Gun Control
 

Interesting to see the reaction in the US to the shootings in the cinema in Colorado.

A nutcase is able to buy four guns and 6,000 rounds of ammunition over the internet, perfectly legally and above board.

Any right minded person would immediately ask why, and how do we prevent it from happening again. But apparently not the American public. They are satisfied with the current gun laws, and the Presidential candidates would run a mile before calling for reform.

Fair enough. The victims and their families may get our sympathy, but lets not waste any sympathy whatsoever on such a sick country. Seems like they get the leaders they deserve.

We have had our gun tragedies over here, but at least we have reacted by tightening the gun laws, and apart from on a few thoroughly dodgy Council estates in Manchester and Liverpool, we are gun free.

Lets be grateful for that!

Re: Gun Control
 

We have been here before on Accyweb... posts 43, 58 and onwards.
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...s-60943-4.html

Tightening gun laws does very little to prevent crime, it merely puts a lot of hassle in the way of those who use guns legally for sporting or business purposes.

Re: Gun Control
 

The yanks are reluctant to surrender their guns because they have too many trigger happy policemen.

Re: Gun Control
 

Plus as they have No real history, Cowboys are the nearest thing.:rolleyes:

Re: Gun Control
 

...and the gist of that discussion is that responsible people doing responsible things responsibly with guns should be responsibly allowed to get on responsibly with responsibly shooting rabbits or responsibly going about their day to day business responsibly. Moreover, anyone challenging their right to do so is behaving irresponsibly.

Thats fine, but I ask only one thing. Where does a crackpot booby trapping his apartment and going to a cinema and shooting 70 people with legally obtained firearms and ammunition fit into the discussion?

Re: Gun Control
 

So you believe what the media have reported:eek:

Re: Gun Control
 

Damn, Damn, it must be another conspiracy............:hehetable

Re: Gun Control
 

He doesn't, neither did Derrick Bird in Cumbria nor the guy in Norway a year ago, nor the perpetrators of Hungerford or Dunblane or Columbine. There's no legislating for what goes on in people's minds.

Re: Gun Control
 

....it could be lies with a (gun control) agenda
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ies-48617.html

Nothing surprises me anymore. If I need to chuckle I watch the news.

Re: Gun Control
 

Whilst i assume most folk are well aware of the "Tripe" Bullshine" etc given out by the media, most rational folk i reckon wouldn't question this shocking incident!!!.............The irrational ones........Well thats another thing. Everything that happens in life aint a conspiracy.:rolleyes:

Re: Gun Control
 

When different 'eye witnesses' give widely varying versions you cannot believe any.

If you weren't there, you can't ever know.

Re: Gun Control
 

yeh will always get that wi any tragedy, its called Shock.:rolleyes:

Re: Gun Control
 

But four guns and 6,000 rounds of ammunition? Are you saying nobody should have questioned why he wanted them? Some proof perhaps that he was registered with a shooting club? Or lived on a farm?

Re: Gun Control
 

There was an incident like this which resulted in gun control laws in Australia.
Many of the 'facts' presented at the time were later proved false scientifically.

THE PORT ARTHUR MASSACRE CONSPIRACY by Joe Vialls

Re: Gun Control
 

I have five guns and about 200 rounds of ammo. No one questions why I have them. I don't belong to a shooting club, or live on a farm.

Re: Gun Control
 

So how do you propose preventing the Colorado shootings from happening again, Eric? Shrug your shoulders and say "Oh well, boys will be boys"?

Re: Gun Control
 

I find I get more out of what little life I have by stop watching the news, something I did around three months ago, whey add depression to your problems:rolleyes: after all there's sod all the man in the street can do about it, which has been proved time and again, you elect somebody local to represent you and within a short time they too are part of the establishment;)

Re: Gun Control
 

You and me both John, the trouble today is we're bombarded with "news" 24/7 and folks get all worked up about things they see and hear.**** happens and always has whether it's reported or not, you can't change human nature.

Re: Gun Control
 

Why ask Eric? What's your take on the matter? Do you really think "preventing the Colorado shootings from happening again" is realistic? Dream on!

It's possible that some folks, through lack of understanding how anyone could want to have such a thing, thinks that everyone who owns a gun has a screw loose and should be locked up. You could equally well say that someone with a murderous intent could fill their car full of explosives and drive it into a crowded shopping centre. But we don't stop people owning cars.

