Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon:D and I bet we don't here from Mancie for a day or two either. Its surprising what happens when you have a decent Ref who is not afraid of making the right decisions, irrespective of in whose favour its in at Old Trafford, for a minute I tough the game was at the cricket ground 1-4 is a mauling in anybodies book and it weren't luck neither:mosher:

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

No problems with the Ref...United have been less than convincing lately and a deafeat has been on the cards ...very bad in defence today ...Vidic was under pressure the whole match until he got the red card and the 3rd goal killed us off, to be honest I thought Liverpool just played their normal game.. I don't think they played any better than usuall but United had little response...the scoreline is hard to take (jammy scouse gits) ;)

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

One swallow does not a summer make.

One win at Old Trafford does not a Premiership Title gain.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

United won't mind taking one embarrassing result as they've got the league in the bag. It's just one game.

As much as I'd like to see someone else win the title, no one even comes close to United in terms of deserving it.

Give it a couple of seasons and the blues will rule the roost :)

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Nice one Mancie, at least you can take defeat like a gentleman, just:D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

And one scouser does not a crimewave make......Ummmm! :D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

I've had one or two:D
Mancie I hate good losers so don't try to make out you're one.
Jam Butty I can't be bothered and where is "yerself", I hope we draw you scum in the Champions League because Rafa has you lot sussed, can we play you every week.:D:D:D:D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

nowt jammy about it liverpool far better on the day a good result will make sir? a have a rethink good for football. and united penalty was a no no.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

....and I've had a few too Bagpuss!!
4-1 in their own backyard is a result to die for. I know the Prem is probably too much with games remaining but Hell - we'll be in the mix and the mancs will be looking over their shoulders....

....Utd won't like it at Fulham next game out....

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Ok guys, you know I am not heavy handed but a little common decency please!
Keep it on track!
Ta!

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Saw the highlights on MotD. United were very poor indeed. Rooney came back from injury too soon - he isn't playing well and his frustration doesn't help the team. Evra (who is usually as solid as they come) made two or three massive mistakes. I don't think Vidic should've been sent off. With regards to his glaring howler; 99 times out of 100 he would've dealt with that ball over the top no problem - Liverpool got a little lucky there - but Torres showed his quality as the best striker in the league to finish it off.

All in all I think United needed that result today. One major f* up to get them on the right track.
They'll win the league before the end of the season.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

I'm here. An uncharacteristically poor display by United in general and Vidic in particular, though he should never have been sent off. For once the penalty awarded to Gerrard was the correct decision, must be the first time in a long while he hasn't dived. A minor blip, who's going lift the Premiership trophy though, Bagpuss?

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

So I take it you disagree with Ferguson's quote of "We were the better team" then? Shows he's on a different planet....

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

To be quite honest yerself United have been off track once or twice of late, I just wish Mr Wiley had have been the Ref a fortnight ago when the Rovers played United we could well have got a deserved point if not three. To be honest they were far from convincing against Milan during the week, I have never seen United pass the ball that bad for a long time, mind you I'm glad they won, as I'm one of those people who like to see all our teams do well in Europe, except Chelski that is:p:D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

I hadn't heard or read that quote. I will, however, bow to Fergie's superior knowledge of the game.:D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Must be a blood brother of Peter Britcliffe then as both talk utter drivel.:)

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

He told Sky: “It is a hard one to take because I thought, we were the better team and the score does not reflect that.”

Hold on - who was it that was supposed to be cracking up?

The better team lost 4-1? Even Jose Mourinho wouldn’t try to claim the best team lost when he’s on the wrong end of that kind of scoreline.

Mr Ferguson kiss my arse.:)

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

that comment of fergies is one of the reasons most neutrals despise Man Utd.:rolleyes:

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Remember that old Corporal Jones saying, "they don't like it up um Captain Mainwaring" seems its applicable in this case, Fergie's latest rant is he's complaining about the the kick off time and blaming Sky for the defeat, and it looked like the fans decided to get a head start back down to Surrey and Essex, with ten minutes to go the only people left in the Theatre of Merchandising were a bunch of singing Scousers:D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Vidic was the last defender and he committed a professional foul, and that means a red card.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

You forget JB they play Fergie rules at the Theatre of Merchandising, so therefore it should not have been a Red Card, the only exception is if it happens at the other end:D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

What people who complain that the away team doesn’t get a fair deal at Old Trafford forget is that what the spectator sees either live or on TV is that they do not see the incident from the perspective of the referee at the time of the incident. They may get to see TV replays but by then the ref has had to make a decision. Even then we do not get to see exactly what the ref saw because we are not looking through his eyes. We and the TV pundits just assume what the ref saw.

