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-   -   Expenses, expenses... (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/expenses-expenses-45851.html)

cmonstanley 02-03-2009 22:04
Re: Expenses, expenses...
 
good old fashioned rumble in the jungle:D dont worry theres nothing wrong with a good few debates in fact its good for the soul,it also shows how civilized everybody on accyweb is,by not resorting to threats violence etc..:enough:as i retort a good debate is good for you:)

cashman 03-03-2009 00:25
Re: Expenses, expenses...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy39 (Post 687894)
I have come to the concusion that this thread is nothing more than a personal crusadel and tub thumping exercise
The FOI is there for all to use should they wish to do so and if it so important for self learning get on with it.
I have been called a troll by you on several occasions and have brushed it off, the meaning of the word troll seems to be a word you use to be clever.
I have looked at your hidden in threads sinario:
Expenses thread 388 Posts.......Garinda 80 Posts next best 41.
FOI thread..........Garinda 262 Posts next best 147.
It seems that you have taken over the roll as self appointed chairman and tub thumper. :rolleyes:
yer only saying that cos he has ya on ignore.:D

onlyme 03-03-2009 04:28
Re: Expenses, expenses...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 687875)
Can we bring the thread back on subject now please, and deal in facts?

It's a fact the Conservatives on Hyndburn Council chose to ignore the recommended allowance limits set by an independent body, and award themselves a massive increase.

No evidence appears to have been dug up on the other councillors by use of the Freedom of Information Act on everyone else's expenses, so on that fact it's indefensible.

Now it seems the bare facts are being hidden in threads realating to this scandalous greed, by trolling.

It's also fact that the newspapers are currently full of stories of people having to take pay cuts or go on short time, and they are the lucky ones who haven't already lost their jobs.:(
I think I really must be missing something here. Surely the FOI means that people have a right to request for whatever reason.

Hell I could request a copy and use it as alternative method of bottom wiping

If I'd requested the information, would I be getting as much stick????

onlyme 03-03-2009 04:34
Re: Expenses, expenses...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyme (Post 686945)
Ohhhhhh should we all stand up and applaud? My god, if its you breaking out the biscuits as well, the good members of the public should be scattering rose petals at your feet whilst you walk....

Or maybe you're just doing what countless other people do within their job role without feeling the need to broadcast it ona public forum.

When you have workers in the private sector not only working from home at their own expense (without claiming it back under expenses), hell, even our troops had to provide their own mosquito nets and decent boots for tours, your £20 odd means diddly squat to me. Especially seeing as I'm paying for it.

For someone like myself that doesnt particularly do politics, isnt a die hard supporter of either party, but open to suggestions when voting time comes along, the attitude and manners of the local labour councillors do nothing to sway me in their favour.

My child of 4 has better manners and social skills. Maybe if you remembered that potential voters are reading your posts, it would encourage you to act with a tad more dignity than i've seen previously

LMAO!! For the person who gave me negative karma for this post, thank you.

Its great to see that my opinions can evoke such a reaction, even if its a negative one.

Shame you didnt have the dangly bits to sign it. I obviously have more courage in my convictions cos if i believe in something i'll put my name to it lol ;)

blazey 03-03-2009 05:28
Re: Expenses, expenses...
 
Am I going crazy, or did G Jones just admit he used council money to make personal calls about his grandmother?

Thank god she isn't abroad, can you imagine how much THAT would cost?

Of course money means less than your emotions Graham, you aren't footing the bill are you?

I have a £35 a month contract which gives me 600 minutes a month, 10 hrs of calls and I most certainly do use them because obviously I am on the phone quite a lot both personally and for 'business', so I can appreciate how much you can actually spend on the phone when you are busy, but these phone bills are both just ridiculously excessive?

I think regional expenditures could quite easily come up in a politics degree, particularly as nearly every business is having to face serious cut backs at the moment and nobody can afford to be wasting money on luxuries, and certainly should not be doing so if it is tax payers money.

I feel Andrew is attacked a lot for being a curious politics student and it isn't particularly fair. He's quite mild compared to some of the politics students I know in Lancaster, particularly those within the Labour Club who are ALWAYS dishing out statistics against the tories.

Yes he might be seeking out statistics to make Graham look bad, and that isn't right, but at the same time it is quite interesting to see how much money these regional politicians are actually wasting, in some cases on self-confessed personal matters!

Graham, no offence or anything, but you may be able to get the sympathy on here for the expenditures, but at the end of the day, its those who know enough about politics that know that it isn't an excuse for using taxpayers money to make personal calls.

On the money you rake up unnecessarily on that phone bill you could fund another student through a degree in medicine, nursing, teaching etc. That would be a much greater benefit than raking up bills through personal calls.

I can't help but be slightly disillusioned by the labour party to some extent because a lot of the politicians on the left come up with some particularly poor excuses for wasting money, and yes the tories might do it, but they aren't the ones claiming to be in politics to help society as a whole, you are.

garinda 03-03-2009 07:15
Re: Expenses, expenses...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyme (Post 688007)
I think I really must be missing something here. Surely the FOI means that people have a right to request for whatever reason.

