1 in 4 living off benefits - Page 11

Eric · 04-09-2007, 19:44

The working for benefits thing was tried unsuccessfully in Ontario; even conservative thinking people (I'm not talking about the lunatic fringe, but the average conservative) found the idea of forcing the unfortunate to work for the "peanuts" the govt gave them very distasteful, smacking of workhouses. I remember one cartoon in the local rag with the govt owned Wolfe Islander ferry being rowed by welfare recipients in chains. The devious and determined shirkers will always find a way not to work and still get support; it's the genuine poor claimants who will end up working for their pittance and not having time to look for real work. And how long would it be before the captains of industry offer to help out by providing "work" for the poor and paying them the equivalent of benefits? In other words, being able to circumvent the minimum wage laws.

There has to be more govt intervention ... no, govt intervention has to be creative and not punitive. Business wants to avoid govt control, and will go to any extent to avoid it. Moving well paid jobs overseas is one way they can do this. But the govt has powers, and these should be used not only against the poor, but also against the rich.

Eric · 04-09-2007, 19:48

I think I can sum my ideas up before I start to waffle some more.

1. The shirkers have to grow a backbone and get out and work.

2. Business needs to grow a heart (and a conscience).

3. Govt. needs to grow a pair.

churchfcrules · 04-09-2007, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

You do realise that housewifes were included in these figures as well don't you?

in a word no, if they are on benefits they are not a housewife are they, as far as i am aware there is no housewife benefit? or am i mistaken?

Eric · 04-09-2007, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by churchfcrules

in a word no, if they are on benefits they are not a housewife are they, as far as i am aware there is no housewife benefit? or am i mistaken?

Sure there is a benefit: you get a whole half hour a day to yourself, to do nothing.

Or maybe five minutes if the kids are off school.

WillowTheWhisp · 04-09-2007, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by churchfcrules

in a word no, if they are on benefits they are not a housewife are they, as far as i am aware there is no housewife benefit? or am i mistaken?

But the article in the paper actually states that housewives are included in that figure which makes a nonsense of the statistics.

churchfcrules · 04-09-2007, 20:03

ok i just read the article and did you read the comments below, the one i refer to is the one about austria and having the exact same policy as i was talking about

churchfcrules · 04-09-2007, 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

But the article in the paper actually states that housewives are included in that figure which makes a nonsense of the statistics.

and it still doesnt detract from the arguement that we all accept there are people on benefits who shouldnt be, wether it is 1 in 4 or 1 in 500, it doesnt make it right

churchfcrules · 04-09-2007, 20:07

there are three types of lies, lies ,damn lies and statistics- benjamin disrealli

BERNADETTE · 04-09-2007, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

But the article in the paper actually states that housewives are included in that figure which makes a nonsense of the statistics.

That is the problem with a debate like this, which has been going for a while people don't read all of the thread and then we get crossed wires. And I am not refering to you Willow we are on the same wavelength on this. Nor am I having a go at anybody else, all I suggest is that you know the facts before you join in. I try not to comment unless I have read everyones post then I'm not likely to put my foot in it!!!

Stanaccy · 04-09-2007, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by churchfcrules

ok i just read the article and did you read the comments below, the one i refer to is the one about austria and having the exact same policy as i was talking about

I believe Austria had an extremist right wing government until recently. Enough said.
Also I posted this earlier

What proof would you have to seek work?

Err I'm reading the paper, here it is.

Err I'm going to look round the agencies?

Err I'm going job centre.

In a lot of cases you have to just go round to see someone. Also if you are in "full time forced labour" (if I recall correctly it used to be called slavery) where will you be able to get the assistance from the advisers who help you.

Also a lot of people who are unemployed for some time have other problems so before they can start work these have to be solved (I know I have worked with them).

Wondering about an answer to this.

Stanaccy · 04-09-2007, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by churchfcrules

there are three types of lies, lies ,damn lies and statistics- benjamin disrealli

I agree with the sentiments but it was actually Mark Twain.

churchfcrules · 04-09-2007, 20:20

i dont think it has any relevance, that housewifes and students are included in the figures, the debate has moved on, and most people agree that there are people on benefits that shouldnt be, the question is are we as a society happy to accept this as inevitable, and any system will always be abused, or asses the system and swing the balance back in favour of the honest claimant, dont forget these people that claim falsley are not only stealing from us the tax payer, but they are stealing from the most vulnerable in society, these people mays as well steal the cancer drugs out of somebodys cabinet, or mug an old woman of her pension, or turn off a premature babys incubator, what they are doing amounts to the same, and the general concensus is that the majority of you are quite happy to let them get away with it, just in case a minority of genuine cases may find it more difficult, or it heaven forbid we actually send someone to get some exercise

churchfcrules · 04-09-2007, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanaccy

I agree with the sentiments but it was actually Mark Twain.

arguable point, it was never official accredited to either, but im just argumentative lol

churchfcrules · 04-09-2007, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanaccy

I believe Austria had an extremist right wing government until recently. Enough said.
Also I posted this earlier

What proof would you have to seek work?

Err I'm reading the paper, here it is.

Err I'm going to look round the agencies?

Err I'm going job centre.

In a lot of cases you have to just go round to see someone. Also if you are in "full time forced labour" (if I recall correctly it used to be called slavery) where will you be able to get the assistance from the advisers who help you.

Also a lot of people who are unemployed for some time have other problems so before they can start work these have to be solved (I know I have worked with them).

Wondering about an answer to this.

these things are all supposed to be in place now, for JSA

so MR A how long did it take you to read the paper, 3 days mmmmmm interesting.

so the agency/job centre/advisor you visited, did you log your attendance?

i feel you are just nit picking, of course there can be procedures introduced to check on peoples job seeking

and enough said why? so any politcal stance the varies from your own can be dismissed as poppycock?

churchfcrules · 04-09-2007, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanaccy

I agree with the sentiments but it was actually Mark Twain.

and to be a real smart arse i just googled it and it was actually mark twain quoting good ole benji
lol
but now im annoying myself lol