£10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

What do you make of this? £10,000 is being offered for the leaked information on MP's expenses receipts. The Sun and Times have been offered it, but refuse to handle stolen goods. Bloggers have offered £10,000 and are prepared to publish them if they get the information...

As I see it we should get to see them anyway. It's our money and we need transparency to regain trust in politicians.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

so are you gunna give them back now andrew :D

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

To be quite honest I'm getting fed up with all this crap about Exes, they just need to sort it out 2-6

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Disgraceful! They should be allowed to dip their snouts in the trough in peace! :rolleyes:

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

you are quite correct andrew, hope ya don't think it will ever happen though.:rolleyes:

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Sorry, I know I'm numb, but I don't understand the sentence.
£10,000 is being offered by whom?
What have The Sun and The Times been offered?

Agree with the sentiment.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

What he means is that someone out there (but it's not quite clear who) is offering to sell the MPs expenses info for £10,000. He's just getting giddy, because he thinks that Mad Gord's finished...I wouldn't be too sure, though...some of that Obama magic might rub off on him! ;)

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Wynonie is correct. The blogger is Guido Fawkes over at Guy Fawkes' blog of parliamentary plots, rumours and conspiracy

The Sun/Times were offered the expenses receipts (for a price) but refused them as there are legal implications of handling stolen goods. :D

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Thanks for the explanations fellas.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

hey mr gregg pope if you are reading this please forward me your expenses and i will split the £10,000 fifty/fifty with you

i am open to negotiation on teh percentage but not much

thanks for reading

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

I don't know Wynonie, Brown was a ****** on Tuesday and he's still a ****** today:D

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

I think you'll find that Greg posts his exes on his web site accyman, sorry to disappoint you over the £5Gs:D

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

You are absolutely right not to be to sure about the outcome of the next election. Things are starting to turn.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

i wonder if the rags are so pre occupied with getting a story that they would fail to check that out first and still pay up :D

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

There used to be a group called Blind Faith:rolleyes:

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

I think this is for expenses receipts rather than totals, which as far as I know Greg doesn't publish, he does however go further than he needs to. You can find them at Greg Pope - MPs Allowances

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

In the opening post, it states, regain the trust of politicians, or something similar.... Isnt this presuming we trusted any in the first place? :D

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Geoff Hoon is the latest! Rented his London flat, and used second home allowance to pay for his constituency home, whilst he lived in a government provided apartment rent-free!

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

..hang on Jaysay ain't yo bin the lead singer fo that group over tht last 10yrs?:D

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Andrew, you seem to carefully confine your examples of snout troughing to Labour politicians. As you well know, there are plenty of Tory MPs at it and even the odd Democratic Unionist or two!

I can, however, confirm that none of us in the Official Monster Raving Loony Party are claiming any parliamentary expenses, legitimate or otherwise. We Loonies are incorruptible! ;) :D

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Ahh I know its from all sides, just these are currently the high profile ones. We've had Nannygate and others in the past!

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Do you? You'd never think it from reading "Andrew Barrett's Musings". You appear to meticulously avoid mentioning any Tory ones. Perhaps now I've managed to drag an admission out of you that greed and avarice do exist on the Tory benches, you will start to publicise a few of them...or would that earn you a slap on the wrist from your party bosses? :D

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

No but was from 1979 to 1997:D

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MPs expenses
 

I think the thing that I seem to concentrate on with this government was its statement prior to the 1997 GE Wynonie "Whiter than White Government" I don't think there is anybody that can say they have come anywhere close to achieving this.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

I'm all too happy to post about Conservatives or Lib dems, or anyone in fact! Just needs to be current. I have only recently started blogging often. :D If posting about something I thinks important got me a slap on the wrist, I'd leave.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

i thought the monster raving looney partys expenses were assesed by how many £50 notes they could fit up their noses :D

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Interesting fact that I pulled from the Telegraph's article

Mr Brown claimed a total of £124,454 in expenses and allowances in 2007/08. Mr Cameron claimed £148,829. Nick Clegg, the Lib Dem leader claimed £149,026.

Wonder why it's more expensive to be in the opposition?