People are jealous of Fergie’s success much as they were jealous of Liverpool’s success in days gone by.

The top dog is always a target for the knockers and there are always plenty of them but it’s all driven by jealousy.

On the day Man U were below par and paid the price. But it does give a bit of false hope to the chasing pack.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

We all accept the fact that referees are fallable human beings and that a margin of error must be accounted for. However, the trends regarding decisions against Manchester United at Old Trafford are staggering, and to deny any correlation to United's status as a massive team with massive influence on the Premier League is silly.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

So what you are saying is that the referees are crooked. That would be classed as libel.

Could it be that teams coming to Man U are so unsure of being able to get a result, they resort to cheating and trying to con the referee and the ref sees through their subterfuge?

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Ronaldo, nuff said.:D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Gerrard, nuff said.:D:D

YouTube - Steven Gerrard, the hypocrite

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Not at all. In my opinion the officials who have helped to create such staggering trends buck under the pressure of big games. You don't get bigger games in English domestic football than those at Old Trafford.
I think the fans get to referees, as do big characters on the field (Roy Keane being a major perpetrator of the past) and off (Ferguson & Co.'s touchline antics).
To send off Vidic and give a penalty against United took a level-head and a massive pair. Fair play to whoever the ref was.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

The Ref was Alan Wiley shaker, he had a number of crucial decisions to make on Saturday and got them all spot on, if only every Ref did that, but unfortunately some are intimidated by the atmosphere and bottle it, Howard Webb was a prime example only a fortnight ago

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Ronaldo is just the tip of the football league iceberg.

All teams have their cheats. Some are good at it and some like Pederson for Rovers last Saturday needs lessons from Gerrard as that video shows quite clearly.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

You can’t argue with that.

Tried to give you some Karma but I’ve given one lot today and the system won’t allow me to give some more until tomorrow some time.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

You are judging referees by your own standards.

The top referees have got to be top referees because they do the job properly and to the best of their ability and are not swayed by the occasion. To imply otherwise, especially when you are not a referee, is to cast a slur on their integrity.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

You, like most people, are judging the referees performance from the comfort of your armchair or sidelines with the aid of replays. Your opinion is biased in favour of the team that you support and you were not a referee – were you?

So quite frankly all those people saying that the referee got it wrong are talking out of their backsides.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Most "neutrals" are not neutral because they support one team or another...when fans stop hating United I'll start worrying! ;)

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

As in all walks of life some people get to the top because of who they know, not what they know.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Heard this sort of rubbish for years...in the next breath bods will start on the other dig that Old Trafford has no atmosphere!....as Jambutty pointed out the Refs are now proffesionals, some are better than others but if any "bottle it" or show bias they can be brought to book (no pun).

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

My opinion on the issue of fairness (or lack of it) at Old Trafford stems from the trends of statistics set by the referees. There is an irrefutable trend that shows how decisions are more likely to go in favour of Manchester United when they play at home. You suggest that this phenomena is down to the attitude of the opposition team and their subsequent behaviour, and I see absolutely zero logic in that. Take Pedro Mendes' goal for Tottenham that Mark Clattenburg disallowed even though it was a yard behind the goal line. How was that anything but a humongous error from the referee in favour of Manchester United? This is not an isolated incident as you know.
Considering the wealth of similar examples, I can't think of another explanation for the trend except the high probability of referees bucking under the pressure of the big games.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

I agree with some of the comments about refs. I think the crowd can (and do!) sway decisions in favour of the home team. The thing is that the bigger the team is, the bigger the margin of decisions for that team. It isn't a question of cheating or anything (on the refs part) as we know that the ref can't see everything but rather that if he has a single ounce of doubt the voice of the crowd will play a part in his decision.
eg. Ewood's capacity is half that of Old Trafford (and usually only two thirds full!) so the noise volume of the crowd in the main part is much lower thus having a lower impact on any marginal decisions - regardless of the ref and/or his integrity.
Fans will always be wanting consistancy in decisions but the success of some teams makes that nigh on impossible. Those fans of the lower teams will always feel more aggrieved when playing the big boys away due to fan influence on marginal reffing decisions.
I'll get back in the shadows now....