Re: Gun Control
 

Well they tried a total ban on handguns in this country over 12 years ago, what good it did I don't know, certainly wouldn't have deterred the criminal, but it did stop genuine shooting enthusiasts from carrying on with the sport, so much so that the British Pistol Shooting Team had to practice in France, while the gangs still carried on shooting each other on the street with great regularity

Re: Gun Control
 

Words of wisdom there John (John is my other name:D)

Fact is why does anyone who lives in a USA Town or City need an assault rifle? They don't! So simply why are they freely available with very little back ground checks! I would accept that one handgun is alright for self defence which is one main reason these pro-gun people claim is why they have a gun. It really as a Massive problem to change the law as there are thousands of yanks with weapons more than legally allowed and so on! It's a minefield basically.

Re: Gun Control
 

Why does any ordinary citizen need an assault rifle is my question, if their argument is well I need a gun for self protection, its a little bit cumbersome walking the streets with an AK47 slung over your shoulder:rolleyes:

Re: Gun Control
 

That's my point exactly! :)

Concerning this Aurora shooter - James Holmes, the Sun newspaper claims he sat in the cinema for 20 mins before starting his attack. How do you sit in a cinema with a shotgun and an assault rifle and not get confronted by security? Doesn't make sense! :confused:

Re: Gun Control
 

Haven't heard that, but it does seem very strange, even for the good old US of A doesn't it:rolleyes:

Re: Gun Control
 

Well I read somewhere else it said he was sitting in the cinema, then got a phone call, left the theatre and moments latter "someone" burst in wearing all the protective gear and helmet and started the carnage.:confused:

Re: Gun Control
 

There is one version of the story that a person exited a fire door, wedged it slightly ajar, and he allegedly gained entry that way.

Whether you believe any of it is up to you.

Re: Gun Control
 

In Sunday's Sun it says James Holmes had studied the Norweigan killer Breivik who killed 69 people last year Read the manifest of Anders Behring Breivik

Coincidently this attack took place 1 year after Breivik's to the day. Both these people were heavily into playing violent video games - perhaps the were living out violent video games fantasies.

Re: Gun Control
 

So you believe that too :rolleyes:
Did you know either of them personally?

Re: Gun Control
 

Read on the net this morning that they have arrested another chap for threatening more outrages if they didn't set free the guy they have for the incident, makes you wonder whether it was a one man job:confused:

Re: Gun Control
 

Well Breivik supposedly admitted playing video games as practice for his slaughter! :eek:

You can't disbelieve everything.

This is what the news said last night about it...

News program on Colorado Shooting - YouTube

Re: Gun Control
 

I don't supposed Kes does but the fact that this atrocity is on the anniversary of the Swedish even holds some water, and that's not a conspiracy either, its a fact:rolleyes:

Re: Gun Control
 

A point I made on the previous thread on this subject, my brother being one of those affected and he had been a hand gun shooter all his adult life.

Re: Gun Control
 

It was in Norway John but apart from that yes it does seem rather more than a coincidence.

Re: Gun Control
 

Norway Sweden there all descended from Vikings:There's a fine line between them susie:D

Re: Gun Control
 

No I didn't know them! :rolleyes: Another puzzle is this guy Holmes does not seem to have an Internet presence which is unusual for a young man studying science! :confused:

Re: Gun Control
 

He may be an actor like the people mentioned in this video

Filthy Actors EXPOSED! Code Pink, Loughner, Unabomber, Olimpic Park Bomber - YouTube

Re: Gun Control
 

Well Margaret I don't see the similarities of that woman that the maker of this video claims! I then found another video he made that says David Icke is Richard Branson! :eek:

The Case For Conspiracy EXPOSED! - YouTube

Re: Gun Control
 

I agree that some of his claims are outlandish and 'way over the top' (even for me:D), but his method of mapping ears has convinced me that SOME of what he reveals is true.

You believe what you feel comfortable with - that is your right.

Re: Gun Control
 

Well I certainly don't think that Icke and Richard Branson are the same - no way! If I had the will I could take photos of many people who all look similar and then try and bend it so I say they are all the same people acting. Many people do look the same and this guy is simply stretching his imagination to make them into dopplegangers! :rolleyes: Is this guy making these vids "paranoid dellusional"? That is he is deluded that people are acting and conspiring in a way that they are not...

