Americas overseas empire

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by Royboy39

Come on Margaret thats sexist............What about the ones in curlers?

The avatar is Les Dawson in drag as you well know
I happen to not need curlers since my ginger hair is naturally curly - are you being 'gingerist'?
As it happens - this avatar seems to be doing what I hoped it would - because Les Dawson was a lovable comedian nobody has been nasty to me while I have it - and I get more comic responses.
'The image says everything'

PS sorry off topic

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

The avatar is Les Dawson in drag as you well know
I happen to not need curlers since my ginger hair is naturally curly - are you being 'gingerist'?
As it happens - this avatar seems to be doing what I hoped it would - because Les Dawson was a lovable comedian nobody has been nasty to me while I have it - and I get more comic responses.
'The image says everything'

I'll go for that

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

The avatar is Les Dawson in drag as you well know
I happen to not need curlers since my ginger hair is naturally curly - are you being 'gingerist'?
As it happens - this avatar seems to be doing what I hoped it would - because Les Dawson was a lovable comedian nobody has been nasty to me while I have it - and I get more comic responses.
'The image says everything'

PS sorry off topic

And here was me thinking that you are a dead ringer for Les Dawson in drag. I was too polite to mention it before.

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by jambutty

And here was me thinking that you are a dead ringer for Les Dawson in drag. I was too polite to mention it before.

Put a picture in my profile (just for you dear X )

(we are off topic again)

[Eric]

Originally Posted by steeljack

Sorry Brian , have to disagree with you on this one , writing as an American (though born and bred in Accrington and District) I think Barbs views are a little extreme , No way do I or many other 'left coast/California liberals' think that the US should be the worlds policeman.
What I think most Americans [probably yourself included] want is for our Govt. to look after America first, and at the present time the US is starting to look like the proverbial house of cards .....ready to come crashing down.....
The $ is worth less and less every day compared the Euro/British Pound/ Canadian dollar, due to the cost of the war in Iraq
Inflation a the grocery store is out of control due to the international energy companies encouraging farmers to switch to bio-fuel crops instead of cattle feed grains.
Our balance of payments to China is way out of whack , it's now nearly impossible to buy anything with a 'made in America' label , all the manufacturing jobs have gone .......When I go to the local Sears to buy a pair of Levis I expect them to be American made not some label saying 'assembled in Honduras' , if I need new tires for my truck I want them to come from Akron , not some place in China , knowing that they may blow out at 60 mph. here in California we are building a new Bay Bridge with Federal and State funds, guess where the steel is coming from .... not Pittsburgh Pa. ........no , China ........we longer build our own bridges .
I think most Americans and probably most Brits think the same ....they have been let down by their own elected officals in the name of 'Globalization' with the West being pulled down to third world levels with the excuse being that globalization is raising third world standards , nonsense the only people benefiting are the international Bankers and Multi-national corporations and we are using our militaries [US and UK as proxy mercenaries .
Seems to me there is more than a bit of hypocrisy in some our elected officials when they cry foul when most Americans want to build a wall on our Southern border yet the have no qualms about our number 1 ally in the mid-east building walls and creating 'ghettos' in the west bank and Gaza.

and yep, even as a west coast liberal , I have voted twice for the Austrian guy (Arnold) in State elections.

I think you are right in much of what you say. What America is going thro' now, England went thro' in the late 19th cent. The move from manufacturing to paper shuffling and legal money laundring makes sense for those few well-heeled people who will make money from it, but the workers and the industrial infrastructure suffer.

But there is another point of view: take the automobile for eg., most cars made in the US are, to be kind, pieces of s**t. The work force may complain about the outsourcing of jobs, but if they made better stuff perhaps it would sell. We all know that the best car for the buck is not the chevvy but the Toyota. I think that Admiral Beatty got it right, when , at the Battle of Jutland, he said: "there is something wrong with our bloody ships today." Damn right there was; they were made in England. (On the other hand so were the sailors, much can be made of sub-standard military equipment by superior fighting men).

[SPUGGIE J]

Well as for Beatty at Jutland it was a case of the top of the pile didnt talk to the bottom shoody planning and lousy execution of the act. As per usual the top blamed the bottom when the cowpats flew up top and blamed all bar themselves. Does that sound familiar in this day and age and in what America is going through now?

[Eric]

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

Well as for Beatty at Jutland it was a case of the top of the pile didnt talk to the bottom shoody planning and lousy execution of the act. As per usual the top blamed the bottom when the cowpats flew up top and blamed all bar themselves. Does that sound familiar in this day and age and in what America is going through now?

Its more than that. Correlli Barnett' s "The Sword Bearers" has a good chapter on Jutland, "Sailor with a Flawed Cutlass." Whatever the failings of the high command, many of the ships were junk.

Also I think it is not only the Iraqi war that is driving down the greenback. It is a lack of faith in American leadership. One can't expect the rest of the world to understand the convoulutions of the American political system, but it does not take much detailed knowledge to realize that the leader of the country, if left to himself, could not run a hot dog stand. The strong performance of the loonie is due more to the fact that Canada probably has more oil than the middle east ... not easy to get at but it's there, and at today's prices it is profitable to extract it. And the strength of European economies is due more to their innovation and expertise and less to the American military screw ups.

