Browser Woes?

entwisi said:
Legally the site owner has to make the site accessible for all.

IE is well known for being broken on many of the W3C standards. IIRC there is a checker somewhere that checks how well a browser performs. IE5 gets 0/12, IE6 gets 1/12, Mozilla gets 12, so does opera.

A site should be tested in at minimum IE, Mozilla(Netscape) & Opera.

If it doesn't work equally well in these then you have not done the job right.
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It wasn't inaccessible. It was only that some of the fonts which he'd chosen didn't show up as the same fonts when viewed through (by?) Moxilla. He had the fonts on his PC and I could see them on Internet Explorer but someone else using Moxilla saw them differently.

I must admit that I know very little on the subject and have simply gone along with the IE6 (I think) which came along with my PC.
 
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I must admit that I know very little on the subject and have simply gone along with the IE6 (I think) which came along with my PC.
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Well I know a lot on the subject and thats my browser of choice as well :)

I also use Opera for when I am out and about with the laptop.. Its one click to make it not show pictures and thus speed up the pages which is needed when using a mobile phone... I also have other browsers for testing my work on (no I dont make websites) But my everyday browser of choice is always IE 3/4/5 and now 6
 
Do you have more than one browser on the same PC? I was wondering about possible compatibility problems and if any of them are likely to cause difficulties with AOL.

Don't tell me to ditch AOL lol because I actually like it although I have had other people tell me that alternatives are better. I like the new features on AOL9 and admit to enjoying the quiz rooms.
 
All browsers on same PC .. it doesnt matter.. just like you can have more than one of any software.

Can't say I like AOL but each to his own.. if it works for you then keep it.. thats the general rule :)

Like I say.. nowt wrong with IE .. its mostly people who hate Microsoft who are against it..... I dont use outlook or any MS email client or anythign so they cant integrate and hackers cant get at my email lists or owt :)
 
why would you want to? Most of the internet uses IE any slight differences in output would be minor and not much point... Unless you ahve a real need for other browsers (as I ahve) then stick with what works is my advice..
 
Just looking at the post which says it's a legal requirement for the site to be accessible to all.

Without the other browsers to check it through - how do you know?

I've got this silly little thing about the Arndale Clock but it's only created on AOL so I don't even know what, if anything, can be viewed by other browsers.
 
First off there are over a hundred different browsers... Theres browsers on set-top tvs, browsers on mobile phones and palm pilots.. browsers on atari and amiga and mac and other computers.... each have lots of different browsers to choose from

You dont check them.. you dont need to.. You make your website correctly and it will work on all. You use validation software or websites to find if its fully accesible.. ie http://validator.w3.org

It is NOTa legal requirement to ahve your website work in all browsers.
 
Legally the site owner has to make the site accessible for all.
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Thats what was said.. Accesible to all is not the same as work on all browsers.. The accesible thing is in the Disability descrmination act which has been out for many years but the accesible part comes into force this year.

It basically means a person who is say blind.. should have the same acess to any service you are offering as a non blind person would have.. This means a blind persons browser that speaks the contents to him must be able to read your page..

People who use things like FLASH for there websites will be in big trouble at this point as accesibility is about 1 on a scale of 1-10 :)

But.. Its not really going to effect anyone unless your offering a service and a disabled person makes a complaint and that complaint is upheld.. which beleive me it wouldnt be in your case and most other websites....

BT, British Rail and companies like that however are going to find themselves with lots of complaints..
 
Ok I am going to ask because I genuinly want to know an answer.

That validating site doesn't validate the animated gif emoticons here. So what happens if a blind person wants to post on here? Do you mean they can do it but can't use emoticons? Does that mean they can complain?

Also if it has to be accessible by everyone how about private pages such as photo album and journal which can now be private or public?

I just realised Willow that is a link to your Arndale Clock.
 
Thats why they have an ALT tag for people who cant see or dont want to see pictures. Therefore the ALT tag replaces the picture and nothing to complain about.

Just because it didn't validate doesn't mean it wouldn't work.. only that the chances are it wont work on all browsers..
 
KIPAX said:
Like I say.. nowt wrong with IE .. its mostly people who hate Microsoft who are against it..... I dont use outlook or any MS email client or anythign so they cant integrate and hackers cant get at my email lists or owt :)
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Nothing wrong with it? Sorry to burst your bubble but I think you should see how IE conforms to W3C DOM conformance tests.

IE5.5
W3C DOM Conformance Test
Level 1 Core/HTML Interfaces FAIL
Level 1 Core/XML Interfaces FAIL
Level 2 Core Interfaces FAIL
Level 2 HTML Interfaces FAIL
Level 2 XML Interfaces FAIL
Abstract View Interface FAIL
Generic Style Sheet Traversal FAIL
CSS Styles [Views] FAIL
CSS2 Properties Interface [CSS] FAIL
Event Handling Infrastructure FAIL
User Interface Events [Events, Views] FAIL
Mouse Events [UIEvents] FAIL
HTML Events [Events] FAIL
Document Mutation Events [Events] FAIL
Document Range Interfaces FAIL
Document Traversal Interfaces FAIL

Your browser passed 0 of 16 tests.