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Brown probably get more chauffering about for free, because he has a higher security risk

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

ahh but dosnt cameron have to claim for his push bike and the chaufer driven car that drives behind him carrying his luch ?

it certainly wont be costs for visiting teh north because a he says its a terrible place and cant imagine why anyone would want to live here

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Right, I will be keeping an eye on your "musings" the next time a Tory hits the headlines for some scandal or other!

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Brown won't have an election, so he gets to keep his grace and favour home, downing street. ;)

Wynonie, why do you always use quotes for musings, is there something I'm not getting? :P

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Because I'm quoting the title of your blog, so I use quotation marks. Nothing particularly significant in it.

Incidentally, I see in your Blair to become president of EU story, you talk about the Irish being forced to vote on the Lisbon Treaty again. Are you also thinking of telling your readers that if they vote "yes" this time (and I sincerely hope they don't), Cameron, if elected, may well break his pledge to hold a similar referendum?

As he said in a speech in Harlow, Essex: "We may have to say, well look, we’re not happy with this situation, here are some of the powers we’d like to have back. But we can’t give you that referendum on the Lisbon Treaty because it’s already been put in place across the rest of Europe."

Not a lot of people know that... ;)

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Well they have said it will have no democratic legitimacy if it's ratified and would 'not let it rest'. I'm unsure what they will do though, as they can't abandon it once Gordon's undemocratically signed it in. You could leave these in the comments though you know! :D

If I developed every issue I would have a never ending post. I take your point though.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

A Tory hits the headlines for some scandal or other Wynonie:eek::eek::eek: I'm shocked and not a little amazed to even think of it:D

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Apparently the Telegraph have got hold of a disk of MP's expenses and will be publishing them in tomorrows paper!

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Daily or Lancashire?

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Sorry, daily. Tomorrow is going to be a big news day I think..

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Don't get excited I read it hours ago, nothing interesting to report ;)

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

from what I gather the list published by the Daily Telegraph is for members of the cabinet.... if or when a complete list of ALL Mp's expenses is published I've got an inkling it could be far more embarrasing for the Tories ;)

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

methinks ya have more chance of being struck by lightening.;) i aint seen it yet, but suspect andrew has n is playing the owd "Spin" game.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

It is only right that MP expenses should be known by the public... I hope theTelegraph publish all MP's claims..unedited!
whoever sold the disc to the press must have the brains to have made copies...so lets hope the truth comes out .

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

You can always rely on the good old Daily Telegraph to get down to the nitty gritty, and publish the facts.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Can't wait for the Tory and Lib-Dem expense claims, which I'm sure will be every bit as embarrassing as the Labour ones we've seen so far. However, as the fragrant Harriet Harman loftily proclaimed to us last night, it was all within the rules. Rules which this cosy Parliamentary club drew up themselves to ensure that they profited at the taxpayers' expense. And don't forget that this information has had to be dragged out of them, as they put every obstacle in the way to ensure that we didn't know about their little games.

It's also worth remembering that we're actually getting less value for money from our elected representatives. Because politicians of all parties have been happy to surrender large parts of our independence to the EU superstate, the amount of legislation they have to deal with has actually be greatly reduced over the years.

They may be within the rules , but what a bunch of greedy, money-grubbing, self-serving sods!

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

It makes me angry when a politician says 'it was within the rules'. It may well be, but it's certainly not within the spirit of the rules is it! I'm sure there will be members from other parties whom will get found out too Wynonie, I think the Telegraph are publishing more in the coming days..

Transparency has been a long time coming, I'm pretty sure we will all be getting better value for money now that they can be held accountable to the spending of tax payers money.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

I've written todays on MP’s Expenses Claims Leaked Part 1 | Andrew Barrett's Musings if people don't want to buy the telegraph.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Well to me this is a dead duck politically, I am not naive enough to think that Labour MPs are the only one's "playing within the rules" when it comes to exes. The only thing that I have a problem with is that Whitter than White Government was one of the 5 pledges put forward by New Labour prior to the 1997 Election, I think could do better is rather an understatement to say the least:rolleyes:

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

It's fascinating (in a grim sort of way) to see all the dodges that our money-grubbing representatives get up to to maximise the amount of dosh they can wring out of us. For instance, kitting out their "second home" with freebies, then notifying the authorities that they are switching over and specifying their "main place of residence" as their "second home" so they can spend lots of our hard-earned money on that...all within the rules, of course.

