Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 

Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 

Accrington Stanley assistant hits out at Cavanagh ban (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Makes a good read

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I am sorry to say, if Cav is guilty after appeal then he must leave the club and not be retained. However, if he can prove that the bets placed were not by him, then good luck to him and i for one will welcome him back. But, the message put out by our esteemed assistant manager is totally wrong! Have sympathy yes, but don't put it in the press, it sends out the wrong signals.

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i would hope he can prove it was not him, but think club management should have kept stumm, moral support privatly is one thing, putting in media another, agree wi outback.:rolleyes:

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Re: Sky news players charged bury game
 

Absolutely correct.

We still await the outcome of the club's internal enquiryinto this matter.

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If JB's comments are anything to go by,then I think we can all guess what the outcome will be!

Without meaning to upset anyone, I believe that the club should disassociate itself from the whole sorry affair without delay.

If, after appeal, the charges are dropped,then yes by all means rethink, but for now the club cannot afford any more negative publicity. :o

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exactly what concerns me, is how would any prospective sponsers (of which the club DO NEED) view these comments?:(

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"Cavanagh is understood to have paid £4,500 for a voice recognition test in an attempt to prove that his brother – not him – had placed the accumulator via telephone, which would not have broken any rules."

Why would he bother if he was guilty?

I'm glad Coley and Jimmy have come out and given their full support to Cav. He'll get my support until he hangs up his career on his own terms. Hopefully after many more games for Stanley.
With the things Cav has gone through while giving his all for Stanley over his career, he deserves every bit of loyalty from his bosses.

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ya can give support without talking to the media shaker, do ya still not "Get It"?:confused:

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I completely understand the point about publicity. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it, though.

Aiming for good Google Page Ranking in all quarters is a fool's errand for our club. The media will never be interested in showing our debt ridden, TV advert joke of a club in a positive light unless it's with on-the-field success. Even then they do it through gritted teeth. I think the public show of loyalty and support is more than deserved.

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good Google Page Ranking is no fools errand when yer seeking new sponsers IMHO.

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Because it would be a comparatively easy way to conceal his guilt. Guilty people try all kinds of tricks to conceal guilt.

I agree with ukcowboy. The club really should draw a line under the whole sorry episode. Furthermore, they should ban Jimmy Bell from making any further statements on ANY matter relating to Accrington Stanley. His record on public utterances is less than impressive.

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What about the other bets ?

He has been found guilty and sentenced. If his appeal is not successfull he will miss all of this season and he shouldn't be seen in a Stanley shirt again. If his appeal is successfull and he is subsequently found not guilty then I would welcome him back.

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I agree completely Jeff - the question is what happens until the appeal?
He cant play?

Jimbo T :horn8:blower

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New sponsors know that we have the affiliation to the betting saga and it will continue to follow the club around for quite a while, regardless of what the club do. It won't make a difference if the management publicly show some much deserved support and loyalty towards their true captain.

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Utter rubbish. You think Cav has thousands of pounds spare to waste on 'tricks'?

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We probaly won't know that for another fortnight even if he is able to play! The ever helpful FA didn't even let Coley know if he could select Cav on Saturday.

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Think ya should switch coarses to law shaker, ya sure good at Defending the Indefensible.:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

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As a matter of fact, I do think exactly that. But I would rather use the word "spend" than "waste".

Weighing up the odds, it's not a bad gamble. £4,500 to try to prove innocence; or risk a much heftier fine and loss of income if/when found guilty.

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I admire how objective you are able to remain on this issue, Revived Red. However I do think your opinion in the above post is utter nonsense.

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you aint objective if ya can't see revived reds point shaker, cos i sure can, i think its not very objective putting whats obviously a much loved player before the good of the club.:rolleyes:

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I didn't say I was being objective cashy. I'm most definitely not.

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and ya call revived reds post nonsense!

