is this right ? "The Anti-Social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill

[westendlass]

Originally Posted by jaysay

There will never be a "socialist government" again Wyn when so called socialist get elected they just jump on the gravy train and forget about all for one and one for all, or in the words of the "Red Flag" The working class can kiss my arse I've got the bosses job at last

John Prescott springs to mind, anyone for croquet?

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by jaysay

There will never be a "socialist government" again Wyn when so called socialist get elected they just jump on the gravy train and forget about all for one and one for all, or in the words of the "Red Flag" The working class can kiss my arse I've got the bosses job at last

You might be right, Jay, but there are quite a few on here who hanker after an old Labour socialist government. If such a government did come to power, it would inevitably have a liberal, pro-immigration policy and a pro-EU policy. It's bound to, because left wing socialists are internationalists - and if you don't believe me, go and ask Bernard Dawson!

[cmonstanley]

there are socialists who don't want to be in Europe ,same as tories or any other party. don't forget Maggie and john major started the descend as we know it by signing the Maastricht treaty and implementing it. as for immigration and economic migrants ,the british have been doing the same for centuries . the tories are coming out with there is less coming in, what they really mean there is less being counted as they sacked the staff who did the counting remember some tories wanted the euro as well. some labour wanted it some didn't like Gordon brown the Schengen Implementation Convention of 1990 , started the immigration and free movement and who was in power ye the tories

[accyman]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

You're still not answering my question, Accyman. I might have got you wrong but I seem to recall that you are one of the many on here who wants a return to a traditional socialist Labour government. Do you really think this will result in more stringent immigration controls and a more sceptical and challenging attitude to the EU? I suggest you go and find some Labour party left wing socialists and expound your views on immigration and the EU to them - them come back and tell us how many times you've been called a "racist", "xenophobe", "little Englander" and the rest.

to be honest id much rather the lot be shot in teh street and a new set of people and a democracey returned to our country because the current system has way out run its course and needs a seriuos revamp

whatthat revamp entails is another discussion but what we have now and have had teh past few decades has been rotten to the core

we need a modern day guy fawkes but with a better success rate :-)

[Boeing Guy]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

the Schengen Implementation Convention of 1990 , started the immigration and free movement and who was in power ye the tories

Hang on the UK is not a signatory to the Shengen Agreement. Which is why you need your passport to travel across the channel.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy

Hang on the UK is not a signatory to the Shengen Agreement. Which is why you need your passport to travel across the channel.

Yeh rotten sod.......That don't fit in wi Cmons Thesis.

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy

Hang on the UK is not a signatory to the Shengen Agreement. Which is why you need your passport to travel across the channel.

Obviously he doesn't travel to the European mainland - hopefully we will soon be able to class him as an illegal immigrant when Scotland becomes independent

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

there are socialists who don't want to be in Europe ,same as tories or any other party. don't forget Maggie and john major started the descend as we know it by signing the Maastricht treaty and implementing it. as for immigration and economic migrants ,the british have been doing the same for centuries . the tories are coming out with there is less coming in, what they really mean there is less being counted as they sacked the staff who did the counting remember some tories wanted the euro as well. some labour wanted it some didn't like Gordon brown the Schengen Implementation Convention of 1990 , started the immigration and free movement and who was in power ye the tories

Once again you reduce the argument to a garbled, semi-comprehensible party political broadcast on behalf of the Labour party. You talk about "debate" but you don't seem to be capable of debate in any meaningful sense of the word.

Yes there are socialists who are Euro-sceptic, the most prominent being Tony Benn but they're the exception to the rule. The vast majority of left wingers inside and outside the Labour party are pro-EU. The Euro-sceptic element in Parliament comes from the right wing of the Tory party, most of whom would be despised on here for their political views.
As for immigration, I wasn't making any comment on whether immigration is a good or bad thing. I was merely pointing out that most socialists are pro-immigration and the more leftwards you go the more pro they become. So there's a basic contradiction on Accyweb from those who want a return to a real socialist Labour government but who adopt an "Enoch was right" attitude on immigration and I was wondering how they squared that contradiction (apart from Accyman's idea of blowing the lot up and starting all over again!).

[accyman]

admitidly my debating skills are not much better than cmon's but i do feel a murder spree in the house of commons is a great idea i just struggle putting it into debate format ..

maybe a poll of some sort is required

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

there are socialists who don't want to be in Europe ,same as tories or any other party. don't forget Maggie and john major started the descend as we know it by signing the Maastricht treaty and implementing it. as for immigration and economic migrants ,the british have been doing the same for centuries . the tories are coming out with there is less coming in, what they really mean there is less being counted as they sacked the staff who did the counting remember some tories wanted the euro as well. some labour wanted it some didn't like Gordon brown the Schengen Implementation Convention of 1990 , started the immigration and free movement and who was in power ye the tories

go on give us a clue where did you cut and paste that from

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

Obviously he doesn't travel to the European mainland - hopefully we will soon be able to class him as an illegal immigrant when Scotland becomes independent

Can't wait Barrie, what a great day that will be

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by accyman

admitidly my debating skills are not much better than cmon's but i do feel a murder spree in the house of commons is a great idea i just struggle putting it into debate format ..

maybe a poll of some sort is required

So you started all over again? So why would you expect it to be any different?

You'd just get a set of politically minded types, some with left wing opinions and some with right wing opinions.

You're not going to get politicians with the worldview espoused by many on here - ie left wing on the NHS, public services, the welfare state, taxation, but right wing on immigration, law and order, the EU.

Sorry, mate, no such animal.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

So you started all over again? So why would you expect it to be any different?

You'd just get a set of politically minded types, some with left wing opinions and some with right wing opinions.

You're not going to get politicians with the worldview espoused by many on here - ie left wing on the NHS, public services, the welfare state, taxation, but right wing on immigration, law and order, the EU.

Sorry, mate, no such animal.

Can't fault that Wyn, the thing is 90% of the public don't give a toss about politics or political parties, I can guarantee that I could stand on a street corner in Ossy and ask 100 passers bye which ward they live in and who is their councilor and 90 of them won't have a clue and what's more don't care either

[Less]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Can't fault that Wyn, the thing is 90% of the public don't give a toss about politics or political parties, I can guarantee that I could stand on a street corner in Ossy and ask 100 passers bye which ward they live in and who is their councilor and 90 of them won't have a clue and what's more don't care either

Could that be because of whose ward it is?

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by jaysay

the thing is 90% of the public don't give a toss about politics or political parties

I'd disagree with that Jay, everything we do or see is influenced by politics whether it be in our private or work lives. Rule, regs & pretty much all the minutiae we face daily stem from political decisions taken now or in the past. I'd say that most folk have political opinions, but, there's no political party that can cover all that the individual requires, hence an ongoing disillusion with the political classes & their self serving ways.

Like Wynn said, there's no one party that holds the views & feelings of the average man on the street, Carlsberg don't do Politics ..... but if they did!