Re: Gun Control
 

errr....I think you'll find it was me who STARTED this thread by giving my take on the matter. We've tightened the gun laws in this country, and while we haven't prevented the occasional incident, we have at least ensured that it is kept to a minimum.

Of course the Colorado shootings will happen again, but that shouldn't stop us from looking for ways to make it as hard as possible for these idiots to build up an arsenal of arms.

Re: Gun Control
 

Thank you... I do know that you started this thread, I have been reading from the beginning. You seemed to be asking Eric if he had concrete proposals to deal with this as he is a gun owner and I just wondered if you also had any more ideas that you wanted to put forward as you were not very specific in your first post.

Re: Gun Control
 

Maybe more like "nut bars and whack jobs will be what they are". Maybe one should look at problems other than guns. But, I do agree that certain kinds of guns ... assault rifles and hand guns come to mind ... should be kept out of the hands of the public. Oh, and you can't prevent mass shootings. It's a fact of modern life, and not only in the US. Norway doesn't seem to have the cowboy mentality, but they had an even worse event. And the death toll at Dunblane was worse if I remember correctly.

Re: Gun Control
 

Your nuts if you want to relax gun laws in the UK.
I live in Oakland. CA, and we had 105 gun homicides last year... just in our city!
9000 Murders by Gun in US; 39 in UK
It is WAY out of control in the US, and the gun lobby are a powerful lever on politicians. The second amendment was written 250 years ago and strangles any progress on this tragic mess.

Re: Gun Control
 

I don't think anyone is suggesting going down that route...

Re: Gun Control
 

1987 Hungerford 16 deaths
1996 Dunblane 17 deaths, 16 of them children, making this a more emotional subject
2010 Cumbria 12 deaths

In all three cases the gunman committed suicide. These crimes span a period of 25 years. Dr Harold Shipman killed over 200 people over his working life of 20 odd years and killed himself in prison. Has anyone any good ideas as to how we could prevent or legislate for such occurrences??

Breivik in Norway shot and killed 69 people where gun laws appear to be very stringent.

Sensible article here about gun laws, especially the part about teaching children to shoot.
Shotguns aren't the problem – criminals are - Telegraph

Re: Gun Control
 

The mention of David Icke, is quite enough for me thank you:rolleyes:

Re: Gun Control
 

The fact that we do have these gun laws which are ineffective, with the criminal element, is bad enough, criminals have never played by the rules and were never going to comply with the hand gun legislation when it was introduced, the only people it did effect was the genuine sportsman

Re: Gun Control
 

What has it got to do with us ? It's an American problem & it's down to their constitution the 2nd amendment, "the right to keep & bear arms" it's been around since Dec 15 1791.

Now unless the Americans change their constitution & then face down the NRA, which I very much doubt because of the weight & influence that they can bring to bear. No politico if he/she intends to stay in the game for any length of time would even contemplate these changes & challenges.

The UK has got some of the toughest gun laws & punishments possible & it still can't control the criminal gun users. So instead, Plod & the powers that be have relentlessly pursued the legal possessors, then having been raked over the coals & stultified by over regulation most tend to lose interest & give up.

Re: Gun Control
 

Sensible as always Dave - and summed up in eight words...

Re: Gun Control
 

[quote=MargaretR;1004316 but his method of mapping ears has convinced me that SOME of what he reveals is true.[/quote]That has given me the best laugh I've had all day...

Re: Gun Control
 

That Second Amendment really has the yanks messed up, although I doubt that many of them have read it, especially the first bit: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State ....".

There are just too many of us living on this planet. And in the large cities in the West, they are living too close together .... with too much poverty and too little opportunity. And, esp. in the land of the Glock, with too many guns readily available. It amuses me that in a country with a problem with road rage, many folks can legally have a hand gun in the glove compartment. No wonder they have bumper stickers in California saying: "Cover me, I'm changing lanes":rolleyes: Obviously, we have problems facing us which can't easily be solved. But, some attempt at controling the sale of firearms can't hurt. But nothing will stop nut bars from showing up in places like Aurora and Dunblane, armed to the teeth, just looking for folks to kill.