Hell I could request a copy and use it as alternative method of bottom wiping

If I'd requested the information, would I be getting as much stick????
No one is 'getting stick' for using the F.O.I. to find out the expenses of all H.B.C. councillors.

We'd never even know any information had been requested unless informed by the Labour councillors of Accy Web, especially as it appears it hasn't uncovered anything that can be used as as some sort of 'but they did it too' defence.

I very much doubt anyone would have requested the information relating to concillors expenses, if the voted for massively increased allowances hadn't made the headlines and caused such a big public outcry.

No allowances up by 45%.

No headlines.

No public outcry.

No requests using F.O.I.

No do-do-gate.

g jones 03-03-2009 07:21
Re: Expenses, expenses...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazey (Post 688012)
Am I going crazy, or did G Jones just admit he used council money to make personal calls about his grandmother?

Thank god she isn't abroad, can you imagine how much THAT would cost?

Of course money means less than your emotions Graham, you aren't footing the bill are you?

I have a £35 a month contract which gives me 600 minutes a month, 10 hrs of calls and I most certainly do use them because obviously I am on the phone quite a lot both personally and for 'business', so I can appreciate how much you can actually spend on the phone when you are busy, but these phone bills are both just ridiculously excessive?

I think regional expenditures could quite easily come up in a politics degree, particularly as nearly every business is having to face serious cut backs at the moment and nobody can afford to be wasting money on luxuries, and certainly should not be doing so if it is tax payers money.

I feel Andrew is attacked a lot for being a curious politics student and it isn't particularly fair. He's quite mild compared to some of the politics students I know in Lancaster, particularly those within the Labour Club who are ALWAYS dishing out statistics against the tories.

Yes he might be seeking out statistics to make Graham look bad, and that isn't right, but at the same time it is quite interesting to see how much money these regional politicians are actually wasting, in some cases on self-confessed personal matters!

Graham, no offence or anything, but you may be able to get the sympathy on here for the expenditures, but at the end of the day, its those who know enough about politics that know that it isn't an excuse for using taxpayers money to make personal calls.

On the money you rake up unnecessarily on that phone bill you could fund another student through a degree in medicine, nursing, teaching etc. That would be a much greater benefit than raking up bills through personal calls.

I can't help but be slightly disillusioned by the labour party to some extent because a lot of the politicians on the left come up with some particularly poor excuses for wasting money, and yes the tories might do it, but they aren't the ones claiming to be in politics to help society as a whole, you are.
No it said (collectively), "I am the only Councillor I believe with a mobile who pays for personal calls and it has cost me a fortune". The opposite of the above.

As you can see I don't claim much in extras, food, travel etc.... That goes back to being elected in 2002 as you can see.

Freedom of Information is a good thing. There is nothing wrong with Andrew using FOI, in fact this thread is advertising a good piece of legislation. What is wrong are Andrew's motives in my opinion.

I spend my time doing positive things. The Tories are a negative and deceitful bunch here in Hyndburn and people need to know. Top Tories at County Council say that, Labour Councillors say that, everyone (residents) who turns up knows it. They only people who don't agree with that are fence sitters, fanatical Hyndburn Tories or people who think they are of a higher intellect and don't need to listen or turn up to be knowledgeable.

The Tories deserve the criticisms.

Bernard Dawson 03-03-2009 08:18
Re: Expenses, expenses...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazey (Post 688012)
Am I going crazy, or did G Jones just admit he used council money to make personal calls about his grandmother?

Thank god she isn't abroad, can you imagine how much THAT would cost?

Of course money means less than your emotions Graham, you aren't footing the bill are you?

I have a £35 a month contract which gives me 600 minutes a month, 10 hrs of calls and I most certainly do use them because obviously I am on the phone quite a lot both personally and for 'business', so I can appreciate how much you can actually spend on the phone when you are busy, but these phone bills are both just ridiculously excessive?

I think regional expenditures could quite easily come up in a politics degree, particularly as nearly every business is having to face serious cut backs at the moment and nobody can afford to be wasting money on luxuries, and certainly should not be doing so if it is tax payers money.

I feel Andrew is attacked a lot for being a curious politics student and it isn't particularly fair. He's quite mild compared to some of the politics students I know in Lancaster, particularly those within the Labour Club who are ALWAYS dishing out statistics against the tories.

Yes he might be seeking out statistics to make Graham look bad, and that isn't right, but at the same time it is quite interesting to see how much money these regional politicians are actually wasting, in some cases on self-confessed personal matters!

Graham, no offence or anything, but you may be able to get the sympathy on here for the expenditures, but at the end of the day, its those who know enough about politics that know that it isn't an excuse for using taxpayers money to make personal calls.

On the money you rake up unnecessarily on that phone bill you could fund another student through a degree in medicine, nursing, teaching etc. That would be a much greater benefit than raking up bills through personal calls.

