Keeping Dead Industries Alive.... - Page 2

Eric · 13-04-2013, 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Restless

much!

I'm a workin' on it ... Not 'cause I enjoy it .... just don't wanna see brewing and distilling becoming "dead industries"

Must be getting there ... I'm watching WWE Friday Night Smackdown

Restless · 13-04-2013, 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

I'm a workin' on it ... Not 'cause I enjoy it .... just don't wanna see brewing and distilling becoming "dead industries"

Must be getting there ... I'm watching WWE Friday Night Smackdown

Hell- Im I wrestling fan and Im not watching that!

GEaston · 13-04-2013, 01:05

I'm aware that to an extent this forum is a branch of the Lenin supporters club, I'm just curious who here is prepared to debate, and who wont.

Less - Pro and anti Maggie factions? So far as I can see it was just me and one other guy who were pro, so that's not much of a faction. You are correct that it's not yet a debate, but only because debate is a new concept here. I get that people use the forum more as a collective place to mourn the loss of mother Russia, anything else not being welcome.

Guiness - it's not a conservative critique, it's a factual one. I'm all ears as to how it's misguided, factually wrong or misleading. Failing that tell me you think it's right that the govt should pay $1.2m a day for the privilege of keeping people down mines. To do any of that though you'd have to read my post.....therein lies the problem.

Cashman - Good luck

Cmonstanley - yes we do import a lot of coal, as we are net importers of energy but overseas coal was cheap and always has been. As is the case with so many industries we could not compete on labour costs, and coal imported and shipped from South America was 15 pounds a ton cheaper bought and landed to a dock than mined.

Eric - coal pollution technology has improved a lot, but it remains the most polluting of all fuels. Coal emits almost a third more carbon dioxide per unit of energy than oil, and 70% more than natural gas BBC News - Coal resurgence calls undermine clean energy commitments The real problem with this is that China is solely powered by Coal and a new (non-clean tech) coal power station comes on line each week. Any efforts the west makes to stay clean (Carbon Tax etc) are well intended but pointless.

Restless · 13-04-2013, 01:12

heavy s**t for 2am on a fri night/sat morn.... .geeeeeese

Eric · 13-04-2013, 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Restless

Hell- Im I wrestling fan and Im not watching that!

It's soap opera for men ... I guess that we're all supposed to be Lenin supporters ... Lenin isn't wrestling tonite, just the Big Show and Randy Orton.

Wrasslin' migh be fake, but no more fake than throwing out a bs argument and expecting folks to take it seriously.

Hell ... it's a handicap match: Sheamus and the Viper against the Big Show. Much more fun than trying to think about coal mining as a dead industry ... I'll think more about that in summer when we get the smog from the coal-fired generating plants in Ohio

Eric · 13-04-2013, 01:33

By the way, am I the only one who resents being stereotyped by a right-wing ideologue who can reduce the destruction of a way of life for tens of thousands, into a question of the dollar value of a ton of coal?

Eric · 13-04-2013, 01:45

By the by, heard on the CBC news tonite that the coal mining industry in BC is expanding so quickly that they are hiring miners from China to keep up with the demand for experienced workers.

The coal mining industry in the UK didn't die naturally. Thatcher killed it.

Mog · 13-04-2013, 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEaston

I'm aware that to an extent this forum is a branch of the Lenin supporters club, I'm just curious who here is prepared to debate, and who wont.

Less - Pro and anti Maggie factions? So far as I can see it was just me and one other guy who were pro, so that's not much of a faction. You are correct that it's not yet a debate, but only because debate is a new concept here. I get that people use the forum more as a collective place to mourn the loss of mother Russia, anything else not being welcome.

Guiness - it's not a conservative critique, it's a factual one. I'm all ears as to how it's misguided, factually wrong or misleading. Failing that tell me you think it's right that the govt should pay $1.2m a day for the privilege of keeping people down mines. To do any of that though you'd have to read my post.....therein lies the problem.

Cashman - Good luck

Cmonstanley - yes we do import a lot of coal, as we are net importers of energy but overseas coal was cheap and always has been. As is the case with so many industries we could not compete on labour costs, and coal imported and shipped from South America was 15 pounds a ton cheaper bought and landed to a dock than mined.

Eric - coal pollution technology has improved a lot, but it remains the most polluting of all fuels. Coal emits almost a third more carbon dioxide per unit of energy than oil, and 70% more than natural gas BBC News - Coal resurgence calls undermine clean energy commitments The real problem with this is that China is solely powered by Coal and a new (non-clean tech) coal power station comes on line each week. Any efforts the west makes to stay clean (Carbon Tax etc) are well intended but pointless.