Interesting that Cameron and Clegg are very quiet about all this...I wonder why? ;)

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Exactly what I said in the post above yours:D

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

So, have our honourable members shown the slightest amount of contrition or regret over the revelations? Not on your life! Excuses, evasions and the blanket statement, "it was in the rules" are all we've had from this greedy lot. The fact is, it was not in the spirit of the rules and a large number of politicians on both sides of the House have simply used their positions to grab as many goodies as they can at the taxpayers' expense.

They are getting angry about something, though...the fact that details have been leaked prematurely to the press. In fact, they're so angry that they're calling the police in. Well, maybe, this would never have happened in the first place if they'd released their full expense details when they were asked to four years ago, or perhaps last year when the High Court ordered them to. The simple fact is that they did not want us, the public, to know just what a bunch of freeloaders they are!

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MPs expenses
 

Heard an interesting interview this morning with a chap who was one of Tony Blair's team in the early days, when he said that because MPs only get £60 odd thousand a year, it has been an unwritten rule that they made up there wages by using the expense system, that it was a noted thing, and that old hands in the commons usually took the newbies to one side and tipped them the wink as to what to do and how to do it, that is of course before they realised that their exes were going to be published, now things have quietened down. You couldn't make it up could you:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MPs expenses
 

It's disgraceful Jaysay! One should be going into parliament for good reasons, not to live a life of luxury at the expense of the taxpayer.

There's another load revealed today, including the first Conservative: MP’s Expenses Claims Leaked Part 2 | Andrew Barrett's Musings

MP's have claimed 41p for a lemon and 5p for a carrier bag - you couldn't make it up!

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

if there is a 4 year limit that at least should cover the last 2 year of Blairs premiership should it not , would be interesting to see what he and Cherie claimed in expenses ,maybe the construction of a "mini Sistine chapel" complete with goldleaf in the basement of his family home, all ready and waiting for his conversion after he saw the Light :eek: :eek:

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

this is how the US press is covering the expenses row
British MPs expense X-rated movies, horse manure

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

I've noticed that the freeloaders now have a new cliche to add to the old "I was only acting within the rules" line. They're now parroting that "the system is wrong" ad inifinitum with a look of desperation in their eyes. How about "it's a fair cop, guv" instead?

What a bunch of greedy, grasping, hypocritcal, manipulative, snout-dipping, dishonourable, thoroughly reprehensible individuals! :mad:

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

the main crime here is to come unstuck. most people would work a fiddle if it presented itself.:rolleyes:

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Karma sent Wynonie, I have been saying for many years that a good proportion of MP's are in it purely for what they can get out of it for themselves, but then, if you see what the monarchy take out of taxes (and I no longer believe that it is balanced by a return), they have a good example shown to them.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

but they are within the rules, like Cashman says most people in any job would claim expenses if it was legitimate to do so...to my mind the real outrage here is the MP's expenses system itself.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

spot on, glad someone can see the full picture.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

I don't think 'within the rules' is at all an excuse. Especially when you're in public office using public money. Moving your second home, to a seaside home 100 miles away from your constituency then spending £22,000 days later fixing rot? It's blatant abuse but 'within the rules'. I don't know how they have the nerve.

A Conservative MP James Gray not only claimed £60 for the cost of Remembrance Day wreaths, but then sent a complaint to the claims office when he was told he couldn't have the money. He'd 'got away with it before'. He needs the party whip withdrawing.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

i agree its no excuse, but its also fact, i base that statement on many years representing various bodies, i never once claimed more than i was entitled, sometimes didn't even claim, but am well aware " Many" did, cos it was there to do, ya have much to learn andrew if ya assume people are any different.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Did these people write and vote on their own rules?