Just crossed my mind that the US is only marginally safer than Syria right now:eek:;)

Re: Gun Control
 

Perhaps your subscription to the New Scientist has lapsed.:rolleyes:

Sign in to read: Ear recognition may beat face biometrics - tech - 23 July 2005 - New Scientist
" Ear recognition may beat face biometrics
EAR-shape analysis could be better than face recognition at automatically identifying people.
Mark Nixon, a biometrics expert at the University of Southampton, UK, has developed a technique to capture the shape of an ear and represent it in code. Unlike faces, ears do not change shape over time.
In an initial study using pictures of the ears of 63 people, Nixon and his colleague David Hurley found their method to be 99.2 per cent accurate. Nixon thinks this could be improved.
The technique could be used to identify people from CCTV footage, or incorporated into mobile phones to identify the caller, says Nixon. The study is due to be published in the journal Computer Vision and Image Understanding".

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...67865511003400
Ears have rich structural features that are almost invariant with increasing age and facial expression variations. Therefore ear recognition has become an effective and appealing approach to non-contact biometric recognition.

Re: Gun Control
 

Sorry Margaret - I'm quite happy to go along with this as a valid technique. What made me laugh was the thought of Icke and Branson having their ears compared. From your previous post I though it was the guy who came up with the videos who was responsible for the ear-matching technique, rather than the scientists you have just cited.

Re: Gun Control
 

Apology accepted - sometimes you like to be treated as our scientific wizz kid - nice of you admit that you are fallible.

I hope I spelt that right:rolleyes:

Re: Gun Control
 

Hope so, I'm only human. A very gracious post, thanks.

Re: Gun Control
 

So what you saying? Branson is actually David Icke and they are one and the same carrying out two seperate existences. I don't think so really don't.

Re: Gun Control
 

Neither do I.:)
If you look at more of his videos, the convincing ones are where he shows the same actors appearing at different media news events across USA.
Which verifies the theory that many news events are 'staged'.

Re: Gun Control
 

Mmm the video you first posted I looked at it and I didn't see the same similarity that this guy claimed! and to be honest I don't have the time to get all the video's and check the ears and decide if he is right! I just think it's too far fetched that all these news events are staged and contain the same people repeatedly. I just think it could lead someone to mental illness to keep believing that everything on the news is lies and made up of actors put there by some "secret organisation" who are doing this.

Some conspiracy people of extreme nature are saying that this latest shooting never actually happened! To say that in my view is total bonkers...

Re: Gun Control
 

Some news is staged and, in that video you posted, the senate enquiry interrogation showed that to be an admitted fact.

It is called 'propaganda'.

You don't recognise it to be so if you cannot think of the reason for them doing it.

Just because you don't know a reason, doesn't mean that one wont eventually dawn on you.

Re: Gun Control
 

First off Margaret - he says this woman Lisa Fithian is this other woman a lawyer called Judith Clark - they look nothing like each other - I think the guys off his rocker. He then goes on to say she is a third person as well who looks totally different. I think he's wrong.

Re: Gun Control
 

Its laughable that the government have allowed pistol shooting to go ahead at the London 2012 Olympic when the handguns they will be using are illegal in the UK.

If hand guns are so bad they have been made illegal we should not be holding shooting competitions in this country.

Re: Gun Control
 

The Hungerford guy had guns for hunting and was also a gun club member. I think after he went beserk they changed the law and no longer allowed pump action shotguns that shot more than 2 cartridges - well they reduced the amount of cartridges to be allowed in a shotgun. Dunblane guy had them for what purpose - what purpose does a man in Scotland have 4 handguns for legal use? They reckon he was a paedophile who was about to be rumbled for indecent activities. Breivik was also a farmer who had guns for hunting, held legally as he was seen to be a sound guy before he "flipped!" Derek Bird the Cumbrian killer also had his guns legally for hunting. Then there was Raol Moat???

So all these people had guns legally for legit use and blew a fuse and turned them on people. The GP Harold Shipman was an exception to the rule, he didn't use guns he used medicine - there has only been one of them in the time there have been 4 using guns!

Re: Gun Control
 

If I was not a moderator I would tell you that you talk out of your backside.
I am so I wont :rolleyes:

Re: Gun Control
 

Don't come that pal - I summerised the facts about these folks.