Thatcher Came to power promising to bring harmony where there was discord. In the mining communities up and down the country,she bought the opposit. She believed we were no longer any use to the nation because we insisted on running safe coal mines in this country. One of the great disgraces of this country today is we import over 50 million tonnes of coal a year from countries where men are killed, literally in the thousands, and we closed our industry that was the safest, the most technlogically advanced in the world. Thatchers lack of empathy, her intrangsigence, her failure to see the other side, her refusal to even look at the other side, has left people bitter and resentful, and hitting out in a way that is uncharacteristic of the miners in our community. Her accusation that the "enemy within" was in the mining areas of this country, still rankles people. I wasnt the "Enemy Within" All we ever wanted was the right to work. We didnt just want it for ourselves; we wanted it for our kids and that was taken away. Coal was cheap and always was cheap from overseas. Cheap in terms of What price do you put on a human being. We had the safest coal mines anywhere in the world. What else do you expect in this country of mine. Did you want an industry where the pit boss decides at the start of the shift how many men shall we kill today, and by the way WHO will be killed. I think by now most of you guys know that I spent 31 years in the coal mines. Started as a boy and ended my career as a mine manager. I have met many people like you GEaston in my time. I would have loved having you down Bankhall Colliery in 1962. You with your stuck up better than thou attitude is why we had to change the Mines. You Mister would have been sent Up Duke Bar.

Boeing Guy · 13-04-2013, 06:44

The problem is that consumers in general want cheap, Primark anyone?
In the 70's BL plants and for that matter Ford and Vauxhall had car parks full of Japanese cars, if the workers on the production lines cannot be bothered to buy the stuff the make, why should anyone else.
It maybe tat successive governments have lots to blame, but the gold old general public must shoulder their part

Guinness · 13-04-2013, 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEaston

I'm aware that to an extent this forum is a branch of the Lenin supporters club, I'm just curious who here is prepared to debate, and who wont.

Guiness - it's not a conservative critique, it's a factual one. I'm all ears as to how it's misguided, factually wrong or misleading. Failing that tell me you think it's right that the govt should pay $1.2m a day for the privilege of keeping people down mines. To do any of that though you'd have to read my post.....therein lies the problem.

Oh I read it, and stand by my claim that its a tory critique, I'm not a leninist, communist or maoist. I'm a socialist which unfortunately means I have no political party representing me since Blair pretty much turned the Labour Party into a left wing Conservative Party...but back on thread...

Look at the figures quoted in your link...

£44 a ton if we mine it
£32 a ton if we buy it

That £32 has left the country, it is no longer ours, its gone, forever.....some of the £44 however is spent in our shops, on our shores and stays in the country boosting our economy, it also employs people, allows them to put a roof over their heads and put food on their tables.

In order to destroy the mines, divide and annihilate whole communities the taxpayer had to stump up £2.5 billion, which according to my maths means that the country could have continued subsidising these mines for another 7 years or so. There was a technological revolution occuring at the time, my guess is that some of that technology would have been used in mining in order to reduce production costs.

As Mog posted, another reason it cost £44 for us to mine was down to our mines being the safest in the world, an extra £12 per ton for ensuring human lives are saved don't seem all that much to pay from my taxes.

Not even going to add the cost to the taxpayer of unemployment benefit for those who lost jobs when the industry was dismantled

The human and financial cost of the destruction of this industry is far greater than the financial cost of retaining it.

Less · 13-04-2013, 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEaston

Less - Pro and anti Maggie factions? So far as I can see it was just me and one other guy who were pro, so that's not much of a faction. You are correct that it's not yet a debate, but only because debate is a new concept here. I get that people use the forum more as a collective place to mourn the loss of mother Russia, anything else not being welcome.

So far as you can see? Should have gone to specsavers.

It wasn't even the start of a debate, to start a debate you have to put forward your own point of view not someone else's.

What a narrow point of view you have, the forum is full of communists just because you don't agree with others having the same rights to 'debate' as you?
How do you define debate? Does it go somewhere along the lines of listen to me, I'm going to tell you something and no matter what I say you had better believe me without question.
The forum isn't perfect it never will be, but that's because it's members are diverse and put forward diverse points of view, even your two penneth is welcome.

cmonstanley · 13-04-2013, 08:15

i think he is on the wind up

im popping past hunterston next week ill take a photo.we are importing from south america and greece as there is 2 coal ships anchored off the coast at the moment and they are huge.

jaysay · 13-04-2013, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

well we import millions of tons of coal every year ,so whatever companies that are buying them are letting millions of pounds leave the country minus tax collected from miners wages so it is costing more importing coal.i see at least ten cargo ships a week full of coal being emptied at Hunterston,the deepest inshore port in britain. The coal is piled up in huge heaps just now as a coal ship from south america has landed.i see a coal train leave there every hour.

You lost the agreement in the first jumble of words, you don't write sentences. We can import coal a hell of a sight cheaper than bring it out of the ground here, end of chat.

Less · 13-04-2013, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

You lost the agreement in the first jumble of words, you don't write sentences. We can import coal a hell of a sight cheaper than bring it out of the ground here, end of chat.

Just going to do a google on you here:-

Did You mean

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

You lost the argument in the first jumble of words, you don't write sentences. We can import coal a hell of a sight cheaper than bring it out of the ground here, end of chat.

Guinness · 13-04-2013, 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

You lost the agreement in the first jumble of words, you don't write sentences. We can import coal a hell of a sight cheaper than bring it out of the ground here, end of chat.

We can also look after sick people in hospital a damn sight cheaper if we top and tail them two to a bed instead of having one bed each.....doesn't make it the right thing to do