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

I dont see this defeat as disasterous, a game in hand and 4 points clear, if united carry on as usual and keep winning, then there wont be a problem, as for saturdays game, 10 corners against 2, more possession, (united just didnt convert thier chances, Liverpool did) vidic, ferdinand and rooney all poor on the day, the general passing was way off the norm, it was a bad day at the office, and the better finishers won, the scoreline did belie the true game, and it will be business as usual very soon, Ferguson will make sure of it.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

This irrefutable trend is based on what the spectators see and how they think the incident should have been judged. I doubt if one of them was a referee and in any case they see things from a different angle. It all boils down to what the referee actually sees and there is no one on this planet who can corroborate what he sees. They can only guess and that is nowhere near good enough to make a case.

A ball over the goal line can look different from different angles. To be certain you have to be either on the goal line or behind it. Viewed from the pitch side it could look not completely over the line and the law is that all of the ball has to be past all of the line. I would also remind you that the actual line is still part of the playing pitch.

All your wealth of examples is based on what the spectators see and that is more often than not, not the reality.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

I do agree that the majority of criticism aimed at referees is biased rubbish. However I contest that the trend of unfairness at Old Trafford is based entirely upon spectator opinion, as camera footage we see after the game makes hard facts. This is especially true in Manchester United's case, as they are lucky enough to have their every action analysed by the Andy Grays of this world. Once camera footage clears the situation up we know whether the referee got the decision right or wrong. The facts make the trend.

Also, there isn't really a case for the referees having a different angle anymore, as modern cameras and CG replays can imitate their view with precision. This was shown on the most recent episode of MoTD, to see whether the linesman made the right call.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

disagree mancie, whilst they do support one team or another, myself n mates of that era had great respect fer liverpool when they were kings of the castle, perhaps because managers like "Shankley n Paisley were well respected throughout football (outside of manchester) only time we wanted liverpool to lose was when they played us.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

I don't hate Man Utd I just pity them, 4-1:D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Not to mention the fact that most spectators don't even know the laws of the game. :D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

the only arse kissing will be done by Benitez trying to save his job if Pool end up with nothing this season.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Well Cashy if you despise United then you ain't neutral are you!

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

We are Man Utd my son..and we ain't had our dinner!

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Like all people who continue to perpetuate this myth of refs tending to favour Man U at Old Trafford, you still cling to TV replays to prove the point. And of course you all conveniently forget that the ref does not have the benefit of replays and has to make his decision instantly on what he sees at the time. And that is the crux of the matter – what the ref sees. Not one single person in the stadium can tell you what the ref can see. The best that they can do is to tell you what they THINK the ref SHOULD HAVE SEEN and that is usually biased depending on which team you support.

You, on the terraces, might see the defender tug at the opposing player’s shirt but if the ref’s view is obscured by one of the players involved and he cannot see it, he cannot blow for a foul.

Refs will make mistakes because they are human and humans make mistakes. However the number of times that the refs make a mistake is far outweighed by the number of times they got it right.

Heck, there are times when the two TV pundits don’t agree after numerous replays, so what chance has the much maligned referee got?

The facts, as you call them, are not as the ref sees things but as the spectator sees things and those are totally different facts.

Clever as it is the GC replays are only of a snapshot in time. Even then it doesn’t show what the ref might have seen. To do that the camera would have to on the ref’s head. One day it may show the whole incident in real time from a different angle. But that day is not here yet.

