Another Labour Councillor defects

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Well if Councillors keep on deserting the parties we could have a council of independents sometime soon.

I dont think that is a bad thing....do away the cabinet system and open the doors to democracy.

[Bernard Dawson]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Well if Councillors keep on deserting the parties we could have a council of independents sometime soon.

The independent councillors on Hyndburn Council Gayle operate as a political group.

At budget time they put an alternative budget forward as an independent group.They more often than not vote as an independent group.At election time they put out literature as an independent group.

I suppose it depends on how you would define indpendant. But for me if you operate as political group,then you are clearly not independent.

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

The independent councillors on Hyndburn Council Gayle operate as a political group.

At budget time they put an alternative budget forward as an independent group.They more often than not vote as an independent group.At election time they put out literature as an independent group.

I suppose it depends on how you would define indpendant. But for me if you operate as political group,then you are clearly not independent.

That is surely a play on words...........what is the difference between a group of laboiur councillors and a group of independants.

[Bernard Dawson]

Originally Posted by Royboy39

That is surely a play on words...........what is the difference between a group of laboiur councillors and a group of independants.

How can you be independent Roy when you vote as a group?

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

How can you be independent Roy when you vote as a group?

How can you be a representative of the people who vote for if you vote for the Party instead of your own beliefs,?
Independants vote for what is right without guidance from anyone.
If they get their heads together to defeat a motion which they dont agree with........thats democracy....whats wrong with that?

[Bernard Dawson]

Originally Posted by

How can you be a representative of the people who vote for if you vote for the Party instead of your own beliefs,?
Independants vote for what is right without guidance from anyone.
If they get their heads together to defeat a motion which they dont agree with........thats democracy....whats wrong with that?

I have no problem with them getting their collective heads together to vote on any issue. But I would respectively ask whether that is being truly independent.

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

I have no problem with them getting their collective heads together to vote on any issue. But I would respectively ask whether that is being truly independent.

With respect....I dont think thats that's credible....it is the enemy...treat them with respect.....or you find yourself and many others on the fringes. or out of office.
Never underestimate the opposition in whatever guise... they might bite you. If you or any of your Labour friends try to undermine the independants you may come unstuck big time.
Being a Labour Councillor at this moment in time is not a very secure position to be in.
Take stock of what you have got...at the moment...it wont last.

[Bernard Dawson]

Originally Posted by Royboy39

With respect....I dont think thats that's credible....it is the enemy...treat them with respect.....or you find yourself and many others on the fringes. or out of office.
Never underestimate the opposition in whatever guise... they might bite you. If you or any of your Labour friends try to undermine the independants you may come unstuck big time.
Being a Labour Councillor at this moment in time is not a very secure position to be in.
Take stock of what you have got...at the moment...it wont last.

Roy I am not trying to undermine anybody. Insidenty I get on very well with all the independent members on the Council

I would also add that I have no problem with councilors who chose to be independent.

My problem is how can you be truly independent when you are part of a group.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

The independent councillors on Hyndburn Council Gayle operate as a political group.

At budget time they put an alternative budget forward as an independent group.They more often than not vote as an independent group.At election time they put out literature as an independent group.

I suppose it depends on how you would define indpendant. But for me if you operate as political group,then you are clearly not independent.

Well Bernard I find myself agreeing with you, the only thing I want to add is that if their were no political affiliated parties in local government, Tory Labour, Lib/dem, then I feel sure the community would get a better deal. We have both been involved in politics for many years and whilst their is political point scoring going on all the time, its the GP that suffer in the long run. You know as well as I do that this DOES go on and we're all guilty of that

[Bernard Dawson]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Well Bernard I find myself agreeing with you, the only thing I want to add is that if their were no political affiliated parties in local government, Tory Labour, Lib/dem, then I feel sure the community would get a better deal. We have both been involved in politics for many years and whilst their is political point scoring going on all the time, its the GP that suffer in the long run. You know as well as I do that this DOES go on and we're all guilty of that

I don't nessaarly disagree with you, but do you also get a lot of cross party working on the council . It just doesn't always get reported.

On the question of independent councillors, I am convinced that if you could ever get situation were you had 35 independent councillors, it wouldn't take long for groups of various description to start forming. Probably got something to do with human nature.

It used to be said you might remember that if you put 3 councillors together they would form a committee. I think it's the same thing.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but do you also get a lot of cross party working on the council . It just doesn't always get reported.

On the question of independent councillors, I am convinced that if you could ever get situation were you had 35 independent councillors, it wouldn't take long for groups of various description to start forming. Probably got something to do with human nature.

It used to be said you might remember that if you put 3 councillors together they would form a committee. I think it's the same thing.

Well that will always occur Barnard, and the fact there is cross party work doesn't make good copyas for the three councillors I thought you where coming with the old Lib/Dem joke, 3 Lib/Dems on a committee is ideal, one to vote for, one to vote against and the other to abstain

[g jones]

I think it is all blown out of proportion. All Councillors work together 95% of the time. It is just not reported. In most cases Councillors of any flag do exactly the same 95% of the time. In most situations you would not tell if a Councillor was Labour Tory or Independent without being told.

For the remaining 5% it is important there is sense of direction. Independents mean there is never a positive forward agenda. They can't as they are Independent. Their free spirit amounts to pulling what exists to bits and loose promises. Political parties put to one side the sniping by Independents and make a commitment to work together to go forward.

That's why the Independents got together and put a collective budget forward acting as a Party this year and ended up debating their's verses other's.

Without groups, there is chaos. On Councils with rainbow coalitions there is often chaos and the public are even more poorly served.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by g jones

I think it is all blown out of proportion. All Councillors work together 95% of the time. It is just not reported. In most cases Councillors of any flag do exactly the same 95% of the time. In most situations you would not tell if a Councillor was Labour Tory or Independent without being told.

For the remaining 5% it is important there is sense of direction. Independents mean there is never a positive forward agenda. They can't as they are Independent. Their free spirit amounts to pulling what exists to bits and loose promises. Political parties put to one side the sniping by Independents and make a commitment to work together to go forward.

That's why the Independents got together and put a collective budget forward acting as a Party this year and ended up debating their's verses other's.

Without groups, there is chaos. On Councils with rainbow coalitions there is often chaos and the public are even more poorly served.

Good grief, my recent illness must have been much more serious than I thought, I actually agree with a lot of what you say Graham, but I still think that taking "political parties" out of local government would be a plus, but as you say, there will always be groups, but none political groups just working for the good of the community would be so much better. with 35 councillors (used to be 47) your never going to get everybody to agree all the time, won't, no can't happen, but by taking away political animosity your in with a fighting chance

[Bernard Dawson]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Good grief, my recent illness must have been much more serious than I thought, I actually agree with a lot of what you say Graham, but I still think that taking "political parties" out of local government would be a plus, but as you say, there will always be groups, but none political groups just working for the good of the community would be so much better. with 35 councillors (used to be 47) your never going to get everybody to agree all the time, won't, no can't happen, but by taking away political animosity your in with a fighting chance

All councillors Jaysay would argue that they try to work for the good of the community.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

All councillors Jaysay would argue that they try to work for the good of the community.

Quit Bernard, but you must agree that politics does get in the way sometimes