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Rules made by who? As I read it they set the rules and just because it is within the rules does not make it right. These are the same people who pay our pensioners a pittance and our carers the grand sum of £53 per week. It is disgusting:mad:

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

stop clutching at straws, the principles the same.:rolleyes: 2 of the 3 bodies did, but irrelevant.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

could'nt agree more....and some of these fine upstanding politicians have the cheek to lable some people recieving benifits as "scroungers"

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

They should be ashamed of themselves but shame is something they obviously don't feel. All they can do is bleat on about it "being within the rules" Being within the rules does not make it right:mad:

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

agree but rules are always exploited, fact of life.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

It's not the same principle at all. Firstly this is public money, paid for by taxes which everyone has no choice but to pay. Secondly you're saying it's okay because it was within the rules, except they are playing judge and jury! They set their own rules, which allowed some of them to abuse the system. How is it that not every MP is abusing the system? Not everyone is the same, some people will be prudent with public money, and use public office to help others. Some are clearly using it to stuff their own pockets and help themselves. It's shameful.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

you stupid boy, i am not saying its ok, if ya care to read what i said properly,in various posts, i am saying its a fact of life n the way it is, simple really, but obviously beyond your comprehension.:rolleyes:

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

The point that this is "public" money we are talking about is valid..but taken as a whole this sort of fiddling expenses within the rules is common place in private business...still don't make it right but it's far from unique in this society...I've worked for companies were executive staff have claimed thousands for furnishings and company cars etc...and then held board meetings questioning working staff claiming for a packet of tea bags!

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

It may be within the rules, but it's not within the spirit of the rules. The Additional Cost Allowance was because MPs outside London need somewhere to stay while they're sitting in Parliament. To buy a residence and furnish it on expenses may be OK. To then switch their second home status to their family home in the provinces and then to refurbish and refurnish THAT at the expense of the taxpayer is sheer greed.

This is why our MPs have fought tooth and nail over the last four years not to reveal these expenses, this is why when these expenses were due to be officially published in July, they wouldn't have included addresses. The official reason was security, but the real reason was so we wouldn't know about their second home switching scam.

And, by the way, I'm not just having a go at Labour politicians. Tories and LibDems are implicated in this, too!

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

like the old saying Wynonie..you can't expect turkeys to vote for Christmas.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Tory expense scams revelations due tomorrow...not meant to be pleasant reading for the boy David. See, they're all at it.

I can, however, categorically say that no Official Monster Raving Loony Party MP has ever claimed a penny in expenses. ;)

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Alan Duncan Tory Shadow Leader of house... £4000 over 3 years for gardening. Tried to claim a one off £3100 but claimed he raised with the fees office that it may be seen to be not within the spirit of the rules as it was 'excessive' therefore did not claim.

Quite a few in tomorrows Telegraph. Some paying some back... has to be asked: would they have paid it back if this information hadn't come out?

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Must say that there seems to be quite a few innocent MP's targeted. Some of the labour ones for example had given receipts for products but not claimed all the items on the receipt, but the Telegraph had got them for it anyway. Likewise a couple of people have simply moved home and not profited from the 2nd home allowance, but they've been targeted anyway for changing their second home.

On the most part they're pretty deserving of being published though!

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

I agree with you this time Andrew..some disc has been bought by a newspaper that may be the truth but then again could have been edited. overall it is a good thing for the public and like has been said it maybe well sort the chaff from the weed.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Amazing how low some of them will stoop, isn't it?

Tory MP James Gray is exposed as a greedy skinflint after claiming for Remembrance Day WREATHS on expenses. - while Marathon hero Phil Packer crossing finishing line. | News | News Of The World

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

I think the biggest scandal so far is that Northern Irish, Sinn Fein MPs who have never taken up their seats in the Westminster Parliament, have claimed £500,000 for second home allowances, under any rules that is an utter disgrace, that is down right thieving and nothing else:(:(:(

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Surely the next question should be "When will these ba*t*rds pay back what they have taken?" And then if they refuse to do so, can we expect to see a line of Black Marias outside the Palace of Westminster with the culprits being escorted into the back in cuffs? And if all that fails, can we expect to see a June election?

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

I think we can safely say no on both counts Tealeaf, even if they're all tealeafs:D

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Now the Speaker of the House has called the police in, as he is far more concerned about who leaked the info. Sums it all up, really...all these contrite expressions of regret mean nothing. The only thing they're sorry about is being found out!