I can't help but be slightly disillusioned by the labour party to some extent because a lot of the politicians on the left come up with some particularly poor excuses for wasting money, and yes the tories might do it, but they aren't the ones claiming to be in politics to help society as a whole, you are.
Just out of interest. What's a Regional Politician?

claytonender 03-03-2009 09:16
Re: Expenses, expenses...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Owen (Post 688044)
Just out of interest. What's a Regional Politician?
I think you might be classed as one Bernard (as well as Graham, Clare and myself + all the other 31 councillors on HBC) :D

Well it is step up, for me, from being called 'That woman' :rolleyes:

garinda 03-03-2009 09:21
Re: Expenses, expenses...
 
As for myself, there seems to be one major point that appears to be being overlooked in this discussion.

Let's suppose that H.B.C. was controlled by Labour, and it was them and not the Conservatives who'd decided to ignore the recommendations of an independent panel, and voted to award themselves a 45% increased allowance.

My criticism and condemnation would have been equally vociferous and as scathing. Especially if the the increases had been accompanied by similar supercilious quotes as we've had from Cllr. Britcliffe.

Besides being a point of principal, that it really isn't very wise to chose to disregard the recommended limits, considering so many people are having to settle for either no pay rises, or rises below the rate of inflation, or worse still go on short time, which many in Hyndburn are having to do, perhaps it isn't going to mean a great deal of extra money having to be found in the great scheme of things, especially compared with the £591,000 that the council were granted, and then wasted on the defunct community website, for example.

That's really not the point. I was brought up to believe that if you look after the pennies, then the pounds look after themselves...even tenners for a 'hot dog and a Coke'.

Although I'd still be highly critical of whichever group of councillors had thought themselves worthy of such a massive rise at this time, I very much doubt anyone would have used the Freedom of Information Act to look for some sort of defence this way, certainly not from a Conservative party supporter, in the vain hope of convincing us that two wrongs make a right. Which they certainly don't in my book.

That is the major difference. Certainly as I see it.

turkishdelight 03-03-2009 11:03
Re: Expenses, expenses...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyme (Post 688007)
I think I really must be missing something here. Surely the FOI means that people have a right to request for whatever reason.

Hell I could request a copy and use it as alternative method of bottom wiping

If I'd requested the information, would I be getting as much stick????
Im sure you wouldnt get any stick on here they only do it to certain indivduals im sure your aware of who these individuals are, I guess they are trying to be clever as Royboy states which is absoulutely true no lies their. We need to have pity on them really for treating individuals in this manner, why cant we have respect for one and another at least and not bring clever remarks into the threads that are,I speak for myself now rude, personal, offensive and upsetting clearly against the forum rules.I am fairly new on here and have never in my life had slurs such as these recieved in these threads especially refering to my education bang out of order in my book. I hope i receive no more clever remarks i am willing to close the matter now. I came on here because i found it interesting reading and to get to know more about local politics. The majority of people on here appear really nice and informative and make valid opinions and are not rude or trying to be clever.

Royboy39 03-03-2009 12:17
Re: Expenses, expenses...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman (Post 687987)
yer only saying that cos he has ya on ignore.:D
Not really bothered Cashy............Been round long enough to sort the wheat from the chaf. :):D

g jones 03-03-2009 12:19
Re: Expenses, expenses...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda (Post 688065)
As for myself, there seems to be one major point that appears to be being overlooked in this discussion.

Let's suppose that H.B.C. was controlled by Labour, and it was them and not the Conservatives who'd decided to ignore the recommendations of an independent panel, and voted to award themselves a 45% increased allowance.

My criticism and condemnation would have been equally vociferous and as scathing. Especially if the the increases had been accompanied by similar supercilious quotes as we've had from Cllr. Britcliffe.

Besides being a point of principal, that it really isn't very wise to chose to disregard the recommended limits, considering so many people are having to settle for either no pay rises, or rises below the rate of inflation, or worse still go on short time, which many in Hyndburn are having to do, perhaps it isn't going to mean a great deal of extra money having to be found in the great scheme of things, especially compared with the £591,000 that the council were granted, and then wasted on the defunct community website, for example.

That's really not the point. I was brought up to believe that if you look after the pennies, then the pounds look after themselves...even tenners for a 'hot dog and a Coke'.

Although I'd still be highly critical of whichever group of councillors had thought themselves worthy of such a massive rise at this time, I very much doubt anyone would have used the Freedom of Information Act to look for some sort of defence this way, certainly not from a Conservative party supporter, in the vain hope of convincing us that two wrongs make a right. Which they certainly don't in my book.

That is the major difference. Certainly as I see it.
Well where you're wrong Garinda I will say so. However you are right. The issue if someone else was in control would they have done things different. The answer is yes. Independent or Labour.

Some people might feel allowances aren't enough and support the Conservative position. That's ok.

Two wrongs however do not make a right.

Bernard Dawson 03-03-2009 12:55
Re: Expenses, expenses...
 
I am very much in favour of the Freedom Of Information Act. But I would ask one question to anybody on Accy Web.

If somebody was seeking information on you, do you not think that you have the right to ask why they want that information?

Royboy39 03-03-2009 13:06
Re: Expenses, expenses...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Owen (Post 688137)
I am very much in favour of the Freedom Of Information Act. But I would ask one question to anybody on Accy Web.

If somebody was seeking information on you, do you not think that you have the right to ask why they want that information?
Face to face yes....Public forum no.


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