Americas overseas empire - Page 3

SPUGGIE J · 10-07-2007, 20:14

Ok the Americans did cover our backsides but 2 things stick in my mind which I believe are linked.

1. At the end off WWI General Pershing said at Versaille that the Germans should be forced to surrender instead of an armistice. The Great Powers stuck 2 fingers up at him and went for armistice leaving the Germans beaten but though unable to fight able to claim later on they were not defeated and could have carried on the fight a myth that Herr Hitler used to a tee. Hence the problems that appeared in the 30's.

2. The league of nations was formed yet America refused to join and went into isolation. One result was that when Japan decided to invade Manchuria the only power that could stop them was "unavailable" something that they would later regret considering what Tojo and his mob got up to. It did alarm them yet the Japanese just walked from the League of nation and did as they pleased. Yet If America had been part of the League would Japan have proceeded as she did?

The way I see it Pershings was ignored so America decided sod the League and the European powers and let them sort out their own issues. What did we get for the stupidity on both sides of the pond, another dose of war that was to become truely global. So maybe America has decided not to take anymore chances and is making sure they can kick butt if needed. If America hadnt been part of the UN then we wouldnt have a democratic South Korea and some sembelence of peace in that region down purely to American military might.

Now America is the police force and only real superpower though China will catch up soon. Yes its an Empire of sorts as with all Empires it is to protect what they hold true and dear and also to protect trade that they do. Money makes the world go round and as has been stated the USA is rich but would have suffered a slump after WWII because of the bankruptcy but bailed out everyone to keep their own econemy afloat and avoid another Great Depression.

Stanaccy · 10-07-2007, 21:03

Right before Bullseyebarb gets her dander up again, I agree we did need America in WWII to finish off Hitler, however it was the RAF that saved us from invasion.

The Marshal plan has to be one of the greatest philanthropic acts of all times. The support of the UN through the 50's and 60's help keep world peace in difficult times.

Policy did begin to change and paranoia of anything left of rabid conservatism helped corrode those ideals in the 70s and 80s. (think south east Asia and Nicaragua).

Foreign policy again improved under Clinton (Whatever you think about his internal policies he was a great staesman and brilliant at foreign policy

However because I thank them for that then does not mean I have to cow down to whatever they say now. The American foreign policy is the most self righteous, egotistical, warmongering ethos I can think of.

Until America accepts it isn't always right then there will always be hatred of it in some quarters. Winning hearts and minds is not done with an M16.

Eric · 10-07-2007, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by LancYorkYankee

As an American, your comments are much appreciated Royboy. As for the rest, your comments are understood and respected. It can be tough being an American on Accyweb. However, I certainly understand that you guys can separate us individual Americans from the Country (which I do truly love).

I truly believe that America has done much more good for the world in her short history then evil. Dag we have, and continue to, make mistakes both here at home and abroad. So much of America as individuals are in the sewer (IMO), i.e. rap music, liberals, crappy movies and "music" videos, liberals, corrupt politicians, liberals . . .

I believe a true democracy is, can be, the best form of government. In comparison to communism and various other dictatorships.
Brian

What's wrong with liberals? I vote Liberal federally; and provincially, I vote for the New Democrats (as close to Labour as you can get over here). Canadians, who don't have an Empire, nor do they want one, are natural Liberals. They don't trust the tory party, and they don't really trust the NDP, liberals in Canada manage to mix fiscal responsibility and policies to promote economic growth with medicare and the social safety net. I think next time I will vote for the Green Party ... yes, we have one.
But enough, trying to explain Canadian politics to a non-Canadian is like trying to explain cricket to a Mohawk. And believe me I have tried

and she looks at me like I'm crazy!

Royboy39 · 10-07-2007, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanaccy

Right before Bullseyebarb gets her dander up again, I agree we did need America in WWII to finish off Hitler, however it was the RAF that saved us from invasion.

The Marshal plan has to be one of the greatest philanthropic acts of all times. The support of the UN through the 50's and 60's help keep world peace in difficult times.

Policy did begin to change and paranoia of anything left of rabid conservatism helped corrode those ideals in the 70s and 80s. (think south east Asia and Nicaragua).

Foreign policy again improved under Clinton (Whatever you think about his internal policies he was a great staesman and brilliant at foreign policy

However because I thank them for that then does not mean I have to cow down to whatever they say now. The American foreign policy is the most self righteous, egotistical, warmongering ethos I can think of.

Until America accepts it isn't always right then there will always be hatred of it in some quarters. Winning hearts and minds is not done with an M16.

OK Ballseye........go to bed and reflect.
Britain is not your enemy we will stand together if you toe the line.
Identify your enemy and go for them and don't bite the hand that keeps you afloat.
If you are British born and have not been brain washed I will accept your views .

Royboy39 · 10-07-2007, 21:46

I might have got involved in a political argument here between our country cousins here...............Time to back out.

SPUGGIE J · 10-07-2007, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royboy39

I might have got involved in a political argument here between our country cousins here...............Time to back out.