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maybe its the new investors maybe theyve said anybody connected to this saga will be gone .it maybe that colemans job is in jeopardy and they are fighting for their jobs.after all they brought the players who brought disrepute to the club and no person is bigger than the club..interesting times ahead..investors always want conditions before they invest..:rolleyes:

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Posted via Mobile Device. Get things into perspective cav knew what he was doing, he is a grown man, he took the risk to his career and now faces the consequences simple as that. The club was put in an awkward situation damned either way, thats where my sympathy goes. As for sponsors/investors im sure they will look past it, anyways bad publicity is good publicity, asfc is at least remembered lol

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Paying £4,500 for a voice recognition test could be either the action of an innocent man or a man afraid of the penalty of being found guilty; I don't think it's conclusive. However, this test was taken because the accumulator was placed over the phone ... that's the bit that concerns me about this saga.

To place a bet over the phone, you need to have an account with the bookie in your own name. That can either be:

• a credit account in which there are much tighter checks in place to make sure that it is you that is making the bet (i.e. password, etc.) rather than someone else betting with your money; or

• a debit account in which the details of the debit card (e.g. registered postcode) must correspond with the details on the account, again to make sure that only the account holder is making the bet.

These are much tighter regulations brought in via the 2005 Gambling Act to address the newer modes of gambling and to protect against under-age gambling, in particular.

So that leaves only two real possibilities: either it was Cav making the bet over the phone or someone very close to him who knew all the necessary account/card information. It has been suggested that it was Cav's brother who made the bet over the phone, hence the need for a voice recognition test.

So, Cav's brother can't be arsed to go to a high street bookie or get himself a telephone or internet account with a bookie and instead uses Cav's account (and possibly his debit card), while knowing that it would probably end his brother's football career if the bookie passed on the details of the bet to the Gambling Commission? Is his brother that naive?

Alternatively, Cav did place the bet over the phone, knowing that it was done with an account (and possibly his debit card) in his name, making it extremely difficult to refute. The alternative was to go to any high street bookie and place the bet anonymously via a coupon and it would be virtually impossible to trace the bet back to him. Is Cav that naive?

Is the 'brother' story plausible and Cav completely innocent? Not only would his brother have been unbelievably naive, but his couldn't have hidden it from Cav either. If the bet had won, the winnings would have been in Cav's account and the brother would have needed to tell him at some point that he was owed winnings that were in Cav's name; winnings that could end Cav's playing career. That would be an extremely difficult conservation to start, unless it had happened before (maybe with Cav's agreement, plus there are allegations there had been previous bets placed on League 2 matches) and that makes Cav complicit in this process.

At least one person in the Cav family has been incredulously naive and I'm not surprised that the Gambling Commission found the 'brother' argument difficult to accept.

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For my two penn'orth I can't believe Cav would go to the extremes of arranging and paying for the voice detector test if he knew he was guilty, he has said from the beginning that he is innocent and that it was his brother who placed the bet on the Bury game and I for one believe him, maybe it's cos I don't want to not believe him - I don't know.
I just think that if he had been guilty he would not have been so adamant about his innocence nor would he have returned to training with the club but would have done as Rocky did and stayed away when pre-season began.
I really hope he goes for his appeal and is vindicated but to be honest I don't think the FA want to be proved wrong on this and this could be the reason they took so long to bring the charges and hold the hearing.

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none of us really know, but come on what else would anyone say? also how many people get done fer out the first time they did it? i would think, not very many.

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What about the bet on the Dagenham game?

Cav was invited back to the club for training and Rocky wasn't even contacted. It's not as though Rocky 'stayed away' he just wasn't asked back.

The FA probably took so long to bring the charges because they wanted to gather all the evidence to make sure the players were guilty before naming names and risking prosecution for defamation of character.

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sentiment appears to cloud commonsense in some cases.:rolleyes:

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Jeff, regarding the bet on the Dagenham game, I know he shouldn't have done it and it was stupid but it was a bet for us to win which somehow doesn't matter so much to me as at least, although what he did was against the rules, he hasn't bet against his own club as the others did.
The Dagenham bet isn't mentioned in the FA statement, it just says he's been banned for the Bury one.
And yes Cashman, maybe sentimentality is clouding my judgement but that's the way I feel about the situation and I'm not going to apologise for it.

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YES IT WAS AGAINST THE RULES and if you break the rules then you get punished. You say it doesn't matter so much to you, well it bloody well should do.

