Browser Woes?

[entwisi]

So whose site were you quoting? One thing I also forgot until I had hit submit was that your stats show what the browsers report. There are numerous sites that do not work correctly unless your browser identifies as IE5.5 or higher. That is why most decent browser allows you to change what is presented. I use a couple of MSN forums and have my browser identify me as IE6 on XP(rather than the Konqueror on Gentoo Linux) as this makes the site more useable. Unfortunately it screws that stats as well.

You seem to believe that IE is a good browser, I am really sorry for you. Yes it works in that it displays sites, slow and clunky but yes it does work. Not to standards and this then encourages lazy developers which then causes other problems. If we carry on accepting this shoddy workmanship then MIcrosoft will continue to produce it. Look at SP2 as an example. It took over 6 months fot some vunerabilities to be patched. And then in patching these it breaks other quite fundamental things. In the open source community vunerabilities are patched usually the same day. MY system needs next to zero maintainance with a simple cron job that updates overnight.

Our job as responsible techies it to promote standards and choice. The more people that try Firefox et al the better. Even if this means that Microsoft pull their finger out and produce decent software. I spend far too much time fixing other peoples PCs because they have fallen victim to scams/viruses/spyware/malware. Slowly but surely they try the alternatives and my worries cease.

I wish you well with your browser, may you live happily ever after( though I doubt that will be the case )

Ian

[KIPAX]

Originally Posted by entwisi

So whose site were you quoting? One thing I also forgot until I had hit submit was that your stats show what the browsers report. There are numerous sites that do not work correctly unless your browser identifies as IE5.5 or higher. That is why most decent browser allows you to change what is presented. I use a couple of MSN forums and have my browser identify me as IE6 on XP(rather than the Konqueror on Gentoo Linux) as this makes the site more useable. Unfortunately it screws that stats as well.

Lets face it.. NO stats are 100% accurate and cant really be relied on .. and I mean NONE! .,.. but they do give you a general autline and even you cant argue hat IE has the vast majority of users... Even if I cam down a few million users and sais 80% its still THE browser used isn't it

Originally Posted by entwisi

You seem to believe that IE is a good browser, I am really sorry for you.

You feel sorry for me..? Please try not to get personal.. if you need to resort to those levels then we can stop the debate here

Originally Posted by entwisi

You seem to believe that IE is a good browser,

I ahve never said that... I think its the right browser for everyday use and it works is what i have been saying.. I also said I use Opera when needed and have other browsers installed... lets not twist words or make things up pleae

Originally Posted by entwisi

Yes it works in that it displays sites, slow and clunky but yes it does work.

The diference in speed is minimal on broadband... hardly even noticable.. Was I still on a 9600 modem I may agree..

Originally Posted by entwisi

Not to standards and this then encourages lazy developers

Now you hit my button
Lazy developers are just that.. the industry is riddled with them and isnt this where I came in? By saying if people go to lengths to make a website that only wors on one browser??? Its not the browsers fault.. its the lazy programmer and you cant blame IE for that... Thats why I ahve NS installed.. its always been better for developing because it renders the page after it gets the code and not while its getting it...

for example a table with no ending will be shown on ie while its loading... sloppy... but on NS it will not be shown because its still looking for end table..

the above is best for a developer... BUT for an end user like most people on here... IE is better because it shows the info they want to see rather than leave them with a blank page..its sloppy and bad practice but it means the user gets to see the web page

Originally Posted by entwisi

Our job as responsible techies it to promote standards and choice.

TBH ten years ago I would ahve agreed with you... I also used to fight spammers and trolls....

Originally Posted by entwisi

The more people that try Firefox et al the better. Even if this means that Microsoft pull their finger out and produce decent software. I spend far too much time fixing other peoples PCs because they have fallen victim to scams/viruses/spyware/malware. Slowly but surely they try the alternatives and my worries cease.

If you charge to fix PCs then arnt you cutting your own throat?

Originally Posted by entwisi

I wish you well with your browser, may you live happily ever after( though I doubt that will be the case )

Well I ahve been using it for more years than i care to recall... i cant see why its going to give me problems any time soon.. certainly reading all these statistis and guess what.. even after reading them IE is still working fine

[entwisi]

Yes, IE is the browser being used at the moment. It wasn't always like that though and with a bit of help it may soon be back on a more even keel. Personally I would love to see a 3 way split between IE, Mozilla and Opera with others taking a nice 10% or so share.

Who said I charge to fix PC's? I don't , I do it for friends because they are exactly that. They help me when I need something.

If you would like to see a fast rendering browser have a look at Dillo. OK, not very featureful as yet but geesh it flies! Oh and never fight trolls, they go away on their own. Or am I eating my own medicine here

Lazy developers get away with being that because of IE. If you ran a site and people couldn't see it because you coded it incorrectly then you wouldn't get any customers. If IE met these standards then the world would be a brave new place. More often than not it is down to the people who design the sites(not necessarily those who code it) that just don't understand what the requirements are.

Ian

[KIPAX]

Originally Posted by entwisi

Yes, IE is the browser being used at the moment. It wasn't always like that though and with a bit of help it may soon be back on a more even keel.

My atari website used to get IE as least used browser

Originally Posted by entwisi

Who said I charge to fix PC's? I don't , I do it for friends because they are exactly that. They help me when I need something.

no one as far as I can see.... I said if .. *IF* I cant see anyone saying you do.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Coming back to the website designers and something Ifty said a while back. Could it not simply be that some people are learning and not that they are lazy? To learn they have to start somewhere and as the most likely have IE then they will see what they have created via IE ( as will the majority of people viewing it). Perhaps (like my little AOL hometown offering) they are not out to reach vast armies of customers but merely learning how to do something by hands on experience. I know that the only way I learn anything is by attempting to do it. I could read any number of instructions but they go straight through my brain, however if I do something then I stand a better chance of remembering how it's done. (as with emoticon creation which is something I enjoy doing) As they learn more then they will become more skilled and more aware of others browsers and how things are seen via them.

When I did a teacher training course I remember it being illustrated that people immediately absorb about 10% of what you tell them if you simply speak to them, about 20% of it if they are involved in discussion, but 80% if there is practical hands on experience. Oh drat, there go statististics again!

[KIPAX]

We are talking about profesionals.. or so called profesionals who pretend to know what there doing and produce a website that only works on some browsers.. thats lazy when with a bit more effort they could produce a website that works on all browsers..

Thats why we are reffering to them as developers... we aint really on about personal sites made with a wysiwyg toy

Also the point quite rightly being made by the other side is that if IE was to conform to the rules then you would find it harder to make a bad website because IE lets you produce a bad one while browsers like netscape doesnt.. hence why i use netscape for development

[WillowTheWhisp]

I realise AOLhometown is a WYSIWYG "toy" as you put it - used simply because it's:
a) there
b) quick
c) easy

but that doesn't mean that someone like me wouldn't prefer to create something more customised and specific. The main reason why I never get round to it is lack of time, and the more I post on Accyweb the less time I have.

It's a case of stepping stones. Each one leading to a more ambitious one.

[KIPAX]

eeerm I know....

[Gobsmacked]

In the case of certain browsers suffering more from viruses it boils down to the barn door syndrome. The bigger it is, the easier it is to hit.