Its not a pollitical argument its the facts that leads to the situation we have. We cannot changed what happened but at least we can learn and hopefully not make them mistakes again.

Eric · 10-07-2007, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

Its not a pollitical argument its the facts that leads to the situation we have. We cannot changed what happened but at least we can learn and hopefully not make them mistakes again.

There are no "facts." What passes for "fact" or "reality" is a fiction built from bias. But don't quote me.

LancYorkYankee · 11-07-2007, 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royboy39

OK Ballseye........go to bed and reflect.
Britain is not your enemy we will stand together if you toe the line.
Identify your enemy and go for them and don't bite the hand that keeps you afloat.
If you are British born and have not been brain washed I will accept your views

Dag Roy boy, IMO, there is no need to tell anyone on Accyweb to "go to hell." This especially in a mere discussion thread.

Secondly, since Barb is British born, but may have different views from you, will only cause you to assume she's been brainwash. Can't you rather accept that she and millions of other Americans have different views from you. Also that living here these many years gives her a different, if not better, perspective from you?

Not a sermon, just a thought!

Brian

steeljack · 11-07-2007, 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by LancYorkYankee

Can't you rather accept that she and millions of other Americans have different views from you. Also that living here these many years gives her a different, if not better, perspective from you?

Brian

Sorry Brian , have to disagree with you on this one , writing as an American (though born and bred in Accrington and District) I think Barbs views are a little extreme , No way do I or many other 'left coast/California liberals' think that the US should be the worlds policeman.
What I think most Americans [probably yourself included] want is for our Govt. to look after America first, and at the present time the US is starting to look like the proverbial house of cards .....ready to come crashing down.....
The $ is worth less and less every day compared the Euro/British Pound/ Canadian dollar, due to the cost of the war in Iraq
Inflation a the grocery store is out of control due to the international energy companies encouraging farmers to switch to bio-fuel crops instead of cattle feed grains.
Our balance of payments to China is way out of whack , it's now nearly impossible to buy anything with a 'made in America' label , all the manufacturing jobs have gone .......When I go to the local Sears to buy a pair of Levis I expect them to be American made not some label saying 'assembled in Honduras' , if I need new tires for my truck I want them to come from Akron , not some place in China , knowing that they may blow out at 60 mph. here in California we are building a new Bay Bridge with Federal and State funds, guess where the steel is coming from .... not Pittsburgh Pa. ........no , China ........we longer build our own bridges .
I think most Americans and probably most Brits think the same ....they have been let down by their own elected officals in the name of 'Globalization' with the West being pulled down to third world levels with the excuse being that globalization is raising third world standards , nonsense the only people benefiting are the international Bankers and Multi-national corporations and we are using our militaries [US and UK as proxy mercenaries .
Seems to me there is more than a bit of hypocrisy in some our elected officials when they cry foul when most Americans want to build a wall on our Southern border yet the have no qualms about our number 1 ally in the mid-east building walls and creating 'ghettos' in the west bank and Gaza.

and yep, even as a west coast liberal , I have voted twice for the Austrian guy (Arnold) in State elections.

expat · 11-07-2007, 09:17

This thread has been great to follow, great history lesson,I wish I could come in on this, but I nicked off school the day they had history,just a couple of comments though, did England crack the code, and allowed Pearl Harbour to Happen so America would come into the war,this is not a dig, I just heard it somewhere.Oh and just one more comment, before I return to just reading this thread Go to Hell was a bit strong.

Royboy39 · 11-07-2007, 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by expat

This thread has been great to follow, great history lesson,I wish I could come in on this, but I nicked off school the day they had history,just a couple of comments though, did England crack the code, and allowed Pearl Harbour to Happen so America would come into the war,this is not a dig, I just heard it somewhere.Oh and just one more comment, before I return to just reading this thread Go to Hell was a bit strong.

Probably was and I apologize for that, it was not meant as it came across.

cashman · 11-07-2007, 12:21

not being a physcologist

i think the go to hell comment was just a throwaway remark that royboy made, sort of thing i say myself on a regular basis, dont mean owt nasty with it,just the way i talk, say things as i see em, some folk cant handle/ dont like, that well soz thats me tough.

MargaretR · 11-07-2007, 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by expat

This thread has been great to follow, great history lesson,I wish I could come in on this, but I nicked off school the day they had history,just a couple of comments though, did England crack the code, and allowed Pearl Harbour to Happen so America would come into the war,this is not a dig, I just heard it somewhere.Oh and just one more comment, before I return to just reading this thread Go to Hell was a bit strong.

I have heard about Churchill not telling US that Pearl Harbour would happen. Some 'official secrets' have a 100yr disclosure date -our children will know the truth eventually.
As for 'The Grumpy Old Men' on this forum

- make allowances for them - your time will come

cashman · 11-07-2007, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

I have heard about Churchill not telling US that Pearl Harbour would happen. Some 'official secrets' have a 100yr disclosure date -our children will know the truth eventually.
As for 'The Grumpy Old Men' on this forum

- make allowances for them - your time will come

chuck berry has spoken

who loves ya baby,just made my day margaret.