By the way it isn’t just Man U who has the match analysed by the TV pundits. Every match that is televised has TV pundits spouting their piece.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

and so the future is Andy Gray sorting out the results? no thanks mate.. if it's a toss up I'll stick with the Refs.. bad or good.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

you nutters
YouTube - Song for the champions Man United

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

here's one for Benitez.. he's had five years..he's brain hurts alot :D
YouTube - David Bowie - Five Years Live 1972

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

I remember the words that Mark Hughes said in an interview, He said when you play for United you think all this moaning about refs is all sower grapes from the opposition supporters and management, its not until your with another team that you start to realise just how true those complaints are

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Give or quoting Jack Reagan Mancie:D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Yeah Jaysay..the closet scouser (edit) and Tory to boot ..now it can't get any worse.. oh yeah qouting stuff from the manager of Man City..behave!

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Referees are trained to be in the right place at the right time. Their decisions shouldn't be under debate because of a restricted view. Most of the time they are in the right position. This point about the referee's view and subsequent decisions being impossible to judge is unacceptable. There has been a multitude of mistakes made by the referee from a perfectly good position, which the TV camera can, and DOES pick up!

I spot a dead end there. I know... riddle me this...

How does a referee's assessor mark the performance of the man in black? He watches the game through... you guessed it... a TV monitor. If camera angles are so darn useless, and offer us no true perception of how right or wrong referees' individual decisions are, then why on earth do the FA use this method to keep on top of their employees on the field?

I must have been travelling intime the past few weekends, just about the time Match of the Day comes on. Just this weekend gone, a camera angle was manipulated in to a CG replay and the sequence was replayed through the angle of the linesman. It's clever, but simple, and only about as futuristic as Space 1999.

All of this is bordering on the academic.

I have not argued that referees are crooked. It is only my opinion that the refs buck under pressure of big games. God knows what goes on. But there is a trend at Old Trafford that sees Manchester United more likely to see decisions go their way. The hard facts of the amount of free kicks, penalties and cards given against United at Old Trafford create that trend. It is certainly not a myth.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Think your up against it Shakermaker - some people can't see the woods for the trees due to their own self beliefs and bias attitudes.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

[/quote]
How does a referee's assessor mark the performance of the man in black? He watches the game through... you guessed it... a TV monitor.
[/quote]

Maybe in the Premier league but I doubt it goes further down the pyramid than that

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Training a referee to be in the right place at the right time is no guarantee that he will be shakermaker. But who is to decide which is the right place? There are 22 other people on the pitch and any one could block his view at any time. Indeed I could argue that some players could be doing this deliberately. Then there is the long ball up field. Only Superman could keep up with that and refs are not superman.

“How does a referee's assessor mark the performance of the man in black? He watches the game through... you guessed it... a TV monitor.” Does he?

The TV cameras follow the action and the action is where the ball is. The cameras do not follow the referee so to rely purely on the TV to assess a ref’s performance is wrong. In fact the assessor will watch the match and turn to the TV if required. Next time that you watch a match on telly try and take note how often you see the referee in shot.

Some cameras do take a broader view for the purpose of analysis after the match and replays.

Professional referees do a difficult job to the best of their ability and to suggest that someone with over 10 years experience at the top will buckle from fan or player power, is casting a major slur on the ref.

On the very few occasions that I have seen the CG it has always been a snapshot in time and not a period of motion. And that makes it inconclusive.

The only bias here churchman phil is from those who continue to perpetrate the myth that Man U are favoured by the ref at Old Trafford.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Is it? After all, as you said, they're only human. With over fifty-thousand United fans calling for your blood, I don't suppose any amount of experience would help there.

For the record, I don't believe that the refs are crooked or biased. There is a trend of statistics that show how Manchester United are more likely to have a decision go in their favour when playing at home. My opinion on the reasons for that trend is that some refs are likely to buck under pressure from fans and/or big characters on and off the field.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

If you actually read my earlier post I stated top premiership sides - PLURAL. Ergo it is not a go at just Man U being favoured but a general observation. Shakermaker is strictly correct - the higher up the footballing ladder you go the more decisions are likely to go for you.
As a matter of recourse JB - are you or have you ever been a pro/am referee??

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Quite right too churchman, a prime example was Arsenals winning goal in their match with Hull City last night, it was an absolute joke, but you can bet anything you want if it had been at the other end it would have been chalked off:(

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

No doubt that there has been the odd ref who has been influenced by crowd and player behaviour but stating that there is a trend suggests that it is every ref and that is not the case. Except it is to those who dislike Man U on principle and because their mates dislike them. They will say anything to vent their wrath.
Now which is it? You are not biased or you are. Make your mind up.