Since 1987 4 mad men killed with legally owned guns! Only 1 GP killed patients as the post I replied to mentioned Shipmen. There have also been several killings with illegal weapons by criminals - namely Rauol Moat who shot a policeman and two thugs in a shop in London who shot and maimed a school girl.

In 1988 after Hungerford law was changed banning semi auto handguns and pump action shotguns holding more than 3 rounds ( I said 2) bla Bla!

So why the insults? You talk at your backside sir!

Re: Gun Control
 

My only point Kes in mentioning Shipman was that he alone killed far more people than those gunmen put together.

Re: Gun Control
 

Oh yes indeed. Leading to more nutters who might pick up a gun and start massacring. That is truly scary.

Re: Gun Control
 

Well you have a point, seeing that the pistol shooting team at the 2000 Olympics had to practice in France, think it must be bending the rules just to suit the occasion;)

Re: Gun Control
 

One thing I've always noticed about moderators they have a way with words, well some of um do:rolleyes:

Re: Gun Control
 

Funny that I was just looking at replying to this post but didn't then you did - so we was both looking at it at the same time! :)

Course they have to bend the rules and the chances of something going wrong are virtually nil!

Re: Gun Control
 

Na they tend to be pretty good shots these people, no spare rounds flying about:rolleyes:

Re: Gun Control
 

And this is how Americans respond to Aurora:

Gun control losing support in U.S. despite mass shootings - World - CBC News

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

I think there are more than a few yanks who think killing people is ok, and a great way to solve problems (and get access to oil:rolleyes:). It's not only the nutbars, it's much of Middle America and lotsa places south of the Mason-Dixon line. There's definitely a gun culture down there. Guns are great for solving problems. Even personal and mental problems. Get fired? No problem. Grab a gun. If you don't have one call in at the local gun store (usually next to the liquor store:D), buy one and drop into your old workplace. Waste a bunch of people.:uzi::uzi::uzi: Then you can either kill yourself, or get arrested and watch yourself on tv for a week or two.

Re: Gun Control
 

Well said Eric agree with what you are saying. America is a country of contradictions - most Christian country in the Western Hemisphere yet simultaneously love their guns which are designed to kill people.

Also since the Aurora shooting gun sales in Colorado have gone up - 25%! :confused::rolleyes:

Texoma Gun Sales Up After Colorado Shootings - KTEN.com - No One Gets You Closer

Re: Gun Control
 

I suppose they may well be thinking "If a person in that audience had been armed, he would have been 'downed' after the first shot".

When people feel threatened and are placed in fear mode, they decide to provide themselves with some sort of defence.

Re: Gun Control
 

Yes but even in the States I'm not sure most people would take their guns to the cinema.

Re: Gun Control
 

They may do now ;)

Re: Gun Control
 

Well Mr Holmes did susie.:eek::D

Re: Gun Control
 

Eye witness accounts contradict official version that there was only one person involved in this attack! :confused:

Batman Massacre: Eyewitness Testimony CONTRADICTS Official Story - YouTube

Re: Gun Control
 

Yeh never know, many want the 5 mins of fame, but would imagine a phone record check aint beyond em.

Re: Gun Control
 

The only time the competitors will be allowed to have their pistols is when they take part in a competition, at all other times they will be kept in the armoury at Bisley. They will not even see them after they enter their transport to the UK, customs & excise will have them in sealed containers. The UK competitors will have to get theirs transferred from France, or the other places they practice.

Re: Gun Control
 

All that to perform in a sport that is illegal in the UK

Re: Gun Control
 

Ain't that the truth.:D

Re: Gun Control
 

Are you an angry ex-hand gun owner or something? As you don't seem happy that they've been banned?

Re: Gun Control
 

This guy in this clip says there was only one guy shooting but he seems to have missed the phone call bit at the beginning. He also says it only last 2 mins...

Colorado 'Dark Knight' Shooting Witness: 'I Saw A Guy Right Next To Me Getting Shot' - YouTube

Re: Gun Control
 

I think the answer is, if they're banned why are so many people still being shot on the streets of this country, banning hand guns didn't do a blind thing to improve the situation what so ever

Re: Gun Control
 

You can't really say for sure - it may have been worse if hand guns were still legal!