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

to my mind "playing within the rules " sounds a lot like "I was only following orders" and where did we hear that .....some other Govt. chaps on trial

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

i think its ironic when these thieves label many on benefit- scroungers, people that earn a few quid on the side as frauds, n come down hard on em when they catch em. seems a tad hypocritical to me.:rolleyes:

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

I must say that the tory greed shows an upper crust lifestyle -
moat clearing, chandelier hanging, swimming pool heating and helipad maintenance:rolleyes:

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MPs expenses
 

The only thing is cashy, if people on benefits are caught fiddling and the SYSTEM they are dragged before the courts are made to pay the money back and more often than know do a bit of bird with Norman Stanley with plenty of porridge:(

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

It just gets worse and worse...

Not only are they looting our money, they're not even paying tax on it. Us mere serfs and peasants can be liable for tax on some of our expenses paid by our employers. But this greedy lot voted through the Tax (Earnings and Pensions) Act in 2003 which gives them special exemption from tax liabilities relating to their allowances.

Brown and Cameron should make them pay their ill-gotten gains back, but I'm not holding my breath...

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MPs expenses
 

Couldn't agree more Wynonie, but as I can't hold my breathe I'm not crossing my fingers, can't do with people who make the rules but don't play the same game:(

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MPs expenses
 

they are all the same, just a very few decent M.P.s thats why i say - stuff em all.:rolleyes:

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

just as I expected...always had a feeling the whole expenses fiasco may be more embarrasing for the Tories. ;)

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Pity poor old Greg......he has to work with this lot.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

The worst was having the moat drained at their castle.

I hope every one of them, irrespective of which party they belong to, finds themself without a seat after the next election.

You half expect the Tories to be feathering their own nests at the public expense, it's sort of traditional, but it's even more galling when Labour MPs are at it, because they only won the election in '97 on an anti-sleaze ticket.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Whiter than white government was the term used I think Rindi

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

"Tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime" so let's get them all locked up as they are always telling us about Benefit Fraud and what really gets on my xxxx is the fact that this story has pushed the disgusting unemployment figures off the front page

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

yeh wadey but don't ya know.......... not a crime if yer n M.P.:rolleyes:

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

It is a bloody crime even if you're an MP and I hope anyone who broke the rules gets investigated by the relevant authorities. I'm glad those who broke the spirit of the rules are paying back the money they took from the public purse!

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

i know its a crime,you know its a crime andrew, they don't see it that way.:)

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Thing is that they weren't fiddling the system, the system was flawed in the first place to allow them to do this 'within the rules'.

Rules are made for worst case scenarios - for example, I don't think anyone would argue that MPs who live a long way from London have to have two places of residence. In effect, these long distance MPs have two very different and distinct jobs - they have to look after their individual constituents and they have to be available in Parliament to vote and debate on issues - I suppose they all have this but for long distance MPs there could be 100s of miles in between the two jobs. What is wrong, is when every MP (well not every MP) decides to claim the 'worst case scenario'.

I think the rot set in when MPs were allowed to be selected as MP for a region without living there - if they do that then they clearly aren't interested in that region they're interested in being an MP. Fortunately, Greg is a local lad, lived locally and wanted to represent the people closest to him. There are less and less like him these days.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

know what yer saying gayle, that don't always follow though, "Davidson" was not a local lad, to my recollection, he was also "Oppositon" if memory serves me right, but he was a good M.P. fer accy at that time.:)

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

The Tory leader does'nt think so and has ordered, yes ordered all Tory MP's to hand money back for dodgy claims that should not have been made.
David Cameron has closed the loophole.
Where is Flash Gordon Today?.........another crisis and no Gordon.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

Will they all do so though? Gogs is waiting to see if they all do then claim that even the opposition are not as squeaky clean as they think they are. MP's need to fix this but doubt they will even with a 3 way whip as it is a "Brucie Bonus" to some. A bit like the conveyer with all the goodies that you got if you remebered them.

Re: £10,000 offered to leak MP's expenses
 

about as believable as the arabs n jews being friends.:rolleyes: n yes i saw the news. n if some is paid back aint cos its wrong, its cos they been caught, get real.