If you are not biased how can you countenance the myth that Man U are more likely to get a decision in their favour when playing at home? Believing that is bias against Man U.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

So you admit that it is not just Man U who, it is claimed, get preferential treatment from a referee.

That is a major slur on the referees.

Yes! Amateur, donkey’s years ago.

Have you?

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Manchester United have had very few decisions go against them while playing at home, in comparison to every other Premier League team since the League's inception. The lack of penalties given against them being the largest statistical anomalie. These statistics (not opinions or views from supporters) make the probability of decisions going Manchester United's way being high. There is no myth.

Now, my opinion on that statistical trend links to the likelihood of referees to buck under pressure. There is no bias. I have nothing against Manchester United. I just have an opinion on a statistical trend.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Since the start of the Prem I can count numerous dodgy decisions being given against the Rovers when playing Man Unt., but none going our way, two this year to start with:(

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

I love Man Yoo in fact I love them so much I like to play them every week, this thread has become boring now.:D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

i wonder why?:rolleyes:

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Let me see if I have this right. You (and many others) a non-referee sitting in the stands or watching on TV reckon that a penalty should have been given when it wasn’t.

Don’t come quoting that you have seen a dozen replays because the real ref, who has spent years working his way up to the top, has only a split second to make a decision and in any case is much closer to the action than you are. And the chances are that your view was impeded by the guy in front jumping up or players in your line of site.

This is where this myth has started – it is all based on unqualified opinions of non-referees sat in the stands or watching from the comfort of their armchair and following each other around like sheep perpetuating the myth.

This equally mythical statistical anomaly is based on what the public sees and wants to believe. I would be interested to know where these statistics are published and by whom.

Then there is the very real possibility that the opposing teams, desperate to come away with something, will do anything to gain an advantage over the home team and these incidents are spotted by the referee and awarded accordingly.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Here are the amount of penalties awarded against teams in the Premiership, from the start of the 98/99 season to the start of the 08/09 season. I can't find earlier stats, but a ten year slice seems fair to me. The nine teams listed are the only ones to have been in the Premier League since the start of the 98/99 season.

1. Manchester United: 18 (8 home, 10 away) % at home: 44.4
2. Arsenal: 23 (8 home, 15 away) home %: 34.8
3. Chelsea: 29 (8 home, 21 away) home %: 27.6
4. Liverpool: 32 (11 home, 21 away) home %: 34.4
5. Middlesbrough: 37 (16 home, 21 away) home %: 43.2
6. Everton: 39 (16 home, 23 away) home %: 41
7. Newcastle: 44 (15 home, 29 away) home %: 34.1
8. Tottenham: 48 (18 home, 30 away) home %: 37.5
9. Aston Villa: 49 (16 home, 33 away) home %: 32.7

From that data, we can see that the statistical probability of a penalty being awarded against Manchester United, Arsenal or Chelsea is very low. That can't be disputed.
Indeed, we also see that Manchester United hold the highest percentage of penalties conceded at home. Personally I don't see the importance of that particular statistic when the overall amount of penalties over ten years is only eighteen.
I think the state of low probability is because the performance of referees, and you think it's because the best teams simply don't allow the opposition to get in their 18 yard box very often. A simple difference of opinion. I respect yours, but it seems that we're going around in circles.
Cheers for the discussion.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Your statistics are ignoring the fact that maybe there were only 18 incidents where a penalty could have been awarded.

To make those statistics meaningful we need to know how many penalty area incidents there had been and then we get into the realm of the spectators’ unqualified opinion.

I prefer to believe that a fully qualified and highly experienced referees will make the right decision regardless of what the crowd thinks and then perpetuates the myth that some Premier teams get favoured at home.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Rubbish!! It is just a statement that a referee's judgement WILL be affected by the crowd to some degree regardless of the man's integrity. It isn't a slur at all as that would imply referee's deliberately award decisions to the bigger team which I never said they did.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

I think in the main you are on the right tracks. Subconsciously there must be an influence from a larger crowd. Stick your self in the middle of a football pitch with one person shouting penalty, then shove 70,000 people round the side of the pitch shouting penalty and see which has the most influence :). It's an instant trigger in the human brain.

