Tragic Human Failure

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DAV007

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Tackler
BBC News - Italy sinking: Bad weather hampers search for migrants

The poor 300 people
They dreamed about a better life
They where likely to have been ripped off on the journey to Europe by various scam artists
and the final journey to Europe ultimately cost them their lives.

There are thousands of others who die each year who don't make the news.

I am not saying we should have an open door to everyone approach (as that would cause chaos), but what is your solution to why thousands if not millions over the years have been willing to take the most grave risks to get to what they perceive as a 'land of opportunity'?

I do think Interpol or some other world police organisation needs to do more to take out the people traffickers.
These scum bags exploit people who are desperate.
 
Back in the mists of time, most of these countries were governed & ruled by a European Country be it as a protectorate or a part of an empire. It wasn't ideal or the first choice of the "Subjects" but things functioned & to a degree there was a working balance,

As attitudes changed & the "Subjects" got restless, they wanted self governance & control of their destinies, this they got & along with it the rule of their "own kind". This wasn't the liberation they'd envisaged & tribalism, clanishness has decided their futures since their independence. The bulk of their problems are being brought about now not by the wicked Colonialists, but their own ruling powers.

It may seem harsh, but we in the west are no longer responsible for these peoples, billions have been given over in aid, donations & charity but it's not filtering down to the ordinary people due to the rife corruption & criminality of their leading elite. To sort the problem the upper echelons need culling & if necessary, a return to a more benevolent style of "the bad old days" to square these lands away.

Stil, it ain't going to happen any time soon, so the people & their Countries will continue to degenerate & suffer.
 
Heard a little bit about this on the radio today, bad reception so didn`t hear it all. Basically, this happens all the time. Villages select the most likely to make the trip and prosper hoping they will send money back, everyone gives money to pay for the trip, not realising the hardship involved. Thousands of miles including crossing the Sahara with little water(which is littered with the bodies of those who don`t make it) then crossing the Med. Dead bodies are washed ashore all the time on the coasts of italy.
A generalisation of the report I heard today, and OK, we have our own problems here and can`t save the world, but still a sad story for those involved.
 
Not generalisation, but can`t think of right word LOL think it`s an age thing.
 
DaveinGermany said:
Back in the mists of time, most of these countries were governed & ruled by a European Country be it as a protectorate or a part of an empire. It wasn't ideal or the first choice of the "Subjects" but things functioned & to a degree there was a working balance,

As attitudes changed & the "Subjects" got restless, they wanted self governance & control of their destinies, this they got & along with it the rule of their "own kind". This wasn't the liberation they'd envisaged & tribalism, clanishness has decided their futures since their independence. The bulk of their problems are being brought about now not by the wicked Colonialists, but their own ruling powers.

It may seem harsh, but we in the west are no longer responsible for these peoples, billions have been given over in aid, donations & charity but it's not filtering down to the ordinary people due to the rife corruption & criminality of their leading elite. To sort the problem the upper echelons need culling & if necessary, a return to a more benevolent style of "the bad old days" to square these lands away.

Stil, it ain't going to happen any time soon, so the people & their Countries will continue to degenerate & suffer.
Click to expand...

C'mon ... "Back in the mists of time" they weren't even "countries". These countries, esp. south of that big sandy thing, don't make any sense, and never did. They were created by Europeans, and they make little or no sense, politically, culturally, ethnically, maybe even geographically ... a lot like Yorkshire. Obviously self-rule ain't gonna solve these problems. In fact, this probably exacerbates them. I'm not suggesting we should atone for the sins of our fathers and take up the white man's burden again; but at least we shouldn't be too hard on countries doomed to chaos from the word "go". European colonialsm is at the root of the problems in both Africa and the Middle East. We are reaping the whirlwind. And innocents are dying. It's sad. I've no idea what to do about it ... but, thankfully, that ain't in my job description.
 
When I hear about tragedies like this I am reminded of Emma Lazarus's words inscribed on the Statue of Liberty.

" Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
 
Another worrying aspect is the number of Syrian refugees who are clogging up Calias trying to get over here because we provide housing and benefits as soon as they arrive, they are refusing to ask for asylum in France because they'll be better of here they even have signs stuck there stay exactly that:mad:
 
these lot were heading to italy then on in through europe and i have no doubt the channel tunnel would have played a part in their journey after the french tossed them down it.

on the news it said they were using known smuggling routes so why arnt these routes been patrolled ?There may not have been so many lives lost infact possibly no loss of life if aprehended and shipped back to where they came from
 
Having seen the poverty first hand in various Sub Saharan Countries, heck I even flew the Gambian First Lady to Paris for a shoping trip, I agree with Dave.
 
