Observer this week, about the shooting of pet ducks.... a good reason for laws on this.

Police hunt for thugs who shot dead nine ducks | Accrington Observer - menmedia.co.uk

Why should people take a blind bit of notice of owt that paper prints Kate? With the complete garbage n lies they have recently,is why i make that point.

[kestrelx]

Originally Posted by Neil

Which 2 cases do you mean?

Derrick Bird and Michael Atherton - Man who shot three women held gun licence | UK news | guardian.co.uk

[kestrelx]

Originally Posted by annesingleton

An air rifle is a weapon and is designed to cause destruction. I would not want to know anyone who could justify its use.
In my work we do a very effective weapons awareness programme, perhaps it should be rolled out more broadly?

Air guns used to be as established in the "boys" toy cupboard as catapults and footballs. Not saying it's right but in the 60's and 70's a large percentage of lads had them.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by susie123

Hear hear Neil, very well said.

Ya I agree too susie, twas a knee jerk reaction at the time, ill thought out before legislation, no amount of legislation is going bother the criminal element one bit.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by kestrelx

Air guns used to be as established in the "boys" toy cupboard as catapults and footballs. Not saying it's right but in the 60's and 70's a large percentage of lads had them.

Out of my group of mates of about 20 when I was young only one had an air rifle, 5% isn't large

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by annesingleton

An air rifle is a weapon and is designed to cause destruction.

AIRGUN SHOOTING CLUBS AND SUPPLIERS (paragraph 2)

I'm sorry, but your comment is absolute guff, I've stayed out of the debate until now but your "hysterical sensationalist" comment has encouraged me to post. I first went shooting at about 13 with my father, using shotguns to take game for the table. Discipline, weapon handling & safety were drilled into us (my brother & myself) constantly, by my father.

I then went on to join the Military were weapons, their handling & use were an everyday occurrence. During this time I built up a great respect, knowledge & interest of various weaponry to the point I ended up in charge of the Unit armoury for my last two years. While serving I deployed on various tours were live ammunition was ever present & loaded into our weapons. Usually the only time those weapons were discharged were on a range & under controlled supervision.

I'm long since out of the Military but I still have an interest in weaponry & shooting, I own 2 Air rifles of varying quality & two air pistols also of varying quality. Most of the time the are safely tucked away but on occasion they are dusted off & a little target shooting is partaken of. I enjoy the pleasure it gives me & when people come here who also have an interest in shooting, we chat, compare notes & indulge in a little competition shooting.

So does my description of my air rifle usage come anywhere near your presumption Anne ?

[susie123]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

AIRGUN SHOOTING CLUBS AND SUPPLIERS
I first went shooting at about 13 with my father, using shotguns to take game for the table. Discipline, weapon handling & safety were drilled into us (my brother & myself) constantly, by my father.

Good to hear from someone with a bit of experience who knows what he's talking about. The absolute key as you pointed out is experience at a young age and good supervision to get across the safety aspects.

I do agree with Kestrel about airguns being almost part of a kid's toybox years ago, at least that's the way it seemed to me and the link you posted seems to agree:

The "Airgun" was the gun most of todays shooting enthusiasts cut their teeth on. Although once considered a "toy" they have come a long way since those days and can no longer be put into that category.

MY brother had handguns for competitive shooting till the idiocy surrounding Dunblane scuppered that, and my partner has always had shotguns for clay pigeon and game shooting, so I am comfortable with the thought of guns and get very annoyed at some of the hysteria generated by the media and others, especially when it leads to kneejerk laws, no amount of which will legislate away incidents like the Derrick Bird shootings in Cumbria.

I was interested in the following from the link you posted:

A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place

(1) a loaded shotgun

(b) an airgun (whether loaded or not)

(c) any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or

(d) an imitation firearm.

It seems you can carry an empty shotgun in the street but not an empty airgun. Bizarre! Or is the above badly worded and an unloaded shotgun comes under (c) above?

Anyway Dave thanks for that post.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by susie123

A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place

(1) a loaded shotgun

(b) an airgun (whether loaded or not)

(c) any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or

(d) an imitation firearm.

It seems you can carry an empty shotgun in the street but not an empty airgun. Bizarre! Or is the above badly worded and an unloaded shotgun comes under (c) above?

It is badly worded, it should have included the words in a suitable carrying case.
If you have a Fire arm, & a certificate to verify that you are the owner, then as long as it is a case, and you are proceeding to or from a designated shooting place, then its perfectly legal to be in a public place,
An air pistol or rifle within the required legal power, in a case, is also legal if that person is 18 years of age, or over.
You will find the Fire Arms Act on the web site of Cybershooters.
Retlaw