Referees don't cheat despite the protestations of many fans, but they do get things wrong, thankfully nowhere near as many as they get right :D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

They are human dave and as such will err. If anybody on here wants a ref who is perfect then they should stop watching the game.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

I used to be a Class One referee years ago, not sure some of the people I sent off would regard me as human, unless some of the words that were used actually translated in to meaning human :D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Human and Dingle dave:D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

You’re right it is rubbish. Your post that is.

I never said that YOU implied that refs deliberately favour the bigger team. But hey! Why spoil a good rant with accuracy.

However it is comforting to know that in your arrogance you can state unequivocally that a referee’s judgement WILL be affected by crowds. And your degree in psychology comes from where?

What your really mean is that you are judging the situation by your own standards and then assuming that a referee of many years standing will be like you. Bah! Humbug!

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Don't you mean human or dingle jaysay? The Killers have just had a recent hit with Human. Here's the chorus:

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Much obliged for the negative Karma Bagpuss and the comment that came with it.

Well I didn’t ask what was between your ears but you supplied the information.

Obviously your debating acumen is none existent so like a spoilt child you have to resort to sneaky ways to “get your own back”. You did but I signed my comment.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

You need to learn how to read a sentence JB. I said a referee's judgement will be affected to some degree.

Psychology doesn't come into it - being human does.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

And tonight's lottery numbers are..... :D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

You're welcome but I have to say I don't remember giving negative karma, I must have been legless like this afternoon when Rooney was shown the red card where you copying his behaviour when you took some karma off me?:tongueout

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

This has been bugging me as I know I didn't give you karma negative or good so why you chose to abuse me I can't understand, I will let you know that when I'm able you will be receiving a little present in your karma box from me.:rolleyes:

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

My understanding of the English language is quite adequate thank you.

You stated, “It is just a statement that a referee's judgement WILL be affected by the crowd to some degree regardless of the man's integrity.” Note the emphasis on WILL.

I will leave you to figure it out.:tongueout

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

It is quite simple. My points went down by 37 so whoever it was had a Rep Power of 74. You were the only person who at that time had a Rep Power of 74 and your award was made in response to my post #69 in this thread.

Of course it is not beyond the realms of probability that there is another forum member with a Rep Power of 74 but if there is that person has not contributed to this thread. And if it was another person and s/he was just browsing around, in all probability that person would have chosen a different post of mine.

Your “when I’m able” comment gives it away. It is a long while since you made me an award so you should be able to do so again right now but by your own admission you are unable to do so. The only thing stopping you is that you have made me an award recently and have to make 10 more awards before you can make me another ‘gift’. So maybe 10 people are going to get lucky just so you can prove your point. Then again having made your post today at 12:45 what stopped you from making me a gift after you made your post? Well you couldn’t could you because you made that award on the 19th at 21:16 and you haven’t made at least 10 other awards since then.

Finally your choice of comment of “You are now talking complete bollox” was your style.

So ergo it was you. And showing the same lack of moral fibre by not signing your award you are showing that same lack of moral fibre by trying to lie your way out of it.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

while you were arguing amongst yourselves children, United did the same thing again yesterday (not marking up, second to the ball, none of the usual sharpness, and got rooney and ronaldo frustrated again), losing to Fulham, man U should have scored plenty in thier second half attempt at redeeming themselves, but failed miserably, O am fairly confident though, that Sir Ferg will not allow it to progress into the next game.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Who do you think you are Sherlock Holmes?

Just look at the first line of your deduction, I will quote you "My points went down by 37 so whoever it was had a Rep Power of 74", I ONLY HAVE A REP POWER OF 74 POINTS BECAUSE YOU GAVE ME NEGATIVE KARMA, will you apologise now.

I can't use karma because it says I have given too much out in 24 hours but you are now on my hit list and I rarely do that.
Please remember the last time I gave you karma, it was because you had made a lot of enemies so I would presume you have another to your collection hense the deduction and the comment, now leave me alone.:mad:

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Bet his nose was really shinny yesterday watching the Scoucers:D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

The whisky nose was on full show, and the chewing gum was getting a hiding yes, lol

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Sherlock Holmes was a fictitious character. I am for real.