I believe IE6 managed to pass 1 test.


Whereas


Konqueror

Level 1 Core/HTML Interfaces PASS
> Level 1 Core/XML Interfaces PASS
> Level 2 Core Interfaces PASS
> Level 2 HTML Interfaces PASS
> Level 2 XML Interfaces PASS
> Abstract View Interface FAIL
> Generic Style Sheet Traversal FAIL
> CSS Styles [Views] FAIL
> CSS2 Properties Interface [CSS] FAIL
> Event Handling Infrastructure PASS
> User Interface Events [Events, Views] PASS
> Mouse Events [UIEvents] PASS
> HTML Events [Events] PASS
> Document Mutation Events [Events] PASS
> Document Range Interfaces FAIL
> Document Traversal Interfaces FAIL
>
> Your browser passed 10 of 16 tests.

-------------------------------------
> Mozilla:
> -------------------------------------
> Level 1 Core/HTML Interfaces PASS
> Level 1 Core/XML Interfaces PASS
> Level 2 Core Interfaces PASS
> Level 2 HTML Interfaces PASS
> Level 2 XML Interfaces PASS
> Abstract View Interface PASS
> Generic Style Sheet Traversal PASS
> CSS Styles [Views] PASS
> CSS2 Properties Interface [CSS] PASS
> Event Handling Infrastructure PASS
> User Interface Events [Events, Views] FAIL
> Mouse Events [UIEvents] PASS
> HTML Events [Events] PASS
> Document Mutation Events [Events] FAIL
> Document Range Interfaces PASS
> Document Traversal Interfaces FAIL
>
> Your browser passed 13 of 16 tests.
> ----------------------------------------
>
>

Seems to suggest that IE does have the odd thing or 15 wrong with it :)

Ian
 
You can have all the tests you want... IE works OK and always has. However there are a lot of MS haters around who would like to prove otherwise... Sorry but the proof is in the pudding. IE works

Hands up everyone who is ditching IE and getting another browser based on the above test....... Hmmmmm no one ?
 
I changed to Mozilla a while ago and will not be going back to IE not due to any test's but just due to IE allowing my computer to be filled with things I DONT want, and Mozilla does not and seem's better thought out :)
I am a computer novice so that is why i have done the above, I am sure you can (if you know what you are doing) set up IE to work how you want it to, I could not but Mozilla does it automatically.;)
 
KIPAX said:
Hands up everyone who is ditching IE and getting another browser based on the above test....... Hmmmmm no one ?
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Sorry mate but I know of dozens of people at work who have 'Seen the light' probably not due to the above tests directly but due to the fact that Mozilla/Firefox do what they want. Built in google, Pop up Stopper and totally configurable if you want to play.

Standards are there for a reason. How many people would like it if VW suddenly deceided that the accelerator should be on the left and the clutch on the right. Me thinks their market share would drop rather rapidly. If you build web sites/apps for a living then it is a real pain making sure your site looks right in IE despite it having passed W3c Validators. More importantly it costs TIME & MONEY.

IIRC the latest stats showed Mozilla gained over 10% market share back in the last 6 months.

I have nothing directly against Microsoft. If their product worked, was decent value for money and didn't compromise my system then I will happily use it. Unfortunately most of their software is lucky to fit one of the above.

My 2p anyway.

Ian
 
I have nothing directly against Microsoft. If their product worked, was decent value for money
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It works and its free. How much more value for money do you want?..... you sure your not one of these Bill gates haters only you sure come accross as one. :)

As for mozila getting an extra 10% of the market.. well according to most stats they dont even have 10% let alone an extra 10%

Your not even talking a good argument... the only facts you show are pretty useless and even you admit no one would change browsers after reading them.

Millions upon millions of people us IE and it works great... most internet users are using it.... If you spend the rest of your life trying to convince them it doesnt work (when they can see it does) then your still not going to convince enough people to make the slightest difference because for every one person you convince... thousand more start using it..

When it doesn't work then i will stop using it.. not when someone tries to convince me with figures that it doesnt work..
 
Ok guys I think we are getting confused a bit. The reason IE ends up having it's home page changed etc. is simple and also the same reason that MS OS's are seen to be insecure. Hackers go for MS. That's it if the same hackers went at Mac, LINUX, or different browsers then they would probablt get an equal amount of problems. This put's MS in a tough position a victim of their own success. Apprently Mozilla based browsers now take up 15% of webusers as this increases so will the 'problems', currently it's just not worth the hassle when you can go for MS and get 70% of browsers. I have tried these other browsers but find sites that don't render (yes lazt developers) but I never have a problem with IE ,so I end up going back.
 
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