Regulatory Commission Chairman Nicholas Stewart QC made the following statement:
“These were repeated deliberate breaches of The Football Association’s betting rules which are vital to maintain confidence in the integrity of the game. These are serious offences by a Club Captain and therefore must be punished by a substantial period of suspension of eight months together with a fine of £3,500.”
It doesn't say he has been banned for the Bury one it says 'These are serious offences' which mean there was more than one offence.

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Oh get off your flippin' high horse, I said it doesn't matter to me so much as a bet against the club would have done, not that it didn't matter to me at all - and anyway surely I decide what matters to me personally - not you or anyone else.
'These offences' could mean that as it was an accumalator bet, it meant that whoever placed it was betting on a few games at once - hence using the plural terminology.

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sorry to be pedantic Accymad but n accumaltor,like a yankee, treble, double, etc is classed as a single bet, with more than 1 item in it, keep searching................ The Truth Is Out There.:D

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I wonder if the Ultras spent Sunday huddled in a corner of a pub somewhere and penned a song for Cav along the same lines of the Williams song, loved it. He's guilty as charged for more than one offence and should take his punishment, the club should not be publicly backing him and personally I hope we never see him again.

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I agree 100%

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Why are you trying to justify what Cav has done? It's about time you believed that Cav is guilty, Cav is banned and, hopefully, we will not see Cav again.
You should have gone to FA Headquarters with Cav and defended him using some 'plural terminology'.

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Please do not try and tell me what I should or should not believe? Like it or not Jeff, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I, like yourself, am quite within my rights to state mine. I do not expect everyone (or even anyone) to necessarily agree with those opinions but I will stick by them if it's all the same to you.
Maybe I did go to FA headquarters with a big banner - who's to know :)

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Jeff for manager!
The players would know exactly where they stand with him in charge. Cuts out the crap and goes straight to the point every time.
I'd give him tons of karma if I knew how:D

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Hear, Hear. Can't say I reckon much of the new captain though.

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I agree I don't think Proctor is strong enough or to be honest good enough to be captain but what do I know.

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Agree with baggy should be Phil or Miles for me....although Proccy has the heart and has been with the club for a long time I'm not sure he has the authority (or ability) to inspire the team.....then again I'm not convinced that Cav had that either

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I agree. For me should have been Phil Edwards or even Darran Kempson.
Unfortunately we have got Proccy and his name will be the first on the team sheet.

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Disagee. Some people may see the Procter - Miles combination as a surprising choice but after the last few months the club needs stability so maybe its the 'safe'option. Whether Procter has the authority remains to be seen but I think he can be a good captain. Whilst his play don't set the world alight, he's well established at the club, keen and intelligent. Having said that I hope someone else takes the pens. I'm a great admirer of Edwards play but he doesn't seem to be a great 'talker' on the pitch whilst Kempson has only just returned and may need to 'find his feet' at the club (useful if you're a footballer!) :D. As for being first on the team sheet we are always told that Mullers has that privilage, aren't we?

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Sorry, you are quite right. Mullers first on team sheet then Proccy (Captain), then Miles (Vice Captain)

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For me I would have gone with Phil, he may not shout and scream, but sometimes a good player doing their job well week in week out is example enough to others around them.. History now though. As for Proccy and Milesy, maybe their positions were offered to them as part of their pay package??? Who knows?? :) As for first name on the sheet, will settle for 92nd min scorers' everytime :D:D

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none of us has any idea what kind of 'authority' Proccy has. I think it was last weeks' Observer where Coley said that Proccy was one of the most respected in the dressing room.

Coley knows better than us so Proccy will do for me.

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The captain ought to be someone who if not injured would be in the team every week on merit.

I think Proccy will make a good club captain, but what happens if and when he's form might suggest he shouldn't be in the side?

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Former Accrington Stanley skipper to wait on appeal Lancashire Telegraph - Accrington Stanley

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Don't need him now.

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All the best Cav :)

In my humble opinion we DO need him.

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I'm with Baggy on this, mud always sticks n this is not the time fer crap to be reaped up.

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With the embargo we have, its a moot point really...................however I think we are doing just fine ta! (sorry shaker)

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Decision has been delayed until September 30th !!!!!!