“I ONLY HAVE A REP POWER OF 74 POINTS BECAUSE YOU GAVE ME NEGATIVE KARMA, will you apologise now.”

My poor deluded member you are forgetting one thing.

When I made you the negative award my Rep Power was 61 meaning that you got –30. Your Re Power was at 74 at the time and my –30 reduced your points by 30 but did not affect your Rep Power because –30 was not enough to bring the total down below a multiple of 50 points. If you cannot follow that reasoning then try this.

Let us assume that your points totalled 1,545. Deduct 30 and that brings them down to 1,515. For your Re Power to have gone down the points total would need to be reduced below 1,500.

The only person who should be apologising is you for trying to wriggle out of your situation by lying about it.

However, if you can give me some negative Karma tomorrow then that allows you to wriggle off the hook. But you won’t be able to because you haven’t been able to make 10 awards since the time that you gave me the negative Karma. Currently it appears that we are limited to one award per day and only 5 days have passed and that can only mean the maximum that you could have awarded elsewhere is 5 lots. Ergo you cannot make me an award until after the 29th but only if you make an award to someone else each day until then.

If you do not make me a negative award by midnight tomorrow the 25th then the evidence against you is overwhelming, my case is proven conclusively and whatever reputation you had is flushed down the pan.

I look forward to receiving some negative karma tomorrow sometime or an admission that you have been lying by denying it was you.

I suppose that you are now going to take a hissy fit and when actually able to zap me with some more negative Karma.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

I signed on to accyweb tonight after a hard days work, too tired to even go to the footy and what am I met with but a torrent of abuse from a Sherlock Holmes wannabee. :confused:

I could go on but I will leave it to Jam Butty to explain what I did about 8.30pm tonight.:rolleyes::D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

I'm guessing you blew his theory of not being able to award negative karma out of the water :D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

I received a positive Karma award today at 2031 from Baggypuss. Did you intend it to be positive Karma or in your hurry to try and prove a point you made a mistake and forgot to click the negative radio button.

In order to do so you had to make 10 other awards between your last one to me on the 19th and today the 24th.

But I am limited to making one award per day, so how come Baggypuss could make 10 between the 19th and today (5 days) in order to zap me again? The only way you could do that is if you can make 2 awards per day like it used to be. Or has some sort of skulduggery gone on to enable you to make the award early?

Is there one rule for one and another rule for others? In fact I’ve just tried to make a Karma award only to get this message “You have given out too much Karma in the last 24 hours, try again later.” My last Karma award (a positive one) was made earlier today so I am still limited to one per 24 hours.

So I still stick to my assertion that it was you who made the negative award for the other reasons I have already stated.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Can i ask something ... what has karma got to do with football?

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

The thread is mostly about United & Liverpool so it's not about proper football anyway :D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

everyone as far as i'm aware is only allowed the same awards, i have never heard anything so ridiculous as to even suggest theres one rule fer some, have one of those hissy fits you accuse bagpuss of having n zap me again like ya did before you sad old man.

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Jambutty may be correct.. I only get one per day..but when the upgrade came on I got like three a day.. and now I can't even sling out one a day..the other day I tried to sling out some pos and got a knock back cos was told to much today when it was from the other day..then you end up forgeting who the ..gave you pos and try to sort out the other bod that negged.. it's all kaka ...it's strange anyway I reckon bods should not be giving out bad karma on a football fred.. come on lads it's only a game :D

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

Unless I am mistaken members are only allowed to give one lot of karma out per day(well green karma that is because I very rarely dole the red stuff out). Add to that the fact that we have to spread it around then we can't always award karma when we might like to. For goodness sake you have been away for quite a while and then you come back moaning about karma again, does it really affect your life?

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

everyone got that mancie, then it reverted to this.:)

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

I had problems giving Karma to one person and it told me I'd given him to much and had to spread it about before I could give him more, hadn't given this particular member karma for over six weeks:confused:

Re: Bet Bagpuss is legless this afternoon
 

JB will get to the bottom of it John. :):rolleyes: