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-   -   Potential Labour Candidate for Hyndburn (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/potential-labour-candidate-for-hyndburn-49671.html)

jaysay 07-12-2009 09:01
Re: Potential Labour Candidate for Hyndburn
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones (Post 768021)
Yes your right. Opposition positions do not count. I think it is more a conflict of interest as much as too many fingers.

Jaysay - Unitaries. Labour at LCC did oppose and also said a County wide unitary was the best unitary.

Peter and the Cons saw us merge with Ribble Valley. It failed because everyone saw it exclusively from their own perspective.

My view then and now is more devolution. 85% of services come from Preston. It would mean mergers and Hyndburn giving up 15% to a bigger authority in order that Police, Fire, Education and Social Services were big enough to cope. An East Lancs or Pennine Lancs with Town Councils would be an ideal balance in my view.



Dividing Hyndburn up into the various towns. Under this model town councils would be more meaningful and people would have more power locally.


I have to say I agree with your view on this Graham, it must be better if there was more power locally, rather than County Hall

Bernard Dawson 07-12-2009 09:38
Re: Potential Labour Candidate for Hyndburn
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 768095)
I have to say I agree with your view on this Graham, it must be better if there was more power locally, rather than County Hall
That's twice I've caught you agreeing with Graham. If this carries on we will be thinking we've got an extra vote up Ossy.

turkishdelight 07-12-2009 09:43
Re: Potential Labour Candidate for Hyndburn
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 768092)
Sir Tom McKillop - Chair of RBS took home £471,000 in 2009
Sir Peter Middleton - Chair of Barclays was paid a whopping £1.76m

I'm not saying it's right and I'm certainly not going to argue that £80k isn't a lot of money, but let's put it in perspective. We're paying some of these Chairmen a huge amount of money for running banks - isn't it right that we should make it attractive to be an MP and for running the country?

So, my quibble isn't with the amount that MPs, County Councillors or Councillors take home, I think they earn and deserve every penny - my only concern would be that - long term- they would be spreading themselves a bit thinly by trying to do all three. However, I think that - short term - it's probably a good idea to keep hold of the positions that they already have so that it keeps them 'in the loop' when it comes to making decisions at all levels.
Regarding putting this into perspective take a look at all the hard work,unsocial hours, nurses and doctors put into their profession touching no where near that salary, just one example.I believe they equally deserve every penny. In addition yes i believe your correct and agree with them holding on until elected to keep in the loop however once elected they should withdraw from all other positions held and give other individuals a chance.

turkishdelight 07-12-2009 09:55
Re: Potential Labour Candidate for Hyndburn
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 768092)
Sir Tom McKillop - Chair of RBS took home £471,000 in 2009
Sir Peter Middleton - Chair of Barclays was paid a whopping £1.76m

I'm not saying it's right and I'm certainly not going to argue that £80k isn't a lot of money, but let's put it in perspective. We're paying some of these Chairmen a huge amount of money for running banks - isn't it right that we should make it attractive to be an MP and for running the country?

So, my quibble isn't with the amount that MPs, County Councillors or Councillors take home, I think they earn and deserve every penny - my only concern would be that - long term- they would be spreading themselves a bit thinly by trying to do all three. However, I think that - short term - it's probably a good idea to keep hold of the positions that they already have so that it keeps them 'in the loop' when it comes to making decisions at all levels.
Not sure at all about making it more attractive to be an MP for running the country, in my opinion a would question the good job they have done perhaps a change of government then i may agree with that statement.

jaysay 07-12-2009 10:13
Re: Potential Labour Candidate for Hyndburn
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson (Post 768102)
That's twice I've caught you agreeing with Graham. If this carries on we will be thinking we've got an extra vote up Ossy.
In your dreams Bernard:D no but seriously just because we belong to different parties with different outlooks on things doesn't mean that you can't agree on some issues. I happened to agree with Graham on the Unitary Authorities issue, to me it make sense

Bernard Dawson 07-12-2009 10:23
Re: Potential Labour Candidate for Hyndburn
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysay (Post 768115)
In your dreams Bernard:D no but seriously just because we belong to different parties with different outlooks on things doesn't mean that you can't agree on some issues. I happened to agree with Graham on the Unitary Authorities issue, to me it make sense
That's right, like you I'm big supporter of unitary authorities. We as a Council should have bit the bullet on unitary authorities a few years ago, when we had the chance.

andrewb 07-12-2009 10:37
Re: Potential Labour Candidate for Hyndburn
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 768092)
Sir Tom McKillop - Chair of RBS took home £471,000 in 2009
Sir Peter Middleton - Chair of Barclays was paid a whopping £1.76m

I'm not saying it's right and I'm certainly not going to argue that £80k isn't a lot of money, but let's put it in perspective. We're paying some of these Chairmen a huge amount of money for running banks - isn't it right that we should make it attractive to be an MP and for running the country?

So, my quibble isn't with the amount that MPs, County Councillors or Councillors take home, I think they earn and deserve every penny - my only concern would be that - long term- they would be spreading themselves a bit thinly by trying to do all three. However, I think that - short term - it's probably a good idea to keep hold of the positions that they already have so that it keeps them 'in the loop' when it comes to making decisions at all levels.
I can see your argument. I don't think you can compare the two however. If the chairman of a private bank (yes I know RBS is currently nationalised) was paid a lower sum of money, the talent would almost certainly move elsewhere. I don't think this is the case for Members of Parliament. The £65,000 salary is already in the top percentage of incomes. There is no shortage of people applying to selections, even in so called 'safe seats'.

My problem in this case though is not the money, it is the ability of an individual to do three jobs. Graham has already stated that he would not take an allowance from district and county council. I disagree with him - if he is doing a job he should take the appropriate salary for it. Given however that an MP would need to be in London during weekdays, I find it hard to believe that an MP would be able to carry out the jobs of district and county councillor and that of an MP simultaneously.

A good constituency MP should be in communication with council, councillors and the electorate on a frequent basis anyway, without needing to occupy two additional elected offices. It would be interesting to see what Greg Pope thought on the issue.

Bernard Dawson 07-12-2009 10:50
Re: Potential Labour Candidate for Hyndburn
 
Some talent in the banking sector in this country Andrew. They were largely responsible for the banking slump, didn't see it coming. And then didn't know how to deal with the problem once it was on us. Some talent.

Gayle 07-12-2009 11:24
Re: Potential Labour Candidate for Hyndburn
 
I'm not arguing against you Andrew, to be honest, I think we appear to agree.

I think it's all a matter of timing as to when they stood down and if they caused unnecessary by elections.


For instance, if Graham or whoever represents the Conservatives won, there would be no need to stand down from council or County council immediately - he could perhaps tie it in with the local elections the following year, thereby not incurring any additional cost.

Whilst I agree there is a considerable amount of time that MPs need to be in London, equally they need to be in the constituency as well, so I'm sure that with a good PA they could be at the relevant meetings when needed.

andrewb 07-12-2009 11:35
Re: Potential Labour Candidate for Hyndburn
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 768141)
I'm not arguing against you Andrew, to be honest, I think we appear to agree.

I think it's all a matter of timing as to when they stood down and if they caused unnecessary by elections.


For instance, if Graham or whoever represents the Conservatives won, there would be no need to stand down from council or County council immediately - he could perhaps tie it in with the local elections the following year, thereby not incurring any additional cost.

Whilst I agree there is a considerable amount of time that MPs need to be in London, equally they need to be in the constituency as well, so I'm sure that with a good PA they could be at the relevant meetings when needed.
I'm more sympathetic to somebody standing down a year later to prevent by-elections, but I don't think they should serve a full term. I say I'm only sympathetic because if both candidates refuse to step down as councillors prior to the general election, then I'm not sure if it's best for the successful one to stay on a year as a second rate councillor, or to cause a by-election. I honestly cannot see how even with the best PA in the world it would be financially and time possible to run the three jobs. The House sits in the day but often sits late at night, with late night voting, so vital council meetings will be missed. There is simply no need to take additional jobs over a long period for the sake of 'being in the loop' which being the Member of Parliament for Hyndburn should already entail.

jaysay 07-12-2009 15:34
Re: Potential Labour Candidate for Hyndburn
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gayle (Post 768141)
I'm not arguing against you Andrew, to be honest, I think we appear to agree.

I think it's all a matter of timing as to when they stood down and if they caused unnecessary by elections.


For instance, if Graham or whoever represents the Conservatives won, there would be no need to stand down from council or County council immediately - he could perhaps tie it in with the local elections the following year, thereby not incurring any additional cost.

Whilst I agree there is a considerable amount of time that MPs need to be in London, equally they need to be in the constituency as well, so I'm sure that with a good PA they could be at the relevant meetings when needed.
You think Gayle:rolleyes: wonder if Greg might like to give his thoughts on this, I know when Ken Hargreaves was MP there wouldn't have been much chance of combining the two

g jones 07-12-2009 15:41
Re: Potential Labour Candidate for Hyndburn
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil (Post 768035)
I thought that was the idea behind the Accrington and Districts with the start in Great Harwood.
That proposition was for three tiers of Councils. I am against bureaucracy. I have to pinch myself to even say the words Town Councils and 'Pennine Lancashire Authority because that's still 2 tiered government. The simplest I accept this compromise is along the lines of this for example: That Town Council's may choose the way/order/numeracy of grass cutting in their area but there will only be one grass cutting manager within the Unitary Council. And when you are talking Chief Execs salaries there are some savings to be made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turkishdelight (Post 768088)
Huge salary. Expenses on top? Do you believe that one could run all three positions effectively? Correct me if i am wrong it appears to me that it is taking two vacancies that other individuals could sit on. In this economic crisis meaning employment for others, whichever political party they stand for.I consider an individual should not hold all three positions.
Somewhere nearer the beginning I said I thought it wrong for an MP who was an outgoing Councillor to claim both. In my case I would not claim a penny (allowances or expenses) past polling day. There are a lot of Councillors standing at the general. Wonder how many resign but collect up until to the day they leave office?

I think Andrew B is right, collectively the basic is £80k for the three. If you have maximum responsibilities it could be £64k+£25k+£30k.

Eric 07-12-2009 19:36
Re: Potential Labour Candidate for Hyndburn
 
Has it ever crossed anyone's mind that the party system has had its day, and that it is time to rethink how we "deliver" democracy? Just a thought after reading these political threads .... not worth a thread of its own.

Gordie 07-12-2009 23:20
Re: Potential Labour Candidate for Hyndburn
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric (Post 768289)
Has it ever crossed anyone's mind that the party system has had its day, and that it is time to rethink how we "deliver" democracy? Just a thought after reading these political threads .... not worth a thread of its own.
No,I do not think it has crossed anyone's mind that the party system has had it's day.Take a break go and shoot a few possums. :D

jaysay 08-12-2009 09:01
Re: Potential Labour Candidate for Hyndburn
 
Erics very good at pig hunting so watch out Gordie:D


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