DaveinGermany said:
And speaking of Gambia, BG's comment & this article highlights the point I was making.

Goodbye to all that: The Gambia?s ultra-paranoid dictator, Yahya Jammeh, rejects the Commonwealth - Africa - World - The Independent
Click to expand...

Its everywhere over down there Dave, Togo, Benin, Cotanou, Lome, Cote d'ivoire to name but five, its a real mess.
I used to work with a few ex colonial French Captains and one Rhodesian (he hated Mugabe), I cannot repeat their views, I would be locked up, but one thing rang true, these nations are very tribal.
Aid alone is not the answer, these nations need stability not dictators.
 
Boeing Guy said:
Its everywhere over down there Dave, Togo, Benin, Cotanou, Lome, Cote d'ivoire to name but five, its a real mess.
I used to work with a few ex colonial French Captains and one Rhodesian (he hated Mugabe), I cannot repeat their views, I would be locked up, but one thing rang true, these nations are very tribal.
Aid alone is not the answer, these nations need stability not dictators.
Click to expand...

But the question posed by this thread is not one of dyfunctional, failed, and outright criminal African governments. Some reading about the political structures of pre-colonial Africa and on the process and functions of colonial governments provide clues as to why the continent is the way it is. The problem is a humanitarian one. The majority of those who chance taking a boat ride across the Med have spent lives living up to their necks in liquid shiite. The alternatives: they could stay where they are mumbling "don't make waves" or they can take their chances on a dangerous voyage.

I read in one source ... I think it was CBC ... that there were between 450 and 500 souls on that small boat, paying god-knows-what for the privilege. Is that desperation or what? Someone has gotta help these folks. It's kind of a "beds are burning" sort of thing. Slamming the door is not an option. Europe shouldn't behave like my country did in the 40s:

CBC Digital Archives - Life after Auschwitz - Auschwitz: Jews not welcome in wartime Canada

Thanksgiving is comeing up next week. We have so much to be thankful for. I'm sure that this Country can give more without hurting our economy. We give a lot in foreign aid ... and, ok, I know that lots of it is siphoned off into the pockets of some rich bitch Gambian who wants to go shopping in Paris ... but we can do better. Don't some jerks ... usually tories ... say: "You can't solve a problem by throwing money at it." BS. We probably don't have enough money, or compassion, or hospitality to prevent more disasters; but we can have an impact.
 
Eric, I agree with you, but as Bob Geldof found out aid only goes so far.
I am not suggesting a coup, far from it.
For people to live like this is just not right.

I sponsor a child in Sierra Leone, it's a small start, but its better than nothing
 
Sad thing to happen
Even here in the USA we hear horror tales of the one who "escort" them across the borders. When I lived in AZ hubby wouldn't let me walk the trails alone since even thou we were on base they would come thro it. In the afternoon the kids on the school bus would see the ones they had caught lined up by the MP station
 
2 questions to ponder :

1. What would Africa be like if Europeans had never colonised it?

2. South America was extensively colonised - why has it turned out differently from Africa?
 
Boeing Guy said:
Eric, I agree with you, but as Bob Geldof found out aid only goes so far.
I am not suggesting a coup, far from it.
For people to live like this is just not right.

I sponsor a child in Sierra Leone, it's a small start, but its better than nothing
Click to expand...

Sponsoring a child is great :alright:... and it's something an individual can do without involving government. I paid for a couple of goats last xmas, and will probably do the same again. One goat can make a helluva lot of difference in a family's life. I don't have much faith in African governments, and little hope that it's going to get better soon, but caritas is still an option. Millions of individuals doing even a little something out of kindness amounts to a whole lot of good. Because we can't solve all the problems, or even a few of them, doesn't mean we can't, as individuals, make a difference. I don't see it as "bleeding heart liberalism". I think of it as a small amount of tax I pay on my good fortune to be a Canadian, living in one of the happiest, most prosperous countries in the world.
 
davebtelford said:
2 questions to ponder :

1. What would Africa be like if Europeans had never colonised it?

2. South America was extensively colonised - why has it turned out differently from Africa?
Click to expand...

Not sure about the South but in North America they just killed all the natives.
Do you think that would work in Africa?
 
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