Whitebirk Retail Park

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by g jones

If there's something missing flag it up.

Hmm..

1) a nice open, well lit central car park
2) a central bus station
3) a spacious outside market with protection from the wind and rain
4) a quaint market hall stuffed with shops

Oh wait.......

[Neil]

Accrington has plenty of free car parking.

[Margaret Pilkington]

What is missing is vision.
There is going to be a new bus station......in what many people consider is going to be in the wrong place.
It would be so easy to move the existing traders into the market hall......there is plenty of space in there......and when the new bus station comes along there will be even more because people, especially the older folk of the borough (these are the ones which have the most loyalty to the market and the market hall) will find it a trial to walk over from the bus station.....so it is a fair bet that they won't bother.

Why couldn't a market be accommodated on Broadway? It would give the centre a sense of hustle and bustle.....it might even enhance the footfall in the dire Arndale centre.
Better yet demolish the Arndale and build the bus station on that land......oh, you are going to tell me that this last suggestion is impossible because it is in private hands - buy it back.

Accrington no longer has a heart, we all know what happens when the heart dies!

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by g jones

I don't know how I could have changed things in opposition? I accept responsibility but there has to be a degree of realism.

Whilst Accrington's fall from where it was is sad, Accrington is not alone and it some ways was inevitable. My view is to remain positive and every effort is being made. If there's something missing flag it up.

Great Harwood Farmers Market has been a resounding success - where the cabins are used primarily. The number of pitches has risen from three to the maximum that space will allow, 32 without road closures. Traders report their best profits.

Graham, it's good that you are responding although your Councillors are noticeable by their absence.
But you're doing it again! ' I don't know how I could have changed things in opposition'.

Since 1980 you've been in power twice as long as the Tories with one good run of 13 years.
I ask again, how long does your party need?

I don't live there so my suggestions are of little value but Guinness came up with 4 good ones straight away.

How on earth did a satellite village get to establish a resoundingly successful Farmers Market when the main town has nothing like it. I'll bet if you count every stall of every kind in that beautiful Market Hall there aren't 32 occupied! Imagine how well a Farmers Market in an attractive, covered, warm Market Hall could have done! Every credit to Great Harwood and its Councillors but someone in Accrington missed an opportunity there.
Imagine if you offered stall holders a peppercorn rent for say 2 years if they set up on condition if they succeeded they paid a fair rent after that. Empty stalls and empty spaces earn nothing and put people off visiting the few occupied stalls. Hyndburn owns it- they could do it. And an MP and a group of Councillors could put a little pressure on( cross that out, put suggest) the owners of the Arndale Center to think about the same- charity shops and empty shops earn nothing.
Who wants a nice new bus station placed so that when you get off you need another bus to get into the town center? Or a taxi or paramedic! Or a good walk.Older folks don't want that and they'll be the bigger users.

Bury Market has 370 stalls and people travel, even by coach, for miles to visit it. 250,000 visitors a week and it's only open 3 days! And it's only 8 miles from Manchester with an excellent Metro link. It's population is about 20,000 less than Hyndburn but it pulls people in from all over to succeed(being fair, Bury Metropolitan is twice as big).

Those ugly blue monstrosities behind the Town Hall- don't tell me, the Tories were responsible?
The destruction of the Broadway gardens and open spaces? I won't ask.

Yes, the mill towns of the North West have had a hard time but they haven't all gone under.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Gordon you have echoed my thoughts exactly.....and your observations about the success of the market in Bury have been mentioned before too......but, for some reason they can do it...but we can't.
I have suggested that those who are responsible for the development in this town, go out on a fact finding mission and look closely at the model of business that makes Bury a vibrant market town, while ours is a poor excuse for a market town.

[Gordon Booth]

Sorry, Margaret, I took ages typing that (with 2 fingers) then accidentally wiped it all out and had to start again so I didn't see your post and overlapped it a bit!

[Guinness]

It's the second time that Graham has used this market as an argument against Whitebirk and for town centre markets.

Great Harwood farmers market runs once a month on a sunday, it's not a labour council brainchild although they are quick to jump on the bandwagon, (as seen in this thread by Grahams use of the word 'we' in his first post on the subject), of the success of a local businessman who wanted to put something back into the area and get a little advert for his company in the process. Theres a car park across the road and one behind it. The bus route to get there has to be seen to be believed. Its a success because once a month is just about right for buying from most of the stalls that are on there. Also charity benefits from the rent for the stalls.

Another reason for its success is because the only competition on a Sunday are the retail parks which kinda blows the whole local trade would be hurt by a retail park out the water, since there are retail parks dotted all around Blackburn and I think the Blackburn Mall is open on Sunday too (could be wrong about that one). There are 3 large supermarkets within two minutes drive which also do not appear to affect the market whatsoever.

The normal council run Harwood market consists of three stalls and two vans on a Friday (thats the 'we' market). The supermarkets have decimated that one.

Thats how you equate a monthly specialist market with a traditional town centre market, one works, the other doesn't, and retail parks have no effect on either.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

Sorry, Margaret, I took ages typing that (with 2 fingers) then accidentally wiped it all out and had to start again so I didn't see your post and overlapped it a bit!

No worries...just glad to see someone else is thinking along the same lines.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Guinness

Great Harwood farmers market runs once a month on a sunday, it's not a labour council brainchild although they are quick to jump on the bandwagon, (as seen in this thread by Grahams use of the word 'we' in his first post on the subject), of the success of a local businessman who wanted to put something back into the area and get a little advert for his company in the process.

Ah, private enterprise, eh? I'll bet he's a Tory!
I take back what I said about the Great Harwood councilors, Guinness. They're obviously as bad as the rest!

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by Guinness

Thats how you equate a monthly specialist market with a traditional town centre market, one works, the other doesn't, and retail parks have no effect on either.

Accrington has a specialist market, it sells fleas 5 days a week.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Neil

Accrington has plenty of free car parking.

Never said it hadn't?

However..

Arndale..one bad driver can cause a logjam, use at your peril
Back of the old tyre place...difficult to navigate, one badly parked car causes problems for everyone, dead end at the other side, use at your peril
King Street..have to circumnavigate the planet to get to it unless approached from Oswaldtwistle, fill up before using, no through flow
Black Abbey St/Oak St..no traffic flow and too 'bitty', go into one bay, find it full, 3 point turn or reverse onto main road, rinse and repeat at the next entrance
Morrisons...NCP..nuff said
Eastgate..similar to King St unless approaching from Huncoat

With the exception of the Arndale and Morrisons you cannot drive in circles until you find a space. Street parking times of 30mins-2hrs does not encourage browsing, a coffee, pie and chips in a cafe...

'Free' does not mean desirable or quality

[Margaret Pilkington]

Guinness, desirable and quality are never free...maybe that is why people go out of town to buy what they need....and a new bus station will soon be available to take them away from town...it sure as hell won't bring people in.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Guinness, desirable and quality are never free...maybe that is why people go out of town to buy what they need....and a new bus station will soon be available to take them away from town...it sure as hell won't bring people in.

See this is what is intrinsically wrong with HBC and thinking. Blackburn does not want Whitebirk because it will impact on them...this is true, the Mall and those widely strewn retail parks around the Bolton Road area will become wastelands as the shops there will move to Whitebirk...Hyndburn on the other hand has absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain if they negotiate.

Blackburn has already realised that anyone with half a brain will get off their local bus at the new Accrington bus station, grab a coffee from the machine and wait for the Blackburn bus to take them to the shops..they don't want the distraction of Whitebirk to draw people away.

The big shops also know this, only our councillors are blind to this with their forlorn hope of recreating a town centre that goes against the tide of modern shopping habits.

Negotiate with Peel, get the free buses, get a market area for traders..it's a win/win for Accrington

[Margaret Pilkington]

Guinness, we can all talk until we are blue in the face.....they will not listen, neither will they take notice of the clear evidence that Accrington is never going to be the town it once was.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Guinness, we can all talk until we are blue in the face.....they will not listen, neither will they take notice of the clear evidence that Accrington is never going to be the town it once was.

Agreed....Although you'd think they would at least look at the Lancashire Telegraphs report on boxing day sales that went to great lengths to talk about queues in Blackburn and Burnley but made absloutely no mention of the tumbleweeds blowing through Accrington.