And I don't think Barb's ideas are all that extreme. If they were GWB would not be President. The scary thing about the majority of the American voting public is that they think like Barb. But that is democracy and the First Ammendment. Ironic that the strengths of America are also, in a sense, its greatest weaknesses.

[LancYorkYankee]

This will sound odd but I agree with you Steeljack as well as with Eric. And still at the same time agree with Barb.

Certainly the West coast and Northeast are much more liberal then the Southeast and the Midwest. So Barb's views are extreme for certain areas of the country but rather normal for the south.

Your other great and obvious point Eric was regarding American products and their crappy workmenship these past 30 years (IMO). I gave up on the American auto mobile after going through a chevy (Vega) , Ford (Tempo), Ford (Ranger), Oldsmobile (Cierra). Not only were these all cheaply made, the service departments were so customer unfriendly!

I put alot of blame on the Unions and also on the Government (IMO).

Quick point on Royboy's statement. It may be a bit of a cultural thing. In this area, that statement is taken as bad as the F word (and that means they aren't used often and are greatly offensive)(IMO). May be more shocking to see from me then to how it's used over there eh?

Brian

[LancYorkYankee]

A comment on the Pearl Harbor conspiracy. My view is that Roosevelt was itching to get us in to get us out of the depression. That's why all our Battleships were lined up so nicely in the harbor and all the planes were set right next to each other. At the same time. all our crucial aircraft carriers were far from the carnage.

IMO, Britain had an absolute right to be pee'd off by America's lack of involvement. To sit back and watch the bombing of London. Terrible. We should have had forces over there in England before the Battle of Britain (Probably as we saw what was going on at Dunkirk!). Hence either preventing it from happening or to at least render material force.

Brian

[Eric]

Originally Posted by LancYorkYankee

A comment on the Pearl Harbor conspiracy. My view is that Roosevelt was itching to get us in to get us out of the depression. That's why all our Battleships were lined up so nicely in the harbor and all the planes were set right next to each other. At the same time. all our crucial aircraft carriers were far from the carnage.

IMO, Britain had an absolute right to be pee'd off by America's lack of involvement. To sit back and watch the bombing of London. Terrible. We should have had forces over there in England before the Battle of Britain (Probably as we saw what was going on at Dunkirk!). Hence either preventing it from happening or to at least render material force.

Brian

I don't think so. I know that supporters of Adm. Husband Kimmel have tried and maybe still trying are (that's my Yoda immitation) to clear his name. I am aware that the theory is that Washington witheld intelligence, sort of like the Brits dropping lightly armed paras onto the 21st. Panzer Division even tho' aerial photos showed they were there. But Pearl Harbor was a FUBAR, and if one includes Gen. Short, a JANFU. The Japanese learned from the Brits and their attack on Taranto. The US didn't.

What makes this slightly relevant to this discussion is the "waking the sleeping giant" aspect. In this sense the Japanese attack on Pearl is one of the root causes of modern US militarism and imperialism. In 1940 ... from May/June on anyhow ... the US could not have rendered any "material force" help. They were as unprepared for the Germans as Stalin was.

And a brief (fairly) quote: "Half a century has passed, and the time has come to sweep away the myths and reveal the no less inspiring gleam of that complex and frightening time in which evil was in the ascendant, goodness diffident, and the British -impetuous, foolish, and brave beyond measure - the world's only hope." (And Canadians, Australians, and New Zealanders too)

[bullseyebarb]

Enjoyed reading the rest of the thread, between packing for my next trip. Hey, LYY, thanks for taking up the cudgel on my behalf.

Despite some of the popular misconceptions on this site, most Americans are not myrmidons. We are neither far to the left or right - but we are a right of center country. Perhaps the problem for some of you is that we aren't terribly keen on relinquishing our national identity and independence. Ditto our Bill of Rights. Nor do we wish to get sucked into the bureaucratic maw of an EU/UN style form of governance, whereby the sovereignty of individual countries is eroded.

I haven't been brainwashed by anyone. I was an adult when I made my decision to leave England. America was and remains a better fit for me.

Although our demise has often been predicted, I remain optimistic about my country and its endeavors.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

Enjoyed reading the rest of the thread, between packing for my next trip. Hey, LYY, thanks for taking up the cudgel on my behalf.

Despite some of the popular misconceptions on this site, most Americans are not myrmidons. We are neither far to the left or right - but we are a right of center country. Perhaps the problem for some of you is that we aren't terribly keen on relinquishing our national identity and independence. Ditto our Bill of Rights. Nor do we wish to get sucked into the bureaucratic maw of an EU/UN style form of governance, whereby the sovereignty of individual countries is eroded.

I haven't been brainwashed by anyone. I was an adult when I made my decision to leave England. America was and remains a better fit for me.


Although our demise has often been predicted, I remain optimistic about my country and its endeavors.

Hope you enjoy your vacation, Barb. And a little joke for you; hope you find it a little funny: "Why did the Canadian cross the road?" Ans: To get to the middle.

Here's wishing you a safe journey.

[bullseyebarb]

Originally Posted by Eric

Hope you enjoy your vacation, Barb. And a little joke for you; hope you find it a little funny: "Why did the Canadian cross the road?" Ans: To get to the middle.

Here's wishing you a safe journey.

Thanks, Eric. Off to Teddy Kennedy country again. Always a rip.

Enjoyed the joke.