Latest news about this Colorado shooting is that the guy who allegedly did it, sent a notebook to a psychiatrist describing that he wanted to kill people - the letter/package wasn't opened till after the incident!

http://news.yahoo.com/report-colorad...99.html?_esi=1

Re: Gun Control
 

Looks like my neighbours are going to have even more gnus (Jaysayism;)):

U.S. gun sales surge after Colorado theatre massacre - World - CBC News

Those guys are unbelievable, eh. Can't wait for the next one. If those fun loving guys in Syria don't crank it up a notch, Damascus will be a safer holiday destination than Detroit.:eek:

Re: Gun Control
 

Ex Chief Inspector Coline Greenwood did a survey of gun crime & gun laws from the introduction of the 1937 Fire Arms Act, as more fire arms laws were introduced gun crime increased, the police & home office mantra was the gun owners are to blame, then came Hungerford & more laws, all fire arms owners had to have a photograph on their permit, and acess to medical records, gun crimes increased yet again, stiil the home office blamed the gun owners for the increased gun crime. Then came Dumblane, & Hamiltons rampage, he was not a member of any of the local gun clubs, they wouldn't have him as a member, even the local sergeant in charge of fire arms had recommended he should have his permit withdrawn, but he was over ruled.
Following that Blair rode into power on the promise to band all hand guns. Guess what gun crime has increased out of all proportion to its previous levels.
Who can the police & the home office blame now, what did the ban on pistol shooting achieve.
The only thing it did was brainwash every one into the thinking that guns are evil, even kids can no longer play cowboys & indians, without some brainwashed clown reporting them to the plod, who turn out like a septic swat team, acting like they are up against John Wayne & the Commanchero's.
You'd be surprised how many time the cops have lost their side arm, and the number of accidental discharges is disgraceful.

Re: Gun Control
 

Absolutely Spot On Walter, the more rules are made the more people want to ignore them, its the thumb nose at officialdom syndrome

Re: Gun Control
 

No, never owned or fired a hand gun.

It was a complete waste of tax payers money banning hand guns and has done nothing to reduce gun crime which was the excuse for the ban. In reality it was all about politicians jumping on the band wagon to gain support for themselves by those stupid enough to think it would reduce gun crime.

I take it you are one of those that think it has reduced gun crime?

Re: Gun Control
 

Have you looked at all the statistics? To be honest I can't say for sure of it has reduced it? The increase in violence may be for other reasons than access to guns - perhaps it would be worse if hand guns could still be obtained under licence?

Take airguns - they were used by many "idiots" in our society and it's the actions of those idiots that got the stricter airgun laws brought in - in which one can be imprisoned and or fined for using air-guns in away that breaks the law.

Re: Gun Control
 

Use an air gun in an inappropriate way and your breaking the law so why more legislation

Re: Gun Control
 

Well they had to redefine the law because a lot of thugs were using airguns in crime and intimidation as it was legal to use them in your own back yard and there were no laws - they had to change it to disallow use within 100metres of a public place. Which means you can no longer shoot one in your garden or backyard unless 100 metres from another's property or public place - just in case of stray pellets hitting someone nearby.

Re: Gun Control
 

Gun laws won't stop a thug like this character getting a gun and blowing someone away in the street off a whim!

'Psycho' gets at least 30 years - UK News - MSN News UK

Thing is this guy will live of his vicious actions in prison and be respected by criminals. This is why he should be kept in solitary confinement which will stop him from bragging about his crime and being some kind of hero.

Re: Gun Control
 

Re: Gun Control
 

I agree - but he will find some people who look up to him for it.

Re: Gun Control
 

You speaking from first hand experience, reading the daily mail or watching Dirty Harry films?

Re: Gun Control
 

I've picked it up off documentary's and news programs. He was already involved in gang culture before he did the crime - so from those types of people he'll get respect...

Re: Gun Control
 

Why should we give a fig about whether or not he gets respect from other useless losers in prison? All that matters is that none of them ever get let out.

Re: Gun Control
 

That's the point though, the scum was only given a maximum of 30 years, so he could get out. No such reprieve for the poor lad who he callously shot, or his heartbroken parents. In cases of coldblooded murder like this, life should mean life...and in the harshest of conditions.

Re: Gun Control
 

That's why I kind of like the American sentencing, Life without the possibility of parole, 40 years to life, or better still the needle, gas chamber or the chair, which is exactly what these scumbags deserve:mad: